any advice? hitting clips

Overall, I like the swing.

The swing on the foul ball was better form, but the batter was late making contact.

The double looked to be a blooper since it hung in the frame so long. The best part of the swing was the front foot delay on the apparent off speed pitch.

Without the pitcher in the frame, it is hard to determine if the batter is coming to the full load position before the pitcher releases the ball.

There is usually not enough time to have the 'swing light' come on, load and then swing to make contact.

yea the foul ball was slightly late, but the double was actually a ground rule double to center, it wasn't a blooper and wasnt killed either but it carried over the center fielders head

I don't like the swing. A no stride spinner. Aluminum bat swing geared for one pitch only.

Major counter rotation of the upper body
( shoulders) Hips should counter rotate minus 28 degree ( average). Shoulders should move around the spinal axis maintaining two eye contact on the pitcher without counter rotating

. He is in a one piece move back with the hips and shoulder BOTH counter rotating.
Post him by several MLB players to see this

NOt the worse thing he could be doing but he doesn't load correctly.

1. doesn't coil the weight into the back hip right.

2. Doesn't carry the weight right

3. Doesn't get any synchrony in the upper and lower body load.

It is a spinning pattern with no segmentation .

He appears fit, strong, and well rehearsed. He probably does pretty well anyway.

Would take some time to change this is he has been doing it for years and years

swingbuster, what could be done to coil the weight correctly into the back hip? and how should the weight be carried?

here's the next day, another double not a HUGE differenc but its not just a spin with the front foot, there is a slight lift or stride, but dont know if its due to the pitch being off speed or what, also the hands dont seem to reach back quite as far

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OBO2GLNaC4

Spinning has nothing to do with the front foot. Think of it as revolving door, which is bad. Carry means to hit against the frontside, like a swinging gate.

beastball4,

How well you doin? My guess is real good! I'd like to see your swing from the open side. There's some good things you have going for you. IMO

I'm doin pretty good I suppose, here's my third game, which is another double.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmRzCeESFCk

I'm just trying to perfect my swing. I havent played in about a year cuz I had to take off due to some family problems and now Im back and trying to get back in the groove. I have video of me from the open side preparing for this summer season hitting with wood, my mechanics were pretty diff though, I would shift my weight back a lot and I had more forward momentum when hitting which helped me hit balls out easly with wood but left me looking stupid with off speed so I tried to stay back more and use my hips and Im just so lost, I dont know what approach I need, what I need to change, should I just try to perfect what im doin? idk another thing is my hands, most great hitters seem to have their hands right behind them or actually in sight when you look at thier swing from the front, such as pujols and bonds...my hands seem to extend around my head so you can see them on the other side of my head, like jeff francoeur does,wich I sometimes seem to over extend, but I dont have a long bar arm swing I can pull my hands back inside it just seems like wasted movent BUT...when I try to not extend so much I lose all my power it seems, Im just so lost and dont know what to do.

why are people describing him as a spinner? what is a 'spinner' ? his load reminds me of derek jeter's when he played high school, and jeff bianchi when i saw him at the world wood bat championships.

ok heres a couple of months before these last game videos were. there was a lot more movement with body and head which lead me to think something was wrong with the swing and thats why I wasnt hitting the off speed quite as good, but Im thinking it was just my timing off and I went and tried to fix things even though I was in a groove, not saying the mechanics were any better, but I felt good swinging, but I thought all the movent I had to load up would throw me off in the game so I tried to stay more "quiet" and not move so much....the third video is a front view were you can really see the hands "wrap" around the head like I said, all three were batting practice with wood but were homers. I also notice I was hitting more off of the front leg in these videos cuz my back leg actually lifts off the ground for a moment...which swings look better the in game swings or batting practice?

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v503/baseballa226/?ac...w¤t=HRBack.flv

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v503/baseballa226/?ac...w¤t=HROpen.flv

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v503/baseballa226/?ac...¤t=HRFront.flv

Spinner = hitting with the pole through the body from stance to finish. Like a revolving door.

He lacks a flexed front leg landing and he doesn't hit against his frontside at all. He counter rotates but instead should coil. He has no lower half swivel and gets caught with both feet flat on the ground at the same time.

I say if you're doing good then leave it be. If it isn't broken don't fix it. Unless of course it is broken and your not doing good.

heres a game shot with the pitcher in the scene so you can see the load and timing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SH2iudjiJU

heres two more doubles in the same game both with wood...the second double one hops the right centerfield fence....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imodF9GdUC4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N3RbM-lnAQ

He does take a heck of a cut. More effective through contact from the back view on the double.

He is very quick...with great hip action.

I think he could be an example of a guy that can make HIS STYLE work and I do not see many that I think that about. There is something special about him through the zone.

Slo mo would be better for the finer points but at impact he is top teer

if you'd like i can email any of the videos, i dont know how to put it slow mo on here, so if anyone wants any of the videos id be happy to email them, thanks.

ok so i lied, i figured out how to slow it down....hope this helps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCCpFJudFug

What a great swing, especially not having played for a year. Spinner or no spinner, who cares, he can really swing.

home run at ole miss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XStxFDOauQ4

slo mo clip of swing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tWFC7l70OU

I like this kid. There's always ways to adjust and improve, hit to all fields, but thats a nice overall approach.

The chemistry of the at bats that you have shown are as close to perfect as a person usually hopes for.

The load is timely. The pitch recognition is very good. The bat is delivered to the hitting zone on time. The follow through is there.

As odd as this may sound to you, using less power in your 'swing' and using more emphasis on form will give you smoother and better results.

In your next BP session on the field, try using just form to hit the ball. You should find that with what will seem like less effort will give you sharper line drives and more distance. Be sure to use the follow through.

I'd be happy to hear what results you had. And if you found that the ball is hit sharper.

quote:

Be sure to use the follow through.

Bad advice......

thanks willie i'll try that today, i have a double header later...and bluedog, did you say using the follow thru is bad advice because it is basically irrelevant since ive already hit the ball? if im wrong could you fill me in please?

In this type of 'swing', the follow through completes and maximizes the compression and expansion of the contact.

One sees this type of 'swing' only when a player seemingly waves the bat at the ball and hits a home run. Last time I saw it was in a Mets game where the left handed hitter waved the bat at a low outside pitch and watched the ball clear the left field fence. He shrugged his shoulders in surprise that the ball traveled so far with such little apparent effort. (The dreaded perfect swing.)

quote:

In this type of 'swing', the follow through completes and maximizes the compression and expansion of the contact

It does not......

Bluedog,

Would it hurt you to respond to the young man who asked for advice ?

Beast,

You look pretty darn good to me.

Some of the clips - IMO - have you a bit off balance and falling off to the right. Others dont. I would work hard on improving your balance.

I would also suggest you try to use your legs a bit more in your swing. Once you get wood in your hand - you are going to need your legs.

All in all - heck of a swing - and as always - work to do.

Good luck.

how should i use my legs more? what could i do? and i do feel i need to improve my balance, and willie i took your advice and tried to work on my form and make my swing smooth and i hit a lot more line drives in practice, other than being walked mostly i hit good in the games too....and bluedog, not trying to be a jerk at all but i would appretiate some feed back on your statements

thanks

oh and willie, as far as using the follow thru, was the follow thru i had for the homer a good one? is that what i should be aiming for?

The home run follow through got you good results.

As you probably felt in the smooth 'swing', the follow through is an almost unconscious finishing of the 'swing'.

Were the line drives hot with good distance?

Did you get any more distance on your long ball?

yea they seemed like they were goin a good distance, i put a few more out than normal and i felt a little quicker as well just by trying to stay smooth, i was smokin it to oppo field a little more easily as well, i have good bat speed but i think i try a little too hard to swing quick, i want to keep increasing my bat speed but i think i try to swing with more speed and less control most of the time

Swinging smooth will allow more control as you increase bat speed.

You will have a tendency to feel in control of the swing since you are feeling that it is taking less efort to generate distance and sharp contact.

Beast,

Swing looks great!! Thanks for all the vids. Wish you well.

Tim

Bluedog - Jump in here and add something constructive, or even complete. I am interested in hearing what you have to say.

quote:

Swinging smooth will allow more control as you increase bat speed.

There is no such thing as swinging smooth.....You can shave smooth, but, swinging smooth?...Nah.....

I had a coach like you once Blue. He would come busting into the dugout between innings and yell out to us, "Let me tell you something!!" Then nothing. Silence. I never figured out if he was just at a loss for words, or if he thought we could read his mind. Either way we were pretty bad. His words of wisdom, or lack there of, could not have helped. I'll leave this one alone now. You obviously know more about this subject than others so we will just have to try and decipher your secret code. For crying out loud, complete a sentence.

Beast,

Here is your homework. Take a look at Pujols.

We have clips here somewhere.

Watch his lower body - and the way he uses his legs.

Bluedog,

The kid has requested a critique - not a "play on words".

He cares about hitting - not shaving.
And please - dont start with the axe chopping the tree.

We want shots into the gap - and boomers over the wall - not kindling or a smooth chin. LOL

lol well said,

i look at pujols' swing all the time, its rediculous how amazing it is, its kinda hard for me to describe his swing, he def looks like he has powerful legs thru out his swing, although he doesnt take a big stride he seems to transfer more weight forward than i do, i take a very small stride, and because of my knee kicking back, wich is basically like a pre step where im getting my timing down and keeping my weight back, i dont see my weight goin forward like him, maybe im wrong idk....his balance is perfect too, he lands on a flexed front knee and it locks at contact, i basically do the same, but since im not transfering as much weight forward, or maybe because im not as low as him, my leg seems to start to lock a little earlier than his.....anything else you could add?

and bluedog, when i said anything else you can add, i was refering to more than a one line yoda like statement. im not luke skywalker....sorry

Pujols' style of batting is a lot different than your aproach.

You have good style and are getting good results.

I have to ask at what level you are playing and what pitch speed do you think you see in games.

If you are seeing high 80's and low 90's and making the contact that you are, just tweak.

If you are seeing high 70's to low 80's, you can consider making drastic changes such as the Pujols approach.

Pujols batting style may very well be the result of tweaking to get the bat to the zone in time to make contact.

The bottom line is always that the batter wants to get the bat in the zone to make the best contact possible.

The only suggestion I would have after all the fine advice you've gotten here, (from most) is the early straigtening of your front leg. That also can be adjusted to have more weight going forward.
When you stride, stride into the ball and instep of your front foot and let it naturally rotate open. When you hit the ball of your foot, your knee should remain firm but slightly bent or flexed. As you make contact, and you're opening up, you front side will take care of itself, just by what you're already doing in your swing.
Excuse me for not being as eloquent as Willie, but this will get a little more weight going forward for you and the impact will be greater.

yea im in legion ball right now, i'll be a senior in high school next year, so we're pretty much seeing upper 80's low 90's right now, and i have noticed i could use a little more weight going forward, i was so concered with staying back that in some of my earlier clips you can see i basically just spin, like everyone stated, cuz i had nothing going forward, so its something im gonna work on

A high level swing is all-out, balls to the wall........Ain't nothin smooth about it.....

In my view, for the level of play that you are at, you are ahead of most players in ability.

If possible, I'd appreciate some clips of you 'swinging smooth' to compare to the earlier clips.

The parks that you are playing in at this level should be about the same size as most MLB fields (300 and change down the lines and 400 to center). Since you are able to hit the walls and over the walls, your swing is producing adequate distance.

Let me know when you 'smooth swing' one out of the park the other way (right-center field).

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
A high level swing is all-out, balls to the wall........Ain't nothin smooth about it.....

What the **** does that mean? Really?

Just a bunch of mumbo jumbo nonsense. IMO.

I have been reading some of BlueDog's post and I have come to the conclusion that he has no idea what he's talking about.

nd,

Remember this - it is about Beast's request for feedback on his swing.

Despite his best attempts - by no means is it about Bluedog.

yea, i'll be sure to put some more clips up, we're off for 3 days, so i'll put some up when we start playing again, we played a college team today and killed them, the pitchers didnt seem too special and i didnt have any problems against them....and i cant talk bad about bluedog cuz i dont know him, but i wish he'd EXPLAIN his fortune cookie comments sometimes. and we play mostly home games in a field thats 330 down the lines and 400 in center, with a fairly big wall so we play in legit fields. but ive had the power to hit it out since my freshman year, i had 5 bombs on varsity.

Mechanics throughout history have invented tools to do the work or minimize the physical exertion of that work.

By swinging with form rather than power, you will be allowing the bat to do the work once you get it into the zone. You should find that home runs and doubles will come more often as well as distance to all fields.

quote:

By swinging with form rather than power

There is no such thing.....

quote:

Mechanics throughout history have invented tools to do the work or minimize the physical exertion of that work.

So, are you working on a motorized bat?????

Who wins this match? BOBO or BD?

Let's hope the winner is Beastball

ok, first game in like 4 days....i didnt get a chance to swing at much, so i have one of my hitting a shot to third, which may not look that hard, but its one of the hardest balls ive hit this summer, and the next clip is just me fouling a ball to the right side....i tried to use the legs a little bit more, but idk...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_JPeMDB2_w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4KH9kbqNX0

Going without the stride presents a problem.

It looks like you are dropping the bat head a bit.

Do you feel your hips drop with the no stride front foot roll approach?

Cutting out the stride may be better to hold off on until you will see faster pitching.

Not striding will eliminate a 'step' in the 'swing' getting the bat in the zone faster.

Remember to hit the ball where it is pitched.

Great swing! Your swing reminds me so much of David Wrights. Keep up the good work!

"Play hard and practice harder"

I don't have any problem at all with the no-stride.

Overall, looking good.

On the hit to 3B, do you remember if that pitch was outside?

Just keep working. Relax, have fun, stay confident.

The 'no stride' is a quicker swing, but why get used to using it on pitches that you can handle with the stride.

When you start seeing high 90's regular is when you want that quickness.

Keep something in the tank for when the competition gets better.

One slick trick that I like to use is sending a mid 70's pitcher to the mound after a guy throwing heat. Batters see the fastball motion and are coming out of their shoes as if it were a change up.

The no stride Beast, has nothing to do with a quicker swing. A quick swing happens from rotating properly without lowering the backside elbow. You can do that with either a stride or without a stride.

You have way to much counter rotation and you load your swing from the arms. All that movement backwards will cause problems with timing as the pitching continues to get better.

I do like your transfer to your front side. Just start with your hands back where you are counter rotating them to and just leave them there. Be carful with the external rotation, which is flying the front hip open by using the front leg to do so.

I also see the elbow not slotting properly. A proper slot is with the elbow not against the side or hip but with a gap between the two. The elbow should be behind the hands and not inside the hands. THIS IS WHERE A QUICK SWING COMES FROM. The proper rotation with the gap between the elbow and hip.

quote:

A proper slot is with the elbow not against the side or hip but with a gap between the two. The elbow should be behind the hands and not inside the hands.

You've got me puzzled here...elbow slotting properly near hip, although not brushing the hip, is still inside the hands in relation to the body unless i'm missing your point here. Would you be so kind as to explain further.

Thanks much.

quote:

elbow slotting properly near hip, although not brushing the hip, is still inside the hands in relation to the body unless i'm missing your point here

NY DAD, elbow slotting happens as a result od rotation. It doesn't happen before rotation. Take a stance now pull your elbow inside the hands and against your hip. Did you do it? Stand up and do it.

Thanks, ok now keep the elbow up and as you begin to lower the elbow start to turn the shoulders. Notice how the elbow stays behind the hands. Did you do it? Do it!

The slot of the elbow is a result of staying connected and rotating properly.

quote:

NY DAD, elbow slotting happens as a result of rotation. It doesn't happen before rotation.

Vance, I'm fully aware sir that slotting of the elbow occurs as result of proper connection/rotation and never implied it should happen before rotation. I simply questioned your statement:

the elbow should be behind the hands and not inside the hands

My point being the elbow is always inside the hands in relation to the body.

quote:

the elbow is always inside the hands in relation to the body

Then you would have improper rotation and not a quick swing. All great hitters have the elbow behind the hands at contact and they move the bat to contact by the rotation and with the elbow behind the hands.

MLB hitters do not slot their elbows.....

YES THEY DO SLOT THE ELBOW. What they don't do is TUCK the elbow.

They rotate to the ball.....Their elbow does what it does......No slotting.....

Vance, Your statement is a little confusing i.e. hands at contact and they move the bat to contact

The process of slotting the elbow would begin at time of launch and thru rotation wherein the elbow is inside the hands which believe was the original discussion. As far as position at point of contact, depending on pitch location i.e. middle/in, the elbow will even out in working more behind the hands.

ok NY DAD. Your on the page.

BLUEDOG, the elbow behind the hands and bent is a slotted elbow and it is slotted by the rotation. Tucking the elbow into the body is not slotting, ITS TUCKING, and not what ML hitters do. But Watch Vladdy's HR off Penny in the ALL Star game. That was a properly slotted elbow. It wasn't tucked into the body!

What I am saying is, the back elbow in a high level swing is a non-issue......

Now, if you try to manipulate what the back elbow does, you will make it an issue.....And, not a good issue, at all....

What I'm saying is that it is an issue for young players who are not in pro ball or the ML's. Most do it wrong and need to be shown how it is done properly!

quote:

Vladdy's HR off Penny in the ALL Star game. That was a properly slotted elbow. It wasn't tucked into the body!

Vance is absolutely correct about the elbow slotting properly in that swing even though it was a little late against 98MPH FB and VLADDY barely caught up with it Bet if Penny would have thrown a 85 MPH CH before that 98MPH FB VLADDY would not have caught up with it peace, Shep

Point being slotting of the back elbow is a
byproduct of staying connected thru rotation, not a deliberate action i.e. tucking first.

yes NY DAD. But what I see all the time is kids tucking the elbow because all they here is stay inside the ball. NOW thats the NON TEACH. Saying stay inside the ball!

Later fellas! GCL awaits me in early AM with evening FL STATE LEAGUE DH to boot! Long day manana hombres y mujers. Hasta manana! Buen Suerte and el christo es primero en el mundo en Shep's casa. No diablo vida en la casa de Shep.
Hasta Luego and GOOD LUCK to all. Peace, Shep

I have a Master's too :>

Vance, agreed it's a non-teach and when consciously tucking the back elbow it becomes an issue which was BD's point.

quote:

Originally posted by NYdad:
Point being slotting of the back elbow is a
byproduct of staying connected thru rotation, not a deliberate action i.e. tucking first.

I agree it's not deliberate and is an effect of other things. Wouldn't one of those things be POSTURE? I'm pretty sure I can slot my back elbow during a swing in which I totally let my hands take over (and push to the ball), i.e. disconnect???

Perhaps it's a combo of proper posture AND connection, but I would think that the posture is a bit more important in this context (automatic/subconscious elbow slotting).

My 2 cents.

Sandman,

Posture (spine angle) establishes swing path/trajectory based on the hitters pre-deterimed point of contact....letting your hands take over and pushing to the ball as you say is disconnecting but not necessarily related to posture...we are talking about a high-level swing and how your elbow will slot naturally...if your pushing to the ball, what your back elbow is doing becomes moot as you have bigger problems

Sandman...yes you are the man. You have it! Thanks

How the back elbow works is more a result of staying connected, not necessarily posture (spine angle). If you push to the ball as Sandman suggested your back elbow is not working properly regardless of posture. Swing a bat...and while swinging... maintain your your posture (spine angle) but disconnect and push your hands to the ball and see if your elbow is working properly...I think not despite maintaining your posture (spine angle)... therefore how is posture more important than staying connected to how the back elbow works?

Wouldn't pushing the hands be a result of poor posture if you did that?

quote:

I'm pretty sure I can slot my back elbow during a swing in which I totally let my hands take over (and push to the ball), i.e. disconnect???

I think that slotting the elbow is ALL because of posture. Posture is not just spine angle.

Exactly, sb. I'm suggesting that if you have the proper posture, you won't NEED to disconnect. True, you might still, but you shouldn't need to. And if you don't, your elbow will slot fine all by itself when you turn your shoulders.

quote:

Wouldn't pushing the hands be a result of poor posture if you did that?

Pushing the hands would be disconnecting in which case the back elbow wouldn't be slotting naturally...I see posture and swing plane as separate components of the swing i.e. posture (spine angle) sets the swing plane with lead arm perpendicular to point of intended contact...staying connected is holding that swing plane.

You know, there is never a lot of agreement on this board, but there are some good things offered. I love the analytical breakdown and discussions about the swing... our high school coach was taught the linear approach back in the sixties and seventies and everything else is wrong, too complicated or ineffective.

Most High School coaches are ill-informed as to how MLB hitters swing a bat......

Posture - positioning the body to properly/efficiently set the swing plane and load the hips/shoulders. One indicator is that the bat path is perpendicular to the spine (or parallel to the shoulders) during the swing.

Connection - connecting the bat to the rotating torso rather than allowing the hands/arms to work independently of the power source. One way to recognize good connection is to see if the hitter "maintains the box" - that is, the basic shape of the forearms, upper front arm, and shoulders remains very close to the same throughout the initial phases of the swing.

Rotation - unloading those loaded core muscles to turn body. PCR rotation includes transferring the weight to a firm front foot - there is no "squishing the bug".

There is an expression that is often used, "The Next Level".

I have noticed that a player should be at the top of the level of the existing competition at each level. This is one of the main reasons why playing in top notch tournaments against the best competition will expose the higher level talent.

Concerning Beast's swing, he exhibits good contact with his stride swing getting good results. Using the No Stride in his swing would be eliminating one facet of his bat delivery, quickening his speed of bat delivery into the zone of contact.

While it may be a good swing at a higher level of play against faster pitching, I think it will cause him to over swing at the high school level. If he intentionally slows the no stride swing for better contact at the high school level, he may lose the ability to once again quicken his swing at the next level.

No sense in bringing a Howitzer to a turkey shoot and no reason to peak before reaching the highest level.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

Vance,

You have me a bit puzzled...

Sandman wrote:
Perhaps it's a combo of proper posture AND connection, but I would think that the posture is a bit more important in this context (automatic/subconscious elbow slotting).

I wrote:
Posture (spine angle) establishes swing path/trajectory based on the hitters pre-deterimed point of contact....letting your hands take over and pushing to the ball as you say is disconnecting but not necessarily related to posture...

You wrote:
Sandman...yes you are the man. You have it! Thanks

Your response to Sandman would indicate you agree that the elbow slotting properly is more related to posture then staying connected.

You then wrote:
Posture - positioning the body to properly/efficiently set the swing plane and load the hips/shoulders. One indicator is that the bat path is perpendicular to the spine (or parallel to the shoulders) during the swing.

Connection - connecting the bat to the rotating torso rather than allowing the hands/arms to work independently of the power source. One way to recognize good connection is to see if the hitter "maintains the box" - that is, the basic shape of the forearms, upper front arm, and shoulders remains very close to the same throughout the initial phases of the swing.

Your own definition of posture and connection would indicate the back elbow slotting/working properly is more related to connection (maintaining the box) then posture as I had stated and wondering if you still feel it has more to do with posture. Please clarify. Thanks.