Any Math or Physics Teachers on Forums?

Catching Coach,

First of all, if I ever had the knowledge, it's long since been replaced in my memory banks (most likely by something completely trivial). But I'm curious about what you need the information for.

Thanks,

Mike F

Curious so I googled the velocity of a baseball and found a site by Dr. Mike Marshall and I think that there is no such thing as an easy formula to determine the time it takes a baseball to travel 130 feet. Google Mike Marshall and Adult pitching.

Posed the question to my son whose last Calculus book contained page numbers and all of the rest of the book (600 pages) was filled with lines and graphs and formulas without numbers.

I'll see if he knows anything.

This is a speed, distance, time problem

rule of thumb always work in the values you're trying to find. In this case seconds, so you need to convert he distances to seconds.

Here's a calculator that will give you your answers, just plug in the right numbers

Here's the Algebra Website with the formulas needed to do the algebraic representation of distance.

The simple formula for distance time and speed is http://www.purplemath.com/modules/distance.htm

http://www.machinehead-software.co.uk/bike/speed_distance_time_calc.html

It is easy to do but sadly my mesure arent the same as yours... I use meters and seconds km/h in my calculs. But there are some equation that can maybe help you. It is 11h30 so I'm tired and I dont want to transfer all the mesures but maybe tomorow after a good rest I will!!!

final speed = initial speed + (acceleration * time)

final speed^2 = initial speed^2 + (2 * acceleration * distance)

and the other one I dont really remember

final speed = initial speed + (acceleration * time) = (2 * acceleration * time / 2 )

BUT all of my formulas are ... speed : meter/second , acceleration : meter/second^2 , time : second and distance : meter

hope it help

Franck

Hey Ramrod there is no acceleration in your machine so it wont work because the ball loss velocity every ten feet so there is an acceleration ( a negative one )

Good luck Catcher coach!

and try the formula if you have the time!

Forget,,,

It is a physic problem... not mathematical

quote:

Originally posted by Mike F:
Catching Coach,

But I'm curious about what you need the information for.

Thanks,

Mike F

Mike,

I have done a great amount of study on the time it takes catcher to get the ball in the air when making the throw to 2nd. I devised a drill a number of years ago that has enabled me to evaluate both major components of the throw to 2nd. The release and inflight MPH, and the actual relase time from glove to release. The drill was featured on the Jugs Website last year. See the link below.

Timing Release

What I want to be able to do is determine what a catchers likely POP time will be down to 2nd by just timing his release and his MPH at release. This information will be valuable here in New England where it is impossible during the winter months to get a chance to throw to 2nd indoors. If I have the MPH at release point, and the actual elapsed time of the release itself, the formula will tell me the actual time the ball will take to get to 2nd. This will allow me to chart a players training progress during the winter and be able to give the player a realistic expectation of what his actual time will be once he gets outside.

I'm not a math teacher, but I'm pretty good at figgering stuff out. I think you can pretty closely approximate the time it would take the ball to l30 feet given your parameters. I'll bet the approximization is pretty darn close.

Here's the formula:

Since T=D/V (time to travel equals the distance divided by the velocity), all we have to do is figure out the average velocity of the ball over the 130 feet.

By your formula, since the ball slows down by 1 MPH each ten feet, the average velocity in MPH would be the initial velocity minus half of the following: the distance (130 feet) divided by 10 (since the ball slows down one MPH each ten feet).

In formula terms: V(ave) = V(init.) - (D/10)/2

So, if we first compute average velocity in MPH and then convert it to feet per second.

V = 75 - ((130/10)/2))

Which equals 68.5 MPH average velocity.

68.5 ave velocity is almost exactly 100 feet per second (100.466 to be exact, which is 68.5 times 5280 divided by 3600)

So the time equals:

T = 130/100.466

or, just under 1.3 seconds

In terms of pop time, with a release of .7 or better, an arm strength of 75MPH would give us the sub 2.0 pop. Which makes sense.

Rob,

I have done the math the way you suggested myself with the same results. My braincramp came wondering if instead of using average speed over the 130 feet I actually had the deceleration of the ball actually plugged in, whether the results would vary much or not.

The math shows clearly to me though that you don't need to be 80mph plus to throw at or under 2.0.

Coach:

My brother has a Ph.D in physics from Cal Tech.
I'll run this question by him.

My guess is that using a differential calculus approach to the question that takes into account the deceleration will give a more accurate result, but that it will be close enough to what both you and I arrived at to make it not worth the effort.

I'll let you know. He does this kind of stuff while brushing his teeth.

It's a pretty interesting question.

quote:

Release (initial) velocity is 75mph
The ball’s velocity drops 1 mph for every 10 feet it travels.
Need answer in seconds to 2 decimal places.

Coach,
If the catcher's velocity is 75 MPH you don't need a formula to determine pop time, you need a program to build up his arm strength.
Fungo

I only know "Legal Math", and after you learn to divide by three, you're done.


H-1

This reminds of the scene in Little Big League where the players try to help the kid with his homework.

at the end of the day does it really matter

I am with Fungo

Dusting the cobwebs out, I have the average MPH for a release at 75 decellerating 1 MPH every 10 feet on a 130 foot throw to average a flat 69 MPH, creating a travel time of 1.31 seconds.

Isn't 75 MPH actually a pretty decent initial velocity from the catcher's position? I've looked at a lot of PG player profiles for catchers and even the higher rated prospects are clocked in the mid 70's. Very few touch 80.

Is that because the radar gun measures ball speed in mid flight after it has slowed down, and therefore is not giving initial velocity?

Interesting to note that the difference between a 75 and 80 MPH throw in terms of time to travel is .085 of a second. I'm guessing that release time is a variable that is a lot easier to decrease by that amount.

Is that correct Catching Coach?

Rob,

Your observation is the heart of my reasoning for wanting to understand the math.

Here is why this information is so important to me.


I received a call from a parent of a Soph D-1 catcher in June. He had just finished his season and had shared the catching duties with another sophomore. During his end of season interview with his coach he was told that for this coming season he would need to make an improvement in his POP if he wanted to secure the starting role. He had been throwing game situation throws 2.05-2.10. The young man asked the coach for help in understanding what part of his throw needed the most work. The coach was clear that the player’s footwork and mechanics were just fine so his main area to improve was his arm strength. The young man left school figuring he had a summer of long toss ahead of him.

Understanding this math tells me he was going to have to try and add 7-9 MPH to get into the mid 1.9’s

When I spoke to the father he indicted that he questioned the coach’s evaluation of the problem area since his son had always been told he had great velocity. He then indicated to me he had 80+ velocity out of his crouch. While I still would need to confirm that MPH myself, I was sure from my understanding of the math involved in this post that this young man had to have a very slow release if he was throwing 80+ and was not going below 2.05-2.10

When the player and his dad came to be evaluated I was able to confirm that his MPH was indeed 80-81 at release from his crouch. I was also able to just visually confirm, forget the stopwatch, that he had the smoothest SLOW release I had seen in a player of his caliber. His ave release was between .89-.96 of a second. He had all kinds of things in his footwork and ball exchange that were eating time. Eating time smoothly, but eating time never the less.

We made some changes in his footwork and exchange mechanics and by the end of the weekend his release was under .80 seconds. His POP was under 1.95 in a training environment. The father has kept touch over the summer and fall and the player has had game situation throws now in the low 1.9 range.


TRhit : This story illustrates why it matters to me. As coaches we need to understand the physics completely to be sure we don’t misdiagnose a problem with a player and send him off working on areas that may not be the heart of the problem.


Fungo: 75mph right out of the crouch at release is very good velocity. I have timed nearly 100 College catchers in the past year in game situations and have found less then 20% throw 80+ from their crouch. I too would love to see a listing from the PG folks about what they see regularly across the country.

I still can't believe that 75mph velocity on the throw down to 2B for a college catcher is "very good"... but since you’ve gunned lots of college catchers and I’ve never gunned any, I’ll quietly fade into the background and just observe.
Fungo