Anyone Else Ever Had a Kid Train Tirelessly, but Show No Results?

I’m guessing based on where you live and the time of year he’s not in mid season form. Obviously he wants to be the best high school player he can be. But, in terms of the next level he has plenty of time before the summer.

If it turns out the numbers don’t change you don’t put your head down. You adjust. You look at the numbers, where they fit in college ball and attack the target.

Good luck.

What was his size/weight before and after the months of lifting?

5'10" to 5'11"

165 or so to 180 lbs. now

First, having the desire to work to get better is an awesome trait and will help with everything. From your description, sounds like maybe he's doing too much? At 17, is he looking to play in college? Is he looking to be a pitcher or position player? May want to start more targeted training and measuring the metrics more frequently so you have an idea if they are working.

I will say if your son is new to strength training, even the worst programs help (as long as you don't get injured). It's like a cheat code.

My son had trouble getting his 60 time below 7.  He worked for months with a speed and agility guy, was lifting and doing other training, we read all kinds of advice, the number didn't budge.  Summer after junior year, he started running every day, we videoed him, looked at every piece of his body we could think of, compared him to people running fast 60s on youtube, counted the number of strides, watched videos of famous sprinters, etc.  After about 2 months, something happened - either his body changed, or some piece of technique clicked in his head, or both, and he dropped .3+ seconds.  It didn't happen in the timeframe he wanted, but it did happen.   He learned a lot about how to study technique and apply it.  What I'm saying is, your son may be at a physical limit for now but at some point will make a jump, or he may need some other piece of mechanics in his brain.

When my son was about that age we used to frequently measure 60 time, exit velo and OF velo.  The gains were hard to predict and the measurements could vary wildly from week to week.  I would not put a huge amount of stock into one day's measurement, especially if you were testing all of these things on the same day.  You could also check in with the pitching coach and speed coach for feedback.

1" taller & +15lbs in 3 months does not seem insignificant to me!   I would bet the measurables will soon follow

Small sample size.  Keep working and test more regularly.  He could have also been “muscling up” his attempts to post numbers and not being fluid and athletic.  

Your focus is on the wrong things. Instead of worrying about 60 time work on  being more explosive. Become a better base runner. Instead of worrying about exit velo learn how to hit the outside pitch to the opposite field. Understand situational hitting. Become a better hitter. Instead of worrying about throwing velo work on improving release, accuracy, and knowing where to throw the ball. Become a better fielder. Become a better player and the improvement in metrics will take care of itself. So many  people have the cart in front of the horse.

My 2021 son had a similar experience.  Kids develop in different ways.  From Soph year to Junior year he trained a ton, and 60 time stayed at 7.8

6 months later he just ran a 7.5 ... he still looks like a teenager.  Once he fills out more into a man sized body the 60 time will go down

Adbono

Can the young man read the bat, read the ball, read the field, the umpire, opposing pitcher, the air, the wind. What  are the  “metrics “ for the student of the game.

Bob

@Consultant posted:

Adbono

Can the young man read the bat, read the ball, read the field, the umpire, opposing pitcher, the air, the wind. What  are the  “metrics “ for the student of the game.

Bob

Yes, sir! All the things you mentioned can’t be measured but those things determine if a kid is a good player more than 60 time, exit velo & throwing velo. When I see a kid with good speed I watch to see if he can use it to impact the game. Does he put pressure on the defense? Does he look for the opportunity to take the extra base and do it whenever he can?  As a baserunner or a fielder, can he read the ball off the bat? Most guys that work for PG, PBR, etc. running showcases can’t determine any of those things - so they focus on measuring metrics because that’s something they can do. Then they promote to the consumer that METRICS are THE most important thing and public buys in.

@Consultant posted:

Adbono

Can the young man read the bat, read the ball, read the field, the umpire, opposing pitcher, the air, the wind. What  are the  “metrics “ for the student of the game.

Bob

In my experience in the modern day, none of those things means anything in terms of where a kid gets recruited or whether a kid gets recruited.  You absolutely must check off certain measureable criteria to even get looked at.

A sad, but true aspect of modern day Baseball.

@3and2Fastball posted:

In my experience in the modern day, none of those things means anything in terms of where a kid gets recruited or whether a kid gets recruited.  You absolutely must check off certain measureable criteria to even get looked at.

A sad, but true aspect of modern day Baseball.

My experience is modern day and I help with recruiting at the school where I am a Volunteer Asst Coach. In the process of doing that I interact with RCs from all walks of baseball life - D1, D2, D3, JuCo & NAIA. Some young RCs that don’t have much experience recruiting look more at metrics. The more experienced coaches absolutely look for the things Bob talked about. Their focus is on how productive a prospect is in game situations. Not what his exit velo is at a showcase. Coaches that are good at evaluating talent (and many are not) look for intangibles and things that can’t be measured. Coaches that can’t evaluate talent use metrics as a crutch. Believe what you want but Bob is right

Adbono and 3 and 2;

During the 17 years of the AC games and tryouts, I initiated many conversations with College Coaches and Pro Scouts. With a Post Grad in Social Psychology, I applied that education to my interviews.

One veteran scout remarked, when I ask "what do you look for in a player"?

Bob, he said "I am projecting this pitcher in the World Series, 9 inning and bases loaded, score tied and 55,000 people at the game".

The same could be applied to a hitter or fielder. How a player reacts under pressure. College Coaches have the opportunity to coordinate with the Assistant Coaches on "evaluation" and observation principles.

As I have previously mentioned watch the player enter the field, watch his eyes, his posture, his interaction with teammates, parents, girl friend. Is the cell phone off?

Coaches will project the player on his team in a JC, Division 1, 2 ,3 or NAIA. tournament.

Bob

Also progress is not always linear. I had a kid really stagnating despite throwing a ton of stuff at him. After some rest he hit some big PRs.

Maybe he is just a bit over trained and needs a week of rest.

Also numbers are not evetything, there are other ways to improve too. Maybe he is more consistent or makes solid contact more often even if peak EV doesn't change.

If he is doing the right stuff the work should pay off long term.

The mental side of the game is what separates the great players from all the others and there isn’t enough emphasis on teaching it at the HS level and below. MLB scouts are looking for more than just physical tools and so are top 50 D1 programs.

I 100% agree that all those non-measurable mental things matter.  However, I think that there are many kids who have BOTH.  So you can't just say "but he can really play," because there are plenty of kids who can really play, some with better measurable numbers than others.  Personally, I wish I had understood the meaning of the measurables earlier.

@adbono posted:

My experience is modern day and I help with recruiting at the school where I am a Volunteer Asst Coach. In the process of doing that I interact with RCs from all walks of baseball life - D1, D2, D3, JuCo & NAIA. Some young RCs that don’t have much experience recruiting look more at metrics. The more experienced coaches absolutely look for the things Bob talked about. Their focus is on how productive a prospect is in game situations. Not what his exit velo is at a showcase. Coaches that are good at evaluating talent (and many are not) look for intangibles and things that can’t be measured. Coaches that can’t evaluate talent use metrics as a crutch. Believe what you want but Bob is right

I get it.  But you have to have certain measureables to even get looked at.

D1 coaches aren’t looking at kids who run 7.9 60’s even if their instincts are like Willie Mays and they are clutch hitters like George Brett.  Nobody is paying any attention to the kid who throws 70 across the infield etc