Appeal

If I understand your question the answer is: Batter-runner safe at first, runner on third scores if he touched home plate. Assuming plate umpire is in correct position, in most situations he would have had to see the runner on third touch home plate before seeing the play at first. At any rate, it is assumed that the plate umpire is the "umpire in chief" if not specified otherwise, and he has final 'juristiction' over any call. Technically
he does not even need to be consulted to change a ruling. Not usually a good practice, but them's the rules.In no case should the runner be sent back to third if everyone is doing their job - The only case I could see this happening is if time was called before the runner at third scored, in which case the umps screwed up and called time when the ball technically was still in play and should have remained a live ball.

Thanks Texas USA, I knew i wasn't nuts. I took for granted the quality of umpiring while I coached and played in your neck of the woods. It's too bad the kids had to tkae this one on the chin.
Aloha!

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Originally posted by jwonbb:
If I understand your question the answer is: Batter-runner safe at first, runner on third scores if he touched home plate. Assuming plate umpire is in correct position, in most situations he would have had to see the runner on third touch home plate before seeing the play at first. At any rate, it is assumed that the plate umpire is the "umpire in chief" if not specified otherwise, and he has final 'juristiction' over any call. Technically
he does not even need to be consulted to change a ruling. Not usually a good practice, but them's the rules.In no case should the runner be sent back to third if everyone is doing their job - The only case I could see this happening is if time was called before the runner at third scored, in which case the umps screwed up and called time when the ball technically was still in play and should have remained a live ball.

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Them's NOT the rule. By what rule book do make this asinine statement? No umpire, PU or not, may overrule another umpire's decision. He has no authority to do so on his own. The umpire making the initial decision may consult with his partner(s), but the FINAL decision is his.

If you're not a trained, qualified umpire, don't give out rulings.

If the BU decides that the PU had a better view, and agrees that there was no tag on the BR, the BR is safe at 1B, and the run scores. There is no rule that would allow the runner to be sent back to third.

BLUEZEBRA: Maybe I should question YOUR qualifications. And maybe you had better do a little research. The UMPIRE IN CHIEF always has final say on any call - period. Try checking out both the rule book and the bluebook. Maybe the research will do you some good.

Here's what I've put together:

SITUATION:
In the top of the 6th inning, with two outs and a runner on third base, a groundball was batted to an infielder by the visiting team. On the batted ball, the runner on third base broke for home plate, attempting to score.

The home team’s infielder’s throw drew the first baseman off of the bag. The first baseman attempted a tag of the batter runner. The base umpire called him out.

During the play, while the ball was considered to be “live”, the base runner, who occupied third base, advanced and crossed home plate.

The visiting team’s head coach approached the base umpire and requested that he consult with the plate umpire as it appeared from the visiting coaches’ perspective that the tag was not applied.

The plate umpire consulted with the plate umpire and the plate umpire announced the batter/runner safe yet ordered that the runner on third base return to third, nullifying the tying run.

The chief umpire informed the visitor's head coach that he would consider a protest, if filed within 24 hours. The visitor's head coach said "I will" and proceeded to research the correct ruling.

PROTEST:
If the batter runner was declared safe, then it is protested that the run should count, therefore tying the score, affecting the remainder of the game.

The base umpire decided that the plate umpire had a better view, and agreed that there was no tag on the batter/runner. The batter/runner is safe at first base, and the run scores.

There is no rule that would allow the runner to be sent back to third.

quote:

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Originally posted by jwonbb:
BLUEZEBRA: Maybe I should question YOUR qualifications. And maybe you had better do a little research. The UMPIRE IN CHIEF always has final say on any call - period. Try checking out both the rule book and the bluebook. Maybe the research will do you some good.

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44 years as an umpire. worked with every rule book from Little League thru OBR. What are your umpiring qualifications?

I challenge you to quote the rule that says the Umpire in Chief has the authority to overrule an other umpire. And what "bluebook" are you referring to?

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Originally posted by tako:
Here's what I've put together:

SITUATION:
In the top of the 6th inning, with two outs and a runner on third base, a groundball was batted to an infielder by the visiting team. On the batted ball, the runner on third base broke for home plate, attempting to score.

The home team’s infielder’s throw drew the first baseman off of the bag. The first baseman attempted a tag of the batter runner. The base umpire called him out.

During the play, while the ball was considered to be “live”, the base runner, who occupied third base, advanced and crossed home plate.

The visiting team’s head coach approached the base umpire and requested that he consult with the plate umpire as it appeared from the visiting coaches’ perspective that the tag was not applied.

The plate umpire consulted with the plate umpire and the plate umpire announced the batter/runner safe yet ordered that the runner on third base return to third, nullifying the tying run.

**That's different than stating the PU overruled the BU.

The chief umpire informed the visitor's head coach that he would consider a protest, if filed within 24 hours. The visitor's head coach said "I will" and proceeded to research the correct ruling.

**The umpires do not consider a protest. That's up to a protest committee, or a league administrator.

PROTEST:
If the batter runner was declared safe, then it is protested that the run should count, therefore tying the score, affecting the remainder of the game.

The base umpire decided that the plate umpire had a better view, and agreed that there was no tag on the batter/runner. The batter/runner is safe at first base, and the run scores.

There is no rule that would allow the runner to be sent back to third.

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I agree totally with bluezebra and will quote the rule in regard to the NFHS organization.

Rule 10.1.4
Any umpire's decision which involves judgement, such as whether a hit is fair or foul, whether a pitch is a ball or strike or whether a runner is safe or out, is final. ..........
No umpire shall critize or interfere with another umpires decision unless asked by the one making it.

This is the high school rule and I suspect it is common to all affiliations.

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Originally posted by PantherProud:
I agree totally with bluezebra and will quote the rule in regard to the NFHS organization.

Rule 10.1.4
Any umpire's decision which involves judgement, such as whether a hit is fair or foul, whether a pitch is a ball or strike or whether a runner is safe or out, is final. ..........
No umpire shall critize or interfere with another umpires decision unless asked by the one making it.

This is the high school rule and I suspect it is common to all affiliations.

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PP:

It's in all baseball and softball rule books, at every level.

Just to reinforce this thought. It is not only in theory and the NFHS rule book that we not have any right to overrule one another, it is not the accepted practice of any trained umpire.

If we are asked by our partner for help or additional information the accepted practice is to offer that information to the Umpire so that they can make any adjustment to the call. Nothing makes an Umpiring team look worse than having them make 2 calls.

If your not asked by the other umpire you do not volunteer any information.

Hey jwonbb:

Have you found the rule(s) that backup your ridiculous statement about Umpires-in-Chief having the final say? Or are still trying to find something that doesn't exist?

By the way, how much umpiring experience do YOU have?