Coach May,
I respect your opinion immensely. Son was courted as a pitcher only for Fall/Summer Jr year and joined team as pitcher only for a top 5 PG ranked team. He is incredibly accurate - but as a RHP never broke through 85. Attended all the top PG events. Also did the college camp route, and entered those college camps as a 2 way player. Every offer he received was from a college camp who wanted him as a hitter first and pitcher second. He accepted the offer from the mid level D1 coach who wanted him primarily as a hitter, and will give him opportunity to pitch.
I must be one of "those" parents, but I can't help but wonder what would have happened if he were given the opportunity to hit as well during the ever important showcase season this past summer and fall.
What about the opposite problem. Parents that would like their son to focus on his best projectable position (Hitter, Infielder, due to stature) but is called upon to be a 2 way player at the colligate level, because he throws 90+ with good control and offspeed pitches.
I don't think all players that are 2 way have been put in that position because of either their or their families insistance.
And I don't believe it only happens with a "Buster POsey or Matt Wieters" type player. I know of players that get recruited because of their bat and skill with a glove and end up also being a key starting pitcher. Then scouts wonder what is this kid? Is he a pitcher? 3rd Baseman? SS?
I agree that it can hurt the development process, but it is not always the parents of players "fault".
I don't think all players that are 2 way have been put in that position because of either their or their families insistance.
And I don't believe it only happens with a "Buster POsey or Matt Wieters" type player. I know of players that get recruited because of their bat and skill with a glove and end up also being a key starting pitcher. Then scouts wonder what is this kid? Is he a pitcher? 3rd Baseman? SS?
I agree that it can hurt the development process, but it is not always the parents of players "fault".
What you have there is a program that did a poor job of evaluating your son and where he projected at the next level. Would you agree with that?
FF once a kid enters a college program we are talking about an entirely different situation. And I never said ALL parents.
Coach May - We must have been in the same room listening to the same conversation...more than once. 
That conversation you described is what this thread was all about when I started it.
That conversation you described is what this thread was all about when I started it.
Sorry, Coach May, I edited while you were typing. And I know it is not "all anything or anyone"
FF no problem. Your son is an example of a top tier position player who also can really pitch. Scouts will evaluate him and they will decide where his real value is at. Just like a college coach will in recruiting. There are always exceptions. But lets be honest kids who can be the best bat and arm at the college level are rare. Some people have a hard time understanding that.
quote:What you have there is a program that did a poor job of evaluating your son and where he projected at the next level. Would you agree with that?
I think what we had was a coach/program that tunnel visioned "projection", and took on other position players so that all pitchers were one way only. Intentions were good; timing...maybe not so much.
Part of the problem Coach May and justbaseball describe comes from one of the unique features of baseball.
If you're a pretty good high school basketball or football player and you line up across from a true D1 prospect, he'll show you how much better than you he is on every play, and the memory of getting burned or paved or stuffed or schooled by real talent will drive away unrealistic dreams forever.
In baseball, that's not always the case.
It's not unusual for an inferior pitcher to get through a showcase outing relatively unscathed by superior hitters: a generous strike zone, a couple balls hit right at fielders, and a couple guys over swing at obvious meat--and next thing you know the guy leaves the game thinking, "I can play with these guys!"
It's not unusual for a pretty good shortstop to play against a team with a truly elite one and shake hands with him at the end of the game without realizing how much better he is if they both only handled routine chances that day.
It's not even unusual for a so-so high school hitter to get blown away by a D1 pitching prospect and not have it change his outlook because, after all, even Babe Ruth struck out 1330 times.
Parents who easily accept that their son doesn't have the quickness to play high school basketball are still susceptible to cherishing the hope that he can play shortstop in college. Why?
Because baseball teaches you to deal with failure but it seldom offers its lessons in such unambiguous terms as when you meet a future D1 linebacker coming at you through the A gap.
That's not to say the differences aren't real and significant. It just that true baseball guys see differences in warmups that we parents might not discern over the course of an entire season.
That's why it is so important to get a travel coach you can trust--and then listen to him. I'm glad my son's first "real" travel coach laid it out in plain terms when he offered a roster spot: "Son, you gotta understand you're not gonna play the field or hit here because I have guys who do those things better than you can. Your future is on the mound, and that's the only place you'll play if scouts are around. Are you sure you're okay with that?" "Yes, Coach." "Good. Welcome aboard."
If you're a pretty good high school basketball or football player and you line up across from a true D1 prospect, he'll show you how much better than you he is on every play, and the memory of getting burned or paved or stuffed or schooled by real talent will drive away unrealistic dreams forever.
In baseball, that's not always the case.
It's not unusual for an inferior pitcher to get through a showcase outing relatively unscathed by superior hitters: a generous strike zone, a couple balls hit right at fielders, and a couple guys over swing at obvious meat--and next thing you know the guy leaves the game thinking, "I can play with these guys!"
It's not unusual for a pretty good shortstop to play against a team with a truly elite one and shake hands with him at the end of the game without realizing how much better he is if they both only handled routine chances that day.
It's not even unusual for a so-so high school hitter to get blown away by a D1 pitching prospect and not have it change his outlook because, after all, even Babe Ruth struck out 1330 times.
Parents who easily accept that their son doesn't have the quickness to play high school basketball are still susceptible to cherishing the hope that he can play shortstop in college. Why?
Because baseball teaches you to deal with failure but it seldom offers its lessons in such unambiguous terms as when you meet a future D1 linebacker coming at you through the A gap.
That's not to say the differences aren't real and significant. It just that true baseball guys see differences in warmups that we parents might not discern over the course of an entire season.
That's why it is so important to get a travel coach you can trust--and then listen to him. I'm glad my son's first "real" travel coach laid it out in plain terms when he offered a roster spot: "Son, you gotta understand you're not gonna play the field or hit here because I have guys who do those things better than you can. Your future is on the mound, and that's the only place you'll play if scouts are around. Are you sure you're okay with that?" "Yes, Coach." "Good. Welcome aboard."
quote:Originally posted by justakid:quote:What you have there is a program that did a poor job of evaluating your son and where he projected at the next level. Would you agree with that?
I think what we had was a coach/program that tunnel visioned "projection", and took on other position players so that all pitchers were one way only. Intentions were good; timing...maybe not so much.
I think a lot has to do with business sometimes rather than what is best for the player. Keep in mind what you want to look for in a summer HS program is one that will show off your son's BEST skill set in front of programs that match his talent level. A really good coach, who has done it for years and years, KNOWS who should be playing which position in front of which coaches.
I think that sometimes people get a bit confused that playing multiple positions makes one more valuable, I don't agree with that. What I do agree with is taking the chance if approached to play another position IF it is in the players best interest, usually a position player with a rocket arm possibly transitioning to pitcher.
Case in point: DJ Mitchell from Clemson.
I think this thread like so many others here takes on an assumption that the "next level" always means big time D1 or pro ball.
Really the next level for a HS kid is a roster spot on any college baseball team regardless of classification.
Many parents of young ball players (like me) do have their eyes open and have realistic expectations.
Really the next level for a HS kid is a roster spot on any college baseball team regardless of classification.
Many parents of young ball players (like me) do have their eyes open and have realistic expectations.
cball you are right. There are players that can play D1 that are better suited for other levels. For many reasons. And maybe they are a D1 pitcher but a D2 position player. Maybe they would rather go D2 so they can do both? There are all different scenarios we could come up with. The bottom line is any level past HS is awesome. Its an opportunity to play college baseball and an opportunity to continue playing the game they love. The accomplishment is the same no matter what the level is past HS. You stay in the game as long as you can and play it as long as you can. And enjoy the heck out it because sooner or later you got to go to work.
quote:The bottom line is any level past HS is awesome. Its an opportunity to play college baseball and an opportunity to continue playing the game they love. The accomplishment is the same no matter what the level is past HS. You stay in the game as long as you can and play it as long as you can. And enjoy the heck out it because sooner or later you got to go to work.
quote:Originally posted by floridafan:
What about the opposite problem. Parents that would like their son to focus on his best projectable position (Hitter, Infielder, due to stature) but is called upon to be a 2 way player at the colligate level, because he throws 90+ with good control and offspeed pitches.
I don't think all players that are 2 way have been put in that position because of either their or their families insistance.
And I don't believe it only happens with a "Buster POsey or Matt Wieters" type player. I know of players that get recruited because of their bat and skill with a glove and end up also being a key starting pitcher. Then scouts wonder what is this kid? Is he a pitcher? 3rd Baseman? SS?
I agree that it can hurt the development process, but it is not always the parents of players "fault".
FF- Good point, I agree with you. 247son is a Sub 6 footer. He has larger hands and feet than yours truly, and I'm just under 6'3", but he appears to be done growing? Because of this, I'd prefer that he stay in the outfield when he attends college in 2012. Obviously what I prefer and where the coaches ultimately decide to put him is not up to me. It looks like he will be called upon to be the main SP on his HS team this upcoming season, play the outfield, and hit clean up. As JB stated in his OP, there are a number of kids that have the ability to do both and fit the same mold, but choose not to for various reasons. Personally, I think it's an advantage if you're a legitimate 2-way guy on your HS and/or Travel Team. 247son had plenty of schools recruiting him because of this, but they weren't banging the door down with offers, as they had a hard time determining where he'd fit best in their program...possible disadvantage? He did sign with a pretty strong program, and will be given an OPPORTUNITY to show that he can handle 2-way duties...I say OPPORTUNITY, because that's all they promised, nothing is guaranteed! I'm just happy that he's gonna play beyond high school at a very good university, and is just a little over an hour away from home...Pretty Tough to Beat!
quote:Originally posted by Coach_May:
cball you are right. There are players that can play D1 that are better suited for other levels. For many reasons. And maybe they are a D1 pitcher but a D2 position player. Maybe they would rather go D2 so they can do both? There are all different scenarios we could come up with. The bottom line is any level past HS is awesome. Its an opportunity to play college baseball and an opportunity to continue playing the game they love. The accomplishment is the same no matter what the level is past HS. You stay in the game as long as you can and play it as long as you can. And enjoy the heck out it because sooner or later you got to go to work.
Coach May,
Short and to the point, I also.....
Yes, the next level is any level beyond the current one.
Swampboy,
IMO, there is a lot of truth in your last post.
Too much disregard for speed because someone not so fast stole a base against top competition or made a nice play in the field. Too much disregard for velocity because someone pitched a few scoreless innings against top competition. Too much disregard for hitting because someone went 2 for 2 against good pitching. It really boils down to the old argument about the importance of stats vs. physical ability. Sometimes it can get confusing when people have certain expectations.
I like your basketball or football analogy. How about boxing. Wonder how long it would take for a young boxer (facing a real good one) to be realistic about his ability.
Swampboy,
IMO, there is a lot of truth in your last post.
Too much disregard for speed because someone not so fast stole a base against top competition or made a nice play in the field. Too much disregard for velocity because someone pitched a few scoreless innings against top competition. Too much disregard for hitting because someone went 2 for 2 against good pitching. It really boils down to the old argument about the importance of stats vs. physical ability. Sometimes it can get confusing when people have certain expectations.
I like your basketball or football analogy. How about boxing. Wonder how long it would take for a young boxer (facing a real good one) to be realistic about his ability.
quote:That's not to say the differences aren't real and significant. It just that true baseball guys see differences in warmups that we parents might not discern over the course of an entire season.
It's far easier to discern differences in physical skill than acquired ones. Parents AND Baseball experts often misread or fail to project the acquired skills needed to hit or pitch at the highest level.
The reason so many experts are so often DEAD WRONG.. A guy like Dustin Pedroia or even a Pujols comes out of no where to STAR...
Swamp - your entire post was great, but I especially liked the end! Nicely done...quote:Originally posted by Swampboy:
That's why it is so important to get a travel coach you can trust--and then listen to him. I'm glad my son's first "real" travel coach laid it out in plain terms when he offered a roster spot: "Son, you gotta understand you're not gonna play the field or hit here because I have guys who do those things better than you can. Your future is on the mound, and that's the only place you'll play if scouts are around. Are you sure you're okay with that?" "Yes, Coach." "Good. Welcome aboard."
GED10DaD
quote:In baseball, that's not always the case.
It's not unusual for an inferior pitcher to get through a showcase outing relatively unscathed by superior hitters: a generous strike zone, a couple balls hit right at fielders, and a couple guys over swing at obvious meat--and next thing you know the guy leaves the game thinking, "I can play with these guys!"
It's not unusual for a pretty good shortstop to play against a team with a truly elite one and shake hands with him at the end of the game without realizing how much better he is if they both only handled routine chances that day.
It's not even unusual for a so-so high school hitter to get blown away by a D1 pitching prospect and not have it change his outlook because, after all, even Babe Ruth struck out 1330 times.
Swampboy,
Agree with others, great post. Your examples are spot on...seen it happen countless times.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
Yes, the next level is any level beyond the current one.
Swampboy,
IMO, there is a lot of truth in your last post.
Too much disregard for speed because someone not so fast stole a base against top competition or made a nice play in the field. Too much disregard for velocity because someone pitched a few scoreless innings against top competition. Too much disregard for hitting because someone went 2 for 2 against good pitching. It really boils down to the old argument about the importance of stats vs. physical ability. Sometimes it can get confusing when people have certain expectations.
I like your basketball or football analogy. How about boxing. Wonder how long it would take for a young boxer (facing a real good one) to be realistic about his ability.
So much of a baseball players ability or talent lies in the "skill" portion. Like golf. You must have skills to go with the raw althetic abilty. It helps to have gobs of both.
I really, really like this thread. Every new HSBBWeb poster should be required to read it! Every level has been touched from HS, HS Summer, Summer Travel/Select, Showcases, PG, D1,D2, Pro ball etc...
It really emphasizes where we are all focused with our kids. Each level, each step in the journey is important. For me, the bottomline is projectability. Projectable skillsets for the next level. In other words, as GUN grew, matured, gained experience against increasingly better competition he was evaluated on projectability after High School and beyond. Many, many eyes added their input, some trustworthy... some not. But, having said that, even the those eyes that proved untrustworthy still had some input in the overall product. So, as a parent of a college baseball player (Fall 2011), I now understand he signed with a national level program because we focused on the higher projected skillsets and stopped focusing on the less projectable skills.
And, in retrospect, I would not have changed a thing.
GED10DaD
It really emphasizes where we are all focused with our kids. Each level, each step in the journey is important. For me, the bottomline is projectability. Projectable skillsets for the next level. In other words, as GUN grew, matured, gained experience against increasingly better competition he was evaluated on projectability after High School and beyond. Many, many eyes added their input, some trustworthy... some not. But, having said that, even the those eyes that proved untrustworthy still had some input in the overall product. So, as a parent of a college baseball player (Fall 2011), I now understand he signed with a national level program because we focused on the higher projected skillsets and stopped focusing on the less projectable skills.
And, in retrospect, I would not have changed a thing.
GED10DaD
I'm not going to disagree with anything written here because its good advice, but instead offer another perspective. My son's 17/18 U travel team was a good one. The infield alone recieved scholarships to the following schools: Clemson, Virginia Tech, Kansas St., Northwestern, Wake Forest and LSU. Interestingly , nearly everyone of these players were 2-way players on this travel team (and had success against top national competition as two way guys) and some are still harboring hopes of doing so at the next level.
The point is that I don't think there are absolutes here. Obviously every dad thinks his kid is a two-way player until such time that reality comes calling. However, it is not unreasonable to also think that maybe when a coach gives you his advice that your son can/should only play one position on his team that advice is based on his need and not necessarily projecting your son's future or his best interests.
I guess one point of this is that by a certain age you will know pretty for certain if your son is truly a two-way potential player or not and act accordingly.
The point is that I don't think there are absolutes here. Obviously every dad thinks his kid is a two-way player until such time that reality comes calling. However, it is not unreasonable to also think that maybe when a coach gives you his advice that your son can/should only play one position on his team that advice is based on his need and not necessarily projecting your son's future or his best interests.
I guess one point of this is that by a certain age you will know pretty for certain if your son is truly a two-way potential player or not and act accordingly.
quote:when a coach gives you his advice that your son can/should only play one position on his team that advice is based on his need and not necessarily projecting your son's future or his best interests
Igball - totally agree. Now, I also recognize that college coaches make similar determinations. However, college coaches are "paying" via scholarship money for that assignment. I believe that travel coaches often fill for the need of the team and not for the best future scholarship or professional opportunity of the potential 2-way player.
That quote would not include all teams and all coaches. I can assure you of that.
I can also assure that the quote is inaccurate in many (most?) cases.
The places where I've seen that to be true are teams that are coached by parents and/or teams that are only interested in collecting plastic trophies in order to create more customers for their (usually) high-priced baseball team or academy.
Good coaches with good motives have good reputations and good programs have good reputations as well. Teams that do not operate on the principle quoted above (coach's need comes first) are not hard to find if you put in a little effort and when the good ones advise a certain path for your son...they are far more often right than wrong.
While I fully support parents being their son's #1 advocate, we (parents) need to be able to listen as well as speak (and be stubborn). Hard to do sometimes.
The places where I've seen that to be true are teams that are coached by parents and/or teams that are only interested in collecting plastic trophies in order to create more customers for their (usually) high-priced baseball team or academy.
Good coaches with good motives have good reputations and good programs have good reputations as well. Teams that do not operate on the principle quoted above (coach's need comes first) are not hard to find if you put in a little effort and when the good ones advise a certain path for your son...they are far more often right than wrong.
While I fully support parents being their son's #1 advocate, we (parents) need to be able to listen as well as speak (and be stubborn). Hard to do sometimes.
My oldest son played on 3 "17-18U Scout Teams". Each one was most interested in providing opportunities for their players to be seen in what the coach believed was their best position to advance to the next level.
This is def one of my pet peeves. What advice should a player take? We have heard it all.
Your son is too tall to play infield. 6'2"
Your son is too fast for infield.
Your son has too strong of an arm for infield.
His bat is too big for infield.
I think with his tools he should be a pitcher only and pitch run for us.
I think he would best be used as a pitcher and DH.
I think he would be best utilized as a PO.
I think he should be a right fielder and pitch.
I think he should be a pitcher and we will use him as a pitch runner and DH him.
We think he is a PO but will give him a chance at SS.
They do and 1 month later he is the starter at SS.
I have heard every opinion possible in the last 5 years for all kind of crazy reasons.
How do you expect a player and parent to take any coach seriously when they all have an opinion that helps the current team? Every decision that I have ever seen made is only good for the current team and the current teams needs.
Honest opinions are impossible to find. And they are just opinions.
I forgot a few.
I think he is a natural third baseman.
Don't worry about bunts infield, everybody stay home and he will take care of it.(by a coach who wouldn't play him in the field.)
I think you are a natural fielder. We will use you as a utility player.
You can steal whenever you want. Don't worry about the cut offs. We will DH for you this tournament because you cant hit.
You will DH for us this tournament.
And my personal favorites:
I didn't know you could run that fast.
I didn't know you could throw that hard.
I didn't know you could hit like that.
I didn't know you could field like that.
Every coach we have known is biased one way or the other. How in the heck do you expect us to take your advice?
Your son is too tall to play infield. 6'2"
Your son is too fast for infield.
Your son has too strong of an arm for infield.
His bat is too big for infield.
I think with his tools he should be a pitcher only and pitch run for us.
I think he would best be used as a pitcher and DH.
I think he would be best utilized as a PO.
I think he should be a right fielder and pitch.
I think he should be a pitcher and we will use him as a pitch runner and DH him.
We think he is a PO but will give him a chance at SS.
They do and 1 month later he is the starter at SS.
I have heard every opinion possible in the last 5 years for all kind of crazy reasons.
How do you expect a player and parent to take any coach seriously when they all have an opinion that helps the current team? Every decision that I have ever seen made is only good for the current team and the current teams needs.
Honest opinions are impossible to find. And they are just opinions.
I forgot a few.
I think he is a natural third baseman.
Don't worry about bunts infield, everybody stay home and he will take care of it.(by a coach who wouldn't play him in the field.)
I think you are a natural fielder. We will use you as a utility player.
You can steal whenever you want. Don't worry about the cut offs. We will DH for you this tournament because you cant hit.
You will DH for us this tournament.
And my personal favorites:
I didn't know you could run that fast.
I didn't know you could throw that hard.
I didn't know you could hit like that.
I didn't know you could field like that.
Every coach we have known is biased one way or the other. How in the heck do you expect us to take your advice?
Doughnutman, absolutely a fantastic post.
SELF BELIEF!
Take it all in, make a decision, evaluate, reevaluate, work hard, work harder, but ultimately you are responsible for yourself and your own success or lack of.
SELF BELIEF!
Take it all in, make a decision, evaluate, reevaluate, work hard, work harder, but ultimately you are responsible for yourself and your own success or lack of.
Hudson was a two-year letter winner at Auburn, earning National Player of the Year honors in 1997 as he helped Auburn to its fourth College World Series appearance. In two years at Auburn, he was 20-5 on the mound with a 3.08 ERA while at the plate he hit .379 with 77 runs scored, 23 doubles, 21 home runs and 102 RBI. In his Player of the Year season of '97, he hit .396 with 18 home runs and went 15-2 with a 2.97 ERA on the mound. (Auburn website)
I’m sure Auburn was glad he was a 2 way player.
Very well aware this doesn't happen often, but agree that SELF BELIEF is extremely important, and the decision to go 1 way should be taken very seriously, and not too soon.
I’m sure Auburn was glad he was a 2 way player.
Very well aware this doesn't happen often, but agree that SELF BELIEF is extremely important, and the decision to go 1 way should be taken very seriously, and not too soon.
There used to be more two way players than there are, college baseball, like pro, has become more specialty, pitchers are pitchers and hitters are hitters.
It's not real healthy for a player who is used as a pitcher to swing the bat consistantly. So at some point in time, those guys that play consistantly two way do make choices.
Donutman,
I thought that your son's strength was as pitcher? You mean every coach your son has played for really has no idea where his best skill is?
Sometimes there is the syndrome, jack of all trades, master of none. At this time, perhaps your son should be concentrating on his best skill, whether it be pitcher or position with the bat, I really have never had any situation where coaches could not determine the strengths of the player, even at young ages.
It's not real healthy for a player who is used as a pitcher to swing the bat consistantly. So at some point in time, those guys that play consistantly two way do make choices.
Donutman,
I thought that your son's strength was as pitcher? You mean every coach your son has played for really has no idea where his best skill is?
Sometimes there is the syndrome, jack of all trades, master of none. At this time, perhaps your son should be concentrating on his best skill, whether it be pitcher or position with the bat, I really have never had any situation where coaches could not determine the strengths of the player, even at young ages.
The question is not wether it can be done or not. Of course it can be done. If your son goes to a college program and he is good enough there to do both and the coaches believe he helps the team doing both then he will do both. If not he won't.
The OP's question "Are some kids cut short by parents insistence on being 2-way?"
Yes. Are all of them? No
There will come a day if they play long enough where what we think is not going to matter one bit. The only thing that is going to matter is the players ability and the coaches belief in that ability.
The OP's question "Are some kids cut short by parents insistence on being 2-way?"
Yes. Are all of them? No
There will come a day if they play long enough where what we think is not going to matter one bit. The only thing that is going to matter is the players ability and the coaches belief in that ability.
quote:Originally posted by justbaseball:
Really strong arms...but parents didn't want them to pitch at age 12/14...even 16/17 (HS) in some cases. Parents far preferred their kid to play a position and hit. Travel and HS coaches tried to get these kids to pitch, but the parents thought either a) it might endanger their arm or b) they'd never get to hit again or c) both. In the end, even though I know these kids have/had really strong arms (high 80s - 90+ in some cases), we never really found out if they could pitch at a high level. My guess is some...yes!
Did the parents hurt their sons' chances of playing/evolving/blossoming beyond HS by insisting they remain a hitter?
Thoughts?
I don't know I got something different out of the OP's post but I do realize that these topics morph and evolve into other thoughts.
I took it that some kids with rocket arms do miss out at pitching because parents don't want them to stop hitting. I do beleive that this happens often, especially with players that it isn't as apparent as to which might be their better skill.
I don't think that in general most good HS travel coaches make poor decisions as to where the player should be on the field based on the need to take home plastic trophies. Of course there should be an emphasis on winning, and finding the right players for that is part of them being good coaches. On sons HS travel teams he played on, you were either a pitcher or a position player, no one did both, even though most could.
Good thread and food for thought, especially for me. Son is a HS freshman this year. High school coach wants him as a position player. Son has also been recruited for a summer travel team that is coached by a different HS coach. That coach wants him as a PO and possibly utility.
Interesting to see how they view him differently. Obviously being a PO would be new coming from youth baseball where he, like most, did both.
I guess during the next year or two we will see where his strength is. My concern, like several in this thread, is that the coach puts him where he is most beneficial to the team and not necessarily what is the most beneficial to him. A tough call.
Interesting to see how they view him differently. Obviously being a PO would be new coming from youth baseball where he, like most, did both.
I guess during the next year or two we will see where his strength is. My concern, like several in this thread, is that the coach puts him where he is most beneficial to the team and not necessarily what is the most beneficial to him. A tough call.
I always wanted my kids to pitch and play a position. I know that there high school team puts them on two separate depth charts; pitching & position player. If you are low on one the other can help you make the team. Since maybe 40% of the kids make the team it is critical that you are willing and able to move to whatever position the coach wants you to play. It is MHO that kids know how to play all 9 positions going into high school.
TPM,
Who knows where my son wil end up. He hit 89 as a freshman and he threw this fall a heck of a lot harder. But he is a crazy good ss and drives the ball.
I will just let the competition decide where he should be. When somebody shows up and is better than he is then he will have to decide. But his preference is SS and swinging the bat. IMO he has 3 years to pick a position.
Trust me. No coach has a clue where he should play. He outplays everybody at every position he plays. And when he does very well they all say I told you he is a natural "fill in the position". I think he gets punished for being athletic. HS has a new coach again. It will be interesting(frustrating) to see where his biases are.
Who knows where my son wil end up. He hit 89 as a freshman and he threw this fall a heck of a lot harder. But he is a crazy good ss and drives the ball.
I will just let the competition decide where he should be. When somebody shows up and is better than he is then he will have to decide. But his preference is SS and swinging the bat. IMO he has 3 years to pick a position.
Trust me. No coach has a clue where he should play. He outplays everybody at every position he plays. And when he does very well they all say I told you he is a natural "fill in the position". I think he gets punished for being athletic. HS has a new coach again. It will be interesting(frustrating) to see where his biases are.
Our experience is that as players move up, very few ever get the opportunity to pick their position.
DM, your post reminds me of a young man who pitched against our son.
At that time, the kid was a freshman at one of the very top HS programs in California. The young man was lefty who was 88-90. Even as a HS freshman, he could really pitch.
He could also really hit. I could be wrong but I think he broke some Barry Bonds HS records or was very close to them.
Well, his HS career was, by some measures, up and down and included some arm issues along the way.
By his senior year, he was a top ranked player, nationally.
He ended up being drafted in the 4th round and signed for higher slot $$$$.
By most reports, when he signed he was under the impression he would pitch and hit.
I believe he had 1-2 AB's in MILB and never again touched a bat.
After 3 great years pitching in Milb, including a stint in the Milb All Star game, he is now scuffling in the higher levels of Milb and with his 3rd team in 3 years.
Why do I post this? Just to suggest we, as parents, should never take anything about the future for granted.
It can all change in one second.
It is great to enjoy the talent your son is showing especially if he is now throwing a "heck of a lot" harder than 89(however hard that is.) It is great he is such a talented and wonderful shortstop.
It will be even better if you can enjoy his ability in 3-4-5 years and cherish each part of that journey with a recognition that baseball,eventually, humbles and challenges almost every player.
DM, your post reminds me of a young man who pitched against our son.
At that time, the kid was a freshman at one of the very top HS programs in California. The young man was lefty who was 88-90. Even as a HS freshman, he could really pitch.
He could also really hit. I could be wrong but I think he broke some Barry Bonds HS records or was very close to them.
Well, his HS career was, by some measures, up and down and included some arm issues along the way.
By his senior year, he was a top ranked player, nationally.
He ended up being drafted in the 4th round and signed for higher slot $$$$.
By most reports, when he signed he was under the impression he would pitch and hit.
I believe he had 1-2 AB's in MILB and never again touched a bat.
After 3 great years pitching in Milb, including a stint in the Milb All Star game, he is now scuffling in the higher levels of Milb and with his 3rd team in 3 years.
Why do I post this? Just to suggest we, as parents, should never take anything about the future for granted.
It can all change in one second.
It is great to enjoy the talent your son is showing especially if he is now throwing a "heck of a lot" harder than 89(however hard that is.) It is great he is such a talented and wonderful shortstop.
It will be even better if you can enjoy his ability in 3-4-5 years and cherish each part of that journey with a recognition that baseball,eventually, humbles and challenges almost every player.
Like I said earlier, it is a pet peeve of mine. It just seems like if a kid ahas a strong arm, they are pigeon holed as a pitcher. It is the easiest decision as a coach. Let the less armed kids play a position.
Infielddad
I have no idea how hard he throws. He gets clocked when we play the schools that have a gun, cruise at 86 last year. 89 when irritated. But it is def harder than that last year. The new coach will prob put him at PO depite hitting 500 plus and 5 HR and leading the JV with 1000+ slugging, runs scored and any category you want to look at besides walks. He bats like a DR guy. Never saw a pitch he didn't like.
If you can reach it you can hit. Huge Vlad fan.
Infielddad
I have no idea how hard he throws. He gets clocked when we play the schools that have a gun, cruise at 86 last year. 89 when irritated. But it is def harder than that last year. The new coach will prob put him at PO depite hitting 500 plus and 5 HR and leading the JV with 1000+ slugging, runs scored and any category you want to look at besides walks. He bats like a DR guy. Never saw a pitch he didn't like.
If you can reach it you can hit. Huge Vlad fan.
quote:Never saw a pitch he didn't like.
That could be why college coaches project him as a pitcher
quote:Originally posted by Doughnutman:
Like I said earlier, it is a pet peeve of mine. It just seems like if a kid ahas a strong arm, they are pigeon holed as a pitcher. It is the easiest decision as a coach. Let the less armed kids play a position.
Infielddad
I have no idea how hard he throws. He gets clocked when we play the schools that have a gun, cruise at 86 last year. 89 when irritated. But it is def harder than that last year. The new coach will prob put him at PO depite hitting 500 plus and 5 HR and leading the JV with 1000+ slugging, runs scored and any category you want to look at besides walks. He bats like a DR guy. Never saw a pitch he didn't like.
If you can reach it you can hit. Huge Vlad fan.
Why not just sit back and enjoy it all, if he is as good as you say, they will notice. It might just well be for now, that coaches will use him because he is multi talented.
However, you might want to reconsider pitching and ss, too much throwing (if he does both in a season) isn't healthy for later on.
Doughnutman,
I understand your frustration. Coaches do have differing sets of eyes, needs for the team, talent levels among their players to choose from etc.
What's missing from the discussion here is what does your player want to do? If he wants to be a position player then that's where he will go during tryouts. This is the point where he needs to get involved with these decisions and learn how to interact with his Coaches. In HS Dad's eventually learn to butt out and have the boys learn to fend for themselves.
He can let the Coach know he would be available to pitch "some" but has no interest in being a pitcher only. Now, once he does this, he must know that he will have to live with the consequences.
My opinion, if he is unsure, is to encourage him to play a position and hit as long as he wants and as long as he can compete and earn a position. If he's unable to win a position, then maybe then would be a good time to consider PO.
I understand your frustration. Coaches do have differing sets of eyes, needs for the team, talent levels among their players to choose from etc.
What's missing from the discussion here is what does your player want to do? If he wants to be a position player then that's where he will go during tryouts. This is the point where he needs to get involved with these decisions and learn how to interact with his Coaches. In HS Dad's eventually learn to butt out and have the boys learn to fend for themselves.
He can let the Coach know he would be available to pitch "some" but has no interest in being a pitcher only. Now, once he does this, he must know that he will have to live with the consequences.
My opinion, if he is unsure, is to encourage him to play a position and hit as long as he wants and as long as he can compete and earn a position. If he's unable to win a position, then maybe then would be a good time to consider PO.