Skip to main content

My 13 year old son (8th grade) has been in a strength/speed/agility/hitting program over the winter, no throwing or weight lifting, just keeping in shape.  The program is in its last month and last night the fitness trainer pulled me aside to show me how my son moved differently than ALL the other kids.  When the trainer called for frog jumps most kids jumped forward like a frog would, my sons legs started wide like a frog but by the time he landed his knees were almost touching and bent inwards towards each other, while his feet were still far apart.

The trainer said this was caused by weak hips and glutes.  He said "All the speed and agility training in the world won't work until he can get those built up because right now his running and movements are just ineffective."  Then he talked about a few private lessons to teach him to strengthen those areas.  He said "I'm not saying he's in immediate trouble, but if he keeps putting pressure on his knee like that it will eventually blow."

When someone says something like he needs a private lesson or *insert bad thing here* will happen I usually assume people are trying to just scam money, or trying to get me to drink the kool-aid, but I did actually see a huge difference in the way my kid moved and the other kids. I can ignore ideas about "He MUST play for team X or else", and even "if he doesn't do THIS he will never get to the next level"...but this is my kids health long term, regardless of baseball, so I'm not going to just ignore this one, or wait until he is hurting. Four years of catching and he has never complained of knee pain, but I know that doesn't mean anything.

Is this weak hips thing for real?  Any suggestions?

Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Hip issues are a fairly common problem.  Sometimes it's a strength issue.  Sometimes it's flexibility.  Sometimes it's both.  I cannot speak to your son's issues other than to say that the trainer could be right.  Get a second opinion from another trainer or a physical therapist who treats a lot of athletes.  

Get online and look up info on his issue. There may be exercises on there he can do at home if you don't want to pay for a few extra lessons. What is your opinion of this trainer? You need to be able to trust who you are working with. You said u noticed a difference in how your son did drill compared to others. 

Getting a second opinion is great, but going to a physical therapist can be expensive depending on your insurance. Usu a dr. Sees you first and sends u to work w them for a specific rehab reason, at least that's how it's worked for son.  How much would the few lessons w trainer be?

I would get an eval from a PT who works with athletes and lower body injuries. My concern would be that he's putting undue stress on his knees. Your primary care physician might write a PT script for this, or you might have to pay out of pocket. That doesn't mean he needs PT, but he may need to do specific strengthening exercises to protect his knees and hips. IMO, rigorous training should be monitored closely for kids who are growing fast, and it sounds like his trainer is doing just that.

Ran into a similar issue with my 2018 back in October.  We sought assistance with a PT group that works heavily with HS & College athletes.  I paid the hourly fee for an assessment to find my son had tight hip flexors and IT band that were impeding him from activating his glutes.  This put undue pressure on his lower back.  

I agreed to pay for a few sessions to get my son properly stretched out and to show my son what specific moves he needs to consistently perform to get his glutes activating. Turns out this same PT group was know for teaching proper running technique as well, so it made sense to commit more time with this PT group.

Eight sessions later my son is now able to perform deadlifts properly and he is running with improved technique and speed. He's moving correctly and not in pain.  It was well worth the investment.

 

We were often told that Ryno had these same issues and that it was a reason for his not running well.  I would definitely look into the issue online and see if you can find some exercises he could do at home.  Hopefully this will allow improvement.  If it doesn't, than I would consider the personal training.  In today's game, speed is so important.  My son can mash with the best of them, but his speed has always been subpar.  Work on speed!  Good Luck to your son!

playball2011 posted:

Get online and look up info on his issue. There may be exercises on there he can do at home if you don't want to pay for a few extra lessons. What is your opinion of this trainer? You need to be able to trust who you are working with. You said u noticed a difference in how your son did drill compared to others. 

Getting a second opinion is great, but going to a physical therapist can be expensive depending on your insurance. Usu a dr. Sees you first and sends u to work w them for a specific rehab reason, at least that's how it's worked for son.  How much would the few lessons w trainer be?

I only noticed the issues when the trainer pointed them out.  Let me tell you everything I know about physical fitness training........yeah I'm done.

The facility usually charges about $50/half hour. 

joemktg posted:

YES! So look for hip stabilizer exercises. BTW: those hip stabilizer exercises are now a regular part of joemktgson's routine as they continue to sow benefits.

But something else caught my eye: no weight lifting. Why is that?

Why no weight lifting?  Short answer, because he's 13. 

Longer answer is that I was advised a while back that too many kids screw themselves up by doing it wrong and it's just safer to have him work on resistance training and cardio to allow his body to slowly grow the muscles he wants. 

I could very easily see my son saying "Oh, Johnny benched 300#'s let me see if I can."....meanwhile Johnny is a 6'5 250# linebacker, but would my son make the connection that he shouldn't do what Johnny can, NOPE!  He's be the kid on the floor who screwed his back up.

2forU posted:

If your knees move inwards when you squat, you adductors are weaker than your quads and glutes (pretty typical).  Adductors can be worked independently and should respond quickly to the attention. I'd find a trainer that knows the difference.

Okay I looked up "adductors" and they are part of the hip...maybe this guy was just generalizing by saying his "hips were weak" because I'm a laymen?   

Maybe I should ask this question: Can people please provide the key words I should google regarding this situation?

I used to squat a lot and I had the same issue.  If I reduced the weight, I was able to perform a squat without my knees moving inward (towards each other).  I varied my squat cycles to higher reps with less weight for awhile and added adductor specific exercises and it eventually balanced out.  Your son is young and probably growing. Get a ball between his knees and perform a squat against a wall. Hold it with thighs parallel to the floor and squeeze the heck out of the ball (the ball squeeze works the adductors and the squeeze will also align the pelvic bone).  This can be done on the floor as well.  As your trainer for his plan to test for specific weaknesses he mentioned and his plan to fix and maintain going forward.

There is no reason a 13 yo can't do exercises that strengthen the hip.  At least to learn proper movements so they apply as he gets older.  Spend $100 on three training sessions with the guy.  Tell him what you hope to accomplish for $100.  My suggestion "to learn proper movements to strengthen and help with flexibility with the hips".  Did PT ask for what insurance you carried?

CaCO3Girl posted:
joemktg posted:

YES! So look for hip stabilizer exercises. BTW: those hip stabilizer exercises are now a regular part of joemktgson's routine as they continue to sow benefits.

But something else caught my eye: no weight lifting. Why is that?

Why no weight lifting?  Short answer, because he's 13. 

Longer answer is that I was advised a while back that too many kids screw themselves up by doing it wrong and it's just safer to have him work on resistance training and cardio to allow his body to slowly grow the muscles he wants. 

I could very easily see my son saying "Oh, Johnny benched 300#'s let me see if I can."....meanwhile Johnny is a 6'5 250# linebacker, but would my son make the connection that he shouldn't do what Johnny can, NOPE!  He's be the kid on the floor who screwed his back up.

There is not that much point in weight lifting until the testosterone surge kicks in and tells the body to make more muscle.   After that happens,  weight lifting can have serious benefit, since the male body is on a mission to build muscle then.   Before that,  it can do more harm than good, especially if not done properly and with good supervision.   The  testosterone surge comes at different times for different guys.  Once that happens,  weight training really help shapes the body. 

Last edited by SluggerDad
Go44dad posted:

CaCo, I'm just guessing from your posts about your son's size and age that core strength work is a good base to build.  Son probably needs time to grow into his body.

I would agree with that 100%.  He's 5'10 and 160#'s and will turn 14 next August.  A year and a half ago he was 4'10 and 145#'s....his body has changed just a tiny bit.

CaCO3Girl posted:
Go44dad posted:

CaCo, I'm just guessing from your posts about your son's size and age that core strength work is a good base to build.  Son probably needs time to grow into his body.

I would agree with that 100%.  He's 5'10 and 160#'s and will turn 14 next August.  A year and a half ago he was 4'10 and 145#'s....his body has changed just a tiny bit.

That's quite a growth spurt.   You might think of introducing him to pilates or yoga.  One of the things that they preach is  what they call neuromuscular awareness.   They really want you to focus on form, breathing, doing the exercises slowly and methodically,  etc.  Sometimes I think the mystical seeming  talk is  a lot of hokum.   But the discipline and focus of doing these type exercise in that way does seem to help not just strengthen muscles but improve balance, coordination, flexibility -- and  that's what they are getting at with their talk of neuromuscular awareness.  For a kid whose body has changed rapidly, it might be very helpful.  

Last edited by SluggerDad

I would take a look at normal body development in male youths.  Im really busy at work today or I would google it for you.  If I remember right from my college days (long gone and Im in IT so it doesn't apply to my profession) there is a lot of development that happens in a child's legs and knees at particular points in their development.  At some point kids go through phases where they become knocked kneed and then then grow out of it.  I believe its from lengthening and stretching of the ligaments around the joints in the body.  I am not sure how the hips are affected by this but it could just be a natural part of your child's body development.  Thats part of the reasons for the no weight lifting until after puberty thing.  Its to avoid damaging areas of the body that are going through their natural development.

BTW, as I said I work in IT and have no real medical knowledge other then the few classes I took in college related to sports and body development (in other words, the blow off, guaranteed 4.0 classes the athletes took to keep themselves eligible).  I could be way off base on this...

Go44dad posted:

CaCo, I'm just guessing from your posts about your son's size and age that core strength work is a good base to build.  Son probably needs time to grow into his body.

Concur here, lot's of pulling going on with the joints, reduced stability & little elasticity...  Pretty key to have strength trainers dialed into the kids ages and growth spurts, so that they teach the kids lifting moves that they're ready for....

CaCo, pay for the assessment, will open your & your son's eyes as to what's going on and what he needs to do....  We were relieved, my son is absent the pain, on the road to getting stronger and being a natural athlete again.

Based on a couple of posts I'll sit back and wait for the weight lifting before development debate to break out. My kids did light weight lifting starting in 7th grade under the supervision of their personal trainer mother. They didn't lift weight for serious development until high school.

As for the hip issue, I would pay for a couple of  sessions and watch to learn. Then supervise his training on your own. In a couple of months go back to the trainer once for a further assessment of the situation.

It doesn't have to cost a lot of money. To pay for a trainer every time he works out is paying the guy to watch.

I'll come at this from a couple of different angles - first as someone who was in PT for awhile to address low back issues that turned out to be caused by hip/glute issues and second as the parent of a 13 yr old  who is 6' ~180 lbs and was around 5'6" or so this time last year (don't have his exact measurements handy).  

As someone who has done the exercises and still does them today as part of a maintenance plan, there is no reason he can't do these on his own in front of a mirror.  If you do a search you'll find a million different plans to help with this but he'd probably be fine doing body weight squats and then doing work for the adductors and abductors using a set of flexible bands you wear around your ankles or knees - doing sideways walks or monster walks.  Since he's not injured right now it's really just preventative work.

So as someone who has been through it (and still lives it) I think it COULD be done by him, with your help, on his own.  But, having a 13 yr old who we call Sasquatch because when he runs it looks like a one of those videos from a big foot sighting show, I think it makes a lot of sense to set him up with the trainer to learn the proper technique for several lower body exercises that can be done with low weight or body weight.  It will potentially help with this issue (if there really is one) and it will set him up for future strength training which I'm guessing he's bound to end up in (since you're already going as part of team training).  Between summer baseball and football season last year we did just that with our 13yr old to help with pre-football conditioning and to give him a series of exercises he could do on his own (work-outs that he could repeat).   He enjoyed it and it set him up with habits that he's continuing with now as he goes to the gym to "work-out" whenever he has an off day from basketball.  

 

Wow, this thread is sort of all over the place. I have some pretty strong opinions based on our experience and what I consider to be fairly deep knowledge of strength and performance training for athletes.

1) There is no reason for a 13 year old NOT to lift weights. Our societal dissaffection for resistance training ("I want to be toned, not bulky") is non-sensical.  The physical and mental benefits of resistance training are manifold and it's not just about packing on muscle. First, the kid develops a gym habit. Think that's stupid? This stuff barely gets taught in school anymore. Kids that train as kids will continue to seek out fitness advancement through life. Second, neurological training and motor patterning. Much of the unseen beenfits of lifting are refined signalling and muscular recruitment during extertion. That stuff is not automatic with aging. It has to be developed. Third, soft tissue thickens in repsonse to time under load, regardless of hormone load in the body. This means stronger attachments between muscle and bone, thicker ligaments and tendons, and better structural capacity to defeat our friend Mr Gavity.

The issue has been researched and the research has been published. The only proviso in a few studies I read was to ensure adolescent lifting be conducted under the supervision of an experienced trainer (but not the guy selling memberships at your local big box gym ). See "programming" in #3 below.

2) As to strength deficits with "symptoms" like "knees move inward on landing," the commenter above is totally correct that this is very common. My lifting coaches constantly cue even their adult lifters on "knees out" on the eccentric movement for squats, cleans, deadlifts et al. One way to cue the knees out is to use a thera-band at the knees during squatting or other similar exercises which forces one to mind and create mild outward force during the lift (both going up and going down). My son started this practice at 13 for front squats in particular, and continued until he was well into the mid 200's on his front squats at 16. He'll still do it occasionally now that he's back squatting just to reinforce the motor patterning. But his form is really clean.

3) You might get better value (if you are willing to pay for it) to break down and pay for training in a more boutique Strength and Performance setting. Depending on the facility and it's conditioning model, your child's performance and overall athleticism will improve on a sound foundation. Better facilities are run by folks that are actually trained in things like multi-modality programming, safety, and will have the right equipment for the job. The doufous at 24-Hour Fitness will have him doing 3 sets of 10 on machines that have no use outside of the PT setting.

I really recommend #3. My son started physical training with me as a 12 year old. I learned to lift old school style, at school, on my own, then consumed everything I could to learn about physical fitness. I never quit that.  At 13 our baseball club had a full gym facility with two trainers. They got him started on gym habit, but in the end knew virtually nothing about programming and mixing modalities. By 14, I had him in a facility run by a former Clemson /Tampa Rays player who liked to say he majored in "lifting weights." Being a baseball guy he is fully tuned up. But he also happens to have a degree in Kinesiology, is a continuous learner and applier, and oh, he's a physical therapist. Tada!

CaCO3Girl posted:
joemktg posted:

YES! So look for hip stabilizer exercises. BTW: those hip stabilizer exercises are now a regular part of joemktgson's routine as they continue to sow benefits.

But something else caught my eye: no weight lifting. Why is that?

Why no weight lifting?  Short answer, because he's 13. 

Longer answer is that I was advised a while back that too many kids screw themselves up by doing it wrong and it's just safer to have him work on resistance training and cardio to allow his body to slowly grow the muscles he wants. 

I could very easily see my son saying "Oh, Johnny benched 300#'s let me see if I can."....meanwhile Johnny is a 6'5 250# linebacker, but would my son make the connection that he shouldn't do what Johnny can, NOPE!  He's be the kid on the floor who screwed his back up.

FWIW...

At 12, joemktgson started his weight training program under the tutelage of a professional trainer in a 1:1 environment. Expensive, yes. Reap benefits? Yes, but without a control group, it's not possible to be 100% definitive. Coordinate with a change in diet, specifically, an increase in protein intake? You bet.

The initial 6-9 months were about technique and conditioning and core, and thereafter we all felt comfortable adding weight onto the bar. So he matured in multiple ways: (1) technique; (2) recognized limitations; (3) cognizant of physical strengths and weaknesses.

When he entered HS at 14, he was so far ahead of the other freshman during the baseball weight training sessions that he was immediately placed with upper classmen. And even then he was a top 3 lifter....again, within the confines of his known limitations, i.e., he knew what he could and could not do.

Recommended action item: identify reputable trainers in your area, and discuss. Select one, and have the trainer do an eval. With the eval, consider a 6-9-12 month program with qualitative and quantitative benchmarks.

CaCO3Girl posted:
2forU posted:

If your knees move inwards when you squat, you adductors are weaker than your quads and glutes (pretty typical).  Adductors can be worked independently and should respond quickly to the attention. I'd find a trainer that knows the difference.

Okay I looked up "adductors" and they are part of the hip...maybe this guy was just generalizing by saying his "hips were weak" because I'm a laymen?   

Maybe I should ask this question: Can people please provide the key words I should google regarding this situation?

Hip flexor would be another..

Whether or not weight lifting/strength development is cost effective at an early age depends on the build of the kid. My kids were small until late power bursts in growth. They did light weight exercises. Their mother, a personal trainer supervised. Freshman year and 5'11" 135 the only thing my son was going to pull was a bone. His mother focused more on nutrition with the weight lifting. Soph year he was 6' , 160. Part was natural growth. Part was nutrition. Each year from nine on people would ask how my son was trained to throw hard. My response: We fed him.

Eating habits are a big, big deal.  I struggled to get my son to appreciate this for  years.  He was and remains a picky, picky eater and unfortunately his favorite foods are not the foods an athlete should eat.  I've been hoping his eating habits would finally change in college and he would start eating like an athlete.   He still hasn't fully embraced athletic nutrition.  Unfortunately, he's too old to be force fed.

Last edited by SluggerDad

Your son's knee valgus movement (knees collapsing in) is caused by a weakness of the hip abductor muscles (of which there are quite a few). Most notably the two muscles you want to focus on are the glute medius and the glute maximus. Both of these muscles play a huge role in knee pain and biomechanics in adolescent athletes. 

Bulldog 19 posted:

Your son's knee valgus movement (knees collapsing in) is caused by a weakness of the hip abductor muscles (of which there are quite a few). Most notably the two muscles you want to focus on are the glute medius and the glute maximus. Both of these muscles play a huge role in knee pain and biomechanics in adolescent athletes. 

While I believe you, and will look into those areas, I have a naive question.  I am interpreting this to mean my son has weak butt muscles, is that right?  What I don't get is how a catcher who sits in the squat position a LOT can have weak butt muscles.  Common sense would say that the catcher has the best butt muscles on the team...why the disconnect from common sense?

CaCO3Girl posted:
Bulldog 19 posted:

Your son's knee valgus movement (knees collapsing in) is caused by a weakness of the hip abductor muscles (of which there are quite a few). Most notably the two muscles you want to focus on are the glute medius and the glute maximus. Both of these muscles play a huge role in knee pain and biomechanics in adolescent athletes. 

While I believe you, and will look into those areas, I have a naive question.  I am interpreting this to mean my son has weak butt muscles, is that right?  What I don't get is how a catcher who sits in the squat position a LOT can have weak butt muscles.  Common sense would say that the catcher has the best butt muscles on the team...why the disconnect from common sense?

He's 13 and grew a lot recently.

CaCO3Girl posted:
Bulldog 19 posted:

Your son's knee valgus movement (knees collapsing in) is caused by a weakness of the hip abductor muscles (of which there are quite a few). Most notably the two muscles you want to focus on are the glute medius and the glute maximus. Both of these muscles play a huge role in knee pain and biomechanics in adolescent athletes. 

While I believe you, and will look into those areas, I have a naive question.  I am interpreting this to mean my son has weak butt muscles, is that right?  What I don't get is how a catcher who sits in the squat position a LOT can have weak butt muscles.  Common sense would say that the catcher has the best butt muscles on the team...why the disconnect from common sense?

When kids are in the growth spurt years the growth cycles with muscles and bones can be out of synch. It can cause discomfort to the point of not being able to play a position or play at all. Eventually one part of the body catches up with the other. At his next doctor's appointment I would ask if there's something he can do or does he have to wait and grow out of the situation.

My son played through O-S and Severs. My daughter never had a problem except tripping over her duck feet. Until her growth caught up with her big feet she looked like a duck peddling down the street on her bike.

CaCO3Girl posted:
Bulldog 19 posted:

Your son's knee valgus movement (knees collapsing in) is caused by a weakness of the hip abductor muscles (of which there are quite a few). Most notably the two muscles you want to focus on are the glute medius and the glute maximus. Both of these muscles play a huge role in knee pain and biomechanics in adolescent athletes. 

While I believe you, and will look into those areas, I have a naive question.  I am interpreting this to mean my son has weak butt muscles, is that right?  What I don't get is how a catcher who sits in the squat position a LOT can have weak butt muscles.  Common sense would say that the catcher has the best butt muscles on the team...why the disconnect from common sense?

No.  You can have strong glutes (butt), yet the hip flexor's & hamstring tightness might not enable you to activate your glutes (butt).   It's all push/pull forged with growth... 

This is why a lot of motivated athletes pursue yoga to prevent tightness & anything locking them up (i.e., hip flexor tightness impeding glute activation) ...

Last edited by Gov

Add Reply

×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×