Arm Conditioning/ Velocity Program

Well, I would say it's an older program with some good stuff in it.  I don't think it goes into enough detail about certain aspects though.

Since it won't cost you anything, take a look at the Driveline 8 week program that you can get from their site.  It is a little more detailed as far as a progression to follow, and has links to videos that explain the various drills.

As for a velocity increase - nobody can honestly say.  Some guys have big improvements quickly, some don't. Some take longer to improve. Some never improve for various reasons.

In a general sense, if you take a player that has never really worked out before and introduce any type of program you are bound to see some improvements.

I think the program you linked is lite on the exercises you can do to strengthen the rotator cuff, but the stretches are pretty good. I've had a torn rotator cuff, and from experience doing some stretches makes the shoulder feel a thousand times better. You can find some more exercises here... Thrower's 10 variation .

Just curious and don't have the answer, but it would be interesting to know how many Major League pitchers have once used weighted balls, either now or in the past.

Knowing that would influence my thinking one way or another.

I don't know about the pro's but more and more colleges are using them. I know my son's old program has used them for years and they historically have the hardest throwers in DIII. (partially this is how they recruit) but I saw pretty dramatic improvements in their pitchers while my son was there. 

For me, the weighted baseball issue is boiled down to this: With all of the $$, research & resources available to MLB to examine the effectiveness balanced vs the risk of these programs, the vast majority have said NO to their use.

Who is the target market for these programs? Developing youth players. Developing youth players will see a spike in velocity by simply existing & aging & eating Captain Crunch cereal. Add a velo program & you can measure & see results with this group. Especially when the youth player does virtually no training.

Give me a MLB roster of pitchers who are fully developed adults who train & throw regularly as they do & add this weighted ball program & show me a spike in velocity. It won't happen. You may see a spike in injury. This is why it is not employed at the level that has the most to gain from the "effectiveness" of these programs (MLB).

Steve A. posted:

For me, the weighted baseball issue is boiled down to this: With all of the $$, research & resources available to MLB to examine the effectiveness balanced vs the risk of these programs, the vast majority have said NO to their use.

Who is the target market for these programs? Developing youth players. Developing youth players will see a spike in velocity by simply existing & aging & eating Captain Crunch cereal. Add a velo program & you can measure & see results with this group. Especially when the youth player does virtually no training.

Give me a MLB roster of pitchers who are fully developed adults who train & throw regularly as they do & add this weighted ball program & show me a spike in velocity. It won't happen. You may see a spike in injury. This is why it is not employed at the level that has the most to gain from the "effectiveness" of these programs (MLB).

Do you have any scientific evidence that Captain Crunch can aid in an increase in velocity?  I ate a whole lot a King Vitamin when I was a kid a saw zero increase.  What about Frosted Maple Bacon Pop Tarts?

2017LHPscrewball posted:

Steve A. posted:

For me, the weighted baseball issue is boiled down to this: With all of the $$, research & resources available to MLB to examine the effectiveness balanced vs the risk of these programs, the vast majority have said NO to their use.

Who is the target market for these programs? Developing youth players. Developing youth players will see a spike in velocity by simply existing & aging & eating Captain Crunch cereal. Add a velo program & you can measure & see results with this group. Especially when the youth player does virtually no training.

Give me a MLB roster of pitchers who are fully developed adults who train & throw regularly as they do & add this weighted ball program & show me a spike in velocity. It won't happen. You may see a spike in injury. This is why it is not employed at the level that has the most to gain from the "effectiveness" of these programs (MLB).

Do you have any scientific evidence that Captain Crunch can aid in an increase in velocity?  I ate a whole lot a King Vitamin when I was a kid a saw zero increase.  What about Frosted Maple Bacon Pop Tarts?

Sorry, good point! I meant Frosted Flakes. They sponsor the LLWS & some of those kids throw gas so it must be factor.....

Okay, i'll divulge the "Secrets to getting your son to 90+mph"

PBJ, Oatmeal, Chicken Tenders, All meat covered in BBQ Sauce, waffle sandwiches (2 legos with butter) and mashed potatoes and leisure peas.

Seriously, i did consider a weighted ball program once thru an instructor near Atlanta. I talked with him and we never went down that path. I think it works and players see gains....im not sure how much is retained over time?

Steve A. posted:

2017LHPscrewball posted:

Steve A. posted:

For me, the weighted baseball issue is boiled down to this: With all of the $$, research & resources available to MLB to examine the effectiveness balanced vs the risk of these programs, the vast majority have said NO to their use.

Who is the target market for these programs? Developing youth players. Developing youth players will see a spike in velocity by simply existing & aging & eating Captain Crunch cereal. Add a velo program & you can measure & see results with this group. Especially when the youth player does virtually no training.

Give me a MLB roster of pitchers who are fully developed adults who train & throw regularly as they do & add this weighted ball program & show me a spike in velocity. It won't happen. You may see a spike in injury. This is why it is not employed at the level that has the most to gain from the "effectiveness" of these programs (MLB).

Do you have any scientific evidence that Captain Crunch can aid in an increase in velocity?  I ate a whole lot a King Vitamin when I was a kid a saw zero increase.  What about Frosted Maple Bacon Pop Tarts?

Sorry, good point! I meant Frosted Flakes. They sponsor the LLWS & some of those kids throw gas so it must be factor.....

The real secret is Cinnamon Toast Crunch, but you have to drink the cinnamon-y milk left in the bowl at the end to see the most benefit.

Regarding the other topic at hand, when you talk of arm conditioning, I would lean pretty heavily towards a long toss program.  I don't really delve into weighted ball programs so I can't speak one way or the other on the effectiveness, but believe in the effectiveness of long toss particularly in the "arm conditioning" realm.

Matt Reiland posted:

Steve A. posted:

2017LHPscrewball posted:

Steve A. posted:

For me, the weighted baseball issue is boiled down to this: With all of the $$, research & resources available to MLB to examine the effectiveness balanced vs the risk of these programs, the vast majority have said NO to their use.

Who is the target market for these programs? Developing youth players. Developing youth players will see a spike in velocity by simply existing & aging & eating Captain Crunch cereal. Add a velo program & you can measure & see results with this group. Especially when the youth player does virtually no training.

Give me a MLB roster of pitchers who are fully developed adults who train & throw regularly as they do & add this weighted ball program & show me a spike in velocity. It won't happen. You may see a spike in injury. This is why it is not employed at the level that has the most to gain from the "effectiveness" of these programs (MLB).

Do you have any scientific evidence that Captain Crunch can aid in an increase in velocity?  I ate a whole lot a King Vitamin when I was a kid a saw zero increase.  What about Frosted Maple Bacon Pop Tarts?

Sorry, good point! I meant Frosted Flakes. They sponsor the LLWS & some of those kids throw gas so it must be factor.....

The real secret is Cinnamon Toast Crunch, but you have to drink the cinnamon-y milk left in the bowl at the end to see the most benefit.

Regarding the other topic at hand, when you talk of arm conditioning, I would lean pretty heavily towards a long toss program.  I don't really delve into weighted ball programs so I can't speak one way or the other on the effectiveness, but believe in the effectiveness of long toss particularly in the "arm conditioning" realm.

Matt,

Agree but am not an advocate of the "extreme long toss" programs. What is your take?

The more folks I speak with the more skeptical I am abt weighted throwing programs _in a vacuum_.

They are usually part of a greater strength, conditioning, long-toss and overall health program. I don't think that throwing a 1 oz heavier and 1oz lighter ball by itself can necessarily help you or harm you.

Driveline is not just a "weighted ball program" per se. It's a carefully crafted strength and conditioning program for athletes who are already at a point in their lives when they are getting bigger and stronger.

If you build out a smart throwing program and include the weighted balls I'll bet it will help.
If you're not careful abt warming up, strengthening the arm and stretching, I'll bet it could cause injury.

Here is another simple one. Have fun and be careful. Your health is important!
http://www.thecompletepitcher....ighted_baseballs.htm

I know you are not supposed to promote your own business on this site, but I just came up with a foolproof idea.  For the low, low price if $199 plus S&H, you can purchase my old bucket of baseballs (approx 40) that come in various weights ranging from around 6oz (probably not regulation size) up to maybe twice that (depending on when it last got rained on).  This offer is only good to the first caller at which point I will begin putting together another bucket and make it available next year.  Have your young pitcher grab a ball and fling it - I'll think maybe I'll trademark it as the "Vari-Weight-Ball" program and make it available only to prepubescent kids and then report on velocity increase once they start shaving.

On a serious note, what it the allowed variance in official baseballs - high school, college or MLB?  A think I once read a variance of only 0.2 oz was allowed but that got me thinking about how much difference the plus/minus 1 oz makes.  When do kids take special care not to start throwing waterlogged ball that might already have that extra 1 oz.  I know my 2017 has a few baseballs that he keeps hidden from his younger brother.

Rob T posted:

Well, I would say it's an older program with some good stuff in it.  I don't think it goes into enough detail about certain aspects though.

Since it won't cost you anything, take a look at the Driveline 8 week program that you can get from their site.  It is a little more detailed as far as a progression to follow, and has links to videos that explain the various drills.

As for a velocity increase - nobody can honestly say.  Some guys have big improvements quickly, some don't. Some take longer to improve. Some never improve for various reasons.

In a general sense, if you take a player that has never really worked out before and introduce any type of program you are bound to see some improvements.

I think the program you linked is lite on the exercises you can do to strengthen the rotator cuff, but the stretches are pretty good. I've had a torn rotator cuff, and from experience doing some stretches makes the shoulder feel a thousand times better. You can find some more exercises here... Thrower's 10 variation .

Would the Driveline 8 week program work for a catcher? I am trying to improve my catching velocity.

Wesleythecacther posted:

Rob T posted:

Well, I would say it's an older program with some good stuff in it.  I don't think it goes into enough detail about certain aspects though.

Since it won't cost you anything, take a look at the Driveline 8 week program that you can get from their site.  It is a little more detailed as far as a progression to follow, and has links to videos that explain the various drills.

As for a velocity increase - nobody can honestly say.  Some guys have big improvements quickly, some don't. Some take longer to improve. Some never improve for various reasons.

In a general sense, if you take a player that has never really worked out before and introduce any type of program you are bound to see some improvements.

I think the program you linked is lite on the exercises you can do to strengthen the rotator cuff, but the stretches are pretty good. I've had a torn rotator cuff, and from experience doing some stretches makes the shoulder feel a thousand times better. You can find some more exercises here... Thrower's 10 variation .

Would the Driveline 8 week program work for a catcher? I am trying to improve my catching velocity.

In theory it should help anyone that throws a ball...  However, the Driveline program is really tailored towards pitchers - and the mechanics they use.  These aren't necessarily the same mechanics used by catchers.

While arm strength is obviously part of the equation, there is a lot more that goes into effective throwing for catchers.  Usually it isn't arm strength that is the issue, but time leaked in other areas - footwork, transfer, stance etc.

If your goal is to simply get the ball from your glove to the bag faster - you can probably achieve quicker results cleaning up your mechanics as a catcher, rather than embarking on a throwing program.

So, yes - I would say it will work to strengthen your arm to some degree- but that may not equate into the results you seek.

If you are interested in some specific throwing mechanics related to the catching position, Austin Wasserman has a pretty good e-book on it. 

Rob T posted:

Wesleythecacther posted:

Rob T posted:

Well, I would say it's an older program with some good stuff in it.  I don't think it goes into enough detail about certain aspects though.

Since it won't cost you anything, take a look at the Driveline 8 week program that you can get from their site.  It is a little more detailed as far as a progression to follow, and has links to videos that explain the various drills.

As for a velocity increase - nobody can honestly say.  Some guys have big improvements quickly, some don't. Some take longer to improve. Some never improve for various reasons.

In a general sense, if you take a player that has never really worked out before and introduce any type of program you are bound to see some improvements.

I think the program you linked is lite on the exercises you can do to strengthen the rotator cuff, but the stretches are pretty good. I've had a torn rotator cuff, and from experience doing some stretches makes the shoulder feel a thousand times better. You can find some more exercises here... Thrower's 10 variation .

Would the Driveline 8 week program work for a catcher? I am trying to improve my catching velocity.

In theory it should help anyone that throws a ball...  However, the Driveline program is really tailored towards pitchers - and the mechanics they use.  These aren't necessarily the same mechanics used by catchers.

While arm strength is obviously part of the equation, there is a lot more that goes into effective throwing for catchers.  Usually it isn't arm strength that is the issue, but time leaked in other areas - footwork, transfer, stance etc.

If your goal is to simply get the ball from your glove to the bag faster - you can probably achieve quicker results cleaning up your mechanics as a catcher, rather than embarking on a throwing program.

So, yes - I would say it will work to strengthen your arm to some degree- but that may not equate into the results you seek.

If you are interested in some specific throwing mechanics related to the catching position, Austin Wasserman has a pretty good e-book on it. 

I definitely think the 8 week program would help Wesley. it is not catcher specific but Wesley's arm is not that strong yet judging from the videos. It is not weak but I don't think he can throw upper 80s from a crowd hop yet. 

BTW I would definitely use Kyle's program instead of the one posted above because of the plyo care drills. 

I only ask that you consider this as a part of the overall growth program: working with an experienced physical therapist who has a track record with baseball players.

He/she can evaluate a program with you as it relates to the specific physical condition of your son. To look solely at the arm may be a mistake. More improvement may be achieved through the building and conditioning of other components in the body, e.g., loosening and building hips that are tight and weak.

And the PT should be able to evaluate the program based on the physical condition of the shoulder. Perhaps a weighted ball program is overkill, and all your son needs is a solid Throwers 10 program.

Please consider working with an experienced PT. If you find one that requires travel, it's probably worthwhile.

Wesleythecacther posted:

Would the Driveline 8 week program work for a catcher? I am trying to improve my catching velocity.

Not sure about the Driveline program, but I can tell you that this one helped my son.

http://www.highlevelthrowing.c...cher-edition-e-book/

Steve A. posted:

For me, the weighted baseball issue is boiled down to this: With all of the $$, research & resources available to MLB to examine the effectiveness balanced vs the risk of these programs, the vast majority have said NO to their use.

Who is the target market for these programs? Developing youth players. Developing youth players will see a spike in velocity by simply existing & aging & eating Captain Crunch cereal. Add a velo program & you can measure & see results with this group. Especially when the youth player does virtually no training.

Give me a MLB roster of pitchers who are fully developed adults who train & throw regularly as they do & add this weighted ball program & show me a spike in velocity. It won't happen. You may see a spike in injury. This is why it is not employed at the level that has the most to gain from the "effectiveness" of these programs (MLB).

This is simply wrong. I work for 5 MLB teams and seven pitchers from one team are currently in Seattle training on the team's dime. The entirety of the Cleveland Indians' minor league teams throw weighted balls; take a look at Goodyear during Spring Training if you don't believe me.

JP Hoornstra wrote about our work with the Dodgers and the results. I've worked for the Astros. You can see verified information in The Arm by Jeff Passan.

Major League pitching coach Brent Strom (and his bullpen coach, Craig Bjornson) are good friends of mine and supporters.

Basically it sounds like you've done zero research into it all before spouting off BS. Maybe consider that next time.

EDIT: By the way, the level that has the most to gain from a weighted ball program is not MLB. It would be their lower-level minor league pitchers to develop tradeable or promotable assets.

EDIT2: Our programs are heavily targeted towards late HS and college/pro arms, not youth pitchers. We train very few youth pitchers. I can't speak for our competition.

Kyle Boddy posted:

This is simply wrong. I work for 5 MLB teams and seven pitchers from one team are currently in Seattle training on the team's dime. The entirety of the Cleveland Indians' minor league teams throw weighted balls; take a look at Goodyear during Spring Training if you don't believe me.

JP Hoornstra wrote about our work with the Dodgers and the results. I've worked for the Astros. You can see verified information in The Arm by Jeff Passan.

Major League pitching coach Brent Strom (and his bullpen coach, Craig Bjornson) are good friends of mine and supporters.

Basically it sounds like you've done zero research into it all before spouting off BS. Maybe consider that next time.

EDIT: By the way, the level that has the most to gain from a weighted ball program is not MLB. It would be their lower-level minor league pitchers to develop tradeable or promotable assets.

EDIT2: Our programs are heavily targeted towards late HS and college/pro arms, not youth pitchers. We train very few youth pitchers. I can't speak for our competition.

What about the Tom House Velocity Plus program - http://velocityplusarmcare.com/

Nolan Ryan and some others seem to be 100% behind this guy, is there anything to it?  I'm not recommending this or anything, just asking if there is anything to it. 

Granted my son is a 12u but his team recently did a 5 week program based on House's and his velocity went up 7 mph .  The lower body worked seemed to really be the key.  I think that for young kids they are using muscles that they have never used/developed before.  Not sure about the older boys probably more about a few mph and arm care.  The program is phenomenal for arm care. I am skeptical about the weighted ball programs but just like TCB heavy balls its something you can do in tight space.     

Personally I love them to do long toss and long toss with a football as much as they can in the off season.  Something about throwing the football that really seems to help.