quote:.I have no idea what you are talking about.......
In all due respect to you, I know you don't......
In all due respect to you, I know you don't......
In all due respect to you, I know you don't......
quote:OF COURSE THEY DO NOT LAND ON THEIR FRONT FOOT AND WAIT....I never said that.....
No, you didn't.......I'm glad you clarified that......
MLB hitters load and unload the body.......Of course, they load on every pitch......However, they begin the unloading process only if they make a conscience decision to swing......
The pitch has to be recognized for the brain to make a decision.......The recognition may be wrong, but it must be made......
You still have not aswered ONE of my questions.......
At what level did you last play?
Toughest pitcher you faced? And Why?
Explain your theory....I did....
Where are you?
I will be at Vandy tomorrow.....
At what level did you last play?
Toughest pitcher you faced? And Why?
Explain your theory....I did....
Where are you?
I will be at Vandy tomorrow.....
LOW, MLB hitters certainly guess, sometimes......Which is a better word than anticipate to me, anyway......
A hitter must recognize what is coming at him.....Location and speed.....Sometimes he will be wrong......But, you can't guess location and speed and if it's not there, don't swing......You can't make a living doing that....
A hitter must recognize what is coming at him.....Location and speed.....Sometimes he will be wrong......But, you can't guess location and speed and if it's not there, don't swing......You can't make a living doing that....
So are you not going to answer my questions.....I spoke w/ Tony Gwynn this past summer about the decision making process and he does not share your opinion....he was fairly successful....what do you think//
LOW, I present my opinion and if someone reading it thinks it makes sense, they can check into what I'm saying.....If not, they can discard what I say......
Rotation in the swing doesn't get a fair shake on discussion boards for the most part......
Rotation in the swing doesn't get a fair shake on discussion boards for the most part......
Last chance....Bulldog...
At what level did you last play?
Toughest pitcher you faced? and why?
At what level did you last play?
Toughest pitcher you faced? and why?
quote:.I spoke w/ Tony Gwynn this past summer about the decision making process and he does not share your opinion....he was fairly successful....what do you think//
LOW, fair enough......I am fairly familiar with Mr. Gwynn's hitting beliefs as he presents them.....He was a very good MLB hitter......I don't believe he understands the MLB swing, though........The reason I say this is because he teaches one way and he swung a different way.....
I've also heard him describe Bonds' swing and he got it wrong......So, IMO, he could do it but he can't teach it......
Here it is.....
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/gallery/bonds/flash.htm
This shows rotation beginning before foot plant........
http://www.youthbaseballcoaching.com/mpg/palmeiro2.mpeg
http://www.youthbaseballcoaching.com/mpg/palmeiro2.mpeg
Doggy,
Let me share your point of view with a real life teaching twist.
Yes all great players rotate into toe touch for many pitch locations. Some plant and block the turn somewhat for pitches up and away. If you want the clips of the same player doing it I can provide.
My main point from teaching players is this...
You must coil the hips during/ before the stride to rotate into toe touch. The later happens when the preswing is correct.
You must transfer weight when you carry the middle out....same thing different language.
SO if you focus on the rotation into foot plant and you think that is a valuable "teach" you might have a miserable coaching session IMO.
If you focus on loading the core with a neg weight shift that is a coiling/ tucking of the rear hip and tell the player to release the back side, drive the rear knee into the ball, drag the rear toe at contact, have the rear foot weightless at contact then you are armed with more good teaching cues.
When you get married one set of terms or when you look at one point like rotation into toe touch then you might miss some move that occurs "up stream " that allowed that to happen.
THere is no holy grail universal term set that makes a kid a great hitter. It is more complicated than that. Do I want all the term sets in my arsenal...yes...but I know you have taught kids that needed a different thought to get going
"I've also heard him describe Bonds' swing and he got it wrong"
I listened and thought so too BUT..when he spoke of pulling the bottom hand through he could mean many things with his cue. When you lead the bottom hand through to past your lead pocket I guarantee you transfered your weight. YOu cannot hit the ball out front and back foot spin. When you stay on your backside as you hinge your knee you tend to release the bat about the belly button. The HR in the bay are pulled meaning Bonds pulled through past his body before the barrel released. We don't know what Tony thought anymore than he would know what carry the middle out would mean. I know he had 8 batting titles and pioneered film study of his personal at bats
"I've also heard him describe Bonds' swing and he got it wrong......So, IMO, he could do it but he can't teach it......"
Time those 6 clips and you break them down and write the script or better yet just flat footed say it in the allotted time where the public gets it for TV. Your defining a guy with 8 batting titles ability to teach from that.
What would people say about him if he only had 7 batting titles?
Let me share your point of view with a real life teaching twist.
Yes all great players rotate into toe touch for many pitch locations. Some plant and block the turn somewhat for pitches up and away. If you want the clips of the same player doing it I can provide.
My main point from teaching players is this...
You must coil the hips during/ before the stride to rotate into toe touch. The later happens when the preswing is correct.
You must transfer weight when you carry the middle out....same thing different language.
SO if you focus on the rotation into foot plant and you think that is a valuable "teach" you might have a miserable coaching session IMO.
If you focus on loading the core with a neg weight shift that is a coiling/ tucking of the rear hip and tell the player to release the back side, drive the rear knee into the ball, drag the rear toe at contact, have the rear foot weightless at contact then you are armed with more good teaching cues.
When you get married one set of terms or when you look at one point like rotation into toe touch then you might miss some move that occurs "up stream " that allowed that to happen.
THere is no holy grail universal term set that makes a kid a great hitter. It is more complicated than that. Do I want all the term sets in my arsenal...yes...but I know you have taught kids that needed a different thought to get going
"I've also heard him describe Bonds' swing and he got it wrong"
I listened and thought so too BUT..when he spoke of pulling the bottom hand through he could mean many things with his cue. When you lead the bottom hand through to past your lead pocket I guarantee you transfered your weight. YOu cannot hit the ball out front and back foot spin. When you stay on your backside as you hinge your knee you tend to release the bat about the belly button. The HR in the bay are pulled meaning Bonds pulled through past his body before the barrel released. We don't know what Tony thought anymore than he would know what carry the middle out would mean. I know he had 8 batting titles and pioneered film study of his personal at bats
"I've also heard him describe Bonds' swing and he got it wrong......So, IMO, he could do it but he can't teach it......"
Time those 6 clips and you break them down and write the script or better yet just flat footed say it in the allotted time where the public gets it for TV. Your defining a guy with 8 batting titles ability to teach from that.
What would people say about him if he only had 7 batting titles?
Thanks LOW337...appreciated the post.
quote:LOW, I present my opinion and if someone reading it thinks it makes sense, they can check into what I'm saying.....If not, they can discard what I say......
Believe what Bluedog is saying is you can go to the source and pay for what I know type of jist or not pay for what I know and/or I will continue to belittle you, talk down to you, and make my pay-per-view judgements from up on high
until you do what I have done and "PAY"-LOLOne thing that is glaringly obvious to all us Bluedog is your evasive tactics involving your avoidance in answering questions about your level of "ACTUAL" experience and why you have so much authority over us ex-pros/scouts.
If you were somebody with creditionals, surely you wouldn't burn bridges with cross-ckers--
If you are just a HS player would advise you to remain anonymous
so we won't be bias toward your arrogant disposition when we come see you and make major decisions about where you might fall in draft order 
Shep Cares
A couple of misconception about the rotational swing. First was the reference to weight on the back foot on the pivot. Actually, the rotational swing enables the hitter to rotate to the point that the hitter comes up on that back toe at finish. Linear people believe that you "throw the hands" at the ball. I know that once Charlie Lau was heard to say it because I heard him. Do you (anyone) see that? I see the hands and the upperbody working as one. I see what happens at foot plant as I posted in another thread:
"Toe open too soon promotes "flying open" or whatever term you want to use instead of staying "on the ball." Perhaps not a big issue with many but with a younger player that pulls off of the ball anyway...
Second answer - an open toe often destroys balance. I state that, in my opinion, it is impossible to keep the front toe closed. However, it opens as the body opens it with torque. JMHO!"
If anyone were to ask Bluedog if the stride initiated has forward movement then I'm certain he will answer yes and I'm certain he will answer that it is very important. I also believe that if you think that rotational hitting is simply what happens with the lower portion of the body during the swing then you're missing the point.
Swingbuster made a great comment when he stated there is no holy grail of terms. In fact, terms are so confusing since they seem to have changed meaning so often that no one understands them.
Perhaps it would be a good idea to list some qualities of each swing! Maybe we've confused this issue so much that we can't come to agreement on what happens in the swing.
Thanks everyone for participating in this thread. Sharing ideas such as this is the BEST WAY TO LEARN. Have a Great Day. BASEBALL STARTS FOR US TOMORROW.
"Toe open too soon promotes "flying open" or whatever term you want to use instead of staying "on the ball." Perhaps not a big issue with many but with a younger player that pulls off of the ball anyway...
Second answer - an open toe often destroys balance. I state that, in my opinion, it is impossible to keep the front toe closed. However, it opens as the body opens it with torque. JMHO!"
If anyone were to ask Bluedog if the stride initiated has forward movement then I'm certain he will answer yes and I'm certain he will answer that it is very important. I also believe that if you think that rotational hitting is simply what happens with the lower portion of the body during the swing then you're missing the point.
Swingbuster made a great comment when he stated there is no holy grail of terms. In fact, terms are so confusing since they seem to have changed meaning so often that no one understands them.
Perhaps it would be a good idea to list some qualities of each swing! Maybe we've confused this issue so much that we can't come to agreement on what happens in the swing.
Thanks everyone for participating in this thread. Sharing ideas such as this is the BEST WAY TO LEARN. Have a Great Day. BASEBALL STARTS FOR US TOMORROW.
Low
Understand one thing here-- Bluedog thinks he has all the answers--except for one thing--you ask him a question and you never get an answer--he will use smokescreens and if you play the right music he might even tap dance
I like your approach--you are up front
Understand one thing here-- Bluedog thinks he has all the answers--except for one thing--you ask him a question and you never get an answer--he will use smokescreens and if you play the right music he might even tap dance
I like your approach--you are up front
quote:Last chance....Bulldog...
At what level did you last play?
Toughest pitcher you faced? and why?
Maybe I can help you with the questions posed to Blue's Clues, LOW,
1. 14 year old Senior League.
2. Jimmy Spradling, because he threw a blazing 60 mph heater.... and he used to take my lunch money!
quote:Explain your theory....I did....
His theory can be purchased for the low low price of only $847....that's seven payments of $121, and if you order in the next ten minutes, we'll even knock of an entire payment for you.
quote:His theory can be purchased for the low low price of only $847....that's seven payments of $121, and if you order in the next ten minutes, we'll even knock of an entire payment for you.
Gloveman,
You have hit the nail on the head, sir.
This board psychology by Doggie is strictly a money thing.
Shep
I'm certainly not taking sides here, because its not necessary, but I don't think its the most important thing for BlueDog (or Linear) to prove that they did it at a certain level.
Now Shep, you have done it at a high level, and I really respect that, but that really doesn't mean you can teach it well. (and it really scares me when you refer to yourself in the 3rd person all the time - sorta like ""the maestro" in Seinfield!!)
Just b/c someone didn't play at a high level doesn't mean they can't teach at a high level.
Having said that, it would be helpful to Doggie's case to at least stand up, be a man, and admit to where he played. It wouldn't mean all that much to me, as it relates to teaching ability, but it certainly does give alot of credibility.
Look at Mike Schmidt - he did it all, but apparantly doesn't really know how he did it!!
Now Shep, you have done it at a high level, and I really respect that, but that really doesn't mean you can teach it well. (and it really scares me when you refer to yourself in the 3rd person all the time - sorta like ""the maestro" in Seinfield!!)
Just b/c someone didn't play at a high level doesn't mean they can't teach at a high level.
Having said that, it would be helpful to Doggie's case to at least stand up, be a man, and admit to where he played. It wouldn't mean all that much to me, as it relates to teaching ability, but it certainly does give alot of credibility.
Look at Mike Schmidt - he did it all, but apparantly doesn't really know how he did it!!
Don’t know about BlueDog, but Linear has played the game. Sometimes I think they’re the same person, sometimes I don’t.
Not many here have ever disagreed with what they (Linear, BlueDog) believe. In fact, most DO agree with much of what they have to say. It’s just no big secret to hear about the importance of (USING THE MIDDLE OF THE BODY). My Grandpa talked about that 50 years ago and he was taught it 50 years before that.
Guess if BlueDog is selling something, that might be the reason for him not giving away info. But, to debate anything, you need at least two people. To simply claim someone doesn’t know what they are talking about, just don’t get anything done.
Linear, opens up at times and tells us what he knows and thinks. Most, really appreciate that approach when it stays somewhat polite. I don’t agree with everything he thinks, but he does THINK and he knows the game. At times it appears he is trying to reinvent things, but he supports his beliefs. Even to the point of showing his somewhat elderly and out of shape, video clips. You gotta appreciate people who go to that much trouble to display their opinion. I ask… How many would be willing to do that? Chris did the same thing and it kind of didn’t help his cause much.
If the goal is simply to sell something I would think case history (examples) and support from the highest levels would help. Results count! Something beside “I used to do this and then I did this and it’s much better and the people who do it the old way are fools”. For those words to mean anything, don’t we need to know WHO used to, but now found something so new and astonishing. Example – If Tony Gwynn made that claim, people would perk up in a hurry!
We need to respect those who have been on the mound or in the batters box at the highest levels. It’s impossible to spend 10-20 years in Professional baseball without learning anything. If we’re going to learn by watching them, aren’t we simply copying what someone else has taught them? Yes, there is the all important natural ability, but does anyone think MLB hitters don’t make adjustments? Does anyone think MLB hitters have the same exact swing they had when they were 14 years old?
Talking to Joe Blake last week, I asked him what his son (Casey Blake) was doing during the off season. Joe said Casey was making some changes in his swing. Guess you could say, he is still learning. Seems kind of odd that someone (not in the game) would have it all figured out!
For those who might not know Casey’s history… He was a 1st team all American at Wichita State. He was an amazing hitter in high school and college. This will be his 11th year in pro ball, played in the Big Leagues with the Blue Jays, Twins, Orioles and has been a starter for the Indians the past three years. A very talented young man who is one of the best students of the game I’ve ever met.
Combining knowledge with application and experience is what’s important. One without the others, falls short!
Not many here have ever disagreed with what they (Linear, BlueDog) believe. In fact, most DO agree with much of what they have to say. It’s just no big secret to hear about the importance of (USING THE MIDDLE OF THE BODY). My Grandpa talked about that 50 years ago and he was taught it 50 years before that.
Guess if BlueDog is selling something, that might be the reason for him not giving away info. But, to debate anything, you need at least two people. To simply claim someone doesn’t know what they are talking about, just don’t get anything done.
Linear, opens up at times and tells us what he knows and thinks. Most, really appreciate that approach when it stays somewhat polite. I don’t agree with everything he thinks, but he does THINK and he knows the game. At times it appears he is trying to reinvent things, but he supports his beliefs. Even to the point of showing his somewhat elderly and out of shape, video clips. You gotta appreciate people who go to that much trouble to display their opinion. I ask… How many would be willing to do that? Chris did the same thing and it kind of didn’t help his cause much.
If the goal is simply to sell something I would think case history (examples) and support from the highest levels would help. Results count! Something beside “I used to do this and then I did this and it’s much better and the people who do it the old way are fools”. For those words to mean anything, don’t we need to know WHO used to, but now found something so new and astonishing. Example – If Tony Gwynn made that claim, people would perk up in a hurry!
We need to respect those who have been on the mound or in the batters box at the highest levels. It’s impossible to spend 10-20 years in Professional baseball without learning anything. If we’re going to learn by watching them, aren’t we simply copying what someone else has taught them? Yes, there is the all important natural ability, but does anyone think MLB hitters don’t make adjustments? Does anyone think MLB hitters have the same exact swing they had when they were 14 years old?
Talking to Joe Blake last week, I asked him what his son (Casey Blake) was doing during the off season. Joe said Casey was making some changes in his swing. Guess you could say, he is still learning. Seems kind of odd that someone (not in the game) would have it all figured out!
For those who might not know Casey’s history… He was a 1st team all American at Wichita State. He was an amazing hitter in high school and college. This will be his 11th year in pro ball, played in the Big Leagues with the Blue Jays, Twins, Orioles and has been a starter for the Indians the past three years. A very talented young man who is one of the best students of the game I’ve ever met.
Combining knowledge with application and experience is what’s important. One without the others, falls short!
goMo, my intent is not really to make a case for most of the coaches on here.....Most all coaches will never improve their beliefs and/or teaching methods when it relates to hitting........They are stuck on, that's the way it's always been done mode.....And, that's the way I learned it mode......
My intent for discussing hitting here is for a parent or player to read what I have to say and decide for themselves if what I say makes sense to them....If it does, then they can search for the answers to how MLB hitters swing and learn for themselves.....Learning this stuff is a journey.....And, there is so much misinformation out there about rotation in the swing that it's hard for people to decide who to listen to and/or learn from.....
So many coaches say do this and don't do that.....Swingbuster is telling me that he knows from teaching experience and I don't.....Yet, he doesn't have a clue how any of my students hit, good or bad....Things like this should tell people who are reading this stuff about the posters.....Actually, I don't have a large ego....I present my case and explain it well......Most around here don't understand what I'm saying because they can't/won't stop crowing and attacking me long enough to read it and try to understand it.....
Swingbuster, I don't mean anything against you....You mean well and do research.....You got stuck on pre-loading and can't get it out of your system.....And, you got on what's his names bad side and took alot of flack from him.....I never got involved in any of that and won't....But, I will say I believe it cost you from learning some stuff about rotation in the swing....
My intent for discussing hitting here is for a parent or player to read what I have to say and decide for themselves if what I say makes sense to them....If it does, then they can search for the answers to how MLB hitters swing and learn for themselves.....Learning this stuff is a journey.....And, there is so much misinformation out there about rotation in the swing that it's hard for people to decide who to listen to and/or learn from.....
So many coaches say do this and don't do that.....Swingbuster is telling me that he knows from teaching experience and I don't.....Yet, he doesn't have a clue how any of my students hit, good or bad....Things like this should tell people who are reading this stuff about the posters.....Actually, I don't have a large ego....I present my case and explain it well......Most around here don't understand what I'm saying because they can't/won't stop crowing and attacking me long enough to read it and try to understand it.....
Swingbuster, I don't mean anything against you....You mean well and do research.....You got stuck on pre-loading and can't get it out of your system.....And, you got on what's his names bad side and took alot of flack from him.....I never got involved in any of that and won't....But, I will say I believe it cost you from learning some stuff about rotation in the swing....
quote:You must learn the physics and bio-mechanics involved from someone who knows this stuff well to get on the right track.....That list of people is very small.....
Okay I give.
BlueDog, I want what you have.......
Who do I call?
Shep
