Hey guys, long time lurker under a different name.
I dont think ive seen this question answered. But im sure it was at some point.
What is the average speed a pitcher throws in high school? 60s? 70s? 80s? 90s?
Thanks
Original Post
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varsity average, my guess would be 79-80-81 somewhere in there
john j
john j
Muj-
You will also find some discussion on this topic under the General Items Forum.
Here is the link.
You will also find some discussion on this topic under the General Items Forum.
Here is the link.
(79,80,81)
Few pitchers are throwing this hard on any high-school team, the best are throwing 85 and there is a big drop off after taht i would say the average is around (72 or 73). Remember average is everyone, I'd say in the eighties if you have any ambition to go anywhere, scouts need to see some velocity. The thinking is that you can teach movement but you can't teach someone to throw that hard. Plus most pitching coaches can add five to ten MPH to your fastball the next stage is getting good movement. So John J your wrong but you are right in the aspect that anyone with a chance of moving on averages about that.
Hope This Helped!!!
P.S.----One of the best pitches in baseball, SPLITTER!!! Throw it, use a softball to stretch ur ligaments then find the grip on the ball for more info just ask!
Few pitchers are throwing this hard on any high-school team, the best are throwing 85 and there is a big drop off after taht i would say the average is around (72 or 73). Remember average is everyone, I'd say in the eighties if you have any ambition to go anywhere, scouts need to see some velocity. The thinking is that you can teach movement but you can't teach someone to throw that hard. Plus most pitching coaches can add five to ten MPH to your fastball the next stage is getting good movement. So John J your wrong but you are right in the aspect that anyone with a chance of moving on averages about that.
Hope This Helped!!!
P.S.----One of the best pitches in baseball, SPLITTER!!! Throw it, use a softball to stretch ur ligaments then find the grip on the ball for more info just ask!
from my experience I would say the average HS pitcher is in the 75 to 80 MPH range
Better than Jeter
you say you cannot teach some one to throw that hard and then you say most pitching coaches can add five to ten MPH to your fast ball
Which is it or am I reading it wrong?
TRhit
Better than Jeter
you say you cannot teach some one to throw that hard and then you say most pitching coaches can add five to ten MPH to your fast ball
Which is it or am I reading it wrong?
TRhit
TR,
75-80 would be what level of HS?
What would you say is the FB range of the elite HS pitchers at the various grades:
Fr =
So =
Ju =
Se =
'07 Crafty Lefties Dad...
75-80 would be what level of HS?
What would you say is the FB range of the elite HS pitchers at the various grades:
Fr =
So =
Ju =
Se =
'07 Crafty Lefties Dad...
CLD
That is for seniors
From my experience the elite pitchers in HS (JR/SR) are all above the 85 MPH mark--yes there are some over 90 but the vast majority are in the 85 to 88 range
At the FR/SO level I have seen arms over the 90 mark but the top notch pitchers at the FR/SO level are in the 80 to 85 range.
JMHO
TRhit
That is for seniors
From my experience the elite pitchers in HS (JR/SR) are all above the 85 MPH mark--yes there are some over 90 but the vast majority are in the 85 to 88 range
At the FR/SO level I have seen arms over the 90 mark but the top notch pitchers at the FR/SO level are in the 80 to 85 range.
JMHO
TRhit
TR,
Thats bringing it!
You say "At the FR/SO level I have seen arms over the 90 mark but the top notch pitchers at the FR/SO level are in the 80 to 85 range"
Is that range the same for lefties. If not, based on your experiences what range would you fit the elite lefties in?
'07 Crafty Lefties Dad...
Thats bringing it!
You say "At the FR/SO level I have seen arms over the 90 mark but the top notch pitchers at the FR/SO level are in the 80 to 85 range"
Is that range the same for lefties. If not, based on your experiences what range would you fit the elite lefties in?
'07 Crafty Lefties Dad...
There is no average high school speed. You would have to know the speed of every pitcher in high school baseball to get the average. No one knows that. The very best of course throw much better than 85. BetterthanJeter, 72-73 for a high school senior is lower than average. Anything less than 72 is very slow, shouldn't be pitching. Dangerous advice about throwing the splitter by BetterthanJeter. Most high school pitchers who are still growing should STAY AWAY from the split. It is very hard on the arm especially the elbow in young pitchers.
Doc
Great advice
TRhit
Great advice
TRhit
'07 crafty lefties dad:
I've seen guys that throw over 90 in their early high school years, but, most of the time, their arms are finished by their senior year in high school. Think of what throwing 90 at 14 or 15 years old can do to an arm. Throwing at that speed has a high risk of messing up undeveloped bone, ligament, tendon, and muscle tissue. It is best to not worry about velocity. Roger Clemens was throwing 81 mph when he graduated high school. Besides, your boy is a lefty and based upon the draft leftie's average velocites were 3-5 miles an hour less than right hander's. This puts the arm velocity he needs to get looked at would have to be around 87-91. this velocity is similar to James Howser who went 2nd round last year. But the key to really getting looked at is having command of at least three of your pitches with some good fastball movement and deceptive off-speed pitches.
Presently, I am a high school junior that just turned 16 and a lefthander, I am consistently 83-88, depending on the rest I have had in between starts, and have been recruited by almost 30 of the top D-1s in the country. So, don't worry about velocity, worry about how well he hits his spots and his movement on his pitches. That will get him further than throwing a ball through a brick wall, but misses the brick wall everytime because he has no control.
P.S. This is the lhp, not the momoflhp.
I've seen guys that throw over 90 in their early high school years, but, most of the time, their arms are finished by their senior year in high school. Think of what throwing 90 at 14 or 15 years old can do to an arm. Throwing at that speed has a high risk of messing up undeveloped bone, ligament, tendon, and muscle tissue. It is best to not worry about velocity. Roger Clemens was throwing 81 mph when he graduated high school. Besides, your boy is a lefty and based upon the draft leftie's average velocites were 3-5 miles an hour less than right hander's. This puts the arm velocity he needs to get looked at would have to be around 87-91. this velocity is similar to James Howser who went 2nd round last year. But the key to really getting looked at is having command of at least three of your pitches with some good fastball movement and deceptive off-speed pitches.
Presently, I am a high school junior that just turned 16 and a lefthander, I am consistently 83-88, depending on the rest I have had in between starts, and have been recruited by almost 30 of the top D-1s in the country. So, don't worry about velocity, worry about how well he hits his spots and his movement on his pitches. That will get him further than throwing a ball through a brick wall, but misses the brick wall everytime because he has no control.
P.S. This is the lhp, not the momoflhp.
Average speed, it depends who holds the gun. It's funny that those who have nothing vested always have a slow gun, or on a kids off day. Also, what is average, 3 innings, 1st inning. Over the coarse of a game, I like TR's 75-80.
quote:
the average is around (72 or 73)
72-73..?? That is the average for 13-14 yo old travel teams in So Calif.. Most of the top 12 yo's throw low 70s... around here.
So I guess it really depends on the area.
The top P on most HS teams in our area throw upper 80s or more. And the slowest is throwing at least 79-80. Plus if you are throwing low 80s you better have great control and some other pitch or you will get hammered.
I estimate the average in So Cal for Varsity pitchers is 84-85. And there are very few if any that can't throw at least 80.
Now for the question of ELITE pitchers at each grade level... Remember San Diego has produced recent Pitchers such as Prior and Zito. But My son's high school runs a summer camp for JR HIGH age and incoming Freshman. Each session they clock every ones throwing velocity from the mound. They keep track of the best players over the last 12-13 years. So for players in the summer between their 8th and 9th grade... The top figure was 84 mph and 12 players that age have thrown 80 mph or better.
I would then estimate adding 2-3 MPH per year from there. With the top few ELITE seniors being able to throw low to mid 90s. Last year SD had Adam Jones throwing 95 and there will be at least a few more this year throwing low 90s
12 Year Olds Throwing 70!!!!
Either there is that much difference between the east and west coast or you have so major Danny Almonte Problems!!!!
The Splitter is a harmless pitch if thrown correct!!!!!! The FORK BALL can harm you arm, the splitter is totally harmless!!!!!
TRHIT you are correct i misspoke, what i meant is to an extent you can't teach a kid to throw hard! You can teach them to throw harder, I throw about 70(not a pitcher) theres no way i'm going to be able to get anywhere near 90 but i know a kid that throws 83 he will be able to get near 90.
Either there is that much difference between the east and west coast or you have so major Danny Almonte Problems!!!!
The Splitter is a harmless pitch if thrown correct!!!!!! The FORK BALL can harm you arm, the splitter is totally harmless!!!!!
TRHIT you are correct i misspoke, what i meant is to an extent you can't teach a kid to throw hard! You can teach them to throw harder, I throw about 70(not a pitcher) theres no way i'm going to be able to get anywhere near 90 but i know a kid that throws 83 he will be able to get near 90.
BETTERTHENJETER...
YES.....
OPPPPS...sorry for the mis-post
At any rate, there is a reason why half of the draft is from California!
Personally, I've had 10 boys at 72 and up, with 3 over 75 at 12 yrs old.
They ALL are 90 plus at 16-17 yr olds. 2 were 90 plus at 14-15!!!
2 of them, probably 3, will end up having been first rounders...1 down, 2 to go...
On the splitter...growth plates are still not closed/hardened at 17 yrs old. Extremely wary of showing an adolescent this pitch...
If you really need this thing, at this early of an age, to get guys out as-using it as your "out pitch"- you are already DONE, you just don't know it yet....sad, even a bit harsh...but probably true.
At any rate, there is a reason why half of the draft is from California!
Personally, I've had 10 boys at 72 and up, with 3 over 75 at 12 yrs old.
They ALL are 90 plus at 16-17 yr olds. 2 were 90 plus at 14-15!!!
2 of them, probably 3, will end up having been first rounders...1 down, 2 to go...
On the splitter...growth plates are still not closed/hardened at 17 yrs old. Extremely wary of showing an adolescent this pitch...
If you really need this thing, at this early of an age, to get guys out as-using it as your "out pitch"- you are already DONE, you just don't know it yet....sad, even a bit harsh...but probably true.
Yes, I didn't know half the draft....wow!!
A 12 year old should not throw this pitch I am talking about a Varstiy Pitcher
as his 4th pitch
fastball,change,curve,split
no???
A 12 year old should not throw this pitch I am talking about a Varstiy Pitcher
as his 4th pitch
fastball,change,curve,split
no???
i don't pitch also so you can't hurt my feelings, i stopped pitching 4 years ago cause i couldn't get guys out forget the need of a splitter i'm just not a mound man....HAHA
Betterthenjeter...
Yeah, the draft, in VERY rough terms, is soething like this: 50% California, the next 50% is then: 40% Texas, 40% Florida(appx!!), and the last 10% of the OTHER 50% is THE REST OF THE USA. This is VERY rough, but not too, too, far from reality.
As for the 'Varsity' pitcher aspect, see the quip as to bone maturation.
Getting back to the original thread...the "national average" for HS ptchers is, according to one of my Stanford Alum budddies 3 days ago, is 78 MPH!
There are quotes elsewhere on the board relating the relative differences of "baseline" from FLA, and Ill. Keep the perspective in focus.
Yeah, the draft, in VERY rough terms, is soething like this: 50% California, the next 50% is then: 40% Texas, 40% Florida(appx!!), and the last 10% of the OTHER 50% is THE REST OF THE USA. This is VERY rough, but not too, too, far from reality.
As for the 'Varsity' pitcher aspect, see the quip as to bone maturation.
Getting back to the original thread...the "national average" for HS ptchers is, according to one of my Stanford Alum budddies 3 days ago, is 78 MPH!
There are quotes elsewhere on the board relating the relative differences of "baseline" from FLA, and Ill. Keep the perspective in focus.
What is quip?
I was under the belief that while california and florida are very big baseball states, the improved skill level was minimum and that Long Island is actually rising and becoming one of the largest scouted areas in the nation.
I was under the belief that while california and florida are very big baseball states, the improved skill level was minimum and that Long Island is actually rising and becoming one of the largest scouted areas in the nation.
Kids in the Northeast are now aslo getting more exposure than they did before--- when I was a kid none of the locals went away to college-- they played theire college baseball at Maine, St Johns, LIU (yes LIU was a regular back then at the CWS) etc
TRhit
TRhit
I'm a Senior in Highschool and I'm constantly throwing between 87 to 90 m.p.h. and I've been clocked with a Jugs radar gun more than once, and over the past 2 seasons
the question is average velocity of a hs senior, not what you throw.
Ek6
I apologize for I forgot to finish before sending, the average speed of a pitcher from my area is roughly 78-83 mph not 70-75 as mentioned by others in this forum, for that is extremly low for many highschool pitchers, as that lower speed is comparable to many pitchers in grades 8, 9 and 10
I apologize for I forgot to finish before sending, the average speed of a pitcher from my area is roughly 78-83 mph not 70-75 as mentioned by others in this forum, for that is extremly low for many highschool pitchers, as that lower speed is comparable to many pitchers in grades 8, 9 and 10
75-80 average for a high school varsity!!! 75-80 is freshman and jv speeds. I would say that the AVERAGE where I am from is 83 or so, but the best varsity usually has a couple kids throwing 85 on up. 14 year olds crush 75 mph.
Bob
Bob
Most of those speeds seem to be way too slow for high school. Our select teams for 13 yr old are 70 - 80. The 14/15 year olds are 75-84. The senior varsity players are 85-90+. I've clocked many of them myself with my Jugs.
P.S.
I suppose though if you averaged out all the total pitchers who can pitch on every team that the counts would go down.
Knowledge is Power! Thank you Mavens and HSBBWEB!
P.S.
I suppose though if you averaged out all the total pitchers who can pitch on every team that the counts would go down.
Knowledge is Power! Thank you Mavens and HSBBWEB!
what's the distance your pitchers are throwing from? is it 56 feet or 60 feet 6 inches? I'm from up north, so I'm not too sure on how you guys down there split the distance, cause up here 13/14 yr olds throw from 56 feet and 15+ is regulation
The 13 yr old's throw on both 55' and 60' 6'' depending on where they play, all others on regulation. The speeds are clocked at release point so distance doesn't come into play as for how fast the pitch is. Distance would only have an effect on the batter that is closer to the pitch.
Knowledge is Power! Thank you Mavens and HSBBWEB!
Knowledge is Power! Thank you Mavens and HSBBWEB!
Thanks for filling me in on that lil tid bit of info Chicks, now maybe you can help me out with something how many seasons do you guys down there play in a year, I've heard like 3 or 4 seasons is that true?
Doc,
They are off Nov and Dec, practice for hs in Jan, start playing again Feb. For high schoolers you have your high school season, then summer select and then fall select. Of course this means no football. For 13 and under they will start select ball practice in Jan and some will start playing tournaments in Feb. We always waited til March and end about 1st of September. What about you?
Knowledge is Power! Thank you Mavens and HSBBWEB!
They are off Nov and Dec, practice for hs in Jan, start playing again Feb. For high schoolers you have your high school season, then summer select and then fall select. Of course this means no football. For 13 and under they will start select ball practice in Jan and some will start playing tournaments in Feb. We always waited til March and end about 1st of September. What about you?
Knowledge is Power! Thank you Mavens and HSBBWEB!
Chicks my season (Junior League ages 19,20,21, but I'm 18, I got called up) begins in April and runs into half way through August, than I take sept/oct and part of novemeber off, and than I begin training mid Nov until April, Since we live in a cold climate we only have the one season which really sucks. I'll be in the Chat room for a while, sinc I've got nothing to do for New Years
Doc,
That sounds great! I saw that you were throwing 87-90, that is super. You are very talented. Just work hard and command that strike zone.
Knowledge is Power! Thank you Mavens and HSBBWEB!
That sounds great! I saw that you were throwing 87-90, that is super. You are very talented. Just work hard and command that strike zone.
Knowledge is Power! Thank you Mavens and HSBBWEB!
Thanks for the support Chicks, and don't worry I'm working my butt off to make sure I get better and to make sure I keep control of the zone
From a good source......I looked at the max pitch speeds for '04s (seniors) at one of PGs 2003 Showcases. Out of 31 pitchers, five threw mid-to-hi 70s, 25 threw somewhere in the 80s, and ONLY ONE hit 90. The average for the group was 83mph. I assume the readings were all taken on the same day with the same gun. If you really want to see what the Joneses are throwing, visit PG and spend time clicking through their numerous Profile Reports - it's fascinating!!
"Son, when you pitch a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know."
"Son, when you pitch a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know."
DOK...If you are 18, why aren't you going to college? If you throw consistently @ 87-90 you need to move. Find a league fast..are you a late HS player? Graduated? RHP or LHP? What about the Canadian teams Ontario Blue Jays...Team Ontario? If you are 18, that is an age that is close to being done if you are not bound for college.
Good Luck!
"If you can imagine it you can create it. If you can dream it, you can become it". William Arthur Ward
"Baseball is Life"
Good Luck!
"If you can imagine it you can create it. If you can dream it, you can become it". William Arthur Ward
"Baseball is Life"
Starzz
I'm turning 18 this Feb,so I'm still in grade 12, I am college bound forsure don't worry about that, I've got some choices for what college I attend. only reason I haven't been apart of team Ontario is because I'm from a very small town.
I'm turning 18 this Feb,so I'm still in grade 12, I am college bound forsure don't worry about that, I've got some choices for what college I attend. only reason I haven't been apart of team Ontario is because I'm from a very small town.
Sounds like you have a good plan....
Good Luck!
"If you can imagine it you can create it. If you can dream it, you can become it". William Arthur Ward
"Baseball is Life"
Good Luck!
"If you can imagine it you can create it. If you can dream it, you can become it". William Arthur Ward
"Baseball is Life"
I really think most of you are thinking of the average pitch speed for the very top teams in your area. My team was 24-3 last year. Most of the season we were #2 in New Jersey behind the team that wound up #8 in the nation (they are also in our conference). Needless to say, it is very good baseball around here. The average speed on our team last year was around 80, and the average on the team ahead of us was probably 84 or so. Now there are also tons of teams that our JV team could probably beat, and their average speeds are somewhere in the mid 70s probably. Remember an average is ALL teams combined.
The future ain't what it used to be.
The future ain't what it used to be.
Yeah well it does depend on where you play, I'm from one of the best pitching areas in pretty much the whole country, nearly every team in my district has a 2 or 3 guys that throws 90-94 range with a few who have touched 97-98. Last night i batted against a guy who was clocked at 96 throughout the whole game and he hit his spots. He is projected in the 3rd round of the draft. And just look up Bryce Harper, that kids a freak of nature
And im from the greater houston area that produced many many MLB pitchers, there were 18 picks in the first 10 rounds that came from our area alone last year because they all threw mega hard
Frosh/Sophomore
70-75 MPH
Junior/Senior
80-85 MPH
70-75 MPH
Junior/Senior
80-85 MPH
quote:Originally posted by COACH COCONUTS:
Yeah, the draft, in VERY rough terms, is soething like this: 50% California, the next 50% is then: 40% Texas, 40% Florida(appx!!), and the last 10% of the OTHER 50% is THE REST OF THE USA. This is VERY rough, but not too, too, far from reality.
3rd pitchers in the pitching line up pitch 70-75
The number 1 and number 2 pitchers pitch 80-90
The number 1 and number 2 pitchers pitch 80-90
Hey guys I normally don’t come in here but just popped in here to check on bats for my son and saw this thread. I can help fill in some gaps for you.
FWIW my son just finished his first year of Varsity ball and I have a stalker and log pitchers for the team. I do not have the book here but will go through it and come back with more details, but from memory this is what I have seen. This is for very competitive Division 1 & 2 baseball in Southern California.
Average FB for team’s number 1 & 2 pitchers: 80-83
(Saw a couple in the 83-85 range)
These are the “league guys” not the Saturday starters.
Numbers 3+ (Saturday starters and relievers): 78-81
There are always anomalies but this was pretty typical. I also saw guys who were effective throwing 72. Our top reliever throws 72 but has the second lowest ERA on the team. He is not a starter but a situational reliever and is very effective 1 time (maybe 2) through the order. Our number 1 is a big lefty (6’4” 220) Sr who normally throws 80-81, but hits his spots and has one of the lowest ERA’s in our league. (around 1.4)
Elite starters: 85-91
These are the few elite guys who end up in the draft or go to the top 25 D1 colleges. After 35 games this season I saw 3 of these guys. (2 on the same team) These are the guys you read about in your local papers, and have scouts at their games. 91 was the top velocity I recorded.
Upcoming underclassmen:
I have seen one sophomore throw 85-87 and there are three in our league are in the 83 area +/- a little. Two are the number 1’s on their team and the other is the number 2.
Hope this helps.
FWIW my son just finished his first year of Varsity ball and I have a stalker and log pitchers for the team. I do not have the book here but will go through it and come back with more details, but from memory this is what I have seen. This is for very competitive Division 1 & 2 baseball in Southern California.
Average FB for team’s number 1 & 2 pitchers: 80-83
(Saw a couple in the 83-85 range)
These are the “league guys” not the Saturday starters.
Numbers 3+ (Saturday starters and relievers): 78-81
There are always anomalies but this was pretty typical. I also saw guys who were effective throwing 72. Our top reliever throws 72 but has the second lowest ERA on the team. He is not a starter but a situational reliever and is very effective 1 time (maybe 2) through the order. Our number 1 is a big lefty (6’4” 220) Sr who normally throws 80-81, but hits his spots and has one of the lowest ERA’s in our league. (around 1.4)
Elite starters: 85-91
These are the few elite guys who end up in the draft or go to the top 25 D1 colleges. After 35 games this season I saw 3 of these guys. (2 on the same team) These are the guys you read about in your local papers, and have scouts at their games. 91 was the top velocity I recorded.
Upcoming underclassmen:
I have seen one sophomore throw 85-87 and there are three in our league are in the 83 area +/- a little. Two are the number 1’s on their team and the other is the number 2.
Hope this helps.
BOF,
We had 2 of the 85-91 types. They totalled 12 innings between them. One, a junior, had control problems due to lack of innings more than anything else and the other, a young senior, was very effective but simply wasn't given a chance. Meanwhile the mid to upper 70s junkballer with a 4.7+ seven inning ERA got about 30 innings and led the team in losses. Guess who's dad coached the head coach's son's little league team?
Their velocities were 86-87 touching 88, with little movement, and 85-87 working with good movement respectively. The velocities were recorded by scouts on Stalkers throwing to hitters in games.
Our #1, a senior, typically threw 83-84 although he dropped off later in the season after being over used. He had the ability to touch 87 although I never saw that in a game. Very good ERA although he gave up a lot of unearned runs due to working backward a lot. Walks tend to lead to unearned runs. Our #2, a senior, topped out at about 81 and threw more sliders than fastballs. Not surprisingly his arm was toast by the end of the season. His results were mediocre at best, especially against stronger hitting teams. The last few games of the season since they hadn't made any effort to get the talented pitchers any innings they used a mid to upper 70s lefty with good control and a decent curve. He was pretty effective and can be expected to be a slightly above average pitcher next year as a senior in a down year for the Marmonte league.
We had 2 of the 85-91 types. They totalled 12 innings between them. One, a junior, had control problems due to lack of innings more than anything else and the other, a young senior, was very effective but simply wasn't given a chance. Meanwhile the mid to upper 70s junkballer with a 4.7+ seven inning ERA got about 30 innings and led the team in losses. Guess who's dad coached the head coach's son's little league team?
Their velocities were 86-87 touching 88, with little movement, and 85-87 working with good movement respectively. The velocities were recorded by scouts on Stalkers throwing to hitters in games.
Our #1, a senior, typically threw 83-84 although he dropped off later in the season after being over used. He had the ability to touch 87 although I never saw that in a game. Very good ERA although he gave up a lot of unearned runs due to working backward a lot. Walks tend to lead to unearned runs. Our #2, a senior, topped out at about 81 and threw more sliders than fastballs. Not surprisingly his arm was toast by the end of the season. His results were mediocre at best, especially against stronger hitting teams. The last few games of the season since they hadn't made any effort to get the talented pitchers any innings they used a mid to upper 70s lefty with good control and a decent curve. He was pretty effective and can be expected to be a slightly above average pitcher next year as a senior in a down year for the Marmonte league.
2 of the upper 80's kids I saw were from a Marmonte team expected to go deep in the playoff's. The other is Valdez, who you know and is expected to go pretty high in the draft next year. I have heard quotes of him throwing 94, but in three games I never saw it. Actually I thought he was more effective in the 85-87 range where is ball had more movement. Regardless he is quite a player.
I don't know if it is just me but there seemed to be a lot fewer high 80's kids this year on the West Coast. I have heard this from several people and observed it also. That said there are a number of dynamite Sophmores coming up in the Pacific View, Marmonte and Channel Leagues that have the potential to be dominant type pitchers in the next two years.
OK guys I'm done posting in your area. For those of you in playoff's GOOD LUCK!
I don't know if it is just me but there seemed to be a lot fewer high 80's kids this year on the West Coast. I have heard this from several people and observed it also. That said there are a number of dynamite Sophmores coming up in the Pacific View, Marmonte and Channel Leagues that have the potential to be dominant type pitchers in the next two years.
OK guys I'm done posting in your area. For those of you in playoff's GOOD LUCK!
i'd say that probably the average Highschool speed (from what i've seen) was around low to mid 80's. I saw one kid throwing upper 80's and a few in high 70's. but mostly the mid 80's.
ok pitchers at high school level throwing low 70's is a joke every pitcher on my team tht is a junior throws high 80's and a junior that was clocked at 94. The same kid clocked at 94 was clocked at 92 as a freshman. You can find him on the USA baseball team along wit 3 other redmond high players. i most agree with jonh j sorry Betterthanjeter.
From the WWBA 16u in Atlanta this year:
15 guys threw 90+ top was 94
17 guys threw 89
23 guys threw 88
35 guys threw 87
44 guys threw 86
51 threw 85
PG listed velocities of 78 or more for this tournament. There were 952 pitchers throwing 78+. I would imagine there were many more throwing below 78, so I can't come up with a total average. The average for this group was 82. Kids who threw 85+ comprised 19% of this group. It would probably be a smaller percentage if they included all velocities.
Keep in mind, this was a 16u tournament which included rising Juniors, Sophmores and possibly Freshmen. There were no Seniors in this tournament, just 2011 graduates and below.
15 guys threw 90+ top was 94
17 guys threw 89
23 guys threw 88
35 guys threw 87
44 guys threw 86
51 threw 85
PG listed velocities of 78 or more for this tournament. There were 952 pitchers throwing 78+. I would imagine there were many more throwing below 78, so I can't come up with a total average. The average for this group was 82. Kids who threw 85+ comprised 19% of this group. It would probably be a smaller percentage if they included all velocities.
Keep in mind, this was a 16u tournament which included rising Juniors, Sophmores and possibly Freshmen. There were no Seniors in this tournament, just 2011 graduates and below.
Take 3 or 4 mph off those speeds to see what speeds they could have some command at. Then realize that these are the elite. So take another 5 mph or so off and you've got average HS pitching velocities for this age group. Add about 3 mph back to get them back up to 18u on average, so in the end take about 5 mph off the average and you've got an average HS velocity of about 77.2 mph as the 151 who were 85 and above don't change the average that much and the overall average is 82.2 mph not including those under 78. You could probably add 1 or 2 mph to get to the average for HS seniors only.
When you discuss anything high school you have to look at the demographics. Is is a baseball hotbed or is it the middle of nowhere? Is the area metro or rural? Is it a large high school or a small one?
My son plays for a large high school in a cold region. The top three pitchers last year threw 82-84. They've gone on to D2 and D3 ball. In our conference if a hitter can't turn on an 82-84 mph fastball he doesn't have a chance against half the regular pitchers. The first place team had three guys 85-88mph. The school is huge.
On the other hand when we went to watch a friend play in the small school classification district final, I think a good 14U travel team would have smoked their pitchers. It looked like 73-77.
My son plays for a large high school in a cold region. The top three pitchers last year threw 82-84. They've gone on to D2 and D3 ball. In our conference if a hitter can't turn on an 82-84 mph fastball he doesn't have a chance against half the regular pitchers. The first place team had three guys 85-88mph. The school is huge.
On the other hand when we went to watch a friend play in the small school classification district final, I think a good 14U travel team would have smoked their pitchers. It looked like 73-77.
Played on an average travel ball team this fall made up of mostly seniors from the. All of our pitchers were above 80. The hardest thrower topped out at 91 and has committed to an average DI. Another guy played HS with is a LHP who throws 82-83 and most DI's were telling him he needs to throw a couple MPH harder before they would make an offer to him.
We have lots of statistics on these type things. Unfgortunately our statistics would be geared towards the higher talent level, rather than over all numbers.
Most recently we completed the PG WWBA Championship in Jupiter a couple weeks ago.
There were 85 teams. After averaging out all the fastball velocities of all the pitchers on each team, we found that...
all but two teams averaged over 80 mph.
75 teams averaged over 82 mph.
64 teams averaged over 83 mph.
59 teams averaged over 84 mph.
51 teams averaged over 85 mph.
41 teams averaged over 86 mph.
25 teams averaged over 87 mph.
13 teams averaged over 88 mph.
8 teams averaged over 89 mph.
5 teams averaged over 90 mph.
2 teams averaged over 91 mph.
Out of all those who pitched in that event... 127 topped out at 90 mph or better. 331 pitchers topped out at 87 or above. This was out of 817 pitchers who threw at that event. About 50 of the 817 pitchers topped out below 80 mph. The average top fastball for every pitcher at the 2009 WWBA in Jupiter was 85.25 mph.
Not sure if this information is interesting to anyone or not?
Most recently we completed the PG WWBA Championship in Jupiter a couple weeks ago.
There were 85 teams. After averaging out all the fastball velocities of all the pitchers on each team, we found that...
all but two teams averaged over 80 mph.
75 teams averaged over 82 mph.
64 teams averaged over 83 mph.
59 teams averaged over 84 mph.
51 teams averaged over 85 mph.
41 teams averaged over 86 mph.
25 teams averaged over 87 mph.
13 teams averaged over 88 mph.
8 teams averaged over 89 mph.
5 teams averaged over 90 mph.
2 teams averaged over 91 mph.
Out of all those who pitched in that event... 127 topped out at 90 mph or better. 331 pitchers topped out at 87 or above. This was out of 817 pitchers who threw at that event. About 50 of the 817 pitchers topped out below 80 mph. The average top fastball for every pitcher at the 2009 WWBA in Jupiter was 85.25 mph.
Not sure if this information is interesting to anyone or not?
Having a son who just entered high School I find this information very interesting. As a pitcher if he wants to think about pitching at the next level or at least helping his cause greatly he knows he has to work hard to try and get his velocity to at least 85mph. Which as a lefty would be really good..not great but good! Especially if he has to go the route of finding a team to add him to their roster so he can attend the Jupiter tournament or beg you to put him on one of the PG teams 
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I live in NH and the upper eschelon of the pitchers probably cruise in the 80-85 range. The "average" varsity starter would probably be in the 75-80 range IMO. Sure the big guys might hit 90 once and a blue moon but for the most part they cruise low to mid 80's. Remember we lose 4 plus months to the winter so you can't long toss year round etc... We have had a few 90 plus pitchers that have made it to the big leagues with Chris Carpenter probably being the best known at the moment. That type of pitcher only shows up in NH a 1/2 dozen times a decade though I'd bet.
redsox8191.. those in the north are NOT at a disadvantage when it comes to pitching. My son grew up in a "cold-weather" area (Washington State)and yes, he long-tossed year-round since age 11 or 12. It can be done. In Bum, Jr.'s case he did it by throwing against a racquetball court wall. Others can rig up a net in their basement and simulate throwing for distance.. either way.. where there is a will, there is a way.
Washington State is #7 in players drafted, and most of them are pitchers. These players play 80-100 games a season, then in the offseason continue to train indoors. In my son's case, he also continued to throw. As for velocity, the average senior is 80-81.. the average h.s. fastball 78.. but as PG Staff once pointed out, what good is it to be "average"?
Washington State is #7 in players drafted, and most of them are pitchers. These players play 80-100 games a season, then in the offseason continue to train indoors. In my son's case, he also continued to throw. As for velocity, the average senior is 80-81.. the average h.s. fastball 78.. but as PG Staff once pointed out, what good is it to be "average"?
Nice post Bum. Average is taking all the pitchers that pitch and then coming up with a number. Of course your elite guys are the 90 plus guys. Then your upper tier guys are your upper 80'guys. Your above average guys are your mid 80's guys and your average would be 80.
I would say from my experience that the average HS varsity pitcher is 77-80. And its the reason when someone pitches at 84-86 everyone swears he is throwing 90.
Its very easy to be average. Just do what everyone else is doing and use them as an example of what you want to be.
I would say from my experience that the average HS varsity pitcher is 77-80. And its the reason when someone pitches at 84-86 everyone swears he is throwing 90.
Its very easy to be average. Just do what everyone else is doing and use them as an example of what you want to be.
My guys all throw 90.... by then it's the 5th or 6th inning and it's time to get a new guy on the mound. 
quote:Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
My guys all throw 90.... by then it's the 5th or 6th inning and it's time to get a new guy on the mound.
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Long Island Rules Baby!!!!!
Long Island Rules Baby!!!!!
You profile says your son ia 12 years of age
I grew up on LI and have a number of LI players on my current team
As much as I respect LI baseballscnene, having a 12 year old player does not give you the priviledge to say "LI Rules Baby"
I grew up on LI and have a number of LI players on my current team
As much as I respect LI baseballscnene, having a 12 year old player does not give you the priviledge to say "LI Rules Baby"
where i live i would say 75-80, only once in a while will someone hit 90
I'm in the low 80's. 85+ is dominant most of the time.
I'd say the average for FL is low to mid 80's.
I'd say the average for FL is low to mid 80's.
In NY 73-75 is pretty average. I've seen even lower by a good amount. You throw 78+ and people start to notice you, fear you even when you're 82+. Maybe that's just the kind of league I'm in but the baseball here ain't good.
I pitch at the varsity level and hav been pitching there since my freshman year and although once in a blue moon you get kids that throw low 90's the average pitch speed in my point of view is 79-82 mph
Based on PG reports and a recent statewide showcase, there are approx. only 20-25 HS kids (not just Srs) in all divisions in our state that max at 85+.
I see low 80s in 5A for the typical starter.
I see low 80s in 5A for the typical starter.
78.
quote:Originally posted by SultanofSwat:
Based on PG reports and a recent statewide showcase, there are approx. only 20-25 HS kids (not just Srs) in all divisions in our state that max at 85+.
I see low 80s in 5A for the typical starter.
I am curious about the report you mentioned. Can you tell me how to look it up?
It seems like at showcases and PG tournaments, you start to feel like if you aren't at 89, you arean't worth looking at!!
It's not a report you can look up. I took the names from the showcase, watched the radar guns in the stands, and looked up the PG report (and speed) for each player.
Ya I think it all depends on your area. I am a freshman and I top out at 74 avg is about 69. The sophmores usually throw high 70s and occasionally reach the 80s the junior throw mid to low 80s anwe've have 2 seniors that throw 90 consecutively and the others seniors throw high to mid 80s im a catcher and the coach clicked every pitcher including me so I know roughly everyone's pitch speed.
I'm in my 50's. I throw just as hard as I did in college. The ball just arrives a lot later now.
I have a 10U select team that all throw 90MPH. No, not really.
80 is your average HS Fastball. I've seen kids throw harder and get hit pretty hard and I've seen kids throw slower that kids just couldn't hit. I've also seen kids throw 90 that usually ended in a one to two hitter and seen kids throw 75 that got shalacked. It's always interesting to watch HS pitchers. Some of them are so good.
This is probably selectively biased toward higher speeds (because generally only better players attend and get measured by PG), but the player profile pages on Perfect Game report where a kid's FB velo stands relative to his class. According to PG, the average velo for the Class of 2014 is 80 mph; for the Class of 2015 it is 79; and for the Class of 2016 it is 76. I suspect if the pool of players being "averaged" was all HS pitchers instead of the subset of HS pitchers who attend and pitch at a PG event, those numbers would be a tick or two lower across the board.
I think any reported velocity needs to be adjusted down 3-5 mph depending if the parent is the one taking the reading. 
My son is a freshman this year and has always thrown hard in league play and actually was the top pitcher (velocity, location, and pitch command) on his travel team. I have never had his speed gauged but will starting this year or maybe next year to target improvements. I just hope someone has a reliable radar gun I can use.
Originally Posted by baseballmania:
I think any reported velocity needs to be adjusted down 3-5 mph depending if the parent is the one taking the reading.
The easiest way to increase high school velocity is post it online.
Originally Posted by baseballmania:
I think any reported velocity needs to be adjusted down 3-5 mph depending if the parent is the one taking the reading.
My son is a freshman this year and has always thrown hard in league play and actually was the top pitcher (velocity, location, and pitch command) on his travel team. I have never had his speed gauged but will starting this year or maybe next year to target improvements. I just hope someone has a reliable radar gun I can use.
Alot of phones have a radar app on them. My kid threw 108 last high school season...i think with growth and stronger arm he will break 115 this year. Woot!
Originally Posted by RJM:
The easiest way to increase high school velocity is post it online.
That's funny!
Originally Posted by monkeyboy:
Originally Posted by baseballmania:
I think any reported velocity needs to be adjusted down 3-5 mph depending if the parent is the one taking the reading.
My son is a freshman this year and has always thrown hard in league play and actually was the top pitcher (velocity, location, and pitch command) on his travel team. I have never had his speed gauged but will starting this year or maybe next year to target improvements. I just hope someone has a reliable radar gun I can use.
Alot of phones have a radar app on them. My kid threw 108 last high school season...i think with growth and stronger arm he will break 115 this year. Woot!
My phone app said HS Jr. was @ 99...then I looked again and notice I had my phone up side down.......haha ha.
Originally Posted by monkeyboy:
Originally Posted by baseballmania:
I think any reported velocity needs to be adjusted down 3-5 mph depending if the parent is the one taking the reading.
Monkeyboy...(btw love the avatar !)
There is a HSBBW theorem that goes way back that has proven to be irrefutable:
A pitcher velocity = "ask dad subtract 7"
Try it you will be amazed how accurate it is.
Cheers.
I have heard a lot of exaggerations from dad's when talking about their sons. However, I've also heard the truth from some. One dad told me last spring that his kid will throw 90 at one of the sunshine showcase events. He topped out at 94!
I guess the harder they throw the less the dad exaggerates. We had a kid that touched 99 mph this year, actually 100 at another event. Using the 7 mph theory, his dad would be claiming his kid throws 107 MPH. (LOL) If a dad told you his kid throws 107 mph, would you subtract 7 MPH and think he throws 100 MPH? Or would you think Dad is an idiot?
Originally Posted by PGStaff:
However, I've also heard the truth from some.
Thank you for saying that PG. I have been trying to say this for years, but am not always listened to because I am a dad. The subtract 7 rule is not universal. There are some of us out there that are reality based and actually tell the truth.
All of you on here are parents. Do every one of you exaggerate about your son's velocity? If someone asked each one of you how hard your son threw, would you add 7 mph to the actual number? I seriously doubt it. This is not a universal truth that you have to subtract 7. In some cases, yes. But not every case.
I think most dads quote what top velocity their son has hit...not what they actually average...there can be a big disparity. Mine has hit 92 or 93 but averages around 87 or 88...big difference. But if i went around telling everyone mine pitched 93 while i guess technically the truth it wouldn't be the whole story. Rose colored glasses are great but we have to keep it in perspective. While my sons top velocity may provide a glimpse of his capabilities the reality is is average velocity is much lower and we need to work if we have an eye on pitching beyond HS.
PG's data says the average is 80.
Originally Posted by monkeyboy:
I think most dads quote what top velocity their son has hit...not what they actually average...there can be a big disparity. Mine has hit 92 or 93 but averages around 87 or 88...big difference. But if i went around telling everyone mine pitched 93 while i guess technically the truth it wouldn't be the whole story. Rose colored glasses are great but we have to keep it in perspective. While my sons top velocity may provide a glimpse of his capabilities the reality is is average velocity is much lower and we need to work if we have an eye on pitching beyond HS.
But you're being honest. I don't think there's anything wrong with if someone asked you what your son throws, you responded with - He tops out at 93. You can add that he usually sits at 87-88, but you wouldn't be lying if you said he tops out at 93. The way I see the subtract 7 thing is if someone is asked how hard does their son throw and the kid tops out at 84, but the dad says he throws 91.
Many dads asked me how hard my son threw in h.s. I always told them the truth and, of course, they'd come back saying their kid threw that or harder. Of course, I knew it was nonsense.
I don't worry about it anymore because all of those dads and their players have disappeared.
Tell the truth about velocity. You don't want some college or pro scout to show up thinking your son is tossing 89 when he's really at 80. If your son takes a sudden jump thereafter it may be like the boy who cried wolf.
My son is a sophomore in HS. He throws an ocassional bullpen and maybe an innning here or there on V. I do not see him as a pitcher, he is only 5'9". People say he throws very hard and are always asking me what he has been gunned at. My answer, no idea and unless he is touching 90 I really don't care.
my son is similar in size and hit 90 this Fall. While Most pitchers r bigger guys it's not always the case. Does he want to pitch in HS and beyond? If he goes to a showcase he will get a velocity number. It's only part of pitching but a big one. The number gets their attention, but he has to have more than that-location, and good offspeed pitches. What it comes down to is not the size of the pitcher but how the ball comes across the plate.
I never exaggerate my sons Velo, because it can be easily checked on the PG Web Site, and I don't want to look like an idiot. I also like people to trust what I say, and if you aren't truthful about sons' abilities, people won't believe value your opinions.
Originally Posted by playball2011:
my son is similar in size and hit 90 this Fall. While Most pitchers r bigger guys it's not always the case. Does he want to pitch in HS and beyond? If he goes to a showcase he will get a velocity number. It's only part of pitching but a big one. The number gets their attention, but he has to have more than that-location, and good offspeed pitches. What it comes down to is not the size of the pitcher but how the ball comes across the plate.
Yes I hear you, size is not the only factor but it does matter more for RHP when it comes to recruiting. He can take it or leave it as far as pitching, but would do so if asked. He would rather be a position player if given the choice.
Amen bballman and rynoattack. I don't exaggerate my son's velocity for the same reasons. Plus I keep score in iScore with a radar gun (to accurately enter speeds, and hopefully accurately peg pitch types and locations) and anybody around me can see what the radar says! LOL...
Bum has been saying for years that the average speed for HSV pitching is 78, and that jibes pretty darn well with PG data. I do believe more parents exaggerate than don't, and very often somebody will tell me their son throws "mid-80s" and they rarely break 80 on the gun. The "rule" discussed here is probably a decent rule of thumb, but most aren't dumb enough to exaggerate quite THAT much to somebody holding a radar gun! Though they do still exaggerate (most, not all).
BTW, I do agree that an accurate picture can't be painted with only reporting peak velocity. I almost always report peak + a "sits at" range, whether for my kid or anybody else's.
Don't get me wrong everyone. I know there are people who exaggerate their kid's velocity. I've seen it myself. It just personally bothers me when the generalization is made - with a smirk - because I don't do that. And I know there are others, I'm sure most on this board, who don't either. Just kind of a bug-a-boo I've got.
Now that we have solved that lets talk about parents and POP time exaggerations.
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Originally Posted by monkeyboy:
Now that we have solved that lets talk about parents and POP time exaggerations.
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Amen to that, brother! Not only do you have the parental exaggeration factor, but even when the time is correctly reported, you have the "catcher fudge factor" where the kid is practically standing before he even receives the ball! Not sure I trust any POP time that isn't recorded during a game....
That's why I always ask if it is a game pop time or was a during a clinic or showcase time. Both are useful information, with real game time usually a little slower.
Exaggeration just sets the kid up for failure. Others become quickly disillusioned when a player and his abilities are exaggerated. We had a dad on our travel team that would over hype his son, pimp him out to all sorts of other travel teams, only to have those travel teams quickly become disappointed with what they actually saw this player was able to do. He was quite a player at the younger ages, but was not projectable, and sure enough, did not keep up with the others as they grew. I am sure that exaggeration of abilities would be no different with college coaches, scouts, etc. Just isn't fair to the kid, to exaggerate his abilities. Will come back to bite you.
I think if my son topped out at 90 I could say he has touched 90. I don't have to see consistent 90 mph, to know 90 is something possible for that pitcher. Sure, the consistent 90 is better, but the one time 90 is very good.
also, from past experience I think some parents get confused rather than fibbing. We once had a dad complain about the top velocity we reported for his son. He claimed he saw our gun read 93 mph. Actually he did see that, but it was definitely the velocity off the bat. Seeing that we record every pitch, we explained that his son's fastball ranged from 82 to 85 and topped at 86 on one pitch. When this happens a pitch doesn't out of nowhere throw one 93. But dad saw it and thought his son threw one 93. BTW, this is something that happens more than you would think.
also, sometimes parents will ask someone with a radar gun what velocity they got on their son. This information is not always accurate, sometimes they give MPH of a different pitcher. Sometimes they just blurt out a number so they don't have to look it up. And sometimes the number is actually different than what we got.
Point is that parents are not always exaggerating. Sometimes they're just misinformed.
Of course the brand of the gun can misrepresent how fast\slow velocity is as well.
That's insane that parents would want a measurement that they know their sons could not match again. Then again, I've been around the mom or dad that thought Jr was then next Nolan Ryan (poor folks).
To defend some (not all) of the oft maligned Dads...
Most of the 'exaggerations' come from ignorance and confusion. Idle bystanders and some posters see cruising speed, and Dad/Son/Scout is interested in max speed. Ex. you see a kid throwing 80-83 in a HS start, and Dad says he throws 87. Bystander thinks 'Dad radar'.
Also, PG does not always show a kid's max speed today. Ex. a kid may have pitched at PG a year ago, and is pitching faster today. Also, some kids are retarded (ahem), and pitch slower in their only PG tournament. Etc.
As we are in HS season, any update for this thread? What is the average pitching speed for high school? Please identify your area of the country.
I've seen the AVERAGE JV be around 72-74, Varsity around 82-84 (South East).
I'd say average V speed I've seen is maybe 78-80. A few in the mid-80s, a few mid-70s, so quite a spread. Of course, this is highly anecdotal.
I was sitting behind my son and other pitchers charting a game. occasionally the radar gun will give a goofy reading, after a pitch the gun read 142 mph... the boys were joking about it and a man sitting a few seats beside me was emphatic that there is no way that kid is throwing 142. the boys showed him the radar gun reading, they told him the gun is never wrong.
It was fun for a few minutes!
Those are probably pretty close. I think around Chicagoland Soph is 73-78 Varsity is low 80's. I think this year with new pitching rules we are seeing more pitchers and the average will probably skew lower for all levels.
I've been to 4 games....one of the top guys in our area was 85-86. Our top guy is 80-81 and the other guys I've seen have been anywhere from the upper 60's to low 70's
Average cruising speed is probably mid 70s but the players who get to the next level throw much harder.
Coaches are also prone to stretching truth. Our coach told our kids a guy on the rival team was throwing 93. Our kids were not excited about facing him. We saw the kid pitching against another team in a tourney. A coach from the college he has signed with was there watching him with the gun. Kid sat 87 and hit 89 a few times. I made sure our kids heard the gun readings. It took a bit of mystique away from the kid who had signed with a SEC school.
Not that it mattered. When we faced him he 3 hit us with 7 Ks over 8 innings. However, our pitcher who sits 83-84 matched him over those 8 innings. Giving up 3 hits with 2 Ks. It was 1-1 after 8. Both pitchers reached the pitch count limit of 120 on the last batter of the 8th. Great pitching duel.
Keep in mind that a pitcher's velocity may change 4-5 mph depending on the outing. My son had a game his senior year of HS where he hit 90 on his 90th pitch of the game. Other games he was 86-87. Season opener of his college season this year he went 91-90-91 the first 3 pitches of the game and hit 92 for the first time. He was pitching in front of 6800 people and was pretty pumped up. He has been 88-89 the rest of the year.
JV Game the other night, opposing pitcher was OPPOSING! 6'8", lanky, looked like he could throw 100! Was LUCKY if he hit 60! You just never can tell...
Dominik85 posted:Average cruising speed is probably mid 70s but the players who get to the next level throw much harder.
There's no way the average high school senior speed is mid 70's. Mid 70's would be the slowest senior speeds at the smallest high schools. The average is going to vary based on school size and quality of program. A senior would average about 80. In a large classisfication high school seniors probably average 83-85. Given my son was on a first place team they almost always saw the other team's ace. They saw nothing but 84 or better.
Buckeye 2015 posted:I've been to 4 games....one of the top guys in our area was 85-86. Our top guy is 80-81 and the other guys I've seen have been anywhere from the upper 60's to low 70's
Once again I think the term "average" makes this a little difficult. Maybe the better metric might be a school's #1 pitcher with both max and sitting speeds. Our team has a pretty wide range and I'd guess the "average" is around mid-70's, but #1 is more like mid-80's. Did face a kid who maxed out at 97, but he is an outlier. That said, many of the larger schools around here have a kid or two throwing 90+ - may not be their #1 starter and may or may not be effective as my kid swears he can hit just about anybody as long as they throw it perfectly straight.
RJM posted:Dominik85 posted:Average cruising speed is probably mid 70s but the players who get to the next level throw much harder.
There's no way the average high school senior speed is mid 70's. Mid 70's would be the slowest senior speeds at the smallest high schools. The average is going to vary based on school size and quality of program. A senior would average about 80. In a large classisfication high school seniors probably average 83-85. Given my son was on a first place team they almost always saw the other team's ace. They saw nothing but 84 or better.
Agree as well. We are a larger NW Illinois school and most of what I've seen lately, are numbers are up. 80's or better. Our team was just gunned this week by PBR. Have 2 guys topping 90/91 and one at 89. Rest pretty much low/mid 80's at worst. Have one kid in our conference who was one of the hardest throwers at Jupiter last year. BTW the 2 guys at 90, one is a soph the other a junior.
We are a 4A (out of 6A-being the biggest) school in AZ (Phx metro).
Seen 95 at the top end & 78 at the low end (FB's) with the average or norm around 82-86. The kid that threw 95 committed to LSU as a Soph (RHP 6'3" and a few over 200lbs). He's also hit about 5 bombs this year
I would guess that the average high school varsity pitcher nationwide is throwing upper 70's.... That is factoring big schools/tiny schools, everything.... The median/average is of course going to be below the top flight pitchers
Here's some data: according to PG, the average FB velocity at its tournaments and showcases during calendar year 2016 by a pitcher in the class of 2017 was 81 mph. That's probably a fairly good estimate for the average velocity by a senior. On the one hand, sure, there were some non-pitchers throwing at PG events. OTOH, probably the bottom third or bottom half of HS baseball players would never even consider playing in a PG event.
So I agree with RJM's estimate of 80-ish.
2019Dad posted:Here's some data: according to PG, the average FB velocity at its tournaments and showcases during calendar year 2016 by a pitcher in the class of 2017 was 81 mph. That's probably a fairly good estimate for the average velocity by a senior. On the one hand, sure, there were some non-pitchers throwing at PG events. OTOH, probably the bottom third or bottom half of HS baseball players would never even consider playing in a PG event.
So I agree with RJM's estimate of 80-ish.
Just half of high school pitchers don't pitch in PG events? I gotta think it is much more than half. Possibly 75% of high school pitchers don't pitch in Perfect Game events would be my guess. There are a heckuva lot of high schools in the USA!
I coach JV at a 3-A high school (1200 kids). Over the past few years one thing I have enjoyed doing is after my JV game is concluded I go up to the press box and watch the varsity game. I often have my radar gun with me and discreetly take readings during the game.
I can confidently say the average high school pitcher that I see tops out somewhere between 72 and 78. Sophomore's playing varsity tend to be the 72 to 74 range and juniors and seniors anywhere from 75 to 78. It is a very rare occasion that I see any velocity 80 or higher.
But once in a while I will see a kid hitting 85. And I can guarantee you that is a kid who puts a lot of time in, studies the game, and works very hard to hit that number. Most of our kids where I teach and coach do not play year around. They are 3 to 6 months players at most. That being HS season, then Legion ball then put the glove away at the end of July and not take it out again until high school tryouts next spring.
#1 Assistant Coach posted:I coach JV at a 3-A high school (1200 kids). Over the past few years one thing I have enjoyed doing is after my JV game is concluded I go up to the press box and watch the varsity game. I often have my radar gun with me and discreetly take readings during the game.
I can confidently say the average high school pitcher that I see tops out somewhere between 72 and 78. Sophomore's playing varsity tend to be the 72 to 74 range and juniors and seniors anywhere from 75 to 78. It is a very rare occasion that I see any velocity 80 or higher.
But once in a while I will see a kid hitting 85. And I can guarantee you that is a kid who puts a lot of time in, studies the game, and works very hard to hit that number. Most of our kids where I teach and coach do not play year around. They are 3 to 6 months players at most. That being HS season, then Legion ball then put the glove away at the end of July and not take it out again until high school tryouts next spring.
Do you think the shorter baseball season has any effect on the velo? I have to say it sounds on the low side.
I clock speeds for my kid's team. Our team personally has two Jr.s who rarely break 76, and are mostly 72-74. A sophomore who is mostly low 70s up to 78. A senior who will average 75 or so but can touch 81. A sophomore who struggles to break 70, and is a curve ball specialist. A Jr. who is 77-78. And a Jr. who is 79-81 and can touch 83.
Other teams will regularly throw guys at us who are low to mid 70s. We've seen about 6 guys who could get it into the 80s including 3 or 4 who could hump mid to upper 80s. Guys who can fling mid 80s, even low 80s are not a dime-a-dozen in high school.
Different world. Son's school varsity has one starter that sits 88-89 and has touched 91. Another that sits mid 80's and touches 88-89. JV team has three freshman over 80, one who touched 85. Leader in District has 3 kids who have touched 90. Another school has two. Third school has one D1 commit that has touched 94, another that is at 87-88.
These velocities are from their perfect game profiles or me peeking over someone's shoulder at their stalker.
CaCO3Girl posted:#1 Assistant Coach posted:I coach JV at a 3-A high school (1200 kids). Over the past few years one thing I have enjoyed doing is after my JV game is concluded I go up to the press box and watch the varsity game. I often have my radar gun with me and discreetly take readings during the game.
I can confidently say the average high school pitcher that I see tops out somewhere between 72 and 78. Sophomore's playing varsity tend to be the 72 to 74 range and juniors and seniors anywhere from 75 to 78. It is a very rare occasion that I see any velocity 80 or higher.
But once in a while I will see a kid hitting 85. And I can guarantee you that is a kid who puts a lot of time in, studies the game, and works very hard to hit that number. Most of our kids where I teach and coach do not play year around. They are 3 to 6 months players at most. That being HS season, then Legion ball then put the glove away at the end of July and not take it out again until high school tryouts next spring.
Do you think the shorter baseball season has any effect on the velo? I have to say it sounds on the low side.
The shorter baseball season definitely has an effect. But it is a self-imposed shorter baseball season due to distractions here like surfing, fishing, hunting, or simply partying at the beach. I believe that those types of distractions are why our county, located in the Outer Banks, always struggles to produce college bound athletes. In our entire baseball program of 40 players currently on varsity and JV, 2 have played PG events. That's a bumper crop this year! I'd say most years we have zero kids with PG profiles.
That being said, my high school baseball program has produced one first round draft pick in the last 10-years who was a starter in last fall's World Series. And our county arch rival also produced a #1 pick (#1 PICK) a "few" years ago when he was drafted by the Yankees out of high school with a record signing bonus. I'm sure some of you will remember him or remember hearing on the radio that his career had come to an end.
It goes without saying that neither of these two players were distracted by the beach and surfing! They were "down east" coastal country boys who could flat out play ball. Cut from the same cloth as fellow Tar Heel staters Mad-Bum and Josh Hamilton.
And for the record, they were were both 90+ off the mound in HS.
Fascinating story here about the rise, and fall, of one of our county legends Brien Taylor:
http://www.espn.com/new-york/m...pitcher-brien-taylor
I think we are between Go44Dad's world and the 70's world. Our top 2 pitchers this year are mid 80's, but the rest are slower. In league, the toughest guy we've faced sits only around 81-82, but he has great movement and he really paints. Second toughest has been clocked over 90 at PG events but word is that he has fallen off some. But we also see plenty of guys in the 70's, usually throwing nothing but junk. They can be very effective, especially with a generous umpire. Out of league the team gets to face some top talent. Last year a potential first rounder no-hit us for 5 innings, getting up to 97-98. He's a Friday night starter at a D1 now. At our next game we're likely to see a guy who is ranked in the top 100 recruits by Baseball America. PG has him topping out at 93, but supposedly he's been up to 97 this spring.
This year: two top FB speeds for Varsity are 85, and 87, both by seniors. One is a midwest D2 recruit....
Last year: two top FB speeds were 95 and 89 by two D1 recruits, one a top recruit one of the top NCAA ranked schools (top 5 currently).
Other recruit was recruited by a mid D1 academic: coach didn't like his attitude and he was cut after the first 5 weeks.
Interesting thread dating back to 2003. Seems velocity hasn't changed much over the 14 yrs...
As the dad of a 2019 pitcher, I am finding judging velocity by eye is very deceiving. Even while watching a HS pitcher when he is being gunned I am off from pitch to pitch. Say a kid is living around 82. The next pitch looks hard and you check the gun and it's 80. Than the next pitch looks soft and you check the gun and it's 83. I have come to the conclusion until I see it on a gun I have no idea how hard someone is throwing.
I count the number of radar guns in the stands. Anything over 2 means the guy is throwing gas.
real green posted:I have come to the conclusion until I see it on a gun I have no idea how hard someone is throwing.
Exactly. I have had a gun for years, and nobody can guess it from pitch to pitch without a gun.
Loud pops into the mitt, 4S vs 2S, high pitch vs low pitch, swing hard or not, grunting, easy action vs rushed, 'wow' from the stands, all contribute to bad guesses.
SultanofSwat posted:real green posted:I have come to the conclusion until I see it on a gun I have no idea how hard someone is throwing.
Exactly. I have had a gun for years, and nobody can guess it from pitch to pitch without a gun.
Loud pops into the mitt, 4S vs 2S, high pitch vs low pitch, swing hard or not, grunting, easy action vs rushed, 'wow' from the stands, all contribute to bad guesses.
All that, and also how far you are from the plate. A field with 60 feet behind the catcher vs a field with 15 feet behind the catcher -- at the latter it will seem a lot faster.
My guess is sitting high 70's to mid 80's based on our the pitchers we had who were not our starters over the 4 years my son attended his 6-A school.
92,91,91,91,90 LHP,90,90,88 LHP,88,87 LHP, 85 LHP, 84,84,82 LHP...Top recorded velo's of the pitchers in our league who had the ball in their hands in meaningful games this past season or will have the ball next season...most sat 3-4 MPH below top recorded...