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8 replies

Balk on pick off

EH Emanski's Heroes1,000+ posts
Hey guys, I wanted to get a clarification from a situation that came up a few days ago. We had a runner on first who took off to steal too early...righty pitcher is set, starts his delivery to home plate, then turns and throws to first. Umpire calls balk, but the throw is wild and our runner makes it to third.

Once play is over, ump sends our runner back to second. I ask the ump if we get to take the result of the play instead of the balk. He says no, that's only the case if the pitch is delivered to the plate. (Please note that in this case I was discussing the issue with the ump, not arguing because I didn't know the rule well enough to argue anyway).

After going back to look it up, it seems that what should have happened is this: play continues with runner running, first baseman chasing the ball. If the runner is thrown out going in to second, he gets to stay there because that's where the balk would have put him. However, any advance/attempt to advance beyond 2nd is a live play and if he gets thrown out then the offense can NOT go back and take the balk. Additionally, I would assume that if he goes beyond 2nd and gets thrown out trying to get back to 2nd, then he is out.

So in conclusion, I think my runner should have been allowed to stay at 3rd, but I didn't know the rule any more than the ump. Is this correct, or am I missing something?
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F 3FingeredGlove1,000+ posts
No.

In FED, the ball is immediately dead when a balk is declared. (2-27-2) Even if the pitcher delivers to the plate, there is no pitch.

In OBR, the ball is dead unless the batter reaches first safely, and all other runners advance one base, in which case the balk is ignored. (8.05 Penalty)

In your situation, no pitch was made, so under either rule set, the balk is simply enforced.

Note that the coach never has any sort of option, unlike catcher's interference.
M mrumpiresir10+ posts
In FED, the ball is immediately dead. In OBR, the ball remains live if runners are advancing. See 8.05 APPROVED RULING: "In cases where a pitcher balks and throws wild, either to a base or to home plate, a runner or runners may advance beyond the base to which he is entitled at his own risk."

So in the OP, according to FED, the ball is dead and runner remains at second base. In OBR, the runner would be allowed to remain at third.
Last edited by mrumpiresir
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by mrumpiresir:
In FED, the ball is immediately dead. In OBR, the ball remains live if runners are advancing. See 8.05 APPROVED RULING: "In cases where a pitcher balks and throws wild, either to a base or to home plate, a runner or runners may advance beyond the base to which he is entitled at his own risk."

So in the OP, according to FED, the ball is dead and runner remains at second base. In OBR, the runner would be allowed to remain at third.


Incorrect. Since the batter did not advance to first the balk is enforced under OBR. Runner is awarded second.
Last edited by Jimmy03
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by mrumpiresir:
Jimmy, If what you say is true, then the approved ruling could never take effect when a pitcher balks and throws to first.

Give me a situation where the pitcher balks, throws wildly to first and the BR advances.


The approved ruling can always be applied. Throwing to first has nothing to do with it.

OBR 8.05
PENALTY: The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls,a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

I see the confusion. I stopped reading the OP too soon and didn't notice a detail. My apologies. That was inexcusable. Try this:

"In cases where a pitcher balks and throws wild, either to a base or to home plate, a runner or runners may advance beyond the base to which he is entitled at his own risk."
Last edited by Jimmy03
M mrumpiresir10+ posts
quote:
"In cases where a pitcher balks and throws wild, either to a base or to home plate, a runner or runners may advance beyond the base to which he is entitled at his own risk."


This confused me a bit when I first read it so I asked one of the big dogs in our association who used the exact scenario in the OP to explain it. That made sense to me so that is why I think the runner could stay at third.
Last edited by mrumpiresir
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by mrumpiresir:
quote:
"In cases where a pitcher balks and throws wild, either to a base or to home plate, a runner or runners may advance beyond the base to which he is entitled at his own risk."


This confused me a bit when I first read it so I asked one of the big dogs in our association who used the exact scenario in the OP to explain it. That made sense to me so that is why I think the runner could stay at third.


That's why I apologized. I didn't read the OP accurately, and since it frustrates me when others do that, I am both embarrassed and apologetic.

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