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16 replies

Baseline question

D Doughnutman1,000+ posts
I know this has been brought up a few times(many) but I have a question. runner coming in to score from third. Out by 15 feet. He keeps coming and the catcher comes out to get him. Runner fakes inside, then cuts back to the outside and avoids the tag. Runners feet never left the dirt cut out but there was some leaning. The runner started by running straight down the line on a steal attempt of home. How much leeway does the runner get. The catcher missed him by a foot and was falling into the infield as the runner got by. Ump called him safe and the other team got so mad it left the playing field. There were a few other issues with the umps that day. We thought it was pretty funny since the runner was ours.


Forgot to add. I know it was a HTBT kind of situation but what is the basic guideline on running out of the baseline?
Hustle never has a bad day.
Last edited {1}
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coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
I had a umpire explain to me that his rule of thumb for the 3' is if the fielder makes one step and then leans full extension then the runner is out of his line.

So in this case the catcher is set up and the runner is coming directly at him. So now if he veers one way and the catcher steps and leans full extension and still misses the tag then the runner is out.
D dash_riprock1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by coach2709:
I had a umpire explain to me that his rule of thumb for the 3' is if the fielder makes one step and then leans full extension then the runner is out of his line.

So in this case the catcher is set up and the runner is coming directly at him. So now if he veers one way and the catcher steps and leans full extension and still misses the tag then the runner is out.

As you describe it, I have an out.
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by dash_riprock:
quote:
Originally posted by coach2709:
I had a umpire explain to me that his rule of thumb for the 3' is if the fielder makes one step and then leans full extension then the runner is out of his line.

So in this case the catcher is set up and the runner is coming directly at him. So now if he veers one way and the catcher steps and leans full extension and still misses the tag then the runner is out.

As you describe it, I have an out.


I could see a safe call.

Runner comes in straight. Just before reaching catcher he veers two to three feet to his left, and when catcher reacts, he veers back three feet to his right.

Catcher lunges and misses tag.

Safe.
D Doughnutman1,000+ posts
Jimmy had it right on the description. Runner juked one way, catcher went for it and then the runner went the other way. Stayed within three feet of the baseline IMO but used the three feet on each side. Just curious if by going to the edge(3 feet) one direction, are you still allowed to go to the other edge(3 more feet, 6 in total but never more than 3 feet from the estalished baseline)?
D dash_riprock1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy03:
quote:
Originally posted by dash_riprock:
quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy03:
The runner is allowed 3' in either direction from his baseline which he establishes as a straight line to the bag from his position when a play on him begins.

Change play to tag attempt.


That's a play.

Yes it is, but not all plays are tag attempts, and there must be a tag attempt to establish a baseline.
D dash_riprock1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Doughnutman:
Jimmy had it right on the description. Runner juked one way, catcher went for it and then the runner went the other way. Stayed within three feet of the baseline IMO but used the three feet on each side. Just curious if by going to the edge(3 feet) one direction, are you still allowed to go to the other edge(3 more feet, 6 in total but never more than 3 feet from the established baseline)?

Yes.

Also, if a runner reverses course, his baseline disappears (he is now headed toward a different base). His new baseline is not established until another tag attempt is made on him. So in a protracted rundown (heaven forbid), it is quite possible for a runner to be legally more than 3 feet from his initial baseline.
Last edited by dash_riprock
F 3FingeredGlove1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by dash_riprock:
Yes it is, but not all plays are tag attempts, and there must be a tag attempt to establish a baseline.


I agree with that. However, while OBR and NCAA specifically say "tag" attempt, FED says "when a play is being made on a runner". FED doesn't define a play, but the usual definition of "playing on" includes one defensive player throwing to another who is in a position to put out the runner. Pretty clearly, throwing the ball is not an event which establishes a runner's baseline. So I think FED's terminiology is porrly chosen.
P pilsner500+ posts
quote:
Yes it is, but not all plays are tag attempts, and there must be a tag attempt to establish a baseline.


dash,

Are you suggesting that until a fielder with the ball is close enough to the runner to make a tag attempt (say, a step and a reach) that the runner is free to roam wherever he wishes? If you are I would have to disagree.
D dash_riprock1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by pilsner:
quote:
Yes it is, but not all plays are tag attempts, and there must be a tag attempt to establish a baseline.


dash,

Are you suggesting that until a fielder with the ball is close enough to the runner to make a tag attempt (say, a step and a reach) that the runner is free to roam wherever he wishes? If you are I would have to disagree.


No. If a fielder with the ball is chasing the runner, and the runner is not heading toward a base, he's going to be out. But if there is no tag attempt being made on him, a runner can go into the outfield if he wants to. Google "skunk in the outfield" to see how some brilliant LL coaches try to take advantage of this rule.
D dash_riprock1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Doughnutman:
Dash,

quote:
FED is also specific as to the tag attempt. 8-4-2-a: "Any runner is out when he runs more than 3 feet away... to avoid being tagged or to hinder a fielder..."


How does this work out with a runner using all 6 feet to avoid a tag as in the above scenario? I know the baserunner was more than 3 feet away from the tag attempt.

It's not the distance from the tag attempt that matters, it's the distance from the runner's baseline (established when the tag attempt is made).

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