Didn't see the Kellam game but agree that trying to overcome the defecit in the 7th inning is most of the time too late. Of course emotions were charged but parents remember this, your shouts and stomps lead to your son's shouts and stomps.
I understand three fresh umpires were provided for each game.
1943 why don't you lay off Chris Taylor seems you have an ax to grind. Your posts aren't enjoyable anymore
There were not three "fresh" umpires for the PA/OL game on Saturday. I would estimate the combined experience for those three to be around 20 - 30 years, at least. And there was no controversy in this game. Just a well played, unbelievably well pitched ball game.
PA/OL Game - Congrats to Tomchik for throwing the no hitter. He was patient and composed. Also have to give credit to the defense for posting no errors, that's what it took. Ross Cardwell did a great job of digging several bad throws out of the dirt to make the plays at first. Zack Smith made a diving catch in center that left him covered in mud from head to toe - way to hold onto it Zach.
Looks like the underdogs all lead in the first half of every game. That's what makes great playoff games.
Looks like the underdogs all lead in the first half of every game. That's what makes great playoff games.
I wish I could have seen those games! Sounds like they were interesting.
quote:Originally posted by grasscutter:
There were not three "fresh" umpires for the PA/OL game on Saturday. I would estimate the combined experience for those three to be around 20 - 30 years, at least. And there was no controversy in this game. Just a well played, unbelievably well pitched ball game.
As I understand it one of the umpires in that game has about 40 years experience on his own!
quote:Originally posted by BLue26:quote:Originally posted by grasscutter:
There were not three "fresh" umpires for the PA/OL game on Saturday. I would estimate the combined experience for those three to be around 20 - 30 years, at least. And there was no controversy in this game. Just a well played, unbelievably well pitched ball game.
As I understand it one of the umpires in that game has about 40 years experience on his own!
All I know is the Landstown Concessions get an A+..
The young boy who catered to all the fans was a joy and it was nice to have someone get you what you might need!!!
Yep, Mr. Campbell has been around for a while.
My comment in reference to the economy and getting umpires was directed at the fact that it seems that every year from little league on up there is a shortage of umpires. Especially with military issues when so many have to go oversees. It always seems to put burdens on schedules along with rain makeups, it can make a logistical nightmare. The umps that I have met that quit, specify that the money is not worth the abuse that they take. That being said, with the economy going south, it may just bring in some good guys who now need the money.
Newsworthy, as far as your comment, no ax to grind, just expect accurate info from someone with over 400 posts to this site who has no problem smacking other programs. Please read your post from April 3. Feel free to send me a private message or call me. 692-5759
Lynn Metheny
Congrats to Ross Jarzynka from OL. Committed to play with Norbie.
Newsworthy, as far as your comment, no ax to grind, just expect accurate info from someone with over 400 posts to this site who has no problem smacking other programs. Please read your post from April 3. Feel free to send me a private message or call me. 692-5759
Lynn Metheny
Congrats to Ross Jarzynka from OL. Committed to play with Norbie.
quote:the biggest was when one of the FC players without a doubt swung at a pitch which would have been strike three and Landstown would have been out of the inning with a 3-2 lead going into the seventh, but know the Ump was sleeping and it gave FC another chance
Unfortunately, your idea that the umpire was sleeping shows that you don't know much about umpiring. The batter in question was a RH batter. In a 3-man system, you go to the "open" side for a reason. You have a better look at a check swing from the open side. Unfortunately, not all umpires are proficient in a 3-man system, and the plate umpire went to the 3rd base umpire instead of the 1st base umpire. Not sure why but he did. The 3rd base umpire (and it wasn't me) did not give an immediate signal hoping the plate umpire would realize that he need to go to the 1st base umpire. After several appeals, the 3rd base umpire gave said "no swing" because he doesn't have as good a look.
1943- you say you have no ax to grind yet the assault continues. I most definitely do NOT "smack" other programs. Outside of one incident where I was upset about what appeared to me to be a lack of effort in getting a game location switched, in my 400+ posts I've said nothing but positive things about other schools, programs, coaches, and players.
Yes, I made a mistake in posting that the Kempsville SS caught the ball hit by Ryan Kilmon when it was the 2b. Not a huge deal and I corrected my post. Somehow that accurate info was still not good enough for you and you pushed further insinuating that I was not there at all. Why would you do such a thing if all you wanted was "accurate information? No ax to grind? I think its becoming pretty apparent as to who is being truthful here...BTW, would you like witnesses attesting to my attendance at the game?
To all, I'm sorry to have burdened this board with this nonsense, but I felt the need to respond publicly
Yes, I made a mistake in posting that the Kempsville SS caught the ball hit by Ryan Kilmon when it was the 2b. Not a huge deal and I corrected my post. Somehow that accurate info was still not good enough for you and you pushed further insinuating that I was not there at all. Why would you do such a thing if all you wanted was "accurate information? No ax to grind? I think its becoming pretty apparent as to who is being truthful here...BTW, would you like witnesses attesting to my attendance at the game?
To all, I'm sorry to have burdened this board with this nonsense, but I felt the need to respond publicly
For all those individuals out there watching games who think they can do as good a job or better than the umpires on the field, please send me a PM and I'll get you in touch with the commissioner so you can join the association and become an umpire. EOA is always looking for new people to become umpires.
As has been stated previously, the turnover is high for various reasons. Some people move, others realize it's not for them, new jobs, injuries, and even the abuse from fans. While I personally think that the abuse is low on the list of reasons to stop umpiring, it is a reason.
Umpires are not perfect. Even in MLB, they make mistakes. And as much as the fans want to believe, the feel bad when they make a mistake that results in a single run. What most fans don't realize, is umpires try to learn from that mistake so as to not let it happen again. Also, as stated early, they are the only ones at the game they have no stake in the outcome of the game.
In the game I was at Sat, the 3rd base umpire made a mistake against Cox due to his lack of working 3-man. Cox was able to scratch back and win the game in the bottom of the 7th. However, had Cox not come back to win, would it have been because the mistake or would it have been because Topping pitched a great game until the rain delay? With the bashing of the umpires in the FC and Kellam games, I'm surprised that that nothing has been said about the Cox game.
Once again, if you want to start umpiring and do a better job than the umpires on the field, please PM me and I'll get you in touch with the commissioner.
As has been stated previously, the turnover is high for various reasons. Some people move, others realize it's not for them, new jobs, injuries, and even the abuse from fans. While I personally think that the abuse is low on the list of reasons to stop umpiring, it is a reason.
Umpires are not perfect. Even in MLB, they make mistakes. And as much as the fans want to believe, the feel bad when they make a mistake that results in a single run. What most fans don't realize, is umpires try to learn from that mistake so as to not let it happen again. Also, as stated early, they are the only ones at the game they have no stake in the outcome of the game.
In the game I was at Sat, the 3rd base umpire made a mistake against Cox due to his lack of working 3-man. Cox was able to scratch back and win the game in the bottom of the 7th. However, had Cox not come back to win, would it have been because the mistake or would it have been because Topping pitched a great game until the rain delay? With the bashing of the umpires in the FC and Kellam games, I'm surprised that that nothing has been said about the Cox game.
Once again, if you want to start umpiring and do a better job than the umpires on the field, please PM me and I'll get you in touch with the commissioner.
Base Jones,All that info and it was lefthanded batter Cam Stevenson.
BaseJones knows what he is talking about. For all those who would like to give it a shot, take him up on his offer and train to become an umpire. The perspective of the game you will get will change dramaticly. Base Jones will make sure you get trained the right way.
Someone made the comment about a bad umpire call cost their team (or a team) their season. This statement, from a statistical stand point, is rediculous! Think of the number of player, coach, and umpire decisions within one game (In the 1000's easily). Multiply that by the entire schedule (20-22 games) and you'll see that one decision, one judgement, one call, one hit, one error, one pitch, one substitution, one individual effort doesn't cost a season - its the cumulative sum of all the occurance. I'm sorry I had to go into that, but thats the teacher in me.
Lastly, I only mentioned the Kellam game in my other post because it was the topic at hand at that time. Sportsmanship is the priority in scholastic sports. It builds men, not just ball players.
Someone made the comment about a bad umpire call cost their team (or a team) their season. This statement, from a statistical stand point, is rediculous! Think of the number of player, coach, and umpire decisions within one game (In the 1000's easily). Multiply that by the entire schedule (20-22 games) and you'll see that one decision, one judgement, one call, one hit, one error, one pitch, one substitution, one individual effort doesn't cost a season - its the cumulative sum of all the occurance. I'm sorry I had to go into that, but thats the teacher in me.
Lastly, I only mentioned the Kellam game in my other post because it was the topic at hand at that time. Sportsmanship is the priority in scholastic sports. It builds men, not just ball players.
quote:Originally posted by Base Jones:quote:the biggest was when one of the FC players without a doubt swung at a pitch which would have been strike three and Landstown would have been out of the inning with a 3-2 lead going into the seventh, but know the Ump was sleeping and it gave FC another chance
Unfortunately, your idea that the umpire was sleeping shows that you don't know much about umpiring. The batter in question was a RH batter. In a 3-man system, you go to the "open" side for a reason. You have a better look at a check swing from the open side. Unfortunately, not all umpires are proficient in a 3-man system, and the plate umpire went to the 3rd base umpire instead of the 1st base umpire. Not sure why but he did. The 3rd base umpire (and it wasn't me) did not give an immediate signal hoping the plate umpire would realize that he need to go to the 1st base umpire. After several appeals, the 3rd base umpire gave said "no swing" because he doesn't have as good a look.
Evidentally you must of been the umpire on that call because the batter in question was definitly a left handed batter, because the next extra pitch was hit to right field for a single.The hitter thought he was out himself also, just a bad blown call, this does not take rocket science to make the right call, and i have umpired before and would never have missed a call like that especially if the umps for the game were supposed to be the top noth umps for the PLAYOFFS, Umps need to admit their mistakes also.
bravesfan31 - No I wasn't the umpire in question, but I do know who was. He said the only check swing that was controversial was with a right-handed batter. Could it be we are talking about two different batters? Not sure? Umpires do admit mistakes - ask Coach Conroy what the umpire said to him Sat in the top of the 2nd inning of the Cox/Tallwood game. Unfortunately, some mistakes cannot be reversed. For example, if an umpire mistakenly calls a ground ball foul, it's foul. I have had a former MLB ask me how often an umpire is right on close plays - the answer is 50% - half the people think you got the call right, the other half think you got the call wrong. Again, as stated early, umpires are the only ones at the game that have no stake in the outcome.
Can teams admit mistakes? Some yes and some no. I have heard many times that a single call cost a team a game in a 1-run game, yet there is no mention of the 5 or 6 errors that lead to several runs, or the fact that a pitcher shut them down. It has to be someone else's fault.
And if you have umpired, just don't talk about it, please come out and do a better job than those on the field.
Can teams admit mistakes? Some yes and some no. I have heard many times that a single call cost a team a game in a 1-run game, yet there is no mention of the 5 or 6 errors that lead to several runs, or the fact that a pitcher shut them down. It has to be someone else's fault.
And if you have umpired, just don't talk about it, please come out and do a better job than those on the field.
I agree that umpires try to make the right call and feel bad when they miss one. I was at the Kellam/Kville game and witnessed two umpires making two different calls on a decisive play to end a playoff game. I'm not arguing whether the secondbaseman made the catch or not. But the umpires have to be on the same page. The runner on 3b left for home when he saw the homeplate umpire signal "safe", only to have the 1b umpire (who was BEHIND the secondbaseman) rule it a catch. By the time the field umpire raised his fist to signal "out", the Kellam player had already crossed the plate. Bottom line, the kid would have never left for home if the homeplate umpire hadnt signaled "safe". Again, dont know if it was a catch or not (dont know how 1b umpire was so convinced when he was behind the play) but it would have been nice if they would have talked it over instead of sprinting to their cars. In the past, I have seen field umpires get a second opinion from the homeplate umpire if they feel they were out of position and couldnt see a play clearly. There wasnt even a chance to do so with the quick exit. I know there are several factors that contribute to the outcome of the game, and you really cant blame one instance. But in the playoffs, you cant have two contradicting calls to end a game in the last at bat...
quote:Originally posted by hasbeen007:
I agree that umpires try to make the right call and feel bad when they miss one. I was at the Kellam/Kville game and witnessed two umpires making two different calls on a decisive play to end a playoff game. I'm not arguing whether the secondbaseman made the catch or not. But the umpires have to be on the same page. The runner on 3b left for home when he saw the homeplate umpire signal "safe", only to have the 1b umpire (who was BEHIND the secondbaseman) rule it a catch. By the time the field umpire raised his fist to signal "out", the Kellam player had already crossed the plate. Bottom line, the kid would have never left for home if the homeplate umpire hadnt signaled "safe". Again, dont know if it was a catch or not (dont know how 1b umpire was so convinced when he was behind the play) but it would have been nice if they would have talked it over instead of sprinting to their cars. In the past, I have seen field umpires get a second opinion from the homeplate umpire if they feel they were out of position and couldnt see a play clearly. There wasnt even a chance to do so with the quick exit. I know there are several factors that contribute to the outcome of the game, and you really cant blame one instance. But in the playoffs, you cant have two contradicting calls to end a game in the last at bat...
Bottom Line is KEMP beat Kellam and they beat them the matchup before I beleive by 10 runs....It is not a shock and this is ridiculous
No Way,
You are absolutely right. That is why I called an E10 on my original post. Kempsville was winning all seven innings.
As for you Mr. Taylor, I never said you were not at the game, I said you were not there for that play. I too was at the far end of the left field fence for the entire game, except when I went to buy a water during the second inning. Even from there a person can see if the ball went to ss or 2nd and a person can see a person leaving the game! Call it what it is!
You are absolutely right. That is why I called an E10 on my original post. Kempsville was winning all seven innings.
As for you Mr. Taylor, I never said you were not at the game, I said you were not there for that play. I too was at the far end of the left field fence for the entire game, except when I went to buy a water during the second inning. Even from there a person can see if the ball went to ss or 2nd and a person can see a person leaving the game! Call it what it is!
Wow...you can't seem to let it go. If you were so intent on watching me leave the field, you might have noticed that I stopped at the left field corner (with Rob Bach and Pat Hall)to watch the end of the game and was there for the final play. I can even tell you that I thought it was a bit strange that the fielder seemed to forget momentarily that there was still one out to go after he caught the ball because (at least from my vantage point) he bounced up showing the umpire that he had the ball in his glove and it seemed to take several seconds before he realized he still had to throw to 3b for the final out.
This is all so very trivial and frankly, I'm embarassed to be a part of it. Let me know when your done searching thru my 400+ posts in an attempt to find a post "smacking" another program
This is all so very trivial and frankly, I'm embarassed to be a part of it. Let me know when your done searching thru my 400+ posts in an attempt to find a post "smacking" another program
Bottom Line is KEMP beat Kellam and they beat them the matchup before I beleive by 10 runs....It is not a shock and this is ridiculous [/QUOTE]
Why does the previous game vs. kville have anything to do with my statement? Didnt Kellam beat FC in its previous meeting??? It would have been a great matchup to watch. Its gonna be really tough for Kempsville to keep the game close without smith on the hill...
[/QUOTE]Why does the previous game vs. kville have anything to do with my statement? Didnt Kellam beat FC in its previous meeting??? It would have been a great matchup to watch. Its gonna be really tough for Kempsville to keep the game close without smith on the hill...
I'm all about Smith being on the hill - I'm his mom, but - the team as a whole earned the right to be in the game tonight. Maybe we will keep it close maybe we won't, but don't count us out just yet!!
Maybe you will get to see Smith on the hill since the game isn't until tomorrow!
Kempsville did beat Kellam but the issue is the umpire’s control of the game. Prior to any clarification of the calls the Kempsville team rushed the field and the umpires never made an attempt to control the chaos that ensued. If they had just gotten together and made the call, half of the questions would have never occurred. At least there would have been the satification that they made an attempt at the correct call. Their lack of accountability contributed to the confusion.
As for the E10, the fielding changes were due to an ineligible player that resulted in the altered infield line up. That part was not in his control and would have to say contributed to kellams performance. Possibly different pitchers would have resulted in a different outcome, but due to the other necessary changes in the field and only 3 seniors starting he may not have felt adding another freshman on the field would help the situation.
As for the E10, the fielding changes were due to an ineligible player that resulted in the altered infield line up. That part was not in his control and would have to say contributed to kellams performance. Possibly different pitchers would have resulted in a different outcome, but due to the other necessary changes in the field and only 3 seniors starting he may not have felt adding another freshman on the field would help the situation.
quote:Originally posted by BLue26:
Maybe you will get to see Smith on the hill since the game isn't until tomorrow!
Yes, my son said game postponed today.
BaseJones,
This is just a general question, but one I am very interested to know the answer to (not to keep harping on Kellam's agony): let's say the umpires did get together after the play in question and reversed the call. Where would the runners be at this point in time (the second baseman threw to third and not to first for the force). Is the batter safe at first? And/or is the runner from third safe at home and we now have a tie ballgame?
By the way, I just heard that the games today are cancelled (they didn't tarp after the games on Saturday). Make ups are tomorrow.
This is just a general question, but one I am very interested to know the answer to (not to keep harping on Kellam's agony): let's say the umpires did get together after the play in question and reversed the call. Where would the runners be at this point in time (the second baseman threw to third and not to first for the force). Is the batter safe at first? And/or is the runner from third safe at home and we now have a tie ballgame?
By the way, I just heard that the games today are cancelled (they didn't tarp after the games on Saturday). Make ups are tomorrow.
That would have been interesting to work out. The way everything played out the run would have scored and there would have been a runner on first with one out as far as I could tell. From all of the talk that is the only thing I could possibly see happening.
What is your take Base?
What is your take Base?
What is the schedule for games today? When does FC play PA?
Games today are off! If the schedule is the same tomorrow then Cox plays PA at 4 and FC Kempsville at 7.
Why are the games not being played today?
No tarp after Saturday's games.
Grasscutter,
Who will get the ball now that there is one more days rest?
Maybe Kempsville will throw Smith again! That would be a great game.
Who will get the ball now that there is one more days rest?
Maybe Kempsville will throw Smith again! That would be a great game.
I'm not telling. Who are you riding down to Wilmington with this year?
I just can't believe that the field was not tarped....they left the field tarped on Saturday before the PA/OL for 45 minutes when the sun was shining.....
And when they knew it was going to rain Sunday, they didn't tarp the field.....
I think Smith will be on the mound.....especially if Cox should win the first game tomorrow.
And when they knew it was going to rain Sunday, they didn't tarp the field.....
I think Smith will be on the mound.....especially if Cox should win the first game tomorrow.
Not Tarping completely unexcusable.Someone should be held accountable.Where was baseball chairman?
huge fan, u might want to consider that coach mungun is working on his field for NOTHING--- who u going to hold accountable? perhaps he should have brought in his kids, who were eliminated from tourney play, in on sunday after prom? maybe u should have brought in 20 buddies to LHS and done it urself?
what color is the sun in ur world?
what color is the sun in ur world?
quote:Originally posted by Mr. C:
huge fan, u might want to consider that coach mungun is working on his field for NOTHING--- who u going to hold accountable? perhaps he should have brought in his kids, who were eliminated from tourney play, in on sunday after prom? maybe u should have brought in 20 buddies to LHS and done it urself?
what color is the sun in ur world?
If you are hosting a tournament I would think you would want to tarp it if you had one. Or listen to people that say hey you should have tarped your field aren't you hosting the Beach tourney?? No tarp no host! By the way we have had a very rainy baseball season. Or maybe someone wants to see some different pitching matchups??
Maybe the umps took it when they ran off the field?
Field should have been tarped. Earlier in the day when they tarped it before the PA/OL game the players from PA & OL assisted in tarping. I'm sure if asked the Kemps and Kellam kids would have done the same.
This is a district playoff that is under time constraints to begin with. Everyone knew it was going to rain on Sunday. It was a bad move as a host. So if the baseball program is getting NOTHING for hosting who is receiving all the money we paid in gate fees and concessions?
This is a district playoff that is under time constraints to begin with. Everyone knew it was going to rain on Sunday. It was a bad move as a host. So if the baseball program is getting NOTHING for hosting who is receiving all the money we paid in gate fees and concessions?
quote:Originally posted by BeachFan:
Field should have been tarped. Earlier in the day when they tarped it before the PA/OL game the players from PA & OL assisted in tarping. I'm sure if asked the Kemps and Kellam kids would have done the same.
This is a district playoff that is under time constraints to begin with. Everyone knew it was going to rain on Sunday. It was a bad move as a host. So if the baseball program is getting NOTHING for hosting who is receiving all the money we paid in gate fees and concessions?
I agree...and pitching matchup??? Some teams have more than 1 pitcher.
Most of entry fee in revenue gates goes to VHSL with small % staying with schools. Landstown makes $ on concessions and that 50/50 that I spent at least one million dollars on!
Maybe with rain only scheduled for Sunday, they thought 2 days would dry out field. Sun never game out and temps stayed low!
The one day should certainly help the team who wins. Then they still have until Monday to rest.
Grasscutter, why do you want to come? At least I have GPS this time!
Maybe with rain only scheduled for Sunday, they thought 2 days would dry out field. Sun never game out and temps stayed low!
The one day should certainly help the team who wins. Then they still have until Monday to rest.
Grasscutter, why do you want to come? At least I have GPS this time!