Before or after the draft?

Swingbuilder- I am willing to learn, give me the introduction to the thesis paper. I should add that of course college coaches would like a world without advisors/agents, but they are a reality that they deal with. I have not heard of a story where a college didn't offer to a kid because of his advisor. Most of the players who have advisor's by the early signing period are the top tier recruits. So maybe I will rephrase and state that college coaches live with the advisor situation out of necessity.

I would state that having an advisor costs the family nothing so where's the harm. As for the agent, if the money is not signifigant then it may be a waste but in our case, the ancillary income brought in by the agent has more than paid for their services. There are a tremendous amount of services offered by some agents. Financial planning, off-season training, in-season training assistance, medical assistance, resources to secure housing, move vehicles, etc. In our case, the ability to secure medical treatment by the best possible doctors in an extremely timely manner. Not every situation is the same, but it has been beneficial to us.

I think that youall bring up some really good points to think aobut.

However, everyone seems to be in agreement that one has to be very careful in making any decision.

As I posted before know of a situation where a college player was being advised by an advisor/agent. The college coach was dead set against the player using this individual and advised him that in his particular case he did not need to pay anyone 3-4% later for that advice. The player took that advice, was drafted and later signed with an agent only for a small yearly fee to use his services. I tend to agree that most college coaches do not care for most advisor/agents when dealing with their players, especailly the ones who will be drafted in late rounds.

I have no problem with an Advisor/ Agent when used correctly and declared after there is no doubt that you will sign a pro contract.

Anything before that is against the NCAA rules and could cost a player his college elgibility.

An ADVISOR sending emails of when a player is going to pitch or take BP is someone speaking on his behalf and is a violation of NCAA Rules.

Keep the advisor to yourself and control him. Don't let him out beyond the TITLE "ADVISOR". When he steps out to a park and calls a scout or a team and sends emails on the players behalf he is NO LONGER AN ADVISOR....THE ADVISOR IS NOW AN AGENT and its a violation of NCAA rules.

I don't think any of you understand the word ADVISOR. If an advsior sits in the park and talks with a scout on the players behalf then that advisor is not an advisor he is an AGENT!

swingbuilder you have a pm.

Got it TPM, I'm doing some research for you on your question. Give me some time to put it together.

Back to this advisor thing.

An advsior is not someone who ask questions and speaks to pro teams and its representatives on the players and familys behalf. That guy is an Agent.

An advsior answers questions for the family about whatever the family wants to ask and know. Not that the advsior has the answer.

Why a family would not ask any and all questions to the parties (college coach and scout)that like their son and his abilities makes no sense to me.

When a advsior walks up to a scout and says "Hi, Im Mr. Advisor, I represent Player A" Understand then that Mr. Advisor is NOW MR. AGENT.

Agree with you on every aspect swingbuilder.

The reality is that advisors talk to scouts about players whether directly or in a round about way. They rely on these relationships to garner information that can then be passed on to the athlete. Is it against the rules? A lot of gray areas and symantics. Information is the key to making any decsision. The lines have been blurred for years and will continue to be. TPM, yourself, PG and others have great points and just emphasize the importance of these decisions and the effects that your associations have on your image and future.

We used one. If I am blessed enough to go through that process again, I could not tell you at this moment if I would use an advisor or not. No right or wrong answer.

quote:

The reality is that advisors talk to scouts about players whether directly or in a round about way. THEN THAT ADVISOR IS AN AGENT

They rely on these relationships to garner information that can then be passed on to the athlete. THIS IS WHERE IT MAKES NO SENSE. WHY IN THE HECK WOULDNT YOU JUST ASK THE SCOUT AND TAKE OUT THE 3RD PARTY.

Is it against the rules? YOU BETTER BELIVE IT IS.

You all make interesting points and for the most part I agree with the postings. However, I do think there is a double standard. As swing builder correctly points out if, "he [advisor] steps out to a park and calls a scout or a team and sends emails on the players behalf he is NO LONGER AN ADVISOR....THE ADVISOR IS NOW AN AGENT and its a violation of NCAA rules. But if a group of people get together, form a corporation and call it...umm...I don't know, "Perfect Game" decide to set up tournaments and/or showcases, charge a fee, publicize the tournaments all over the internet and baseball magazines [baseball america], mask the tournament as if it is open to everyone, but have super-duper-select teams compete where just by coincidence, these teams are all composed of some the best players in this country and others, not only is that okay the idea is encouraged. An argument could be made that "Perfect Game" is nothing more than a "legal" alternative to marketing players.

Is an agent profiting off the player? No.

Is a corporation profiting off an individual? Yes.

Whether its "perfect game" "my space" "yahoo" "google" or even newspapers, the ability to profit off advertising is immense. And I take exception to any tournament director who would dare question the integrity of an agent because they are both after the same thing, profit.

And swingbuilder, I do know the definition of Advisor, and I do know the definition of Agent. I also know the definition of naive. Some parents are naive about this whole process which is why this site is so helpful. We have all learned something from this site.

For the record, I don't agree with anything newagent said in his last post.

Swingbuilder, I would love to continue this conversation with you but it appears this thread is going in a different direction.

Any parent out there please feel free to PM me I will share my experiences.

quote:

Is an agent profiting off the player? No.

OH REALLY

quote:

I doubt that most scouts or scouting directors want to talk to a lot of parents about the player. My experience is that the info will be less forthcoming.

Key word here "doubt". I know you've been through the process.

A scout is more than willing to sit down anytime with any player and his family. Give them the benefit of the "DOUBT". If a scout likes your son, you know as well as anyone, that not only will the scouting director and the scout talk to you so will others in the organization to include the General Manager.

Like I said, I have no problem at all once the player chooses to sign. You know, I have watched these so called advisors flock to players and I have watched hearts be broken when the player gets hurt and the advsior stops coming around and calling. You and I both know that its so watered down. Heck the phone rings off the hook with every "NEWAGENT" in the country calling. There are only a few who are worthy of being a said advisor/ agent. Use the ones with big league players, they have experience and use them in conjunction with the rules.

Let me comment on "perfect game"and "newagents" comments.

What "Perfect Game" does is not a violation of NCAA Rules. As a matter of fact they had to adjust their events to meet the NCAA rules. Which they did without one public complaint.

Yep its legal and within the rules.

Deldad:

With all due respect deldad, you disgree with everything I said? Including the part about people having interesting posts. Additonally, the thread is directed by all posters not one or two.

Swingbuilder:

My bad, I seemed to have made a typo, the agent does profit off of the player. And yes, "Perfect Game" ALWAYS complies with the NCAA's rules. However, as we saw yesterday, the NCAA's rules do not always comply with our Federal Government's laws, more specifically Section I of the Sherman Act.

MLBSB Profile.............to be completed by Player only.

MLB club scouting questionairre............to be completed by Player.

In-home scout visit...............to talk to the Player and have parents also ask questions

Read the history of slot bonus'

Early June: Did you get a call for a pre-draft workout or is it all quiet on the baseball draft front ?

Is an "advisor" necessary to this point ?

The only thing I know about the Draft is that not all the best players available are drafted.

quote:

The only thing I know about the Draft is that not all the best players available are drafted.

and as we have discussed, there are many reasons why. If you don't say I want to sign and you leave it to chance then you could be going to college.

I told you of the high profile catcher in Texas back in like 2000-2001 who would not tell any team what it would take to sign him. The comment was the same to every team. "We will wait until after the draft to decide". Well, he didn't get drafted. Teams want to sign their top 10 round draft picks "at least". So if they don't get some answers then that player will fall and may not even get drafted.

thats just one situation. There are many.

Actually when mine got hurt exactly one month before the draft, it was the advisor who turned into the person we leaned on the most for info and guidance. Our experience with this particular individual was outstanding. Maybe they were the exception. All the scouts, scouting directors, and GM's were gone before the game ended, 99% to be never heard from again. The advisor was there late into the evening, the next day and the weeks that followed. I realize that is just my experience.

"There are only a few who are worthy of being a said advisor/ agent. Use the ones with big league players, they have experience and use them in conjunction with the rules." I agree swingbuilder.

That 1% you mention is the team that wanted you. They took a chance and the risk involved. So far it has worked out to both's advantage. I wish him a long and rewarding career.

deldad,

It really sounds like you guys had a very good advisor. They do exist!

You don't have to, but because of our business I would like to know who that advisor was/is. If that is OK please PM me. Always interested in who the good people are.

newagent,

I understand your analogy, but we would just as soon not be compared to the agent business. We hold events, rank players, write reports, etc. The tournaments are teams that pay an entre fee in most instances... just like any other tournament. Some ARE strictly invitational and we do hope to profit. However, we only provide a stage, no player could ever pay us enough to change what we do. We don't profit off the player other than he might pay to attend an event. We only help an individual if him or his parents call us asking questions. I really have no problem with the good honest people who are in your business and there are some very good ones. Though, it sounds like you might even agree that there are a lot of bad apples in that business. It takes a very long time to develop a good reputation, but a bad reputation can be gained in an instant.

Many years ago we thought about starting our own sports agency. If we had we would have made a lot more money over the past 10 or more years. We had a giant advantage because we got to know and developed relationships with top players at a young age... long before the other people in that business knew them. And we had the people within our organization that could have done it correctly.

The reason we have never entered that arena is because it was and is a direct conflict to our core business. We take great pride in being as honest as possible. So sending out glowing reports on players we also were advising seemed to be a big conflict of interest. Besides, the credibilty involving the information we provided would have lost it's impact for being impartial, even if we were 100% honest.

However, in line with your thoughts... There are many agents who will call us (call it the middle man) to feed us info and propaganda about the players they are advising. They know our information will reach the right people. Some of these agent/advisors we know well and really trust, but we have found some who are basically lying to us. In the end, we always have to see things for ourself because there is way too much promotion involved. Sometimes there's a lot at stake.

We talk about good college fits well the same applies to agents.

quote:

Originally posted by newagent:
You all make interesting points and for the most part I agree with the postings. However, I do think there is a double standard. As swing builder correctly points out if, "he [advisor] steps out to a park and calls a scout or a team and sends emails on the players behalf he is NO LONGER AN ADVISOR....THE ADVISOR IS NOW AN AGENT and its a violation of NCAA rules. But if a group of people get together, form a corporation and call it...umm...I don't know, "Perfect Game" decide to set up tournaments and/or showcases, charge a fee, publicize the tournaments all over the internet and baseball magazines [baseball america], mask the tournament as if it is open to everyone, but have super-duper-select teams compete where just by coincidence, these teams are all composed of some the best players in this country and others, not only is that okay the idea is encouraged. An argument could be made that "Perfect Game" is nothing more than a "legal" alternative to marketing players.

Is an agent profiting off the player? No.

Is a corporation profiting off an individual? Yes.

Whether its "perfect game" "my space" "yahoo" "google" or even newspapers, the ability to profit off advertising is immense. And I take exception to any tournament director who would dare question the integrity of an agent because they are both after the same thing, profit.

And swingbuilder, I do know the definition of Advisor, and I do know the definition of Agent. I also know the definition of naive. Some parents are naive about this whole process which is why this site is so helpful. We have all learned something from this site.

IMO - As comparative analyses go - that is both lame and shallow.

Thumbs down - again.

I suppose everyone is short-wicked waiting for both college and high school baseball to start.

While everyone is piiiiissssssing at each other, the same folks can't wait to talk about the games.

Leave the agent alone, and provide any assistance you can............geeeez

I was reminded what baseball is about in an article about my kid. It ain't about the craaapolllla in this thread!!

Oldslugger,

I would agree with you on that.

This is what you get when you inject a lawyer - into the game of baseball.

Nothing about the game. Everything about things other than the game.

Just the way it is - and will always be. Ka-Ching

LOL