@adbono posted:Since this thread isn’t going anywhere I want to add another name in case someone does a search later.
Ronnie Ortegon is an excellent instructor ( former milb hitting coach) and btw neither he or Barry Hoffpauir (former college HC) teach launch angle. They teach sound hitting mechanics that will hold up as the level of play gets steeper over time.
What does "teaching launch angle" mean?
@$tinky posted:What does "teaching launch angle" mean?
Teaching an uphill swing that promotes hitting the ball in the air. Hitting coaches that are purists (like the 2 mentioned) don’t subscribe to that method as it results in way too many pop ups, fly outs, and swing and miss. The bat doesn’t stay in the hitting zone long enough. It is especially ridiculous for scrawny young kids to be taught this way as they will never hit the ball out of the ballpark. My son had an uphill swing for years and is big & strong enough to hit the ball out of any ballpark. But in HS I can’t tell you how many times he hit a high fly ball that an OF caught with his back against the fence. It was only after working for a year with the Chicago Cubs AA hitting instructor in preparation for college that his swing flattened out and he was consistently back spinning the baseball. He is now driving the baseball and more than a few went out of the park during his first two years of college ball.
@adbono posted:Teaching an uphill swing that promotes hitting the ball in the air. Hitting coaches that are purists (like the 2 mentioned) don’t subscribe to that method as it results in way too many pop ups, fly outs, and swing and miss. The bat doesn’t stay in the hitting zone long enough. It is especially ridiculous for scrawny young kids to be taught this way as they will never hit the ball out of the ballpark. My son had an uphill swing for years and is big & strong enough to hit the ball out of any ballpark. But in HS I can’t tell you how many times he hit a high fly ball that an OF caught with his back against the fence. It was only after working for a year with the Chicago Cubs AA hitting instructor in preparation for college that his swing flattened out and he was consistently back spinning the baseball. He is now driving the baseball and more than a few went out of the park during his first two years of college ball.
Just my opinion but I'd prefer my swing to be uphill so that it matches the plane of the pitch. I'd also prefer a swing plane that promotes hitting the ball in the air. Ground balls = outs.
@$tinky posted:Just my opinion but I'd prefer my swing to be uphill so that it matches the plane of the pitch. I'd also prefer a swing plane that promotes hitting the ball in the air. Ground balls = outs.
I think it also depends a bit on the degree of up. Slightly up is good but it would be possible to swing up too much.
@$tinky posted:Just my opinion but I'd prefer my swing to be uphill so that it matches the plane of the pitch. I'd also prefer a swing plane that promotes hitting the ball in the air. Ground balls = outs.
Nowhere did I suggest that you should hit ground balls. You should hit line drives with back spin.
@Dominik85 posted:I think it also depends a bit on the degree of up. Slightly up is good but it would be possible to swing up too much.
That is exactly what happens when the teaching emphasizes an uphill swing. It gets too uphill in a NY minute resulting in pop-ups and catchable fly balls - two of the easiest plays in the game.
adono;
do you use the "high tee" drill to develop "backspin"? Backspin creates an extra 30' carry on the ball. Whether you start with the hands "high" or low does not make a different.
The hands can be elevated to be on top and drive thru and then up. Use the full BP cage for best learning. Concentrate on the "red seams" when hitting. Always practice with wood and listen for the sound of impact "bat to ball",
Bob
PS: last night watched Clint Eastwood "Trouble with the Curve" [Classic baseball movie]
@$tinky posted:Just my opinion but I'd prefer my swing to be uphill so that it matches the plane of the pitch. I'd also prefer a swing plane that promotes hitting the ball in the air. Ground balls = outs.
At risk of shifting this thread to a topic where the horse has definitely been beaten on this site...
I totally agree with Adbono... I was a HS coach for many years and one of my sons is a college coach. We both have experienced the same phenomena on this from youth through varsity HS and well into college. If your teach is a "slightly up" swing and/or "on plane with the pitch" swing, 99 times out of 100, you get a swing that is more up than the plane. If you use teaches like "level" or "level thru the ball" (as much as many "hitting gurus" will say that is wrong), the hitter's eye will automatically track the ball and lift the swing plane slightly from level to on-plane. The result is also much more likely to produce the desired backspin.
Once a hitter reaches a certain level of competence, understanding and feel for his swing, it's OK to explain what is happening with the eyes and the brain. Good video capabilities can make a difference but even then, many hitters tend to see what they want to see instead of what is actually happening and when.
I also agree with him about teaching lifting the ball at the youth level. It is even more important not to teach lift to a player who doesn't have the strength to get the ball over the top of the defense. If you do so, you screw him twice... building a fly-out swing and not swinging on plane, thus less consistent contact and more swing-and-miss. A hard line drive approach is far more likely to be successful. No one is saying "try for ground balls" (although, when considering typical youth field conditions and player ability levels, that wouldn't be as totally wrong as most claim).
Yes, there are advanced power hitters who, rightfully, have a lift approach. But those players typically have more awareness of their swing, are stronger, see pitches really well and have better timing than most. If a player reaches a certain level of strength and the other mechanic and timing elements are there, it is not a big adjustment to slightly raise the swing plane at that point - not before.
Lord knows there are different camps on this and more than one way to skin a cat. This is the practical application I have found works best for hitters I have worked with.
And, yes, Bob, high tee in a full cage is great for a few different things. Not so sure about the low hands though... I know... see Ted... 
@cabbagedad posted:At risk of shifting this thread to a topic where the horse has definitely been beaten on this site...
I totally agree with Adbono... I was a HS coach for many years and one of my sons is a college coach. We both have experienced the same phenomena on this from youth through varsity HS and well into college. If your teach is a "slightly up" swing and/or "on plane with the pitch" swing, 99 times out of 100, you get a swing that is more up than the plane. If you use teaches like "level" or "level thru the ball" (as much as many "hitting gurus" will say that is wrong), the hitter's eye will automatically track the ball and lift the swing plane slightly from level to on-plane. The result is also much more likely to produce the desired backspin.
Once a hitter reaches a certain level of competence, understanding and feel for his swing, it's OK to explain what is happening with the eyes and the brain. Good video capabilities can make a difference but even then, many hitters tend to see what they want to see instead of what is actually happening and when.
I also agree with him about teaching lifting the ball at the youth level. It is even more important not to teach lift to a player who doesn't have the strength to get the ball over the top of the defense. If you do so, you screw him twice... building a fly-out swing and not swinging on plane, thus less consistent contact and more swing-and-miss. A hard line drive approach is far more likely to be successful. No one is saying "try for ground balls" (although, when considering typical youth field conditions and player ability levels, that wouldn't be as totally wrong as most claim).
Yes, there are advanced power hitters who, rightfully, have a lift approach. But those players typically have more awareness of their swing, are stronger, see pitches really well and have better timing than most. If a player reaches a certain level of strength and the other mechanic and timing elements are there, it is not a big adjustment to slightly raise the swing plane at that point - not before.
Lord knows there are different camps on this and more than one way to skin a cat. This is the practical application I have found works best for hitters I have worked with.
And, yes, Bob, high tee in a full cage is great for a few different things. Not so sure about the low hands though... I know... see Ted...
Well done Pete! Couldn’t have said it better myself and you are far more patient than I am,
