Big 12

Based on individual state guidelines.

We should be good Go44Dad

Maybe it would be prudent to read the thoughts of Bob Bowlsby, the Commissioner. His many comments reflect expressions of concern about the end of the Fall.

This is not a sprint. The finish line is still in the fog, unless you are one of the 100,000 and growing killed so far and those who loved them. I guess their finish line gets lost on the HSBBW for some.

I honestly don’t even know what you mean by that.  We want our kids to be able to report does not equal not caring that people died. That party line is ridiculous.  It more likely just means we know they are not a high risk group.  And that I know that Go44 and I are in the same state that has okayed sports.

Nobody knows what is or isn't going to happen in the fall. Should we just quit living our lives because something may happen? Now we e are hearing by fauci that long term lock downs would be fatal. Protect nursing homes...the ill and be smart and we'll get through this

SEC has similar plan with a June 8th start date.

https://www.secsports.com/arti...athletics-activities

@infielddad posted:

Maybe it would be prudent to read the thoughts of Bob Bowlsby, the Commissioner. His many comments reflect expressions of concern about the end of the Fall.

This is not a sprint. The finish line is still in the fog, unless you are one of the 100,000 and growing killed so far and those who loved them. I guess their finish line gets lost on the HSBBW for some.

 

Yep , because those 100K Lives are the only ones that mattered in this.

Not a finish line, but it is a new beginning.  Perhaps some of you have lost sight of the millions that will go into starvation, the deaths of increased drug abuse, and suicide as a direct result of economic and social lockdowns.   Perhaps you’ve lost sight of the horrors of Increased domestic violence, the the permanent scars of a generation’s lost education.   

Maybe you weren’t paying attention to how well the reopening has worked in GA, TN, FL, TX, etc.   Maybe you’ve forgotten how poorly things went during the lockdowns in NYC, MI, New Jersey, California and others.  Maybe you haven’t seen the estimates for how many will needlessly die as a direct result of lockdowns.

Shame on anyone that would try to guilt people looking forward to the beginning of the end of this ridiculous, misguided experiment of mass casualties. 

Translation 

Interesting how some like SBD try to put a political spin and try to put a pejorative spin on fact based statements. No matter how folks try to make it political, it is a fact that we are now over 100,000 dead and rising.  That impacts far more people and families than the measurement of death.

As to the new beginning position, it seems like you are trying to play two games on one field at the same time. The game which started  in our Country in January but was not recognized l far too late is still in the early innings. Death rates and the financial and emotional impact are still unfolding and will do so for months into the future. Recent trends, which I assume is being called the "new beginning," clearly need to be followed. Early information  show increases in a number of  States including those with reopening like Texas, Southern  Florida, Alabama, etc.

As to the economic impact, one would have to be blind not to appreciate it.  The societal impact has been, continues to be and will continue to be  harsh. A significant part of my day is trying to work with employers on how to address and impact the harshness within their employee population, while also trying to understand the massive challenges  of reopening. (Have you checked the OSHA guidance for reopening?) This massive economic issue is  largely because of the failures of leadership to provide a cohesive plan which would have synthesized the anticipated medical impact with the anticipated economic consequences. Instead, the message  defensively and retroactively tried to put the Genie back in bottle and convince everyone  this was "nothing" and would "soon go away."

What too many seem to be missing is this is not one or the other. It is a medical issue which is significant and will continue to be so and which will continue to have societal and economic impact. Bob Bowlsby (again) notes he is more concerned about finishing the Fall sports season, not starting it.

What the last 60 days shows is both the medical and economic challenges needed to be managed early and proactively and  and proactively managed well. Neither was. Arguing it was one or the other (illness and death vs economy) is particularly ill suited to a solid discussion and plan, in my opinion.

Yes, huge number of deaths. 42% were nursery home/assisted living.  I don’t know the percentage that had other issues but my guess is most.  The  handling of patients in nursing homes is a major reason (along with age and other conditions) made the death toll large.  College students are not in anymore danger than with flu.  Actually flu is more dangerous to them.  You can’t paint this with a broad brush.

There are a range of numbers for nursing home/long term care deaths.  So they did not deserve to live? Their families did not deserve to have them live, to be with them at the time they left this world? The first responders and doctors and nurses just needed to gut it up and risk their health to try and save those lives?

Those at  younger ages or with lesser risk factors  carry and spread the infection! That apparently is okay in your world but not in mine?  Again, back to the Big12, this latter issue is one of the important Bob Bowlsby, the Commissioner, is referencing when he expresses concern about finishing the Fall.

Again, yes, I don’t care about people in nursing homes.  The fact, the point is...they were already to the point of needing care.  Then when they move covid patients into nursing homes, you have deaths.  Kids being on college campuses isn’t going to risk people in nursing homes anymore than if they are all in their hometowns hanging out at bars.  
That’s just reality.  These kids aren’t sitting at home.

Of course everyone has a right to live. Some governors protected nursing homes, others put infected people in the nursing homes..

@infielddad posted:

Interesting how some like SBD try to put a political spin and try to put a pejorative spin on fact based statements. No matter how folks try to make it political, it is a fact that we are now over 100,000 dead and rising.  That impacts far more people and families than the measurement of death.

 

 

 

That mentioned Trump one time, the rest didn't directly make any reference to politics. Any one who knows me understands that while philosophically I lean conservative l have a very low opinion of both parties. I see no benefit that comes from them for the common man. If you aren't a lobbyists, a 35k a plate donor, Matt Damon or Rush Limbaugh their concern for you is limited to getting you to vote for them. Arguing amongst one another on some bulletin board is foolish and makes you nothing more than useful idiots. 

@infielddad posted:

There are a range of numbers for nursing home/long term care deaths.  So they did not deserve to live? Their families did not deserve to have them live, to be with them at the time they left this world? The first responders and doctors and nurses just needed to gut it up and risk their health to try and save those lives?

So what you're implying, is that if all those people in those nursing homes, if they wouldn't have became ill with the coronavirus, they would have lived forever? Or they would have died of something else and that would have been OK. Anything but corona. 

Everyone dies SBD. Those who die from Corona do not deserve to have the risk of infection and death spread by those who won't accept or follow the very best medical guidance.

 Some  number of the deaths in the facilities being referenced are Veterans or in VA facilities.  They served their country in Viet Nam, Korea, Iraq, and possibly some in WWII.  Some of those in the facilities are spouses and family members of those who served so that posters could come on here on Memorial Day weekend and post that, apparently, those lives really don't matter.  Seems sad to me, really.

Elderly people do not deserve to die. I’m tired of hearing it. Many state governments failed elderly people in terms of protecting them. Almost 80% of the people who died were 70 and older. This was not a reason to send everyone else home from work. 

Do we try to save every life? No, we don’t. If we did the speed limit would be 10 mph. Every cross walk would have a traffic light. Every street would have guard railed bike lanes. The government calculates an acceptable level of  death and determines limits and laws.

@baseballhs posted:

Again, yes, I don’t care about people in nursing homes. 

WHOA!

Hopefully your tune will change when or if you are ever in the position of having elderly parents (or in-laws, as in my case)! It was a burden, but Grace saw me thru that 17 months from Mar 2008-Aug 2009. I'm nearly 70, & hopefully won't wind there. but I know my children will answer the call, if need be.

Sorry for going off Big 12!

It’s called sarcasm. I too am sick of this party line anytime anyone says they want things to open.  I don’t think anyone on Earth would say they don’t care if people die.  I don’t think playing football in stadiums with 25% of fans correlates to people in nursing homes dying. It is far more about the way they were handled.

@infielddad posted:

Everyone dies SBD. Those who die from Corona do not deserve to have the risk of infection and death spread by those who won't accept or follow the very best medical guidance.

 

And what about the kids stuck at home with abusive parents that school is a refuge for. Or the ones who get their only decent meal while at school. The people who are going to lose their homes (among other things) because they lost their job in the midst of 20% plus unemployment. The kids who have worked their whole lives for the dream of playing college ball and maybe beyond. Do they deserve to have their lives altered or destroyed? To be blunt, screw a bunch of people just starting life's journey or a bunch at life's end? Because IMO that's what this is getting down too. 

@baseballhs posted:

It’s called sarcasm. I too am sick of this party line anytime anyone says they want things to open.  I don’t think anyone on Earth would say they don’t care if people die.  I don’t think playing football in stadiums with 25% of fans correlates to people in nursing homes dying. It is far more about the way they were handled.

I didn't catch that remark as sarcasm but I am glad that you explained.

Do you think that if states had been better prepared we might not be having this discussion? 

What do you do when your ER, your ICU, your hospital rooms are filled to capacity as well as  corridors,  hallways, no ventilators, when your staff is recycling PPE daily when it's supposed to be after every patient, or you are understaffed because your staff becomes ill.  Not to mention governors are on the phone  day and night begging for equipment.  I am not putting the blame on anyone because, THEY JUST DID NOT KNOW!  And neither did  government healthcare systems that were overwhelmed such as Medicare, Medicaid.  Do you know their protocols?  

Actually, because of  what has happened, governors, state representatives, county and city officials, CDC, OSHA, NCAA, conference officials, university Board of Directors, university Presidents,  professors, athletic departments, coaches etc. are working around the clock on a plan, that has to be approved, so that it will be safe when and if every student arrives on campus.  Yes, we know Texas is allowing schools to open up, but there aren't a lot of guarantees. It will be interesting to see how states fair in the next few weeks.

Do not assume that all is well. There is much to be done so that your son and others can go play baseball, maybe, next spring. Also do not assume baseball will be played at all, as this is a step by step roll out.  

As a parent, what are you doing with your son to protect the universities staff or his coaches, other teammates?

What is happening at VA hospitals should be disturbing  and unexcusable to each and every one of us. 

I dont mean to get on you but we should all be in this together, we should be caring  and respectful of each other.  

@SomeBaseballDad posted:

And what about the kids stuck at home with abusive parents that school is a refuge for. Or the ones who get their only decent meal while at school. The people who are going to lose their homes (among other things) because they lost their job in the midst of 20% plus unemployment. The kids who have worked their whole lives for the dream of playing college ball and maybe beyond. Do they deserve to have their lives altered or destroyed? To be blunt, screw a bunch of people just starting life's journey or a bunch at life's end? Because IMO that's what this is getting down too. 

Well, since you brought it up, when I began college my friends were going to fight a needless war in Vietnam.  Most came home, some wounded, some in a box, many couldn't cope and to this day live in the streets, many died from chemicals they had no clue were being used until they became ill.

How does your life get altered or destroyed because you cant play baseball?

From the tone of the Pac-12 message in the OP, it sounds like colleges are going to use the athletes as test cases, to see how the virus plays out when they bring students back to campus.  It's not a bad idea, ahead of bringing back the full student body for fall, but I hope that they are telling the athletes that they are guinea pigs.

By the same token, there are many colleges that have students living off-campus in the summer; I wonder whether those colleges are keeping an eye on those students, to see what is happening given their way of distancing, partying, etc.

I'd point out that college dorms are in some ways very like nursing homes and cruise ships, or worse, since students have to share bathrooms.  What happened in nursing homes was really terrible, especially since, in hindsight, they should have known it was coming, given that the first outbreak was in a nursing home.  Was it the fault of governments for not providing supplies and education, or of the nursing home managers for not spending money, or of the families and staff in individual homes for not understanding the dangers?  And, how many of those issues will persist in schools and colleges?

We knew from Italy that elderly people were most susceptible.  Yes, nursing homes should have been handled differently from the beginning.  They probably should be from now on. Grocery stores should disinfect carts, probably always should have.  There are things that should probably be different from now on in several areas. Referencing ERs over capacity, not enough ventilators, etc was NYC and the surrounding areas. I don’t know that it was replicated anywhere else. If it was, it was very few places. We have been open for 3-4 weeks now. Every restaurant I go to is full (at their smaller capacity) parks are packed ( I had to circle 3 times and then park on the road at a park yesterday).  Lakes are full of boats tying up.  People are out.  Our school zip codes of 30,000+, has 6 new cases since we opened, for a total of 42 since this started.  College kids have been getting together long before the state opened.  Our hospitals are empty.  I can say that I’m excited my son will get to report and not feel guilty about that.  This may never go away and immune compromised or elderly may always need to take special precautions, but for the average person, life does need to go on.

in regards to Vietnam and playing baseball, that was not the reference (at least I didn’t read it that way).  It was that keeping everyone home, or loss of jobs/despair has raised suicides, child abuse, spousal abuse and kids not being fed.  A little boy was found chained up in a garage last week and he said he had been there since school let out.  There are lots of consequences of this that have nothing to do with getting sick.

I'm sorry but I just don't understand what some people's line of thought is. It's just as likely that we won't develop a vaccine or therapeutic as it is we will. So how long do we hide in the basement? You do understand the government can't keep printing money and handing it out forever. It doesn't take a profoundly intelligent person to see the damage being done to the country and economy. All because of, what is to the vast majority of people, the flu.

I'd like to meet up here in five years and see what some of you have to say then, because the first few dominoes of the economy have been knock over, but there will be many more to follow. And there's a good chance some of them are going to land squarely on top of some of the children and grandchildren of posters here. 

@SomeBaseballDad posted:

I'm sorry but I just don't understand what some people's line of thought is. It's just as likely that we won't develop a vaccine or therapeutic as it is we will. So how long do we hide in the basement? You do understand the government can't keep printing money and handing it out forever. It doesn't take a profoundly intelligent person to see the damage being done to the country and economy. All because of, what is to the vast majority of people, the flu.

I'd like to meet up here in five years and see what some of you have to say then, because the first few dominoes of the economy have been knock over, but there will be many more to follow. And there's a good chance some of them are going to land squarely on top of some of the children and grandchildren of posters here. 

Who said that you should hide in the basement? I don't ever remember ANYONE stating that!!!!

You are right about the government keep handing out money. I know some people who won't go back to work because they  make more money staying home.  Wait until they have to pay taxes on that free money.  I just see things and have to shake my head.  Crowded beaches, crowded bars and lakes in some states.  Hasn't anyone learned anything?

PPP and the Cares act money should have gone to the people who truly needed it.  No oversight.

If you are addressing the last few sentences to me, I have grown responsible children. My daughter has 2 teenage step kids who are not allowed to go hang out with just anyone. And son is being careful as he can so that he is able to be healthy when and if they return. So don't go there.

@TPM posted:

If you are addressing the last few sentences to me, I have grown responsible children. My daughter has 2 teenage step kids who are not allowed to go hang out with just anyone. And son is being careful as he can so that he is able to be healthy when and if they return. So don't go there.

 

 

 

It's aimed at anyone here who is fear-mongering. Old people die, that's what they do. That's what my dad did less than a year ago. He was 83 and 83 year olds die. He didn't die of coronavirus but if he did would that somehow make it worse? You can't burn down the world because old people might die. 

Everyone agrees that the economy crashing is a disaster.  But the key to sustaining the economy long-term is public confidence.  We are all living in a huge science experiment, and no-one will know how it will turn out (although we can look at some other countries for clues).  Right now, people are going to restaurants and parks and for haircuts, that will either turn out well or it won't.  If it does, then hooray.  If it doesn't, then we will be more deeply screwed.  So why on earth can't people come together and agree that the right thing to do is to re-open, but cautiously?  Re-open businesses, but wear masks.  I've not yet heard a good reason not to wear a mask when around other people.

Somebaseballdad is right that old people die, and InfieldDad is right that they shouldn't have to die through stupidity.  You're both right!  And it's not just old people who die from this.  Choices one person makes affect everyone else too; some people's carelessness might impact the health of the economy.  Why take that chance, in cases where it's easy not to?

Big 12 June 15, SEC and Louisville June 8, Clemson can’t be far behind.  Hope to see the rest of the ACC, Big 10, and  PAC and the Forgotten 5 follow shortly.  NASCAR and Golf are back,   NBA planning for late July, NFL is trending on time.  MLB...man I hope they get it figured out, but who knows.

Right or wrong, sports are a huge part of American life and the American economy.   We need sports.

@TPM posted:

How does your life get altered or destroyed because you cant play baseball?

 

Well let's see how bad I can make myself look. So the kid would have been drafted out of HS. Granted late round but still drafted. I said no, college was the right thing to do. That didn't work. Coach misled us as to why he wanted our son/son could have worked harder. Transferred last year, has put a lot of work into correcting deficiencies, and looking forward to this season. Now that may not happen. There's a good chance he might not play baseball again if they cancel the coming season. Is his life destroyed, no. Is it altered, yes. Will a lot of hard work and money spent have been for nothing, yes. As harsh as it may sound a lot of young people's hopes and dreams, and the future of a lot of hard working people, are being crushed because 90 year old grandpa may die this year of covid-19 instead of next from something else.

Disclaimer. If I overheard the kids talk about putting me in a nursing home they better hide the guns because that's not how I want to spend my end days. So that clouds my judgment.

There is also the fact that the average covid death age was 82, but the average of death in the US is 79. Is it sad, of course. Surprising? No.

My Dad was a WWII veteran.

He died just after Xmas in 2006.

i was holding his hand and felt and shared his last breath and his time here was no longer. And I held his hand.

To think those lives and experiences, which Covid too often makes impossible, are being contrasted with “my son’s “ baseball??????

I’m sorry for your loss. No one is saying my sons baseball is more important than life. Who said that?. No one wants to see people miss those moments, and it’s not all about baseball.  That’s a small part of a big picture where people are losing their jobs, houses, businesses that they put everything into. Kids are losing time at school, that for some is their only time to feel safe and cared for.  There is a big picture that goes far beyond what you are trying to minimize it down to.

If you had any history on the HSBBW baseballhs, you would know our sons college Coach died  in the midst of their NCAA Regional and the team, on one hours notice was told their choices were to play in one hour or forfeit. There is a thread in those Golden which captures those days of baseball and death 

In the Summer of 2003, one of the most wonderful people and college baseball teammates was killed as he and his Father drove from Houston to Austin after a Cubs/Astros game.

The 10th man award in the NECBL is named for that young man.

i know PLENTY about baseball and death and watching and feeling for an entire baseball team and coaching staff. I have seen our son and his teammates and his coaches“ lose” in indescribable ways.

@infielddad posted:

As to the new beginning position, it seems like you are trying to play two games on one field at the same time. The game which started  in our Country in January but was not recognized l far too late is still in the early innings. Death rates and the financial and emotional impact are still unfolding and will do so for months into the future. Recent trends, which I assume is being called the "new beginning," clearly need to be followed. Early information  show increases in a number of  States including those with reopening like Texas, Southern  Florida, Alabama, etc.

 

 

Increases in what? Infections? What did you think would happen with opening and more testing? Hospitalization and death rates are down or at worse flat across FL. Heck, even the daily positives are pretty much flat.

@infielddad posted:

My Dad was a WWII veteran.

He died just after Xmas in 2006.

i was holding his hand and felt and shared his last breath and his time here was no longer. And I held his hand.

To think those lives and experiences, which Covid too often makes impossible, are being contrasted with “my son’s “ baseball??????

My grandmother died a four years ago.  I was at Lakepoint with my son.   Planned on flying out of Atlanta to Ohio to see my grandma.   She called me and said,  “don’t come, life is for the living.  You stay there and live your life.   I lived mine.”   She knew how to  do it.

Not everyone has your take on life/death.  My grandmother knew what were the valuable moments in life, And she didn’t consider her death to be one.  She definitely didn’t consider it more important than my son’s baseball tournament.

Your  story reminds me of a game we played in 11 or 12u. It was a team we were supposed to beat. We couldn’t put anything together offensively. About the second or 3rd inning, news spread that the coaches wife, and pitcher’s mom hasd lost her battle with cancer that morning. She had told him her greatest joy was watching him play. Pitched an incredible game and we didn’t score a run.  Not really on topic, but a good story. Still makes me emotional.

Big 10 is letting every school determine it's own schedule. College of medicine researchers back May 26, coaches and staff back June 1, football athletes June 8, men's and women's basketball, June 15. No mention of baseball. My guess is sometime in July.

It's all part of what the email to parents called a "pilot program involving research and the Department of Intercollegiate Athletics to test health and safety protocols in a phased return to campus."

This board since mid March every time somebody posts anything related to a reopening

Poster - Here is something positive. I hope this is a sign that things are starting to progress and I have something to look forward to. 

Rest of the board - So you want people to die? 100k isn't enough for you?