Bigger/Faster/Stronger (and Priorities)

Young kids need to work at every part of the game.  It's all important.

Just an example, follow this kid's future. I'm hoping he is drafted in the first round next month.

https://www.perfectgame.org/Pl...ofile.aspx?ID=353981

I am right where you are with 2 2021s. They hit almost every day, they work with a trainer twice a week for speed and agility as well as strength training. They practice with their team twice a week and have hitting, pitching, and catching lessons those days also. They also  play football, basketball, run cross country and track. When they have time they like to run a 5k just for the fun of it. With 2 of them they are always pushing each other and compete in everything they do with each other.

They are still 13 and 6'2 and weight 150 and 155. As far as 60 times they want to get them below 7 when they run again, the last time they ran in February they ran a 7.16 and 7.21. I'm not sure they will get it but at least I know that they have been working toward a goal, even if it is just a short term goal. It's fun to just sit back and watch them because I don't have to push them, they push each other.

My son is same age and grad year. He's starting workouts again to improve in each of the three areas: bigger, faster, stronger...except we've added one more to the "football T-Shirt slogan" in that he wants to get "better".

Mine is 6-2 and about 165lbs. For him, the "Bigger" part of the equation is to add "good weight" to his frame. Not necessarily to bulk up. He needs to fill out his frame and he will, over time. His goal is to add 20 pounds for freshman year. 10-15 lbs might be more reasonable but that's his goal. We'll see how it goes.

You can't get faster unless you get stronger. So, he works on explosiveness and improving core strength. He also does band work with his team (when they do them). 

PGStaff posted:

Young kids need to work at every part of the game.  It's all important.

Totally agree with this, but (OP) you and your son can't drink all the KoolAid offered by everyone.  You will either get very sick or drown. 

cabbagedad posted:

PGStaff posted:

Young kids need to work at every part of the game.  It's all important.

Totally agree with this, but (OP) you and your son can't drink all the KoolAid offered by everyone.  You will either get very sick or drown. 

I appreciate that.  Can you elaborate, please?  Want to make sure I understand you

Projectability and body type is what will get you noticed. Most high school / showcase kids are pathetically weak and would not likely be able to handle a college freshman's workload in the classroom, weight room, field, and cafeteria - much less pro ball.

Strength and endurance go a long, long way.

It has bee said many times "the big strong kid has to prove he can't play as opposed to the smaller kid has prove that he can play"

Probably the best advice my son has been given thus far is "train more than you play".  

Kyle Boddy posted:

Projectability and body type is what will get you noticed. Most high school / showcase kids are pathetically weak and would not likely be able to handle a college freshman's workload in the classroom, weight room, field, and cafeteria - much less pro ball.

Strength and endurance go a long, long way.

Very true!  

Be 6' 4", left handed, and run a 6.5 60.

If in every other way you fail completely as a baseball player you'll still get recruited/drafted.

I dont think he needs to get any bigger. Do some lifting to get stronger  but just from natural growth he probably will be 6"2, 185 when he is 17 which is plenty big enough for any level.

Arm strength definitely would be a huge plus and hitting mechanics so that he can use his size.

3and2Fastball posted:

cabbagedad posted:

PGStaff posted:

Young kids need to work at every part of the game.  It's all important.

Totally agree with this, but (OP) you and your son can't drink all the KoolAid offered by everyone.  You will either get very sick or drown. 

I appreciate that.  Can you elaborate, please?  Want to make sure I understand you

Yeah, 3and2...

You have a kid with a projectable body and a passion for the game.  You are an actively involved parent (mostly a good thing) who seems to be on top of  the research to make sure that son is working on improvement from every angle - conditioning, defensive reps, cuts, speed & agility, velo, right travel team, right events, etc.  There also seems to be a sense of urgency and a sense of "can't miss that key event". 

With that combination, I think you will find yourself more and more bombarded with opportunities that you think are very important (and some are).  I suspect you will hear from travel organizations, hitting instructors, gyms, camps, fitness instructors, showcases, recruiting services, "friend" advice, etc., etc.   You and/or son can find yourselves in overload mode in a hurry - thus getting "sick or drown".  Yes, every part of the game is important.  But what is most important is that your son continues to enjoy playing it.  If you hit "overboard" or "overload", he may start finding it difficult to continue enjoying the game for the game.

He doesn't have to fix everything and solve every problem now.  It's a process.  Sometimes the process can be accelerated with some good instruction or some other big breakthrough.  But, for the most part, it takes time, it evolves.  Try not to feel like you have to fill every minute with improvement opportunities.  Try not to allow unnecessary false deadlines to cause unnecessary anxiety.  Have a reasonable plan.  Be prepared to have to say no to many opportunities.  Let natural maturation take it's course.  Stop and smell the roses along the way and stay healthy.  Mentally and physically.  Both of you.

Kyle is 100 percent correct. I encourage those who do not,  go watch college baseball and take your son. I don't care what level we are talking about. Go to a game and sit close to the dugouts. Look at the physicality of the players. I am not talking about how tall all of them are because that is totally exaggerated many times. And you can't do anything about your height so who cares. Look at the sheer physicality of the players.

Your not training to be a HS player. You better not be using those around you and those your competing against as the measuring stick. You need to be constantly working on getting bigger, stronger and faster. You need to constantly be working on becoming a better hitter. You need to constantly be working on gaining more arm strength, total athleticism.

You will never throw it too hard, run too fast, hit it too hard. The focus should be on getting bigger, stronger, faster, more athletic all the time. And you should also be working just as hard on hitting, fielding and arm strength. It's the total package don't sacrifice one for the other there is no need to.

MOST HS PLAYERS ARE INDEED PATHETICALLY WEAK! That is a fact. They lack core strength, they have horrendous nutritional habits, they have absolutely no clue the difference between them and the average all in college player. You can be the best HS player at your school and not be capable of competing at the college level. What did that HS measuring stick do for you? Go see what you will be up against.

Of course you can wait until you show up as a Freshman in college and then decide to start. Good luck with that.

cabbagedad posted:

3and2Fastball posted:

cabbagedad posted:

PGStaff posted:

Young kids need to work at every part of the game.  It's all important.

Totally agree with this, but (OP) you and your son can't drink all the KoolAid offered by everyone.  You will either get very sick or drown. 

I appreciate that.  Can you elaborate, please?  Want to make sure I understand you

There also seems to be a sense of urgency and a sense of "can't miss that key event". 

With that combination, I think you will find yourself more and more bombarded with opportunities that you think are very important (and some are).  I suspect you will hear from travel organizations, hitting instructors, gyms, camps, fitness instructors, showcases, recruiting services, "friend" advice, etc., etc.  ......  Be prepared to have to say no to many opportunities.  Let natural maturation take it's course.  Stop and smell the roses along the way and stay healthy.  Mentally and physically.  Both of you.

Thanks for the reminders, I genuinely appreciate it.   My wife & I talk a lot about "slow cooking" our kid, letting him take his time growing up.  Letting him evolve academically & athletically.

There is plenty we are saying no to already, but having been through this before with an older kid in a different sport, I don't think one can get too many reminders of what you said above, which is genuinely helpful.

To me that is all the more reason for setting appropriate priorities in terms of training.  This thread has been very helpful

Over the winter my son went to a Sunday hitting program with a very well known hitting guru.  After the 2nd week he told all the kids that each of them had mechanics that were good enough.  He said that to really differentiate themselves they needed to become as strong and athletic as possible.  What I found really interesting is that he said that if they have the chance to take live BP during the week they should do it.  However they should not waste time hitting off a tee or doing soft-toss, but instead should be in the gym.

I agree with Coach May on taking your son to see the players at the next level.  Heck just look at the top 16u,17U and 18U travel organizations and you will see some of what coach is talking about. 

I can remember taking my son to see a Florida Gators game when he was 12. We happened to be lucky enough to be near the Razorback's bus as they unloaded.....aboslute monsters coming off that bus!  

On the other hand....becareful how much strength and bulk your player puts on as it may work against him.  We get to see pitchers make this mistake frequently....get too strong too quick and their ligaments and tendons are not developed enough for the added strength. Plus, muscle bulk without flexibility/mobility is just as detrimental.  

Excellent question & great responses. I am just going to share what we are currently doing & have done as it fits given I have a 2021 as well.

First off, there is such a thing as too much throwing. Be careful here, especially if your guy sees a good bit of mound time. Always be asking about their arm status. Do not feel like you have to play 7 days a week with MS ball / trvl on weekends etc. 

Our current MS has games Mon & Wed, practices Tues, Thurs, Fri. They have a good coach & he gets plenty of reps here. If not, we would do extra after getting home.

Saturdays, he goes to lift with an outstanding, knowledgeable trainer. Cleans, Box Jumps, Squats, Core, limited upper & tons of post & pre foam rolls & stretches. They MUST learn the proper technique while attempting this training! This is about an hour in season maintenance workout just on Saturdays. In the off season, this is ramped up to about 1 1/2 hr program 3X / week. We will throw a bit, maybe 10 min at 80% after this when we get home.

Sundays, he goes fishing or whatever & is completely down.

Coach May is dead on about nutrition. I cook or prepare about 95% of everything he eats. After practice I will have maybe beef jerky, a banana etc for a snack on the way home, for example.

For speed & agility I have used Jedi mind tricks here. He likes to shoot hoops in the driveway. I went & installed a quality adjustable, concrete stabilized goal outside. I give him alley oops, have dunk contests, ask him to see if he can dunk LH as good as RH. We creep it up so now he can flush a volleyball at 10'. (he is 6'1" 165) He is getting explosive exercise & does not even know it. This happens probably 4 X a week. When he was younger, I used a trampoline for this (He jumps up & I toss him a football & see how many in a row he can catch) or, I would throw the football on the roof & it would wobble down erratically & he would have to catch it before it hit the grass.  This stuff obviously for the little guys. Make it fun.

Last Summer he started with a certified speed & agility guy who is top notch. He was always fast but by cleaning up his technique & focusing on form, there has been great progress.

The result of all of this thus far is 80-83 on the mound with a 60 right about 7 flat (7.12 last Fall).  30 was 3.89 last Fall at Team USA NTIS in Cary.

It is a continuing process & all of these daily efforts compound over time & add up. Enjoy the journey, make it fun (as much as possible) & let them have a major hand in deciding what actions they want to take. 

Thought I would update this.  He is a Soph in high school now and 6'1" 195

About 3 months after I posted the original post here he tried out for 3 of the best travel teams in our state & didn't make any of them.  He ran a 8.7 60, threw 70 across the infield, and had a 67 Exit Velo (at age 14.5).  Fortunately one of the travel teams saw enough in him to invite him to train with them all that winter, in order to help him develop.

The feedback he got was "he has some Baseball skills, but he needs to get Stronger, Faster, & more Flexible." (Sound familiar?!)

He started training with a former Power 5 strength & conditioning coordinator in order to learn the proper way to lift (and run) and got to work... Lifting 4 times a week, doing long toss & j bands, and hitting 5-6 days a week

12 months later and he ran a 7.8 60, 78 Exit Velo, and threw 81 across the infield.  A few weeks ago he had an Exit Velo of 83.   He is seeing the results of strength training.  He is playing 16U this summer with one of those teams that cut him 18 months ago, and working harder than ever... And he's pretty much been told he is exclusively a 3B/1B... He went from barely being able to do a push-up to deadlifting 335

And the top 3B's from our area are D1 commits with 95+ Exit Velo's and run 7.2's or less, and throw 87 plus across the infield.... He's trained with & played with or against a lot of those guys, and even with "Dad Goggles" on, you can see the difference.  Bottom line is he needs to get Bigger Faster Stronger.

Just want to thank everyone here who has given such great advice.  The kid loves Baseball!

Glad to hear 3&2, thanks for sharing.  

My opinion is until you are 14/15 mostly work on skill, speed and do BWEs like push ups and sit ups. You can lift at 12 and it won't kill you but it is a waste of time as the hormones have not kicked in yet and a few push ups will give you basically the same result. At 14-15 however weights will make you stronger really fast so this is the best time to start real weights.

It is really important to work speed as kid though and specifically stride frequency. You can develope stride length later but if you haven't developed the motor ability to turn over the legs fast as a kid you wont get fast no matter how strong you are.

Very limited recruiting options for 1B/3B. Any interest in pitching?

MidAtlanticDad posted:

Very limited recruiting options for 1B/3B. Any interest in pitching?

Hey, whatever helps the team, Coach!

We're actually seeing quite a few Mid Majors, JUCO's, & D3's in the midwest recruiting 1B/3B's.  The bigtime Power 5's etc are still recruiting mostly Shortstops and spreading them around the infield, however the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th Tier teams etc seem to be looking for more pop in their offense.  Kirkwood (one of the top JUCO's in Iowa) just signed a 2020 1B with a 8.7 60 & 99 Exit Velo.

Provided my kid stays healthy, he'll get an opportunity to play somewhere as a corners guy (according to some 3rd Party people we trust) even if it is the lowest level JUCO in Wyoming or something (!).  I sense he might be a Baseball lifer who will go into coaching once he's done playing.  We'll see, a lot can change of course.  In the meantime he needs to get Bigger Faster Stronger.   The GPA is strong, that'll help, but he has no interest in the HA route.

Yep, bigger, faster, stronger!

I remember when my son was a freshman in HS, seniors looked liked monsters compared.  Now he is a senior, guess what college players look like monsters compared.  

Now compare college players to MLB baseball, HUGE difference.  

Bigger, faster, stronger is in your control.  Priority one throughout any athletic career.