It is interesting...I think he's alot right.
Although football is a "tougher" sport (BB catchers might disagree!)...I believe it is much more difficult to hit a nasty curve, or 95 mph fastball...and degree of difficulty may play. (Not that blacks are not CAPABLE of doing so...that is simply NOT the case)
Lots of factors.
Money is a recurring theme throughout this thread. All kids are motivated more or less by money, and there are a lot of black kids that fully understand their best chance at making real money is via a college education.
As for the quick fix, I couldn't agree with Rice more. Some lives are in greater need of repair than others.
One last thought...wouldn't more college schollys get greater athletes of all ethnicities playing the greatest game?
As for the quick fix, I couldn't agree with Rice more. Some lives are in greater need of repair than others.
One last thought...wouldn't more college schollys get greater athletes of all ethnicities playing the greatest game?
In the long run schollys would help, but it goes way back...much earlier in life. (I believe this has been discussed), but it falls on the fact that a young kid can walk to a Bball court-without Dad...someone usually has a ball. Baseball requires more time, effort and accessibility to fields. And frankly, in many peer circles it is not considered cool to play baseball.
PG started a thread on childhood memories of baseball and how it sparks a lifetime love of the game. That is pertinent here.
PG started a thread on childhood memories of baseball and how it sparks a lifetime love of the game. That is pertinent here.
IMHO African-Americans and other minorities have chosen to avoid playing baseball
For them it is much easier in football and basketball...the requisites to play are more defined and easily understood and less likely to be influenced by factors that have nothing to do with their athletic desire, talent and abilities.
JMO
For them it is much easier in football and basketball...the requisites to play are more defined and easily understood and less likely to be influenced by factors that have nothing to do with their athletic desire, talent and abilities.
JMO
LLorton, your opinion is actually an accusation. And an ignorant one at that. If I read the first line you wrote correctly, you feel black kids avoid contact on the ballfield with white people because the white people are racist and treat them unfairly. If that were true, we should see lots of black kids playing baseball by themselves, with no whites around. But we don't, do we. Using your logic, we shouldn't see any black kids around any organized sport where whites are in charge. They would be relegated to the bench in whatever the sport and want to avoid it.
Reading this thread and articles on other websites, there is a noticable pattern. While many reasons are given for the decline of blacks in baseball, all the reasons point to problems with someone or something other than the black kids who are playing. If only they had more places to play, if only they had more money, if only they had a better family life, if only MLB would do more, if only the current black pros would do more, if only if only if only, etc, etc. One need only go back and re-read any article on this subject since Jackie Robinson day to see that this is true.
The reality is that the white athlete is the one who suffers from institutionalized racism in this country, not the black athlete. But you will never see that kind of article in the mainstream media.
Reading this thread and articles on other websites, there is a noticable pattern. While many reasons are given for the decline of blacks in baseball, all the reasons point to problems with someone or something other than the black kids who are playing. If only they had more places to play, if only they had more money, if only they had a better family life, if only MLB would do more, if only the current black pros would do more, if only if only if only, etc, etc. One need only go back and re-read any article on this subject since Jackie Robinson day to see that this is true.
The reality is that the white athlete is the one who suffers from institutionalized racism in this country, not the black athlete. But you will never see that kind of article in the mainstream media.
Baseball and basketball, Plus some other sport's.
Do not allow you to take a few years off and then come back and play at a high caliper.
It just doesn't work that way for those sports.
You have to play, and play, and play, every year for the most part.
I believe a kid could have success in football and other sport's even if he/she never played it as a youth.
Maybe some taller player's may be able to play basketball later in there hs school years.
But not a point guard with ball handleing skills.
But baseball, you can't afford to take a couple of years off and perform well.
It take's playing time, and lots of it.
Fields and equipment.
And then the human factor.
You have to have someone willing to put in the time with the youth to promote the sport.
It really is that simple.
EH
Do not allow you to take a few years off and then come back and play at a high caliper.
It just doesn't work that way for those sports.
You have to play, and play, and play, every year for the most part.
I believe a kid could have success in football and other sport's even if he/she never played it as a youth.
Maybe some taller player's may be able to play basketball later in there hs school years.
But not a point guard with ball handleing skills.
But baseball, you can't afford to take a couple of years off and perform well.
It take's playing time, and lots of it.
Fields and equipment.
And then the human factor.
You have to have someone willing to put in the time with the youth to promote the sport.
It really is that simple.
EH
quote:
The reality is that the white athlete is the one who suffers from institutionalized racism in this country, not the black athlete. But you will never see that kind of article in the mainstream media.
This statement transcends ignorance. There's good reason why you won't see this sort of bigotry in the media. David Duke might write it, but no one in their right mind would publish.
The whole racism aspect of this thread is near ridiculous. On both sides. I don't think most coaches would give a hoot what your skin color is if you can play. Are there some? Sure, perhaps, but they would represent a very small percentage.
No legislation, no guilt, and no blame. That's a waste of time. On the other hand, baseball people should always be interested in promoting this great game, and reaching out and getting some kids interested who would otherwise play basketball or football.. hey, why not?
Even in the white neighborhoods here, basketball has largely replaced baseball as the national pasttime. And that worries me. We should promote the game across the board to reinvigorate it!
No legislation, no guilt, and no blame. That's a waste of time. On the other hand, baseball people should always be interested in promoting this great game, and reaching out and getting some kids interested who would otherwise play basketball or football.. hey, why not?
Even in the white neighborhoods here, basketball has largely replaced baseball as the national pasttime. And that worries me. We should promote the game across the board to reinvigorate it!
Dear Old Dad said: LLorton, your opinion is actually an accusation. And an ignorant one at that. If I read the first line you wrote correctly, you feel black kids avoid contact on the ballfield with white people because the white people are racist and treat them unfairly. If that were true, we should see lots of black kids playing baseball by themselves, with no whites around. But we don't, do we. Using your logic, we shouldn't see any black kids around any organized sport where whites are in charge. They would be relegated to the bench in whatever the sport and want to avoid it.
_____________________________________________________
I think we can all agree that as any parent will attest to, no matter what their background or ethnicity, their own child is the most important entity in any athletic endeavor.
The only inference and point that I was making is that minority parents will encourage their children to play in activities where they know that their own child will have a long term chance at a full scholarship if that child shows a real knack for excellence in athletics.
Right now, the way things are, one does not have to be a genious to deduce that minorities are not being promoted at the same level as white athletes in baseball. How do we determine that? Most would say by looking at the results of who is playing on the fields.
If I was a parent watching the College World Series and didn't know any better, as a minority parent, I would definitely discourage my child from playing baseball, no matter how great I thought the game was. Why? because one can see that African-American ballplayers are not making it through the developmental levels. Does this mean that great athletes that are on display in football and basketball just can't make it in baseball? Can one say that they just don't have what it takes? I think a member of the LA Dodger organization some years back made that kind of statement about why African-Americans couldn't be GM's. He was run out of baseball.
IMHO there is no one single reason why African-Americans and other minority players aren't thriving in baseball, but it is not ignorant to deduce from the history of baseball that inter-racial relationships aren't affected by economic class and strata. As more African-Americans enter the middle-class and other higher levels of economic ability to pay I am sure that things will change.
Lastly, lets not ignore that ticket prices at baseball games require that baseball fans have a level of discretionary income to afford the cost. That reality is not lost on the MLB when it provides its marketing and financial support for development programs at all levels including LL. HS, and colleges. It is competing for that dollar from every family to spend it on baseball. African-Americans have made their choice of where to put their dollars and for now it looks like that choice is football and basketball.
I would like to see the organizations compete more for the African-American and other minority ballplayers instead of outsourcing that talent from offshore. But I don't think that will change until there is more of a base of African-American families that truely believe their prized possession, their child, will get a better shake to develope in baseball.
_____________________________________________________
I think we can all agree that as any parent will attest to, no matter what their background or ethnicity, their own child is the most important entity in any athletic endeavor.
The only inference and point that I was making is that minority parents will encourage their children to play in activities where they know that their own child will have a long term chance at a full scholarship if that child shows a real knack for excellence in athletics.
Right now, the way things are, one does not have to be a genious to deduce that minorities are not being promoted at the same level as white athletes in baseball. How do we determine that? Most would say by looking at the results of who is playing on the fields.
If I was a parent watching the College World Series and didn't know any better, as a minority parent, I would definitely discourage my child from playing baseball, no matter how great I thought the game was. Why? because one can see that African-American ballplayers are not making it through the developmental levels. Does this mean that great athletes that are on display in football and basketball just can't make it in baseball? Can one say that they just don't have what it takes? I think a member of the LA Dodger organization some years back made that kind of statement about why African-Americans couldn't be GM's. He was run out of baseball.
IMHO there is no one single reason why African-Americans and other minority players aren't thriving in baseball, but it is not ignorant to deduce from the history of baseball that inter-racial relationships aren't affected by economic class and strata. As more African-Americans enter the middle-class and other higher levels of economic ability to pay I am sure that things will change.
Lastly, lets not ignore that ticket prices at baseball games require that baseball fans have a level of discretionary income to afford the cost. That reality is not lost on the MLB when it provides its marketing and financial support for development programs at all levels including LL. HS, and colleges. It is competing for that dollar from every family to spend it on baseball. African-Americans have made their choice of where to put their dollars and for now it looks like that choice is football and basketball.
I would like to see the organizations compete more for the African-American and other minority ballplayers instead of outsourcing that talent from offshore. But I don't think that will change until there is more of a base of African-American families that truely believe their prized possession, their child, will get a better shake to develope in baseball.
quote:(a) I think we can all agree that as any parent will attest to, no matter what their background or ethnicity, their own child is the most important entity in any athletic endeavor.
(b) The only inference and point that I was making is that parents will encourage their children to play in activities where they know that their own child will have a long term chance at a full scholarship if that child shows a real knack for excellence in athletics.
(c) Right now, the way things are, one does not have to be a genious to deduce that minorities are not being promoted at the same level as white athletes in baseball. How do we determine that? Most would say by looking at the results of who is playing on the fields.
This thread is starting to degenerate imho.
(a) We can all agree to that.
(b) Say what? My kids played baseball, basketball, and football when they were young because they enjoyed playing. I never ran across anyone white or black that said their kid was initially playing a sport for the scholarship opportunities. In high school, there were some of those type of decisions made, but that was well after a kid was already playing a given sport for the love/interest of/in the game.
(c) Are you serious? Lets look at the NBA and college basketball for that matter. Using your logic, you don't have to be a genious to deduce that whites are not being promoted at the same level as black athletes in basketball?
Curious why are you looking out over the field and seeing color btw? Isn't it possible people choose certain sports over others and it is no more complicated than that? Does everything have to be explained in terms of race? The economic arguments make some sense to me. The racial arguments do not.
ClevelandDad-You're right on with your last post. 
Sadly, logic does not seem to be important to a number of posters on this subject.
Sadly, logic does not seem to be important to a number of posters on this subject.
Let me give you another aspect on this question:
As those who know our team can tell you that we are quite diversified in our make up with whites, blacks, dominicans, puerto ricans etc on the roster.
Last year we were playing in PA and the coach of the other team asks us how we do it, meaning getting the kids we get. He continues to tell us that nearly 50% of the local school is Latino but none of them come out for baseball and he cannot figure out why.
Choices folks---choices
As those who know our team can tell you that we are quite diversified in our make up with whites, blacks, dominicans, puerto ricans etc on the roster.
Last year we were playing in PA and the coach of the other team asks us how we do it, meaning getting the kids we get. He continues to tell us that nearly 50% of the local school is Latino but none of them come out for baseball and he cannot figure out why.
Choices folks---choices
just wondering ...
wouldn't someone who encourages participation ONLY in groups with a certain racial make-up be by definition a .. racist?
speaking of team make-up, how 'bout our NBA Cavs??
they have short guys, tall guys ..
guys w/tatoos & w/out tatoos ..
guys that play & guys that sit ..
short haired guys, & Varejao with a mop on his head ..
wouldn't someone who encourages participation ONLY in groups with a certain racial make-up be by definition a .. racist?
speaking of team make-up, how 'bout our NBA Cavs??
they have short guys, tall guys ..
guys w/tatoos & w/out tatoos ..
guys that play & guys that sit ..
short haired guys, & Varejao with a mop on his head ..
A baseball team is made up of 9 players.
It takes two teams to play a game.
That's 18 human beings that choose to come together to participate in a great game called baseball.
Now granted, if you want to get fancy, you can always throw in some coaches, add a few umpires, some talent, a competitive nature, and walah.....now you're capable of making history.
IMHO, there are no other prerequisites required to play.
Its simply about human beings, playing the game.
When I watch a game, I see humans and notice different levels of talent.
Its simple, but it keeps me intrigued.
( would probably still enjoy watching the game if I could train my cats to play,..or even my pet goldfish.)
Its about the game. Not religion, language, color of eyeballs, or the size of a persons left pinky toe.
Its simply about the game.
It takes two teams to play a game.
That's 18 human beings that choose to come together to participate in a great game called baseball.
Now granted, if you want to get fancy, you can always throw in some coaches, add a few umpires, some talent, a competitive nature, and walah.....now you're capable of making history.
IMHO, there are no other prerequisites required to play.
Its simply about human beings, playing the game.
When I watch a game, I see humans and notice different levels of talent.
Its simple, but it keeps me intrigued.
( would probably still enjoy watching the game if I could train my cats to play,..or even my pet goldfish.)
Its about the game. Not religion, language, color of eyeballs, or the size of a persons left pinky toe.
Its simply about the game.