Do scouts and college coaches take into account the fact that northeast and cold weather kids have to work twice as hard in half the time to reach the levels of the warm weather kids?
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There's no question they take this into account and understand that cold weather high schoolers have less actual on-diamond experience than their southern counterparts.
I heard it directly from head coaches: "If I have a choice between two equally talented players, one from the south and one from the north, I am biased in favor of the northern kid, because he has more upside. Once he's practicing year round, he will get better faster than the kid who has played baseball year round his whole life."
I heard it directly from head coaches: "If I have a choice between two equally talented players, one from the south and one from the north, I am biased in favor of the northern kid, because he has more upside. Once he's practicing year round, he will get better faster than the kid who has played baseball year round his whole life."
Everything that Rob Kremer mentioned is true.
However, I don't know how anyone can take it into account that kids from the north are working any harder than the kids in the south. There are dedicated, hard working kids all over the country. They aren't all from the North! And there are kids from the north that are just as talented as anyone, anywhere.
The weather just makes it easier to get outdoors, which is an advantage. But talent is talent in the end.
However, I don't know how anyone can take it into account that kids from the north are working any harder than the kids in the south. There are dedicated, hard working kids all over the country. They aren't all from the North! And there are kids from the north that are just as talented as anyone, anywhere.
The weather just makes it easier to get outdoors, which is an advantage. But talent is talent in the end.
Yes, totally agree. I should have added: "all other things being equal..."
There's no reason to believe that northern kids have any better work ethic than warm weather kids. On the contrary, you could make a case that a warm weather player has already proven he has the ability to practice baseball year round, but that this is not yet clear about the northern kid.
But I am guessing that work ethic in HS players is completely unrelated to geography.
There's no reason to believe that northern kids have any better work ethic than warm weather kids. On the contrary, you could make a case that a warm weather player has already proven he has the ability to practice baseball year round, but that this is not yet clear about the northern kid.
But I am guessing that work ethic in HS players is completely unrelated to geography.
There are so many indoor facilties now. Kids living in cold weather have the opportunity to workout year round.
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The Northern boys get their work ethic started early on. Never shying away from a challenge...
But the young Southern boys aren't scared of taking on a challenge either...
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The Northern boys get their work ethic started early on. Never shying away from a challenge...
But the young Southern boys aren't scared of taking on a challenge either...
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I have lived in the northeast, the midwest, the south and the southwest. From this, I have come to a few conclusions:
1. Talent is not dictated by geography. The best players usually are the best players anywhere.
2. The difference is not the talent level at the top, but at the middle. There are more better athletes playing baseball in the south and southwest (far west) than are playing elsewhere and the depth of talent is remarkable. For instance, in the northeast, many of the very best athletes play hockey and not baseball. In Chicago, many play basketball but not baseball. Here in AZ, most of the best athletes (not all) play baseball first and other stuff after that. Not sure about CA, but there are so many athletes in CA, I'm not sure it matters.
3. While a northern player might have more upside because of the limited opportunities, these same players also are often so far behind that they either lack the ability to catch up or the dedication to catch up. Overuse can be an issue, to be sure, but underuse can actually be a bigger issue.
4. To be the best, you have to play against the best -- under pressure -- and often.
5. If you simply love baseball and all that comes with playing, watching, interacting, etc.... few places are better than either Florida or AZ because of the presence of spring training and year-round opportunity at virtually every level of the game (for instance, the Arizona Fall League).
6. Because of geography (the proximity of everything) and weather (the lack of rain), Arizona is probably the most fantastic place on earth to simply take it all in as far as baseball is concerned.
7. No matter what the circumstances, baseball is baseball and nearly always fabulous. Especially if what I have said above is true, isn't it amazing that an organization like Perfect Game was created and has thrived in Iowa, one of the most unlikely places of all and the setting for perhaps the best baseball movie ever.
1. Talent is not dictated by geography. The best players usually are the best players anywhere.
2. The difference is not the talent level at the top, but at the middle. There are more better athletes playing baseball in the south and southwest (far west) than are playing elsewhere and the depth of talent is remarkable. For instance, in the northeast, many of the very best athletes play hockey and not baseball. In Chicago, many play basketball but not baseball. Here in AZ, most of the best athletes (not all) play baseball first and other stuff after that. Not sure about CA, but there are so many athletes in CA, I'm not sure it matters.
3. While a northern player might have more upside because of the limited opportunities, these same players also are often so far behind that they either lack the ability to catch up or the dedication to catch up. Overuse can be an issue, to be sure, but underuse can actually be a bigger issue.
4. To be the best, you have to play against the best -- under pressure -- and often.
5. If you simply love baseball and all that comes with playing, watching, interacting, etc.... few places are better than either Florida or AZ because of the presence of spring training and year-round opportunity at virtually every level of the game (for instance, the Arizona Fall League).
6. Because of geography (the proximity of everything) and weather (the lack of rain), Arizona is probably the most fantastic place on earth to simply take it all in as far as baseball is concerned.
7. No matter what the circumstances, baseball is baseball and nearly always fabulous. Especially if what I have said above is true, isn't it amazing that an organization like Perfect Game was created and has thrived in Iowa, one of the most unlikely places of all and the setting for perhaps the best baseball movie ever.
jemaz,
Nice post and I feel it just comes down to sheer numbers playing and playing often. There are great players everywhere in the US and ultimately the cream rises to the top. Many of Texas best athletes stick to football after a certain age.
Nice post and I feel it just comes down to sheer numbers playing and playing often. There are great players everywhere in the US and ultimately the cream rises to the top. Many of Texas best athletes stick to football after a certain age.
The blizzard has me thinking too. It's snowed at least a foot. It's still snowing hard. I think I have a lot of shoveling to do Monday when it finally stops. My son smiled at me, pointed to his sling and said, "Sorry dad. I can't help. I'll watch you work."
Massachusetts has a new law where if your sidewalks aren't shoveled within six hours of the end of the storm you can be fined. If someone falls and gets injured you can be sued even if the city plows push snow onto your sidewalk which technically isn't your property.
Massachusetts has a new law where if your sidewalks aren't shoveled within six hours of the end of the storm you can be fined. If someone falls and gets injured you can be sued even if the city plows push snow onto your sidewalk which technically isn't your property.
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Who determines the time at which the storm ends?
Who determines how well you have shoveled?
Who determines where you can take the new law and shove it?
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Who determines the time at which the storm ends?
Who determines how well you have shoveled?
Who determines where you can take the new law and shove it?
.
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Overheard one recent evening at some swank cocktail reception for some swinging charity or other at some unseasonably humid and undisclosed Florida location...
The two wend their way through the throng of sipping sophisticates to the edge of the glimmering pool outside...
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- "...isn't it amazing that an organization like Perfect Game was created and has thrived in Iowa, one of the most unlikely places of all and the setting for perhaps the best baseball movie ever."
Overheard one recent evening at some swank cocktail reception for some swinging charity or other at some unseasonably humid and undisclosed Florida location...
- Mr.PGStaff: "jemaz."
jemaz: "Excuse me. Mr.PGStaff?"
PGStaff: "jemaz."
jemaz: "Mr.PGStaff."
Mr.PGStaff: "Come with me for a minute. I want to talk with you."
The two wend their way through the throng of sipping sophisticates to the edge of the glimmering pool outside...
- Mr.PGStaff: "I want to say one word to you. Just one word."
jemaz: "Yes, sir."
Mr.PGStaff: "Are you listening?"
jemaz: "Yes, I am."
Mr.PGStaff: "Ethanol."
jemaz: "Exactly how do you mean?"
Mr.PGStaff: "There is a great future in ethanol. Think about it. Will you think about it?"
jemaz: "Yes sir, I will."
Mr.PGStaff: "Enough said...that's a deal."
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I grew up in Poughkeepsie, NY, before settling here in SC,and the city and Town also had an ordinance even back in the early 60's about sidewalks being kept cleared. The money I made as a kid shoveling out neighborhood homes kept me in dough all year long as a 12 year old!
Does anybody think the 'forced' shut down in winter for northern kids keeps their arms healthier longer?
Does anybody think the 'forced' shut down in winter for northern kids keeps their arms healthier longer?
quote:Does anybody think the 'forced' shut down in winter for northern kids keeps their arms healthier longer?
I'm inclined to argue just the opposite. But it could be my cognitive skills have been affected by the first Christmas snow fall in Metro-Atlanta since 1882!
Good comments; Jemaz. There is no geo-bounds to talent but long term success certainly can be affected the opportunity or the lack thereof..
Reply to RJm. yeah there's facilities,but at what expense? does baseball got the route of tennis and golf? where it is a country club sport? Remember just this past fall in jupiter talking with the retired LSU coach about this very thing and he spelled it out. I live in the inner city and Luckily i can afford for my son to use indoor facility during the winter. but I take three to four kids who can't every time. Trust me it becomes very expensive. All for the love of the game. And i didnt mean that northern kids work twice as hard I meant that they spend half the time outdoors and when they do get outside its hurry up and get ready
quote:Originally posted by jemaz:
Overuse can be an issue, to be sure, but underuse can actually be a bigger issue.
Never thought of it like that...have to ponder it awhile and try not to hurt myself doing it.
Snow ? What blizzard ? Shovel what ?
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...you get the picture.
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- Blizzard to the right of them,
Blizzard to the left of them,
Blizzard in front of them
Lightning'd and thunder'd;
Arm'd with only salt and shovel,
Boldly they plowed and chilled,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of Hell
Rode the frigid hundred.
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quote:Massachusetts has a new law where if your sidewalks aren't shoveled within six hours of the end of the storm you can be fined.
my wife has the same rule.14 hrs of plowing then.....sidewalks. time for lunch....a nice big bowl of milk.
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You look famished 20dad. Sit yourself down.
Have a nice bowl of warm milk.
What's that you ask? Next to the bowl?
Ah...it's nuthin' really. You'll like it.
Just sumthin' I scraped off the plow is all. Wrapped it in dough.
There's more on the range top. Eat up!
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You look famished 20dad. Sit yourself down.
Have a nice bowl of warm milk.
What's that you ask? Next to the bowl?
Ah...it's nuthin' really. You'll like it.
Just sumthin' I scraped off the plow is all. Wrapped it in dough.
There's more on the range top. Eat up!
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I live in downstate Illinois and getting ready for the season was often a challenge. I spent winters driving an hour and fifteen minutes north to the south suburbs to get access to good indoor facilities. My team used our basketball court for cold weather workouts and while it certainly is better than nothing, nothing can replace working outside, especially on defense. One thing that was particularly difficult was trying to convert infielders to outfielders in the preseason. Two of my four years in HS our first outdoor activity was our first game. Do you think an inexperienced outfielder (or infielder, really) can get adequate reps inside a gym to be ready to play defense? Pitchers can throw off wooden mounds if available, and many schools have batting cages. At least some progress can be made on these fronts, although there are certainly limitations with those things too. For pitchers, long tossing is an impossibility without some of the best indoor facilities.
Wouldn't want to short change the southern boys, though. Playing baseball outside sure isn't an easy thing, and I'd never assert that they have to work less hard when in fact they may be exerting more effort. The difference with us northerners is sometimes our best efforts can't be as productive in the winters.
I've got a mixed bag now. I play college ball in Memphis, and we'll be practicing outside in January (unthinkable where I'm from). However, I have a month at home for Christmas break immediately before our season. I'm a pitcher only now, so I'm not quite as affected by facility. I get a friend to catch bullpens occasionally and also throw with a pitching coach to get my pitching work in. When I can't get someone to throw in our local gym with me, I throw into a hitting net in my garage. There are certainly some negatives to that, but we have to do what we have to do to keep our arms in shape.
I'd imagine our northern position players feel a bit slighted in terms of their ability to practice their defense and there are probably some that don't have access to a batting cage. I would have to drive 45 minutes to an hour to access a batting cage if I still batted, as my high school team doesn't work out through Christmas break.
In the end, there are still going to be northern players ready and on the field when the season starts. Look at the college nearest me, Illinois Wesleyan. They came to Memphis last year for their first games in March. My school had played around 15 or so games by then and IWU still won. Later on, IWU won the National Championship! They're a school that recruits largely just on a local basis, meaning they are comprised almost completely of northern kids.
When it's all said and done, the winter weather is definitely an inconvenience and probably a disadvantage. Nonetheless, time in and time out it seems everyone deals with it just fine.
Wouldn't want to short change the southern boys, though. Playing baseball outside sure isn't an easy thing, and I'd never assert that they have to work less hard when in fact they may be exerting more effort. The difference with us northerners is sometimes our best efforts can't be as productive in the winters.
I've got a mixed bag now. I play college ball in Memphis, and we'll be practicing outside in January (unthinkable where I'm from). However, I have a month at home for Christmas break immediately before our season. I'm a pitcher only now, so I'm not quite as affected by facility. I get a friend to catch bullpens occasionally and also throw with a pitching coach to get my pitching work in. When I can't get someone to throw in our local gym with me, I throw into a hitting net in my garage. There are certainly some negatives to that, but we have to do what we have to do to keep our arms in shape.
I'd imagine our northern position players feel a bit slighted in terms of their ability to practice their defense and there are probably some that don't have access to a batting cage. I would have to drive 45 minutes to an hour to access a batting cage if I still batted, as my high school team doesn't work out through Christmas break.
In the end, there are still going to be northern players ready and on the field when the season starts. Look at the college nearest me, Illinois Wesleyan. They came to Memphis last year for their first games in March. My school had played around 15 or so games by then and IWU still won. Later on, IWU won the National Championship! They're a school that recruits largely just on a local basis, meaning they are comprised almost completely of northern kids.
When it's all said and done, the winter weather is definitely an inconvenience and probably a disadvantage. Nonetheless, time in and time out it seems everyone deals with it just fine.