Whitey Ford
Best Winning PerCentage (236 - 106) .690
Lifetime ERA 2.75
World Series Championships 6
Top Ten Pitchers...All Time
HoF Walter Johnson
Ret Roger Clemens
HoF Grover Cleveland Alexander
Act Randy Johnson
Act Greg Maddux
HoF Tom Seaver
HoF Warren Spahn
Act Pedro Martinez
HoF Christy Mathewson
HoF Steve Carlton
All shared being both dominant and durable during their careers.
HoF = Hall of Fame
Act = Active
Ret = Retired
HoF Walter Johnson
Ret Roger Clemens
HoF Grover Cleveland Alexander
Act Randy Johnson
Act Greg Maddux
HoF Tom Seaver
HoF Warren Spahn
Act Pedro Martinez
HoF Christy Mathewson
HoF Steve Carlton
All shared being both dominant and durable during their careers.
HoF = Hall of Fame
Act = Active
Ret = Retired
Bear
You do not include Gibson among the Top 10?
And why Seaver twice ?
You do not include Gibson among the Top 10?
And why Seaver twice ?
.
Why Seaver twice? Wasn't he a spokesman for this?
.
Why Seaver twice? Wasn't he a spokesman for this?
.
Gibson the greatest ever? No. In the top ten? Maybe.
Gibson is worthy of the HOF, but hardly the best ever. Without comparing Gibson to pitchers none of us have ever seen, he sure doesn't measure up to Maddux. Maddux had a better prime(equal to Koufax's), a more prolific body of work(especially when comparing his stats to league averages), fielded his position better than any pitcher who ever lived and was responsible for improving the craft of pitching itself. A true litmus test for greatness.
Gibson had the record setting year but his career falls well short of being the 'best ever'.
Gibson is worthy of the HOF, but hardly the best ever. Without comparing Gibson to pitchers none of us have ever seen, he sure doesn't measure up to Maddux. Maddux had a better prime(equal to Koufax's), a more prolific body of work(especially when comparing his stats to league averages), fielded his position better than any pitcher who ever lived and was responsible for improving the craft of pitching itself. A true litmus test for greatness.
Gibson had the record setting year but his career falls well short of being the 'best ever'.
.
Gotta love that!
.
- "...fielded his position better than any pitcher who ever lived..."
Gotta love that!
.
Bear,
Gibson not in the top ten...you must have been driving around with Lincecum recently
Gibson not in the top ten...you must have been driving around with Lincecum recently
.
That may be true, but Bear had enough sense to roll the window down.
.
That may be true, but Bear had enough sense to roll the window down.
.
While this won't settle anything, it's an interesting read:
http://baseball.suite101.com/a...gue_pitching_records
http://baseball.suite101.com/a...gue_pitching_records
I suppose no one will vote for Aloysius Travers because of that one game where he threw a 26 hitter and gave up 24 runs.
I was gonna vote for Andy Hawkins who pitched a no-hitter but lost 4 - 0.
PGSTAFF, Aloysius Travers at least got to live a dream we probably all have of literally being picked up off the street to face the World champions for one game. In 1912 Cobb was suspended and in a rare show of support the Tigers walked out for one game. The Tigers facing possible loss of the franchise signed up players off the street including Travers who later in life became a Catholic priest. Bet he was doing some praying that day as the A's slaughtered the Tigers 24-2.
Quite truthfully, to me in the late sixties, following baseball as a teenager, there was never really the sense of Gibson necessarily being even the best pitcher of his own time. There were numerous ERA's in the one's and very low two's. Active pitchers of that era included Marichal, Kofax-middle 60's, McClain, McNally, Cuellar, McDowell, Chance, Lonborg, Tiant, Seaver, Palmer, both Perry's and other all time greats. Every one of those guys had season's that we would look at in awe nowadays.
quote:Originally posted by Three Bagger:
Quite truthfully, to me in the late sixties, following baseball as a teenager, there was never really the sense of Gibson necessarily being even the best pitcher of his own time. There were numerous ERA's in the one's and very low two's. Active pitchers of that era included Marichal, Kofax-middle 60's, McClain, McNally, Cuellar, McDowell, Chance, Lonborg, Tiant, Seaver, Palmer, both Perry's and other all time greats. Every one of those guys had season's that we would look at in awe nowadays.
I'll go with Gibson as "the most feared pitcher", and leave the best ever open for discussion!
From the same era, but rarely mentioned as one of the best ever,this HOF pitcher had 7 20-win seasons, including 6 in a row and 3000 career strikeouts.
First Canadian in the Baseball HOF!
You're right, we forgot Fergie Jenkins!
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
Bear
Inadvertant E-6 and 'fixed'
A with arguable one of three top all time LHP. (Lefty Grove, and a Maryland phenom, missed making the list.)
Gibson's 1968 season was indeed phenomenal. (And I am a huge St. Louis fan). One way to compare a pitcher's greatness is against his contemporaries. Gibson's minuscule 1968 1.12 ERA was the lowest in history among pitchers with at least 150 innings in a season. But 1968 was a pitcher's year--the NL average ERA of 2.83 stands as the lowest since 1919.
Yet there is one guy who played on another level in 2000. Pedro Martinez put together a 2000 season with a 1.74 ERA during the hitter-friendly 4.75 AL average.
With much respect for Rizzi, I will politely let go the other cheap bs.
Yet please stay around, contribute something baseball related, and you may pick something up.
Bear
I have always learned from you
You are my HERO
I have always learned from you
You are my HERO
A couple of pretty dominant Pitchers in their day who I bet any Manager would want on his World Series roster today:
Denton True Young -- his teammtes called him "Cy"
George Herman Ruth -- a pretty good hitting Pitcher
Denton True Young -- his teammtes called him "Cy"
George Herman Ruth -- a pretty good hitting Pitcher
"The rest of the story"
During my early days in the South Dakota Basin League, I had the opportunity to hit off of Bob Gibson. The ball looked like an aspirin tablet.
Fortunately, I swing the bat out and the ball hit the bat and went over the fence [opposite field].Several years later, I visited the Cardinal bullpen to meet Bob Gibson. He looked at me like I was a wall, there was no expression.
Later, I asked Ron Perranoski Dodgers pitching and my teammate in South Dakota about Gibson. Ron said "he doesn't talk to me either".
Sandy Koufax when he pitched against the Giants, the Giants he tipped his pitches and the Giants still could not hit him.
These are two great pitchers.
Bob Williams
During my early days in the South Dakota Basin League, I had the opportunity to hit off of Bob Gibson. The ball looked like an aspirin tablet.
Fortunately, I swing the bat out and the ball hit the bat and went over the fence [opposite field].Several years later, I visited the Cardinal bullpen to meet Bob Gibson. He looked at me like I was a wall, there was no expression.
Later, I asked Ron Perranoski Dodgers pitching and my teammate in South Dakota about Gibson. Ron said "he doesn't talk to me either".
Sandy Koufax when he pitched against the Giants, the Giants he tipped his pitches and the Giants still could not hit him.
These are two great pitchers.
Bob Williams
Yet when talk is of po-dunk league, somewhere, South Dakota, Class D ball, comes to mind!
I shall not travel down that memory lane and bore these bloggers.
Yet it appears the criteria each of a few naysayers are trying to define just may be the following:
....7th game of a World Series, who do you put on the mound?
Yep, Gibson is there, so is Koufax, WJ too, yes Whitey, and Cy, & Christy. Let coming in with that list of ten be an opportunity and a challege for you.
I still remember the look on Dick Bosman's face, (and when he just got his ML pitching coaches position) when I gave him Tom Seaver's hard back book on Pitching. Gotta christmas card that year.
I shall not travel down that memory lane and bore these bloggers.
Yet it appears the criteria each of a few naysayers are trying to define just may be the following:
....7th game of a World Series, who do you put on the mound?
Yep, Gibson is there, so is Koufax, WJ too, yes Whitey, and Cy, & Christy. Let coming in with that list of ten be an opportunity and a challege for you.
I still remember the look on Dick Bosman's face, (and when he just got his ML pitching coaches position) when I gave him Tom Seaver's hard back book on Pitching. Gotta christmas card that year.