For position players, are there specific attributes that make a player's body more projectable?
Is it all about what height and weight they look like they'll end up? Or, is there more to it than that? Is there a body type or certain proportions that they like? Anything specific other than height and weight and, if so, what?
I've looked and can't find much info on this. Just curious about how it all works.
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Saw this on Fangraphs recently (https://www.fangraphs.com/blog...cdaniel-chat-9-5-18/) from a chat with prospect writer Kiley McDaniel (former crosschecker for Braves, among other things):
: Kiley, how do you project size? Is there more to it than looking at a guy and thinking “Is he gunna grow more?” |
: Scouts typically look at…umm…well they’ll call it trunk in polite company, but it’s the butt. Typically, players grow to fill our proportionally to match the size of their butt. Calves and shoulders, too. Kinda like a puppy with their paws. Short of drastic weight loss (butt gets smaller), this is pretty accurate for non athletes, too. |
Btw pro scouting is different than 15u scouting. Pro scouts won't project height growth because the guys are 18 at draft, but more if the guy can add muscle mass without getting too stocky and losing mobility.
How often do that take into account what the kid's dad or mom is built like?
$tinky posted:How often do that take into account what the kid's dad or mom is built like?
They do. If you see a 5’10” 16yo with a five o’clock shadow standing next to a 5’9” dad how much growth do you think is left in the kid? What if the mother is 5’2”? It’s not set in stone the kid is done growing. But it’s likely.
A friend was a 6’7” NBA player. He married a short woman who was a college swimmer. His kids grew to 6’1”. Neither were college basketball prospects. One became a star mid major D1 athlete in another sport.
With so many reclassing, shouldn't they take age into it as well? It's one thing to be a 6-1 freshmen. It's another thing when you're a 6-1 freshmen who is 16 years old because you were held back in kindergarten and then reclassed when you were in the 8th grade.
The amount of kids reclassifying is ridiculous.
Francis7 posted:With so many reclassing, shouldn't they take age into it as well? It's one thing to be a 6-1 freshmen. It's another thing when you're a 6-1 freshmen who is 16 years old because you were held back in kindergarten and then reclassed when you were in the 8th grade.
Typically a freshman turns fifteen at some point freshman year or soon after. If a kid starts late or reclassifies once he would be sixteen.
If a kid did as you suggest he would be seventeen at some point freshman year. In most states he would be ineligible senior year in public schools for turning twenty during the academic year.
RJM posted:Francis7 posted:With so many reclassing, shouldn't they take age into it as well? It's one thing to be a 6-1 freshmen. It's another thing when you're a 6-1 freshmen who is 16 years old because you were held back in kindergarten and then reclassed when you were in the 8th grade.
Typically a freshman turns fifteen at some point freshman year or soon after. If a kid starts late or reclassifies once he would be sixteen.
If a kid did as you suggest he would be seventeen at some point freshman year. In most states he would be ineligible senior year in public schools for turning twenty during the academic year.
Nope. He's right. Every summer birthday (i.e., normally would graduate high school at 17) who is a "double-holdback" -- held back two years, is 16 when freshman year starts, and 19 when senior year starts. Graduates at 19 and turns 20 a few months later. Happens quite a bit in basketball (I can think of two prominent players here in SoCal just off the top of my head) and is starting to happen in baseball.
2019Dad posted:RJM posted:Francis7 posted:With so many reclassing, shouldn't they take age into it as well? It's one thing to be a 6-1 freshmen. It's another thing when you're a 6-1 freshmen who is 16 years old because you were held back in kindergarten and then reclassed when you were in the 8th grade.
Typically a freshman turns fifteen at some point freshman year or soon after. If a kid starts late or reclassifies once he would be sixteen.
If a kid did as you suggest he would be seventeen at some point freshman year. In most states he would be ineligible senior year in public schools for turning twenty during the academic year.
Nope. He's right. Every summer birthday (i.e., normally would graduate high school at 17) who is a "double-holdback" -- held back two years, is 16 when freshman year starts, and 19 when senior year starts. Graduates at 19 and turns 20 a few months later. Happens quite a bit in basketball (I can think of two prominent players here in SoCal just off the top of my head) and is starting to happen in baseball.
No! Most kids turn eighteen during the school year when they’re seniors, seventeen when they’re juniors, sixteen when they’re sophs and fifteen when they’re freshmen. A few kids with summer birthdays (mine both had summer birthdays) are about to turn these ages when the school year ends.
Students who start a year late AND later reclassify another year would turn twenty during their senior year. Turning twenty makes them ineligible in most, if not all states.
I believe a kid is eligible if he turns twenty after June 30th (end of school fiscal year).
RJM posted:Typically a freshman turns fifteen at some point freshman year or soon after. If a kid starts late or reclassifies once he would be sixteen.
If a kid did as you suggest he would be seventeen at some point freshman year. In most states he would be ineligible senior year in public schools for turning twenty during the academic year.
Our schools use 10/1 as the cutoff. My kid was born April 2004. He's a freshman now. He's 14. He will be 15 at the start of the season this year. But, he won't be 16 until sophomore year.
He has a classmate who was born 9/2004. He just turned 14 at the start of the school year. He won't be 15 until the start of his sophomore year. He won't be 16 until the start of his junior year.
He has another classmate who was born in July of 2003. He repeated kindergarten. He's now 15 as a freshmen. He will turn 16 just at the end of this season.
We know another kid who is a freshman. He was held back in elementary school. Then he reclassified and repealed the 8th grade. At this moment, he is 16 years and 2 months old. He also just committed to college.
We know another kid who just reclassified. He's repeating the 8th grade. He turns 15 next month. So, he will be 16 before he starts his freshman season.
In NJ, with the 10/1 cutoff, the only kids who will be playing at 16 as a freshmen are the kids who reclassified or repeated a grade.
I'm pretty sure once you turn 19 in NJ and PA you are no longer eligible. Obviously different for the preps/boarding schools with PG years, but regular high school sports cut off on the 19th birthday.
Being 19/20 in HS is weird. Post Grad, hold back, grey shirt, doesn't matter. There are 14 year olds going to school there.
PABaseball posted:I'm pretty sure once you turn 19 in NJ and PA you are no longer eligible. Obviously different for the preps/boarding schools with PG years, but regular high school sports cut off on the 19th birthday.
Being 19/20 in HS is weird. Post Grad, hold back, grey shirt, doesn't matter. There are 14 year olds going to school there.
To be eligible to participate in grades 10 through 12, you must not have reached your 19th birthday by June 30 immediately preceding the school year. Where you will participate only in grades 7 and 8, you may not have reached your 15th birthday by June 30 immediately preceding the school year; where you will participate only in grades 7 through 9, you may not have reached your 16th birthday by June 30 immediately preceding the school year.
In other words you can’t turn 20 by June 30th after senior year to be eligible senior year. I know of a kid who fit the scenario Francis described. He started school late. He reclassified entering an Inter-Ac. The Inter-Ac isn’t a PIAA member. He turned 20 in the fall of his senior year. He was a catcher and a football player. Imagine a typical, 15yo sophomore, non college prospect football player lining up against a kid about to turn 20.
Our schools use 10/1 as the cutoff. My kid was born April 2004. He's a freshman now. He's 14. He will be 15 at the start of the season this year. But, he won't be 16 until sophomore year.
He has a classmate who was born 9/2004. He just turned 14 at the start of the school year. He won't be 15 until the start of his sophomore year. He won't be 16 until the start of his junior year.
He has another classmate who was born in July of 2003. He repeated kindergarten. He's now 15 as a freshmen. He will turn 16 just at the end of this season.
We know another kid who is a freshman. He was held back in elementary school. Then he reclassified and repealed the 8th grade. At this moment, he is 16 years and 2 months old. He also just committed to college.
We know another kid who just reclassified. He's repeating the 8th grade. He turns 15 next month. So, he will be 16 before he starts his freshman season.
In NJ, with the 10/1 cutoff, the only kids who will be playing at 16 as a freshmen are the kids who reclassified or repeated a grade.
Same as my son, an April birthday. Will be 14 as a Fresh, mid way through the HS season he will be 15. I have to crack up at the parents who hold their kid back for sports. I am sorry, but I would rather my kid play up then down. And if he can't compete, then just maybe he isn't quite good enough yet..... It happens quite a bit where I live.
Dadof3 posted:Our schools use 10/1 as the cutoff. My kid was born April 2004. He's a freshman now. He's 14. He will be 15 at the start of the season this year. But, he won't be 16 until sophomore year.
He has a classmate who was born 9/2004. He just turned 14 at the start of the school year. He won't be 15 until the start of his sophomore year. He won't be 16 until the start of his junior year.
He has another classmate who was born in July of 2003. He repeated kindergarten. He's now 15 as a freshmen. He will turn 16 just at the end of this season.
We know another kid who is a freshman. He was held back in elementary school. Then he reclassified and repealed the 8th grade. At this moment, he is 16 years and 2 months old. He also just committed to college.
We know another kid who just reclassified. He's repeating the 8th grade. He turns 15 next month. So, he will be 16 before he starts his freshman season.
In NJ, with the 10/1 cutoff, the only kids who will be playing at 16 as a freshmen are the kids who reclassified or repeated a grade.
Same as my son, an April birthday. Will be 14 as a Fresh, mid way through the HS season he will be 15. I have to crack up at the parents who hold their kid back for sports. I am sorry, but I would rather my kid play up then down. And if he can't compete, then just maybe he isn't quite good enough yet..... It happens quite a bit where I live.
My son has a spring birthday too and has always been the youngest kid on his team, often by six or seven months. I didn't worry about it. I'm sure it made him a better competitor.
He struggled a bit at 13 and 14 when he hadn't yet hit puberty. But, now, at 15, he's catching up and passing by other kids who have looked like grown men for a couple of years. His brother is 6'3 and his dad is 6'4, so I'm sure it doesn't hurt when a coach sees one of them to know where my son is heading.
My son has SR pitcher on his who turns 19 on May 1 this coming spring. It is huge advantage for him, his college is extremely happy about it as well.
he is not a good student but is eligible so I guess we will see how it turns out.
Dadof3 posted:Our schools use 10/1 as the cutoff. My kid was born April 2004. He's a freshman now. He's 14. He will be 15 at the start of the season this year. But, he won't be 16 until sophomore year.
He has a classmate who was born 9/2004. He just turned 14 at the start of the school year. He won't be 15 until the start of his sophomore year. He won't be 16 until the start of his junior year.
He has another classmate who was born in July of 2003. He repeated kindergarten. He's now 15 as a freshmen. He will turn 16 just at the end of this season.
We know another kid who is a freshman. He was held back in elementary school. Then he reclassified and repealed the 8th grade. At this moment, he is 16 years and 2 months old. He also just committed to college.
We know another kid who just reclassified. He's repeating the 8th grade. He turns 15 next month. So, he will be 16 before he starts his freshman season.
In NJ, with the 10/1 cutoff, the only kids who will be playing at 16 as a freshmen are the kids who reclassified or repeated a grade.
Same as my son, an April birthday. Will be 14 as a Fresh, mid way through the HS season he will be 15. I have to crack up at the parents who hold their kid back for sports. I am sorry, but I would rather my kid play up then down. And if he can't compete, then just maybe he isn't quite good enough yet..... It happens quite a bit where I live.
Having kids start school late is more of a maturity issue than sports projection. In fact, our school district tests for school readiness.
I have a daughter with a July birthday. Girls physically mature early enough for reclassifying to matter. My son has a May birthday. I figured if he needed another year physically he could post grad on the back end. It wasn’t needed.
Each family’s situation is different. A situation may seem absurd to one person. But there may be reasons unknown to others why the decision was made. I figure as long as people aren’t breaking the law it’s not my business and any judgement I pass should be kept private or between close friends.
Its a scam petpetrated by wealthy parents who are afraid to have their boy compete against those on their proper level..they take their kid out of the public system after 8th grade and find a catholic school that will accept a year's tuition so they can repeat 8th grade..from there they go to private HS a year older than their classmates..it's been going here in NY/NJ for quite a while..should not be allowed in my opinion.
Just for s&g I checked out my kid's metrics against PG top 2023s...Many of the top 2023s are older than my kid, I get why some would reclass
2022NYC posted:Just for s&g I checked out my kid's metrics against PG top 2023s...Many of the top 2023s are older than my kid, I get why some would reclass
A lot is going to change with a group of fourteen year olds over the next four years. When my son was fourteen he was 5’4” 120. When he graduated he was 6’1” 175 and still growing.
I looked at what my kid could do as a pint size and knew he would pass a lot of other players over the next few years. I gave very little thought to him having a May birthday.
