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54 replies

"Borderline Pitches"

PF Pirate Fan100+ posts
I pulled this from another thread.
Just want some umpires to chim it on this one.

As an ump my goal to to enter the field and leave the field and hope nobody knows I was there. That doesn't mean I get every call correct or I did't make a mistake. It means I was consistent and had good game management.

Now, let's talk about the borderline pitch. This pitch is the one that is established that day between the umpire; catcher, pitcher and batter. This is the pitch that has a tolerance of about an inch either way, the human factor. This is the same pitch that the spectator or coach will always moan about. Yet the only two people that have the best view is the ump and the catcher. Yet everyone else at the field can see the pitch better than me.

There are 3 situations that can happen.

1) The pitcher, the catcher and myself are all in a sync. The pitcher is hitting his spot and I'm calling strikes. Does a pitch that is a little further outside get called a strike, probably. I'm I changing the strike zone, no. The pitcher has consistently been throwing strikes in the same area all day, and yes, maybe I blew the call and gave him a strike. Usually the response from the offensive coach will be; "He's been calling it there all day, swing the bat".

2) The pitcher can't hit the broadside of the barn. The cather set's up ouside, he throws inside, the catcher, sets up inside he throws out side, etc. Then the catcher sets up outside and low and behold the pitcher hits his spot. The probablility in this situation is it's a ball. The pitcher has not earned the outside pitch. Am I changing the strike zone, no. The strike zone has not been established between the pitcher, catcher, batter and the ump. Therefore it's a ball. If the pitcher "flips out" then it will probablly still be a ball. Why? Because he has not earned the pitch.

3) Take situation 1, at the begining of a game. The pitcher is hitting that borderline area, and the ump is balling it. (Again, I'm refering to that 1 inch differece. Think about that for a minute. Look at ruler and compare a ball to 1 inch. BORDERLINE CALL.) I will gaureentee you that any umpire who is worth his weight will realize that the pitcher can hit his spot, and that borderline pitch can be called a strike. However, if the pitcher starts to "flip out" it will be a ball all day.
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P pilsner500+ posts
Pirate Fan,

My view of this situation is a bit different than yours.

If the pitcher wants strike calls he doesn't have to hit his spots, he has to hit mine.

As the umpire, I set the zone. I understand what you mean by the "borderline" pitch but I don't use it to reward the pitcher with good control. Nor do I use it to penalize the pitcher with poor control. If it's a strike for one, it's a strike for the other. It's just that the pitcher with good control will get the strike call more often because he'll throw it there more often.

I've stated before on this site that I tend to set my zone appropriate to the age group. 13 year olds aren't going to be held to the same zone as Varsity pitchers. I know that some umps don't agree with that philosophy but that's ok.
I can live with it.

As far as pitchers who "flip out"....that's another matter. I guess that could mean a number of things. If you mean he takes a couple of steps down from the mound with that nasty look on his face because he wanted the pitch that I just called a ball then I 'll talk to the catcher first. You know; turn my back to the pitcher, dust the plate and remind the catcher that it's his job to keep his pitcher up on the mound. Usually the catcher understands and goes to talk to his pitcher. If he doesn't, I may add that if his pitcher continues to act that way he probably won't be pitching much longer.
At that point the catcher definitely understands and goes to talk to the pitcher. This usually takes care of any "flipping out" before it happens. If the pitcher still doesn't get the message and comes down from the mound or acts up again, then he can spend the rest of the game counting pitches for his reliever.
denisr400denisr400500+ posts
Piratefan, I give up trying to understand your reasoning as there are many contradictions to what you say.
You said umps like to call strikes and move game along, fine, but then you say you won't give a legion or hs pitcher a strike on the outside corner if the catcher set up inside.
Further, you don't want to have to hear from anyone in the dugout or stands question that call when the catcher reached across his body - even though it's a strike it's a ball?
You said you had thick skin & no "rabbit ears"
yet you readily admit your calls are influenced by players, coaches, and fans possible reactions.
Watch a mlb game, pitchers miss catchers glove or his setup position frequently and still get the call if it's a strike. They also get the call regardless of whether the pitcher, coaches, or fans are on them as they always are. Those umps are at the upper levels not just because of good judgement on calls but they also have the stones & temperament to call the game as it should be.
What your doing makes it very difficult on pitchers & hitters, your zone is not consistent at all as you readily admit.
Pilsner has it right.
denisr400denisr400500+ posts
Smokey - agree with what you say regarding how pitchers should handle themselves in other thread.
That said, I'd love to be sitting by you and soxnole at a game PF is umping and he won't call a corner strike all day because the catcher set up on inside corner or pitcher glared in a few times or showed some displeasure at his obviously moving strike zone. LOL
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
Its that is the whole point.
Negative waste of time which will put many UMPS in a rare mood.
The rules are NO ARGUING ABOUT STRIKES AND BALLS. A little interaction with the UMP can be fun but don't turn him against the pithcher.
As a pitcher you will get lots of calls you don't like and to tee off every time would result in a pitcher out of control and a big loser.
UMPs love to do a game with a pitcher they get respect from. I remember my son pitching a game which was part of the selection process for the Ontario Youth Team. He was totally in control and they subed in a new 3rd baseman who made 7 errors in a row on routine grounders. His errors resulted in our losing the game. My son was composed and he never got upset nor show any signs of blaming the player. While I was walking off the field the 3 UMPs met up in front of me and praised him amoung themselves for his composure after pitching a dominant game and losing. I talked to my son and I said if he didn't get picked I would be in shock. He said no way I lost and then I told him what the UMPS had said. He was one of 32 kids picked for the tryout from all the players in Ontario. I don't know if the UMPS had anything to do with it but I am sure they said something. The selection was done by MLB scouts from the 4 day tournament. He was also a year under age (16).
The UMPs zone, the crowd and all the negatives should be shut out. Act like you are winning the game.
I definitly prefer pilsner's stike Zone but you have to figure out early what the UMP wants and you give it to them.
itsinthegameitsinthegame5,000+ posts
Bobblehead,

It is interesting how different people view umpires.

I never liked speaking to umpires during the game. They are paid to do a job - and they should just do it.

They arent paid to give me compliments (or insults) on the field - and I always felt that could be a distraction during a game.

I always preferred to talk to no one other than my teammates and coaches during football and baseball games.

I never went up to an umpire after a play and said "good call" or "bad call" and I think they should do likewise - leave the players alone, call the game and get their check.

If they want to chit chat - do it after the game.
IMO.
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
Yes I agree. They were not talking to me. They didn't know who I was. I just happen to be behind them when they met up to walk to the parking lot.
When I go to a game I socialize withteam parents befor the game and when not videoing I sit with the opposition parents. We get teams from all over the US and Canada to our tournaments. I find that interesting. I usually don't tell them if my son is pitching. I just talk baseball. I don't react to my son's games anymore. I can't even sit with my wife. She gets too excited.
I also sit with UMPs a lot who I have known for years and Like most of them a lot. We discuss strike zones and all the issues with umpiring and have no problem with them. Some are fantastic with kids and feel they have a role in their development. I give them a lot of respect and my son does the same.
piaa_umppiaa_ump5,000+ posts
Actually pirate fan, I understand what your saying. However for me, I was never comfortable with having different zones for different levels.

The best advice I ever got was to try and establish one zone. One good consistent zone and I do my best to call it no matter what level I do. Now I dont do much youth ball so I dont see the wild fluctuation in pitching ablities....

I even resist changing my zone in blowouts...I only end up hurting my zone.......One zone, all the time has made me more consistent.

At the levels I call there is not a lot of fraternization between us and coaches and players....we umpire, they coach, they play..at the end of the game, its game balls to the head coach and Im off to the dressing room (most times the parking lot).......

I am approachable, and conversational, but away from the field. i do not want any team to think I favor one team or another...
Last edited by piaa_ump
H hsballcoach100+ posts
PF,
I do understand what you are saying to some extent. Just please be confident in "your zone" (since we all know the book zone does not exist) and be consistent with it. NEVER change what you would call because of a pitchers reaction on the mound. As a coach I will let into my pitcher if I see him react on the mound, that is my job. If I do not do my job and he continues to react, let the catcher know, or go talk to him, or send him to the bench if need be. But, do not change the zone, that is unprofessional and I would talk to you about it between innings. Always remember this, it is innappropriate for the pitcher to publicly act disgusted with a mistake call, but, you have to remember that you publically reacted by making that mistake call that may affect his game. Stay consistent and let the coaches do their job of handling the pitchers. Like I said before, if they don't, then say something to the coach.
piaa_umppiaa_ump5,000+ posts
4yr,

It is decent of you to be pleasant. It should not help nor hurt if you dont.

I am there to do a job. At higher levels there is some interaction with the catchers, but behind the plate, I rarely interact with Pitchers. Interaction during the game is best left to the catcher and Head Coach. Bench Players, assistant coaches and players in the field should not be involved in discussions with with the UIC.

I try to remain approachable, so you should not feel uncomfortable asking me anything if need be. But I am responsible to be an unbiased arbiter of the game, so dont mistake my non communication for anything but maintaining that professional separation.

best of luck this season...
H HaverDad500+ posts
My single umpire complaint has always been the arrogant notion of personal strikes zones... i.e. "my zone", as if the rules allow umpires to personalize the strike zone according to individual taste. While this obviously happens all the time, it is also a disservice (to both teams) when pitchers or hitters receive a strike zone advantage.
I have no beef with the fact that 15% of ball/strike calls can go either way but, for example, when an ump clearly rewards a "command" pitcher who can consistently hit a spot thats a full fist off the plate..... he gives an advantage to one team and eliminates any possibility of fair play.
Last edited by HaverDad
piaa_umppiaa_ump5,000+ posts
Haverdad,
My zone is not an arrogant notion. It is just what happens when I am behind the plate attempting to judge a 3 dimensional strike zone that changes based on the batters height.

If you can imagine an invisible floating column, 17 and a half inches wide that extends from a horizontal line at the midpoint between the top of the shoulders and at the lower level is the hollow beneath the knee cap. The zone is determined by from each batters stance as the batter is prepared to swing at a pitched ball....the strike zone changes for a 5'6" batter to a 6' batter......

All of this adds to each umpire having their own zone....even as we all try to adhere to the rule book definition.

It is just the reality of doing the job. I am known as an inside and low ball umpire. I know this from video tape of my cage work at umpire clinics. I am more apt to call a ball a strike inside and low than I am at the outside and high side of the zone. Its just my reality...maybe its because I am short that I see that lower ball as a strike. Dont know, not sure what I can do as a human to improve on that.

I try and keep as consistent a zone as possible to avoid problems, but it is what it is.

I hope your not encountering the "Eric Gregg" zone..., a fist off the plate is not what I would constitute as a gross miss......But if a command pitcher has hit the zone all day, do they get that strike?.......probably.....but not as arrogantly intentional as you might think...a good pitcher/catcher widens the zone with good mechanics......

I do my best to contain my zone inside/outside....but a baseball is some 3 inches wide......if you give the black as a strike, the ball could be almost off the plate and still called a strike.....

Hope this helps you see my view....Calling a good strike zone is where an umpire makes his reputation and it is something I work hard on.........
Last edited by piaa_ump
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