My son's team has one guy throwing 91-92. Son was at that, but hasn't thrown this year due to an arm issue. The other guys are 85-86...topping out at 88. Our most effective lefty is 77-78 with a curve ball that is in the low-mid 60's. We played a team a couple weeks ago....albeit on a weekday. 5 pitchers. Highest topped out at 84. I'm willing to be we haven't seen more than 3 or 4 guys at 90 in 19 games. We aren't playing the Top 25 type teams, but most guys have been 86-88.
The Big West usually has some very strong teams, but it also has one team that I believe would have difficulty winning a series against some members of the nearby SCIAC conference.
Not that they are a "Bottom Feeder", in fact they are really good, but Indiana State just beat #25 Illinois tonight to improve to 20-2 on the season. I guess I love it when a Mid Major beats a Power Five school. I'm going to guess that not all of the Indiana State roster was as highly recruited as the Illinois players.
I'll be fascinated to watch next month when Indiana State travels to Vanderbilt for a mid week game.
Not really related to the original topic in this thread, but something I felt like commenting on that maybe didn't need it's own thread.... (!)
Indiana State is very far from a bottom feeder. They beat P5’s almost every year. They’re playing .580 ball over the past five years. They’re currently #15 in RPI. If the season ended today they would be hosting a first round.
JCG posted:The Big West usually has some very strong teams, but it also has one team that I believe would have difficulty winning a series against some members of the nearby SCIAC conference.
I strongly disagree. I know there are a few schools in that conferences that aren't exactly powerhouses, but you put any of those teams in a weaker conference and they finish near the top or at least in the middle. I don't think a D3 could touch any of them, even with a stud pitcher.
3and2Fastball posted:Top D2's. No doubt.
Top JUCO's would also beat the worst D1 teams, too. San Jacinto, Iowa Western, John A Logan etc... Those types of JUCO's would beat up on a lot of D1's
Top jucos are a completely different animal. Many D1 types go there for all sorts of reasons including the draft. But like someone else said that's a short list of jucos. Most jucos would get absolutely smoked.
We are pretty much out of the baseball thing. Though he still plays football has taken front seat. So just to give you a perspective in that I can tell you the size of these kids is directly correlated to the level they play. He is not a Big Ten caliber so we have not seen that. But we have been on visits ranging from the MAC, Top level FCS, mid level FCS and D2. We have not been to a lower level FCS so I guess I can't speak for the true bottom level D1's. But looking at Linemen from the levels we have been at they are all around 300 lbs. just as the level gets lower the fat percentage goes up. The other thing is power five gets the 6'7" and 6'8" Linemen. Still I think bottom level D1 would smoke even the best D3's in football. Different game of course. And $ makes it different. We live in Wisconsin an hour away from whitewater one of the best D3's nationally. But if a bottom level D1 cam and told us his education would be 100% free... honestly I dont car how bad they are. We do not have the financial luxury to say no. And I think in football a lot of folks are like that. In baseball there are a lot more folks with money plus unfortunately there ain't a lot of scholarship money to be had anyway. I think this is why lower level baseball can sometimes attract better players where lower level football can not.
This may sound harsh, but in my first 9 D3 baseball games I'm seeing mediocre play with maybe two good position players on each team, and one solid P throwing above 85 every other team. The only good D3 catcher I've seen was from sons club team, otherwise lots of passed balls, hardly any catchers throwing guys out, lots of stolen bases, maybe two solid hitters per team. Sons club team as 17U's would kill these guys.
Gov posted:This may sound harsh, but in my first 9 D3 baseball games I'm seeing mediocre play with maybe two good position players on each team, and one solid P throwing above 85 every other team. The only good D3 catcher I've seen was from sons club team, otherwise lots of passed balls, hardly any catchers throwing guys out, lots of stolen bases, maybe two solid hitters per team. Sons club team as 17U's would kill these guys.
But are you seeing top ranked D3's playing their top guys, or middle to bottom of the pack D3's? There is a yawning gulf between, say, one of the WI D3's/ St. Thomas(MN) and Carleton. The latter is a great school, but our HS could probably beat them.
Just like there is a drastic difference between a top ranked D1 and a bottom 20 D1, there is the same difference between a top 10 D3 and a bottom 10.
57special posted:Gov posted:This may sound harsh, but in my first 9 D3 baseball games I'm seeing mediocre play with maybe two good position players on each team, and one solid P throwing above 85 every other team. The only good D3 catcher I've seen was from sons club team, otherwise lots of passed balls, hardly any catchers throwing guys out, lots of stolen bases, maybe two solid hitters per team. Sons club team as 17U's would kill these guys.
But are you seeing top ranked D3's playing their top guys, or middle to bottom of the pack D3's? There is a yawning gulf between, say, one of the WI D3's/ St. Thomas(MN) and Carleton. The latter is a great school, but our HS could probably beat them.
Just like there is a drastic difference between a top ranked D1 and a bottom 20 D1, there is the same difference between a top 10 D3 and a bottom 10.
Fair point... but did see and son played WI Whitewater the other day, lost on walkoff. But they don’t look anything like their rating from last year. Out of the 9, probably 3 were decent. They were playing their best position guys, maybe didn’t see “all” the teams top P’s.
Hammer823 posted:I think people overestimate the pitching velocity of D1 baseball. There are some mid-low level D1 schools close to me and they maybe have 1-2 pitchers touching 90. I'm friends with an AC at one, and he says the same about his team. Most of the staff is sitting in the mid eighties. Even watching the College World Series, there were many more pitchers that were mid to upper 80's than 90 plus. I also go to Cape League games each summer, sitting next to MLB scouts, and there are way more guys in the mid to upper 80's than in the 90's. The scouts have told me that a very large number of guys sitting 90 plus get drafted right out of high school, skipping college ball. They said that's even more true of 93 plus.
I just don't see that. Summer after sophomore year, almost every pitcher I saw commit was touching 90 or higher. I assume if they are throwing 90+ as sophomores they will be at least a mile or two higher by graduation. We have 3 on our hs team that throw between 90-94. We have lefties throwing 84-85 with no offers. I think in the last several years, there are just a larger number of kids throwing really hard.
baseballhs posted:Hammer823 posted:I think people overestimate the pitching velocity of D1 baseball. There are some mid-low level D1 schools close to me and they maybe have 1-2 pitchers touching 90. I'm friends with an AC at one, and he says the same about his team. Most of the staff is sitting in the mid eighties. Even watching the College World Series, there were many more pitchers that were mid to upper 80's than 90 plus. I also go to Cape League games each summer, sitting next to MLB scouts, and there are way more guys in the mid to upper 80's than in the 90's. The scouts have told me that a very large number of guys sitting 90 plus get drafted right out of high school, skipping college ball. They said that's even more true of 93 plus.
I just don't see that. Summer after sophomore year, almost every pitcher I saw commit was touching 90 or higher. I assume if they are throwing 90+ as sophomores they will be at least a mile or two higher by graduation. We have 3 on our hs team that throw between 90-94. We have lefties throwing 84-85 with no offers. I think in the last several years, there are just a larger number of kids throwing really hard.
I've lost count of the number of times I've watched a college game on tv/stream and compared the broadcast velo to the pitcher's PG profile, and found the pitcher's FB is sitting at or under his PG best. Sometimes 3-4 years later. It happened during the Alabama-Auburn game the other night. Different guns? Sitting vs max effort? No gains in college? I don't know, but I see it all the time.
baseballhs posted:Hammer823 posted:I think people overestimate the pitching velocity of D1 baseball. There are some mid-low level D1 schools close to me and they maybe have 1-2 pitchers touching 90. I'm friends with an AC at one, and he says the same about his team. Most of the staff is sitting in the mid eighties. Even watching the College World Series, there were many more pitchers that were mid to upper 80's than 90 plus. I also go to Cape League games each summer, sitting next to MLB scouts, and there are way more guys in the mid to upper 80's than in the 90's. The scouts have told me that a very large number of guys sitting 90 plus get drafted right out of high school, skipping college ball. They said that's even more true of 93 plus.
I just don't see that. Summer after sophomore year, almost every pitcher I saw commit was touching 90 or higher. I assume if they are throwing 90+ as sophomores they will be at least a mile or two higher by graduation. We have 3 on our hs team that throw between 90-94. We have lefties throwing 84-85 with no offers. I think in the last several years, there are just a larger number of kids throwing really hard.
I think the - you have to throw 90 - thing is a little blown out of the water, but I agree that all the kids committing now are throwing harder than they ever have. 6/7 years ago when the current college upperclassmen were committing, 90 was still somewhat of a big deal. 90 doesn't even get you draft consideration unless you have plus pitches to go with it.
I think the biggest difference in regards to velo at the college level is the ability to maintain it. Sometimes I see a P5 starter throwing 88 in the first, but he's still throwing 87 in the 6th and can pump 90 when they need to get outs. More stamina, still something left in the tank.
When I think of D1 rosters I think every guy is 86+ (usually the case). When I watch D3 games I think that they maybe have one or two guys over that barrier with more 80-82 guys than 85+ guys. Which is why it would take a stellar D3 team with plenty of live arms to take out even a weak D1.
Which is why it would take a stellar D3 team with plenty of live arms to take out even a weak D1.
This is where my thought process came from that started this thread. A friend’s son played for a D3 national champion. Three pitchers of varying classes threw 90 and were drafted. One made it to AAA. The catcher made it to AA. The first baseman was also drafted.
Then I see a kid I feel is no way a D1 prospect rostered on a bottom feeder conference D1. I’m not sure he’s good enough to start as a freshman at Southern Maine (a typically ranked D3). I looked at their schedule to discover everyone they beat was also 5-10 or worse. They were starting conference play. The entire conference was 5-10 or worse. His team is now 3-0 in conference play. I’d hate to see the worst team in the conference.
I typically only see Tufts or Southern Maine play D3 ball. I was wondering if that one national championship team was unique or are other top ranked D3’s good enough to compete (say 8-12) in a bottom feeder D1 conference.
In any one game anything can happen.
RJM posted:Which is why it would take a stellar D3 team with plenty of live arms to take out even a weak D1.
This is where my thought process came from that started this thread. A friend’s son played for a D3 national champion. Three pitchers of varying classes threw 90 and were drafted. One made it to AAA. The catcher made it to AA. The first baseman was also drafted.
Then I see a kid I feel is no way a D1 prospect rostered on a bottom feeder conference D1. I’m not sure he’s good enough to start as a freshman at Southern Maine (a typically ranked D3). I looked at their schedule to discover everyone they beat was also 5-10 or worse. They were starting conference play. The entire conference was 5-10 or worse. His team is now 3-0 in conference play. I’d hate to see the worst team in the conference.
I typically only see Tufts or Southern Maine play D3 ball. I was wondering if that one national championship team was unique or are other top ranked D3’s good enough to compete (say 8-12) in a bottom feeder D1 conference.
In any one game anything can happen.
RJ, I had no real clue until seeing these first games. Son played well today w a team W, playing Tufts in 2-3 weeks, maybe see you there...
baseballhs posted:Hammer823 posted:I think people overestimate the pitching velocity of D1 baseball. There are some mid-low level D1 schools close to me and they maybe have 1-2 pitchers touching 90. I'm friends with an AC at one, and he says the same about his team. Most of the staff is sitting in the mid eighties. Even watching the College World Series, there were many more pitchers that were mid to upper 80's than 90 plus. I also go to Cape League games each summer, sitting next to MLB scouts, and there are way more guys in the mid to upper 80's than in the 90's. The scouts have told me that a very large number of guys sitting 90 plus get drafted right out of high school, skipping college ball. They said that's even more true of 93 plus.
I just don't see that. Summer after sophomore year, almost every pitcher I saw commit was touching 90 or higher. I assume if they are throwing 90+ as sophomores they will be at least a mile or two higher by graduation. We have 3 on our hs team that throw between 90-94. We have lefties throwing 84-85 with no offers. I think in the last several years, there are just a larger number of kids throwing really hard.
Amen to that. Sons best friend topping 92. No offers. Some lookers. I am sure he will get a deal but just a few years back 92 would have been slam dunk SEC. So glad son got out of the arms race and focused on football. Still succeeds on the mound but could never have gotten velo required today. Would have been D3 for sure. In football he's got at least a 50/50 shot, being conservative, at D1 and if not there are D2's who will still make it free. Baseball would have been completely on our dime.
MidAtlanticDad posted:baseballhs posted:Hammer823 posted:I think people overestimate the pitching velocity of D1 baseball. There are some mid-low level D1 schools close to me and they maybe have 1-2 pitchers touching 90. I'm friends with an AC at one, and he says the same about his team. Most of the staff is sitting in the mid eighties. Even watching the College World Series, there were many more pitchers that were mid to upper 80's than 90 plus. I also go to Cape League games each summer, sitting next to MLB scouts, and there are way more guys in the mid to upper 80's than in the 90's. The scouts have told me that a very large number of guys sitting 90 plus get drafted right out of high school, skipping college ball. They said that's even more true of 93 plus.
I just don't see that. Summer after sophomore year, almost every pitcher I saw commit was touching 90 or higher. I assume if they are throwing 90+ as sophomores they will be at least a mile or two higher by graduation. We have 3 on our hs team that throw between 90-94. We have lefties throwing 84-85 with no offers. I think in the last several years, there are just a larger number of kids throwing really hard.
I've lost count of the number of times I've watched a college game on tv/stream and compared the broadcast velo to the pitcher's PG profile, and found the pitcher's FB is sitting at or under his PG best. Sometimes 3-4 years later. It happened during the Alabama-Auburn game the other night. Different guns? Sitting vs max effort? No gains in college? I don't know, but I see it all the time.
All it takes is one pitch at a particular number, and that goes up on the profile. Doesn't matter if it was 3 feet out of the strike zone. Pitching in games is different.
Gov posted:RJM posted:Which is why it would take a stellar D3 team with plenty of live arms to take out even a weak D1.
This is where my thought process came from that started this thread. A friend’s son played for a D3 national champion. Three pitchers of varying classes threw 90 and were drafted. One made it to AAA. The catcher made it to AA. The first baseman was also drafted.
Then I see a kid I feel is no way a D1 prospect rostered on a bottom feeder conference D1. I’m not sure he’s good enough to start as a freshman at Southern Maine (a typically ranked D3). I looked at their schedule to discover everyone they beat was also 5-10 or worse. They were starting conference play. The entire conference was 5-10 or worse. His team is now 3-0 in conference play. I’d hate to see the worst team in the conference.
I typically only see Tufts or Southern Maine play D3 ball. I was wondering if that one national championship team was unique or are other top ranked D3’s good enough to compete (say 8-12) in a bottom feeder D1 conference.
In any one game anything can happen.
RJ, I had no real clue until seeing these first games. Son played well today w a team W, playing Tufts in 2-3 weeks, maybe see you there...
My son, his friends and all of my riend’s son’s are in the real world now. I haven’t been to a Tufts game for a couple of years now. When I get to games it’s BC games in Boston and Southern Maine games when I’m in Maine. When I was full time in MA if I wasn’t traveling to see my son and BC was out of town I went to Tufts games. I knew a few player’s dads.
Speaking of the real world at Thanksgiving my son commented it used to be fun to be asked his teams in high school and college. He said now he’s as boring as the rest of us.
3and2Fastball posted:MidAtlanticDad posted:baseballhs posted:Hammer823 posted:I think people overestimate the pitching velocity of D1 baseball. There are some mid-low level D1 schools close to me and they maybe have 1-2 pitchers touching 90. I'm friends with an AC at one, and he says the same about his team. Most of the staff is sitting in the mid eighties. Even watching the College World Series, there were many more pitchers that were mid to upper 80's than 90 plus. I also go to Cape League games each summer, sitting next to MLB scouts, and there are way more guys in the mid to upper 80's than in the 90's. The scouts have told me that a very large number of guys sitting 90 plus get drafted right out of high school, skipping college ball. They said that's even more true of 93 plus.
I just don't see that. Summer after sophomore year, almost every pitcher I saw commit was touching 90 or higher. I assume if they are throwing 90+ as sophomores they will be at least a mile or two higher by graduation. We have 3 on our hs team that throw between 90-94. We have lefties throwing 84-85 with no offers. I think in the last several years, there are just a larger number of kids throwing really hard.
I've lost count of the number of times I've watched a college game on tv/stream and compared the broadcast velo to the pitcher's PG profile, and found the pitcher's FB is sitting at or under his PG best. Sometimes 3-4 years later. It happened during the Alabama-Auburn game the other night. Different guns? Sitting vs max effort? No gains in college? I don't know, but I see it all the time.
All it takes is one pitch at a particular number, and that goes up on the profile. Doesn't matter if it was 3 feet out of the strike zone. Pitching in games is different.
The other thing I see is the highly ranked guy at 15-17 who hits a high velo(which sits on his profile forever), but starts to lose velo, ending up as a Red shirt in college, or simply not having a D1 dance partner as a HS senior, after being a "big deal" as a underclassmen.
The opposite can be true in D3. The tall, dorky guy who arrives throwing 81mph, then is throwing 88-90 as a Junior or senior. Humans come in all shapes and sizes, and we all mature at different times. The 6'4" , 84 mph flamethrower who scared the crap out my kid as a 14yo is now a virtual nobody at 20yo, and throwing...84.
The scary thing about pitching and pitchers, is that they are often treated as disposable by colleges. That's why I insist that both my boys continue to play the field as long as possible, and that they KEEP UP WITH THE SCHOOLWORK!!!
2020dad posted:baseballhs posted:Hammer823 posted:I think people overestimate the pitching velocity of D1 baseball. There are some mid-low level D1 schools close to me and they maybe have 1-2 pitchers touching 90. I'm friends with an AC at one, and he says the same about his team. Most of the staff is sitting in the mid eighties. Even watching the College World Series, there were many more pitchers that were mid to upper 80's than 90 plus. I also go to Cape League games each summer, sitting next to MLB scouts, and there are way more guys in the mid to upper 80's than in the 90's. The scouts have told me that a very large number of guys sitting 90 plus get drafted right out of high school, skipping college ball. They said that's even more true of 93 plus.
I just don't see that. Summer after sophomore year, almost every pitcher I saw commit was touching 90 or higher. I assume if they are throwing 90+ as sophomores they will be at least a mile or two higher by graduation. We have 3 on our hs team that throw between 90-94. We have lefties throwing 84-85 with no offers. I think in the last several years, there are just a larger number of kids throwing really hard.
Amen to that. Sons best friend topping 92. No offers. Some lookers. I am sure he will get a deal but just a few years back 92 would have been slam dunk SEC. So glad son got out of the arms race and focused on football. Still succeeds on the mound but could never have gotten velo required today. Would have been D3 for sure. In football he's got at least a 50/50 shot, being conservative, at D1 and if not there are D2's who will still make it free. Baseball would have been completely on our dime.
Your sons friend at 92 is a junior? He will get a lot of attention this summer.
A current junior throwing 92 with no offers? Can at he at least throw it where the catcher can catch it 2 out of 5 times? 