@MTH posted:

What are the sources of the "revenues" listed?  Are they supposed to be ticket sales?  Concessions?  Booster club?  Student activity fees?  Would love to see a breakdown.

EADA does not provide that level of detail.

@MTH posted:

Interesting article in The State newspaper today regarding the Furman program.  According to the Athletic Director, Furman has been losing around $1,000,000 per year on it's baseball program.  Lacrosse was costing them $1,700,000.  Like many schools, their athletic program is funded primarily with student tuition.   In 2019 they only had $8000 in baseball ticket sales.  Sounds like change was already in the offing, but the program probably would have survived if not for Covid-19.

Some of the alumini have mounted an effort to try to save the program.  Based on the AD's comments, it seems unlikely that this will be successful because of the amount of money that would be necessary to create a foundation/fund to sustain the program. 

https://www.thestate.com/sport...link=hpdigest_sports

 

I find this incredibly hard to believe considering they hosted both South Carolina and Clemson last season.  Unless they got absolutely screwed on whatever deal they worked out to use the minor league stadium in Greenville for those games, they should have easily made that much  from one of those games alone.

It seems like Furman has been wanting to cut a sport for a while, they tried to cut their men's golf team a few years until some alumni stepped up and helped fund the program

Last edited by gamecock303

EADA does not provide that level of detail.

Of course it doesn't.  Which is why all of these numbers you keep posting are pretty much worthless.  They create the impression that programs like Furman are self supporting, which is nowhere close to true.  Don't get me wrong, it sucks that it's impossible to find accurate numbers on exactly how many programs make/lose money, and how many programs are "fully funded."  But, posting vague, incomplete data really does not help. 

@MTH posted:

Of course it doesn't.  Which is why all of these numbers you keep posting are pretty much worthless.  They create the impression that programs like Furman are self supporting, which is nowhere close to true.  Don't get me wrong, it sucks that it's impossible to find accurate numbers on exactly how many programs make/lose money, and how many programs are "fully funded."  But, posting vague, incomplete data really does not help. 

@MTH

As for being self supporting, most knowledgeable people know football and basketball are the revenue generating sports.  Expense by Sport.

 

As for vague, it depends on the user.

Based on feedback from many that visit college baseball insights, they are working purely in the dark with respects to the overall financial budget of any athletic department, thinking only about athletic scholarship $$$ for themselves vs how much $$$ is allocated toward training, salaries, etc. Having a top level number and shows the trajectory of a programs financial situation provide them context of a program.

To a average user, the families, they are probably have tunnel vision, and are only thinking about their own athletic scholarship $$$.

To Recruiting Services, they can quickly see the trajectory of the athletic department, subsequently they can do some additional research on the school. 

For example,  Winston Salem had a big decrease from 2017 - 2018.

What happen, Elizabeth City dropped its baseball program, thus dropping the conference below the necessary numbers of schools to get automatic bids.

The conference was provided a waiver for a couple of years.

Conference dropped baseball, thus all teams went independent for 2 years.

Some of the independent schools found other conferences.

Two schools eliminated baseball St. Augustine and Winston Salem.

 

image

 

To a college coach,  being able to see overall spend of other schools can give him some talking points to his athletic director.

So to response to your point it depends on your level of understanding what might go into the number?

Question, for you, does the information from Equity in Athletics Disclosure Act add some level of value that most might not know or understand?

https://www2.ed.gov/finaid/pro.../athletics/eada.html

 

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@MTH posted:

Of course it doesn't.  Which is why all of these numbers you keep posting are pretty much worthless.  They create the impression that programs like Furman are self supporting, which is nowhere close to true.  Don't get me wrong, it sucks that it's impossible to find accurate numbers on exactly how many programs make/lose money, and how many programs are "fully funded."  But, posting vague, incomplete data really does not help. 

Be reminded, most schools post their EADA Report on their athletic page for a reason.

 

Question, what is your take when you see this graph?

Roster Size Example

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@MTH posted:

Of course it doesn't.  Which is why all of these numbers you keep posting are pretty much worthless.  They create the impression that programs like Furman are self supporting, which is nowhere close to true.  Don't get me wrong, it sucks that it's impossible to find accurate numbers on exactly how many programs make/lose money, and how many programs are "fully funded."  But, posting vague, incomplete data really does not help. 

@mth

You might already know EADA is reported to the government at the end of the year.

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/t...668_147&rgn=div8

With respects to athletic scholarship and "full funded", in my humble opinion, that is the tip of the iceberg. .  My son, received very good money to attend a JUCO.  They $$$ seemed good, but the training and trainer sucked.  Note, this was in 2015. He and another player wound up with SLAP Tears, also because they considered it a catastrophic injury, the would only be liable to additional payments above 25k.

Note, although the financials at the 10k foot level. it can provide you a starting point as to how serious a school is about their program.

There is a group of Furman alumni hoping to save the baseball program.  According to a post that one of them made to Twitter, Furman has indicated to them that it would take $23,000,000 to resurrect the program.  He did not provide any details, but I am ASSUMING that this is the amount it would take to fund some sort of trust/foundation, with the baseball program to be funded, in full or in part, off of the yearly trust income.    

@LuckyCat posted:

Didn't see any mention of this elsewhere.  Brown has cut a number of sports, but fortunately baseball isn't one of them:

https://www.brown.edu/news/202...athletics-excellence

Did see that and they actually gave a legitimate reason. They had an absurd amount of sports, the second most in the country. The AD basically came out and said we have 36 sports and aren't competitive in most. Cut the sports and put money into others that have a chance. 

For those wondering why so many small schools who are terrible at sports continue to fund losing programs here is why. A large percentage of the student body is made up of athletes. Tuition money. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com...olleges/?arc404=true

Bowling Green did announce a reinstatement. Thought I heard this gave them a short-term runway of three years, by then hopefully figuring a long-term financial solution. 

https://twitter.com/JordanStra...987418431488/photo/1

They still have most of their roster in the portal, and a couple already committed elsewhere. Not sure what effect this will have short-term on their recruiting, but good news nonetheless!

Bowling Green is officially back...they've raised 1.5M from alumni and donors.  The day after one of their top pitchers Jay Ward found a new home at UT San Antonio...

@Gov posted:

Bowling Green is officially back...they've raised 1.5M from alumni and donors.  The day after one of their top pitchers Jay Ward found a new home at UT San Antonio...

Good for him. Better program, better conference.

JMO

@PABaseball posted:

 

For those wondering why so many small schools who are terrible at sports continue to fund losing programs here is why. A large percentage of the student body is made up of athletes. Tuition money. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com...olleges/?arc404=true

I think that what you are saying is probably true at some small schools, but not the ones on this list.  Take Williams for example: 15% acceptance rate and an endowment of $2.9B.  They don't need sports to attract students.  Tufts, Amherst, Bowdoin, same deal.

@K9 posted:

I think that what you are saying is probably true at some small schools, but not the ones on this list.  Take Williams for example: 15% acceptance rate and an endowment of $2.9B.  They don't need sports to attract students.  Tufts, Amherst, Bowdoin, same deal.

Kids don’t go to schools like that (or the Ivies) for their athletic programs. 

@TPM posted:

Good for him. Better program, better conference.

JMO

No doubt about that. UTSA flies under the radar but is a good school with a good baseball program in a good city. 

@K9 posted:

I think that what you are saying is probably true at some small schools, but not the ones on this list.  Take Williams for example: 15% acceptance rate and an endowment of $2.9B.  They don't need sports to attract students.  Tufts, Amherst, Bowdoin, same deal.

Yes, you are correct. Was trying to show the % of athletes compared to enrollment. 17 varsity sports and an enrollment of 2600 is going to be a very high percentage of athletes. 

The elite schools don't need sports to attract students, but they do need sports to attract top students who play sports away from other schools on the list. Williams will be a great school with or without sports, it's just necessary to sponsor sports in order to keep their athletes from going to Amherst and playing. 

@PABaseball posted:

Yes, you are correct. Was trying to show the % of athletes compared to enrollment. 17 varsity sports and an enrollment of 2600 is going to be a very high percentage of athletes. 

The elite schools don't need sports to attract students, but they do need sports to attract top students who play sports away from other schools on the list. Williams will be a great school with or without sports, it's just necessary to sponsor sports in order to keep their athletes from going to Amherst and playing. 

Agree with you there.  

@adbono posted:

No doubt about that. UTSA flies under the radar but is a good school with a good baseball program in a good city. 

Here are some visuals for UTSA

2020 Distribution by State

 

01-UT San Antonio 2020 Distribution By State

 

2020 Distribution By Position  - there are high number of upper class which normal mean a team get many players from JUCO

02-UT San Antonio 2020 Distribution By Position

 

2020 Team Roster Insights

03-UT San Antonio 2020 Team Roster Insights

5 year Winning %  is .485

 

04-UT San Antonio Performance History

2019 MLB Draft

05-UT San Antonio 2019 MLB Draft

 

2018 MLB Draft

06-UT San Antonio 2018 MLB Draft

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Last edited by CollegebaseballInsights
@Bball34 posted:

Sorry if I missed it. What sure are those graphs from?

thanks!

They are graphs collegebaseballinsights puts up anytime a school is mentioned, in this case UT San Antonio.

But  always hard to read.

However, you can take albono and my word for it, both familiar with CUSA.

@TPM posted:

They are graphs collegebaseballinsights puts up anytime a school is mentioned, in this case UT San Antonio.

But  always hard to read.

However, you can take albono and my word for it, both familiar with CUSA.

@TPM  Understood.  The don't render well, when embeded in the framework of this website.  Looks better on other plaforms, e.g instagram, twitter, facebook and linkedin.

See if you can download the images to your local drive and open the png.

You can click on the images to just look at the images as attachments.

 

Otherwise you can visit www.collegebaseballinsights.com

Last edited by CollegebaseballInsights

@TPM  Understood.  The don't render well, when embeded in the framework of this website.  Looks better on other plaforms, e.g instagram, twitter, facebook and linkedin.

See if you can download the images to your local drive and open the png.

You can click on the images to just look at the images as attachments.

 

Otherwise you can visit www.collegebaseballinsights.com

I have no reason to do that. It's just an observation. 

I wasn't the one who asked about the graphs.

 

Furman is officially done.  Alumni that have been working to raise money to continue the program have been told by the schools administration that they won't even be given the opportunity to do so.

This really stinks for Furman.  Glad to see some of the guys finding new homes.  Hope they all end up somewhere good.

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