I'm in no way going to deny that Vanderbilt and Louisville are two of the best teams in the country and I still expect both to make deep postseason runs. But both had losing records after the first weekend of the season and still maintained top 4 rankings.

Now I know it's early and the games early on don't mean as much now as they do down the stretch but cmon. Michigan takes out two top 10 teams in Vanderbilt and ASU (at ASU) and they're still ranked behind Vandy a team they beat on opening night (my best vs your best). They dropped one of four I get it, but one team came out 3-1, the other 1-2. 

I understand teams don't fall out of the rankings with two losses like they do in football, and I'm glad neither took cupcakes to open the season but they play the games for a reason. 

Last edited by PABaseball
Original Post

Way too early!  Anyone see what Leiter did for Vandy on Wednesday night?  UCONN and Michigan start a weekend series this afternoon so Michigan can get revenge for their only from loss this past weekend.

Last edited by Gunner Mack Jr.

PABaseball,

Yep, I 100% agree there is something wrong with college baseball rankings when baseball blue bloods lose and there is no change in the rankings.   I've seen this work the same way with a certain University in Charlottesville, VA that was founded by Thomas Jefferson....not mentioning names   For a handful of years they were one of the best teams in the country...always ranked top 10 and absolutely deserved it.   Then they hit the skids 2-3 years ago and the college baseball rankings still had them ranked in the top 25 which was utterly ridiculous.  Their program was a shadow of what they used to be, but the college baseball rankings folks just seemed to be living in the past with that national ranking.   This is just one example.  There are more.   

University of Texas is another example. Every year they have to play their way OUT of the rankings instead of having to play their way in. 

The rankings don't really mean much until the RPI is published.

There are a lot of really good D1 programs that don't ever get mentioned.  They work very hard at winning, so that they can win their conference championships,  get the trophy and a ring. Their goal is to get a bid to a regional.  

Unfortunately those teams don't sell online subscriptions.

JMO

It was more about the 2 teams in the top 5 with losing records against what would appear to be lesser opponents than the other teams in question deserving a higher rank. Michigan and Cal Ploy losing doesn't make their case any stronger

Rankings at this point are about the horses in the stable.  That doesn't change after one lap around the track.  The ranking right now are still about what the teams look like on paper.  There needs to be a lot more data points before they start getting shuffled around.  

22and25 posted:

Rankings at this point are about the horses in the stable.  That doesn't change after one lap around the track.  The ranking right now are still about what the teams look like on paper.  There needs to be a lot more data points before they start getting shuffled around.  

I agree 22and25 this is the way it is, and it is that way because that is the way it has always been.   But this is not the way it should be.  There is a lot I really love about college baseball but their ranking system is not among them.  Let's be real here.  Yes, it is a popularity contest most years and the baseball blue bloods are always at the top to start the season with pre-season rankings.  But when the season starts and they lose, they need to be moved down until they prove they deserve a top ranking.  Too often these schools get elevated to top based on their HC, last years performance, or their recruiting class that hasn't done jack squat on a college baseball field.   Frankly, this is utter bullsh*t in my opinion.   Prove to the college baseball world through performance on the field (not through media relations) that your team deserves a top ranking.  I don't care how a college baseball team looks on paper, I care about how they perform.  The ranking system needs to reflect performance once the first pitch is thrown and pre-season is over.

If the games at the beginning of the season don't matter then why are they being played?   

fenwaysouth posted:
22and25 posted:

Rankings at this point are about the horses in the stable.  That doesn't change after one lap around the track.  The ranking right now are still about what the teams look like on paper.  There needs to be a lot more data points before they start getting shuffled around.  

I agree 22and25 this is the way it is, and it is that way because that is the way it has always been.   But this is not the way it should be.  There is a lot I really love about college baseball but their ranking system is not among them.  Let's be real here.  Yes, it is a popularity contest most years and the baseball blue bloods are always at the top to start the season with pre-season rankings.  But when the season starts and they lose, they need to be moved down until they prove they deserve a top ranking.  Too often these schools get elevated to top based on their HC, last years performance, or their recruiting class that hasn't done jack squat on a college baseball field.   Frankly, this is utter bullsh*t in my opinion.   Prove to the college baseball world through performance on the field (not through media relations) that your team deserves a top ranking.  I don't care how a college baseball team looks on paper, I care about how they perform.  The ranking system needs to reflect performance once the first pitch is thrown and pre-season is over.

If the games at the beginning of the season don't matter then why are they being played?   

I agree the ranking are meaningless at the beginning of the season but how else are you going to rank them before they have played some games?  And once they start to play do you really want wild swings in the rankings based on 2 or 3 games?  Baseball is a game of averages, peaks and valleys all smoothed out over time.  ERA, Batting Averages, etc.... 

In a way a team's lineup for the 1st game is a poll.  They are placed in the lineup based on what the coach has seen and knows about their ability.  Does it makes sense for the coach to swap his 2 hole and his seven hole after the first 3 games of season?  Should he bench a talented pitcher based on his era after 2/3 of an inning?  

 

Are preseason polls dumb, sure.  Would having teams ping pong around the rankings from 2 to 19 to 7 to 23 in the first few weeks of the season really make it better?

fenwaysouth posted:
22and25 posted:

Rankings at this point are about the horses in the stable.  That doesn't change after one lap around the track.  The ranking right now are still about what the teams look like on paper.  There needs to be a lot more data points before they start getting shuffled around.  

I agree 22and25 this is the way it is, and it is that way because that is the way it has always been.   But this is not the way it should be.  There is a lot I really love about college baseball but their ranking system is not among them.  Let's be real here.  Yes, it is a popularity contest most years and the baseball blue bloods are always at the top to start the season with pre-season rankings.  But when the season starts and they lose, they need to be moved down until they prove they deserve a top ranking.  Too often these schools get elevated to top based on their HC, last years performance, or their recruiting class that hasn't done jack squat on a college baseball field.   Frankly, this is utter bullsh*t in my opinion.   Prove to the college baseball world through performance on the field (not through media relations) that your team deserves a top ranking.  I don't care how a college baseball team looks on paper, I care about how they perform.  The ranking system needs to reflect performance once the first pitch is thrown and pre-season is over.

If the games at the beginning of the season don't matter then why are they being played?   

Fenway, 

I have known you for a long time and I love that fire you got in your belly this morning! I agree with much of your post.

The roster on any team can change from week to week until the HC determines who shall play everyday and who should be a sub, who shall play another position,  who gets the start, who relieves, etc. So in a sense the beginning of the year games do have an importance! 

The best game yesterday IMO was Miami vs FL. #1 and #2  battling it out for 11 innings!

 

By the time the tournament comes around it’s all about RPI. A few weeks into the season the voter rankings are typically a reasonable accounting of where teams stand give or take five slots. The possible exception is an up and coming outlier.

It will be interesting to see what they do with Tennessee in the rankings this week.  Beat #1 Texas Tech and top 20 Stanford this weekend in Austin, TX.  Scored 74 runs in 7 games undefeated with 10 straight home games now. 

What is the purpose of value of the rankings?

Every website puts their own spin on it, D1, Baseaball USA, JohnnyBaseball.com

Does it spark rivalries? Motivate teams? Demotivate teams? (Do they care outside of recruiting?)

How did Boise State recruit kids when the program has been gone for 40 years? Some went last year just to practice....

  • Florida swept Miami. (Tough series for sure)
  • DBU took 2 and won series from UNC at UNC!
  • GT sweeps Ohio State (former Big10 Champs) at Home
  • Northwestern won series vs. SC at SC!
  • Oregon State won series vs. Hail State
  • Auburn gets swept at Home....
  • Longbeach won series vs Wake Forest.
  • Uconn won series vs Michigan

Let's see what if any adjustments there will be....I don't expect there will be much as you've said.

The blue bloods will recruit like they always have. Some will take LOADS of kids and be at the top of PG Class rankings, but if you look at Avg Rank of Player, those that take less and quality kids, rise in the rankings and have deep talent. 

How would you fix this? How would you rank? What would you consider and not? What weights would you give things? 

Truly interested in knowing. I think this stuff is interesting. 

Last edited by Eokerholm
PitchingFan posted:

It will be interesting to see what they do with Tennessee in the rankings this week.  Beat #1 Texas Tech and top 20 Stanford this weekend in Austin, TX.  Scored 74 runs in 7 games undefeated with 10 straight home games now. 

Well Baseball America came out and they didn't add them.   It will probably take a month or so to see any major movement.  

While we're on the topic of questionable rankings, I think pre-season all-conference and pre-season freshman all-american listings are as ridiculous as it gets.

baseballhs posted:
PitchingFan posted:

It will be interesting to see what they do with Tennessee in the rankings this week.  Beat #1 Texas Tech and top 20 Stanford this weekend in Austin, TX.  Scored 74 runs in 7 games undefeated with 10 straight home games now. 

Well Baseball America came out and they didn't add them.   It will probably take a month or so to see any major movement.  

But the team we beat Friday night moved up from #4 to #2.  That makes a lot of sense.  NOT

The baseball rankings are quite the joke.  They are essentially saying that their preseason rankings are not to be questioned and that on the field only matters if you are really bad.  Tennessee should have jumped into the top 10.  They are ranked #24 on D1 and unranked on BA.  LSU has a terrific resume right now with home weekend losses to EKU and IU and a midweek loss to Nichols.  Let's not move them.   Louisville back at #3 on D1 with a 4-3 record and a series loss to the 5th or 6th best team in the SEC West.  Stanford and Wake were both ranked last week after bad outings and quite honestly not passing the eye test.  Both were taken to the shed all weekend and are now out of the top 25.  Why were they there to begin with? 

Hey everyone, it's only the second week in the season. Again as mentioned, it's RPI that is important!  

And keep in mind that it's never really about how the season begins, but how it ends.

TPM posted:

Hey everyone, it's only the second week in the season. Again as mentioned, it's RPI that is important!  

And keep in mind that it's never really about how the season begins, but how it ends.

Amen! 

The end is all that matters. I agree the usual suspects are in the Top 10 and many successful programs are left out. Make the top 8. .. late, and you are in the driver's seat. 

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