Brown Baseball

My advice. Have your son contact them ASAP. Send metrics, video, and provide current GPA, test scores (if he has them), and let them know why he is interested in Brown. They didn't appear to have any 2020 commits (from what I could see) until this past summer. That doesn't mean they didn't have any--it just means they weren't posted on the usual sites (PG and PBR). And that also doesn't mean they weren't looking at recruits and didn't have their "list". Quite the opposite. I believe that could be said of all the Ivy's. They are certainly tracking 2021's and know who they want to go after. Some have plenty of 2021 commitments already. Now is the time to let them know you are very interested.

My son talked with the Brown HC at Showball (August date in Medford, NY). He had contacted them at the beginning of summer but at the time Brown was not his first choice. As his choices narrowed he began to give them more thought and spent time looking at the school and thinking about if it would be a fit academically. He decided it was. The Brown HC told him he liked him but they were looking at several others ahead of him at his position. Which said to me my son was a bit late to the party.

It also told me they are not a very good judge of talent!  ;-)

Keep in mind choosing Brown is about academics and not baseball. The team has been horrible for ten years. That they would keep the same coach for six years through this run of horrible baseball is a statement on how unimportant baseball is at Brown.

Here are some visuals:

2019 Player Distribution by State

2019 Player Distribution by Position

2019 Team Roster Insights

Team Performance 2015 - 2019

2018 Expense by Sport

Baseball Budget last 10 years

2019 Ivy League Conference Comparison

2018 Ivy League Conference Comparison

Anyone have any idea if there is coach support in admissions or do you have to get in first?  Always seems so risky. Many students have numbers in the range of their median scores/GPA that get denied...

There’s support. Others here know more but, basically, if they like you as a player and you hit their academic threshold, coaches work with admissions.

incredibly  hard to get in w/o support as you realize. 

search hsbbw for threads on ivy admissions and academic index. 

Wow, thanks for all the info. Son is 1350 SAT and 4.5 weighted with lots of APs. He probably is within lower part of index threshold. Right now he’s not going to be the stud pitcher recruit but maybe a solid get later in the recruiting game. 

ABSORBER posted:

My advice. Have your son contact them ASAP. Send metrics, video, and provide current GPA, test scores (if he has them), and let them know why he is interested in Brown. They didn't appear to have any 2020 commits (from what I could see) until this past summer. That doesn't mean they didn't have any--it just means they weren't posted on the usual sites (PG and PBR). And that also doesn't mean they weren't looking at recruits and didn't have their "list". Quite the opposite. I believe that could be said of all the Ivy's. They are certainly tracking 2021's and know who they want to go after. Some have plenty of 2021 commitments already. Now is the time to let them know you are very interested.

My son talked with the Brown HC at Showball (August date in Medford, NY). He had contacted them at the beginning of summer but at the time Brown was not his first choice. As his choices narrowed he began to give them more thought and spent time looking at the school and thinking about if it would be a fit academically. He decided it was. The Brown HC told him he liked him but they were looking at several others ahead of him at his position. Which said to me my son was a bit late to the party.

It also told me they are not a very good judge of talent!  ;-)

Absorber, I don't think your son was late to the party.  Your son is on their list, which is not fixed in stone.  Hopefully they will get more chances to see him play this summer and realize their mistake.  From what I'm seeing, most HA schools, including most of the Ivies, are just getting started with the 2021s.  

Good luck to him and to BaseballDad72's son!

LuckyCat posted:

ABSORBER posted:

My advice. Have your son contact them ASAP. Send metrics, video, and provide current GPA, test scores (if he has them), and let them know why he is interested in Brown. They didn't appear to have any 2020 commits (from what I could see) until this past summer. That doesn't mean they didn't have any--it just means they weren't posted on the usual sites (PG and PBR). And that also doesn't mean they weren't looking at recruits and didn't have their "list". Quite the opposite. I believe that could be said of all the Ivy's. They are certainly tracking 2021's and know who they want to go after. Some have plenty of 2021 commitments already. Now is the time to let them know you are very interested.

My son talked with the Brown HC at Showball (August date in Medford, NY). He had contacted them at the beginning of summer but at the time Brown was not his first choice. As his choices narrowed he began to give them more thought and spent time looking at the school and thinking about if it would be a fit academically. He decided it was. The Brown HC told him he liked him but they were looking at several others ahead of him at his position. Which said to me my son was a bit late to the party.

It also told me they are not a very good judge of talent!  ;-)

Absorber, I don't think your son was late to the party.  Your son is on their list, which is not fixed in stone.  Hopefully they will get more chances to see him play this summer and realize their mistake.  From what I'm seeing, most HA schools, including most of the Ivies, are just getting started with the 2021s.  

Good luck to him and to BaseballDad72's son!

No, he's a 2020 so he was definitely late! I made that comment because I wanted the OP and others to realize how important it is to start communicating with Ivy coaches! Especially true for 2021's!

As for my son, he committed to a different school which I think was a better fit for him.

BaseballDad72 posted:

Wow, thanks for all the info. Son is 1350 SAT and 4.5 weighted with lots of APs. He probably is within lower part of index threshold. Right now he’s not going to be the stud pitcher recruit but maybe a solid get later in the recruiting game. 

His academic credentials are solid! Of course his SAT could be higher but it is fine for Ivy as long as they want him for baseball. 1350 is about the minimum for Harvard, Princeton and Yale. I say that because my son just went through this process. If he is not one of their top recruits then they may want his SAT a bit higher--to offset one or two of their top recruits. Of course his best bet is to get a better SAT and be the best ballplayer he can be! That of course is true for every kid out there trying to play in college!

BaseballDad72 posted:

Wow, thanks for all the info. Son is 1350 SAT and 4.5 weighted with lots of APs. He probably is within lower part of index threshold. Right now he’s not going to be the stud pitcher recruit but maybe a solid get later in the recruiting game. 

Not sure what you mean by "solid get later in the recruiting game."  Ivies have a pretty fixed schedule; they scout junior year (including PG underclass Ft Myers) and summer before senior year (including going to the big 17U tournaments), make offers at the end of the summer, so that their players can apply ED at the end of October with coach support.  There may be a few who get in on their own RD, who end up playing.

Not sure what Brown specifically is looking for; I'm sure they want 6'2"+ and 88mph+ for rhp, but, from looking at PG's commits in the last few years, I'm not sure they are getting that. 

BaseballDad72 posted:

Wow, thanks for all the info. Son is 1350 SAT and 4.5 weighted with lots of APs. He probably is within lower part of index threshold. Right now he’s not going to be the stud pitcher recruit but maybe a solid get later in the recruiting game. 

His scores are close enough as long as the coach really wants him.  My son was being recruited by Dartmouth, Brown & Yale and his scores were slightly under yours but after sending them all his transcripts, SAT etc they were confident they could get him in. 

Also, as someone else mentioned for RHP's they are looking for min of 88-89 for RHP and I do believe they get that all day long.  There are many crazy smart and talented kids out there. 

Yeah, aware of high 80s bar for Ivies. If my kids going to get there it’ll be post HS season at earliest. He’s 83-84 at first bullpen today and can put on another 10-15 lbs on frame. We will see. Kid is working his tail off and that’s all he can do. Thanks for all of the support and input. It’s always super helpful.

BaseballDad72 posted:

Wow, thanks for all the info. Son is 1350 SAT and 4.5 weighted with lots of APs. He probably is within lower part of index threshold. Right now he’s not going to be the stud pitcher recruit but maybe a solid get later in the recruiting game. 

Weighted doesn’t matter. There isn’t a standard. It’s about unweighted gpa and the level of courses. The bar moves on acceptance for athletes depending on how badly they want you and how important the sport is to the school. 

BASEBALLDAD72, if your son is sitting 83-85 he is in the ballpark. Sure all the Ivy's want pitchers who are consistently in the upper 80's. Lots of other D1's are looking for the same players! The reality for Ivy coaches is it is very difficult to recruit a pitcher who is sitting upper 80's, low 90's. That kid HAS to want to play Ivy. Because of the recruiting timeline many other D1's come calling for kids sitting in that range. Most kids, unless they are only targeting Ivy, cannot resist an attractive offer from one of these schools. Don't underestimate the pressure these kids feel to commit early; it's reality. If your son wants to play Ivy and is laser-focused he needs to pursue it 100%. If other offers come earlier he needs to put them off as long as he can until he knows the Ivy dream is over. Which is usually too late (late summer before senior year) in the recruiting cycle. Unfortunately, kids usually simply CANNOT wait long enough to receive this offer. Because of that the Ivy schools are taking pitchers who throw low to mid 80's and maybe can touch upper 80's or at least project to be in that range in the future. Emphasis on project.

I now know from firsthand experience how hard it is for a player to commit to an Ivy school. I learned a couple of years ago on this site what a "likely letter" was but what I didn't know is that they CANNOT be given UNTIL an early decision (ED) application is RECEIVED! We are talking October of senior year at the earliest. I will caveat that by saying while there are never any guarantees, and that includes likely letters, when an Ivy coach makes a verbal offer it is extremely likely that player will end up on campus as long as nothing changes on the player's end. You can track this by taking a look at Ivy commitments from previous years and checking current Ivy rosters. Of course to be really meaningful you would have to have been actively checking over the last few years--only then would you see WHEN a player commits (before the ED period) and then make sure he ends up on the roster later. So getting an offer at the early part of the Ivy recruiting cycle (during junior school year or earlier) is the best bet. Still challenging because there are NO GUARANTEES. Your son has to keep up the academics and either already have the requisite test scores or be very confidant he can get them!

If you look at the Ivy commits (2021's and earlier) you will see that very few sit upper 80's. Of course you have to actively search for metrics on these players from multiple sources. A lot are old so it's really hard to say where they were when they committed but my belief is there were NOT sitting upper 80's. If they were then the pressure to commit to other D1 schools would have possibly prevented them from going Ivy. There is a reason very few Ivy commits are highly ranked players (PG, PBR)--it is a very difficult recruiting timeline--exactly what I'm trying to show in the points I've written above.

So my belief is the vast majority players showed something to these coaches at a prospect camp or another high academic showcase. Sure they may have hit the upper 80's threshold but I'd be willing to bet they had not hit it earlier for all the reasons I outlined above. But if they didn't hit it then I believe Ivy coaches think they project to be there eventually.

Of course I'll close by saying this is only my opinion. You will have to do similar research and perhaps you'll reach the same conclusion as I did!

RJM posted:

BaseballDad72 posted:

Wow, thanks for all the info. Son is 1350 SAT and 4.5 weighted with lots of APs. He probably is within lower part of index threshold. Right now he’s not going to be the stud pitcher recruit but maybe a solid get later in the recruiting game. 

Weighted doesn’t matter. There isn’t a standard. It’s about unweighted gpa and the level of courses. The bar moves on acceptance for athletes depending on how badly they want you and how important the sport is to the school. 

I agree. My son only posted unweighted GPA scores. This tells the school the student works hard to keep his grades up. And as RJM says above, academic rigor is important. My son's was not the strongest--he never really considered Ivy until his junior year. He had decided he was going to get a chance to play in college so he figured he could take an easier course load. He thought as long as his grades were good (he's a 4.0 unweighted) college coaches would be happy! Now as a senior he's taking 3 more AP courses but of course it's a little late!

I'm pretty sure my son only gave weighted; his high school did not calculate an unweighted GPA.  I don't know if coaches ever asked for unweighted - obviously when they got transcripts they could see his grades, and the classes he took.  A GPA over 4.0 indicates AP/honors classes, regardless of how a school does it.

I have zero experience with college application process yet but I’m not sure I agree weighted doesn’t matter for HA schools. No offense to anyone but getting A’S in an AP courses is different than less rigorous courses and getting a 4.0. So high weighted would seem to matter a lot, at least IMO. Again, all great and useful info. Going to an interesting summer and fall.

BaseballDad72 posted:

I have zero experience with college application process yet but I’m not sure I agree weighted doesn’t matter for HA schools. No offense to anyone but getting A’S in an AP courses is different than less rigorous courses and getting a 4.0. So high weighted would seem to matter a lot, at least IMO. Again, all great and useful info. Going to an interesting summer and fall.

Yeah, not sure if there is a standard on official transcripts.  From my experience, GPA (weighted or unweighted)  is not asked about on the college application but of course you have to submit official transcripts. But coaches definitely told my son an unweighted 4.0 was more attractive than a weighted GPA. But of course there are plenty of discussions outside of baseball on this--less than 4.0 and very rigorous vs. 4.0 and less rigorous. 

All 8 Ivy's use the Common App for admissions. The Common App tells you to submit weighted GPA if your school calculates both.  FWIW

I'm a little reluctant to share this but perhaps it may add some extra "weight" to the personal opinions I've shared--but to be clear--they are still my personal opinions and not to be taken as gospel.

My son is an Ivy commit. Scratch that, he's now an Ivy admit.

LousyLefty posted:

All 8 Ivy's use the Common App for admissions. The Common App tells you to submit weighted GPA if your school calculates both.  FWIW

 

Yep, I was too lazy to check earlier. LousyLefty is correct, weighted GPA is asked on the common app (if school uses weighted scores) but I'm thinking the official transcript may be considered a bit more accurate than self-reported scores.

I think the bottom line here is that the recruiting process is not an exact science...and that goes for any level D1, D3, IVY etc.  But thats what these boards are for so everyone can share their experience and give you a rough idea of what it takes.

Just keep working hard in the classroom & on the field; hopefully, your son will be rewarded.  Id also say dont get caught up in the D1/IVY hype.  There are some amazing academic D3 schools that are playing high level ball. 

My kid’s high school didn’t have public weighted gpa. The kids figured they have weighted privately. The reason is 5ere we’re kids with lower unweighted gpa’s with a higher class rank.

The weighted/unweighted issue isn't that important.

First, each Ivy dissects each application and calculates whatever it wants to calculate (an A in AP human geography may not be given the same cred as an A in AP chem). Second, some schools give honors "As" a 5.0 and AP "As" a 6.0; other schools weigh honors and AP the same - so comparing GPAs isn't comparing apples to apples. Third, and most important, is the rigor of the HS curriculum WHEN COMPARED TO LIKE HIGH SCHOOLS (a kid in a HS offering 16 APs has a higher theoretical GPA potential when compared to a school offering 4 APs). So, a kid is expected to take - and make - virtually straight As in the most rigorous curriculum offered by his HS (the school is looking for kids who have proven that they haven't yet hit their academic ceiling, but did hit the ceiling in their respective HS's).

(I would also note that very few Ivy kids take advantage of claiming college credits for those successful AP scores; the student is generally not ready to skip that introductory class. This creates a strange situation where an intro class in, let's say, physics is populated by kids who got a 5 on their AP physics test as well as kids who didnt take AP physics. A tough time for those who didnt take the AP class.)

IMO, the kid who is sitting 90 with a 34 ACT should absolutely wait for the Ivy timeline; they give up absolutely nothing if they want to get to proball and get every benefit (headstart) of an Ivy (and the benefits are real and long lasting). Moreover, many coaches of power programs will always have room for one more 90mph pitcher who doesnt need to worry about academic eligibility (my son was getting offers and serious interest up until he committed - after his OV -  in September senior year).

In a word, they do pre-reads.  If they like your son's baseball, and they like his ACT/SAT, they ask for scores and transcripts, and run it by their admissions office.  Admissions makes the final decision; most coaches will have a sense of what grades in what courses their specific admissions office wants.  Coaches will tell you if admissions says the record will work or not.  Some will ask for this as early as mid-junior year.

^^^^ This. Make sure you have a copy of your son's transcripts.  It doesn't have to be official, but son's coach asked for the transcrips for a pre-read between soph-jr summer.  And then again, and again.  (Non-Ivy, high academic D1).  Just have a copy ready.

Son was an early commit, and I think the coach wanted make sure son kept up his grades.....and got in the 4 years of a language that was required.  Better to get that language requirement in in high school than college.

I get a little concerned when I see posters focused on one school.  Brown is a great school, but I think you need to broaden your search to "Brown-like" schools.   This isn't just semantics, your son really needs to think this way.  Brown is in the Ivy conference, and each of those schools are very different from each other.   The one thing they have in common is their athletic conference and rules around how they recruit in that athletic conference.   That is it.   Brown is very, very different.   So, my best advice would be to research schools like Brown and focus on who they recruit, where they recruit, and how they recruit.   Years ago, Brown used to only recruit from private schools nationally, and they focused on hitting.   In my Ivy experience (2011-2014) the top of their hitting lineup was pretty darn good.   Defense and pitching were not their strengths.   I don't know their recruiting strategy and focus areas these days.  As for the other schools like Brown that is your homework.

FWIW - At the D1 level schools like Brown, and others want to know that others schools are seriously recruiting your son.   He has to build a market for himself.   Again, this is going to require that he broaden his search and consider many schools to build that market.  Coaches need to know your son is in demand, and he needs to be given a reason to take him off the market (give him an offer).

PS...I will help qualify Absorber's comments about commits prior to 2021.  Again, back in 2011-14 I saw almost all Ivy starting pitchers in the high 80s' with control of multiple pitches.   There were a handful of guys in the low 90s.   Relievers are a different matter entirely.

As always, JMO.   Best of luck!

Thanks Fenway. My sons got a wider list than Brown. Understand your overall point. As a former early 90s DI pitcher, it amazes me how hard kids throw these days. I was curious about the coach at Brown more than anything and the culture of the team. Kid likes Brown campus and I think open curriculum appeals to him. Thanks!

Goosegg posted:

Third, and most important, is the rigor of the HS curriculum WHEN COMPARED TO LIKE HIGH SCHOOLS (a kid in a HS offering 16 APs has a higher theoretical GPA potential when compared to a school offering 4 APs). So, a kid is expected to take - and make - virtually straight As in the most rigorous curriculum offered by his HS (the school is looking for kids who have proven that they haven't yet hit their academic ceiling, but did hit the ceiling in their respective HS's).

 

IMO, this may be the most insightful sentence I’ve read on this site. And that’s saying a lot. Thank you for this. 

fenwaysouth posted:

I get a little concerned when I see posters focused on one school.  Brown is a great school, but I think you need to broaden your search to "Brown-like" schools.   This isn't just semantics, your son really needs to think this way.  Brown is in the Ivy conference, and each of those schools are very different from each other.   The one thing they have in common is their athletic conference and rules around how they recruit in that athletic conference.   That is it.   Brown is very, very different.   So, my best advice would be to research schools like Brown and focus on who they recruit, where they recruit, and how they recruit.   Years ago, Brown used to only recruit from private schools nationally, and they focused on hitting.   In my Ivy experience (2011-2014) the top of their hitting lineup was pretty darn good.   Defense and pitching were not their strengths.   I don't know their recruiting strategy and focus areas these days.  As for the other schools like Brown that is your homework.

FWIW - At the D1 level schools like Brown, and others want to know that others schools are seriously recruiting your son.   He has to build a market for himself.   Again, this is going to require that he broaden his search and consider many schools to build that market.  Coaches need to know your son is in demand, and he needs to be given a reason to take him off the market (give him an offer).

PS...I will help qualify Absorber's comments about commits prior to 2021.  Again, back in 2011-14 I saw almost all Ivy starting pitchers in the high 80s' with control of multiple pitches.   There were a handful of guys in the low 90s.   Relievers are a different matter entirely.

As always, JMO.   Best of luck!

 

 

Doesn’t look like much has changed. Five players hitting over .250. Team era of 6.99.

RJM posted:

fenwaysouth posted:

I get a little concerned when I see posters focused on one school.  Brown is a great school, but I think you need to broaden your search to "Brown-like" schools.   This isn't just semantics, your son really needs to think this way.  Brown is in the Ivy conference, and each of those schools are very different from each other.   The one thing they have in common is their athletic conference and rules around how they recruit in that athletic conference.   That is it.   Brown is very, very different.   So, my best advice would be to research schools like Brown and focus on who they recruit, where they recruit, and how they recruit.   Years ago, Brown used to only recruit from private schools nationally, and they focused on hitting.   In my Ivy experience (2011-2014) the top of their hitting lineup was pretty darn good.   Defense and pitching were not their strengths.   I don't know their recruiting strategy and focus areas these days.  As for the other schools like Brown that is your homework.

FWIW - At the D1 level schools like Brown, and others want to know that others schools are seriously recruiting your son.   He has to build a market for himself.   Again, this is going to require that he broaden his search and consider many schools to build that market.  Coaches need to know your son is in demand, and he needs to be given a reason to take him off the market (give him an offer).

PS...I will help qualify Absorber's comments about commits prior to 2021.  Again, back in 2011-14 I saw almost all Ivy starting pitchers in the high 80s' with control of multiple pitches.   There were a handful of guys in the low 90s.   Relievers are a different matter entirely.

As always, JMO.   Best of luck!

 

 

Doesn’t look like much has changed. Five players hitting over .250. Team era of 6.99.

To be fair, Clemson had 5 guys hitting over .250. Team era of 4.47 though. And yes, I know, it's a different conference!

But there are plenty of D1 schools with similar statistics. I would say that if gaining an Ivy (or other HA) education is important to you and you can use baseball as a means to get that education, then the team BA and ERA really doesn't matter!  ;-)

But to fenway's point, I do think it's important to broaden the search because teams have different needs at different times and they may not coincide with your plans!

Here's my two cents on Brown. As is the case, a number of the Ivy schools are looking at the same players. The Academic Index (AI) is one of the data points taken. As Goosegg has mentioned RIGOR of the curriculum is a key point as well. Most Ivy players have had other D1 offers (i.e. have "D1 tools"). I agree that the player should reach out to the Ivies early on, and the Academic showcases are good visibility where most of the Ivies attend (I think Showball had a showcase where all 8 HC's attended). I feel that school specific camps are good to attend as well, once a player is "on the radar." In my opinion, very few are discovered there- the sought players have send video and communications before the camp. My son had focused on primarily Ivies and Patriot league schools. Son was a 2015, and the time table may have moved up for some P and C, but most of the offers are summer before senior year.

Fenway's response on "widening net" is good advice. Son had one Ivy in the mix where he had constant communication and then at one point things went totally quiet. Fortunately for son, another school in conference that he pursued (mutual) came through, once Big State U offered.. As I've said before, son didn't know that he was "#1 on the board" until the couple of days leading to his offer, where all coaches on staff were in agreement."  You can't let up putting your foot to the pedal!

Most Ivy schools seem to have a good #1 and #2 SP. The schools who have an effective #3 and #4 or closer are more successful. Brown has a turf field, so it's surprising they have had issues with fielding in the past. Not sure what the dimensions are but I've seen a # of HRs to left field, so I sense it's shorter there.  Brown is open to 2-way players as they have a player who is a 1B/SP on roster now. (I think he was probably considered their #2 SP last year). Also, Brown regularly posts their NEXT Year's RECRUITING class the soonest of the Ivies. (Seems to be right after season ends).  Best of luck to the OP and his son.

ABSORBER posted:

RJM posted:

fenwaysouth posted:

I get a little concerned when I see posters focused on one school.  Brown is a great school, but I think you need to broaden your search to "Brown-like" schools.   This isn't just semantics, your son really needs to think this way.  Brown is in the Ivy conference, and each of those schools are very different from each other.   The one thing they have in common is their athletic conference and rules around how they recruit in that athletic conference.   That is it.   Brown is very, very different.   So, my best advice would be to research schools like Brown and focus on who they recruit, where they recruit, and how they recruit.   Years ago, Brown used to only recruit from private schools nationally, and they focused on hitting.   In my Ivy experience (2011-2014) the top of their hitting lineup was pretty darn good.   Defense and pitching were not their strengths.   I don't know their recruiting strategy and focus areas these days.  As for the other schools like Brown that is your homework.

FWIW - At the D1 level schools like Brown, and others want to know that others schools are seriously recruiting your son.   He has to build a market for himself.   Again, this is going to require that he broaden his search and consider many schools to build that market.  Coaches need to know your son is in demand, and he needs to be given a reason to take him off the market (give him an offer).

PS...I will help qualify Absorber's comments about commits prior to 2021.  Again, back in 2011-14 I saw almost all Ivy starting pitchers in the high 80s' with control of multiple pitches.   There were a handful of guys in the low 90s.   Relievers are a different matter entirely.

As always, JMO.   Best of luck!

 

 

Doesn’t look like much has changed. Five players hitting over .250. Team era of 6.99.

To be fair, Clemson had 5 guys hitting over .250. Team era of 4.47 though. And yes, I know, it's a different conference!

But there are plenty of D1 schools with similar statistics. I would say that if gaining an Ivy (or other HA) education is important to you and you can use baseball as a means to get that education, then the team BA and ERA really doesn't matter!  ;-)

But to fenway's point, I do think it's important to broaden the search because teams have different needs at different times and they may not coincide with your plans!

When was the last time Clemson played .308 ball (12-27)? It’s an annual event for Brown. But if a kid wants to get accepted at Brown baseball is an avenue. He can either learn to accept losing or walk away once he’s in. 

Ripken Fan posted:

Not sure what the dimensions are but I've seen a # of HRs to left field, so I sense it's shorter there.  

It's 343 to the left field pole and 391 to center.   I just looked at some video from when my son played there (must have played there 5 times this summer).  We did see a few HR's to left center.   It's hard not to like Brown.  I do like their field but man in the middle of the summer its an oven and there are only like 5 rows behind home that get any shade.   

You would be dreaming about that oven during the baseball season!

Going to just chime in about velocity for P at Brown and other Ivies.  Anyone who thinks mid 80s is enough to get a rare Ivy commit is probably dreaming.  Sorry to be harsh.  Even lefties have to be 87+.  You cannot just look at old PG numbers for commits and think that was the P max velo at Hf or Showball or the school's own camp.  

Maybe if a sidearm guy you can be mid 80s but hitting 90 or damn near close is a magic number, and almost all the Ivy coaches want to see that in the P they support.  Sure, guys get into the school and end up on the roster.  Brown has at least 2 P we know who got in on their own (and one has actually pitched quite a bit and his velo was not high enough to be one of the guys the coaches supported our year, but has turned out to be a valuable contributor).  

For the OP, at 83-84 your son will have to be very tall and thin and the coaches will need to believe he is projectable.  Most Ivies get 6-8 slots depending on the year and usually half those will be P.  However, it is January, and if he can bring that velo up at least 4-5 mph without losing control, he can get himself on the radar screen.  

Hey TwoBoys,

Totally hear you on the velo.

There are a number of DI pitchers in my son's travel program and the parents I've spoken to say similar stuff, i.e. 90 is the magic number. On the other hand, I've seen quite a bit of Ivy RHP commits whose PG velos as late as October of this year sat mid-80s and maybe touched 87-88. Maybe they were at the tail end of long season and were down a tick or two. A lot of the kids around here that have verbally committed to bigger programs touch low 90s but sit upper 80s and these are better programs than Ivies (Big Ten, ACC, etc.)

And I agree: Getting on the roster and getting support from the HC to get in are two totally different scenarios. If I were to guess, my kid will be mid-80s by early summer (he's going to Showball in Plano TX in June right after high school season) so that timing should be good. He is 6'1 maybe 6'1 and a half and I think he's still growing and 175 lbs, lean and long. Could put on another 20 lbs for sure on frame and hopes to put on another 10 or so by summer. He's not super tall and crazy lanky, which I know is the more projectible scenario.

Oh to be a lefty! 

We will see. His explicit goal is to get into the best possible academic situation. I've kinda drilled it into him that baseball is temporary and can be a great experience, but your degree and the quality of your college education is what lasts. 

Brown came to see a teammate at a tournament in Dallas last summer. 6’3-6’4 lefty throwing 83-85, has topped 87.  No dice.

I don't think there is any magic number for velocity anywhere. I knew a kid who was being recruited hard by a few Ivys and he was topping at 86. I know others who were 88 and couldn't get an email back. All anecdotal, but being around players who have had interest from these types of school I would say the majority would be closer to 80 than 90 on any given day of the week. 

There is definitely good baseball in the Ivy League, but to say recruits need to be 88+ at an Ivy bottom feeder probably wouldn't be accurate considering there are probably less than 30 guys in the Ivy League total throwing 90+. It helps to throw harder no doubt, but you aren't disqualified with an 86mph fastball. Lefty pitchers throwing 87+ really have to want the Ivy education because there are plenty of power programs that would be interested. 

PABaseball posted:

I don't think there is any magic number for velocity anywhere. I knew a kid who was being recruited hard by a few Ivys and he was topping at 86. I know others who were 88 and couldn't get an email back. All anecdotal, but being around players who have had interest from these types of school I would say the majority would be closer to 80 than 90 on any given day of the week. 

There is definitely good baseball in the Ivy League, but to say recruits need to be 88+ at an Ivy bottom feeder probably wouldn't be accurate considering there are probably less than 30 guys in the Ivy League total throwing 90+. It helps to throw harder no doubt, but you aren't disqualified with an 86mph fastball. Lefty pitchers throwing 87+ really have to want the Ivy education because there are plenty of power programs that would be interested. 

This! ^^^

That is just not what we saw.  One lefty topped 87 (6A all state) no offers, another lefty tops 89 committed D2.  Offers were not flying off the shelves like one would expect.

So, here is what I can offer anybody on this board after watching 80+ in conference Ivy league games over 4 years....velocity matters a lot.  Right directly behind velocity is pitching variety, and control.  Whether you want to believe it or not, velocity is big but other parts of the total recruiting package have to be in place as well.   In terms of recruiting, velocity matters, command and control matters, grades matter, ACT/SAT scores matter.   Where this kind of goes down a different path is when you consider the kind of pitcher the recruit is in the eyes of the recruiting coach.   The recruiting coach is trying to build a pitching staff.   Coaches know what they are looking for and know what their team needs.  Ivy teams have roughly 32 players (let's keep it simple).  Half of the roster is pitchers..so 16.   Half of those recruited pitchers will not see the field with any great number of innings in a particular year.   3-4 guys are going to be your SPs.  2 relievers and possibly a lefty specialist and a couple closers at best.   So, in total 7-8 pitchers are going to be carrying the load on the mound for the year.    Those are the Ivy pitchers that I (and others on this board that I know) saw the same thing in terms of velocity between SPs, relievers, specialists and closers.   Most teams had a variety of those pitchers that got the bulk of the innings.   My sons soph year there were:  2 freshmen SPs, 1 soph SP, and a senior SP.  We also had a middle reliever, a ground ball specialist that was filthy, a lefty specialist and a freshmen closer.  The higher velocity SP guys and our closer were hitting 90s routinely but they only had two pitches....they eventually would go into pro baseball.  The soph SP and senior SP had 4 pitches with pinpoint control and could hit 90 if they needed to, but rarely needed to. These guys were more of your Greg Maddux, Kyle Hendricks types.

So, ask yourself when you hear these anecdotal stories....is this Ivy guy I'm hearing about finding the playing field or is this guy on the bench.   For the guys on the field, is this guy a two pitch flame thrower or a 4 pitch control pitcher?  If you hear about a 4 pitch flame thrower then he is probably playing for Stanford.   The Ivy used to play 2 doubleheaders on Sat and Sunday and they played within a division format.   Since that time, they've gone to 3 game format on fri, sat, sunday where every team plays each other 3 times.   Bottom line...there are less SPs now.

Just my experience....

Assistant coach at Brown notoriously bad at communication. Mack is his name. Head coach good guy. 

Whitesoxcubscout,

It is no big secret that many asst coaches and recruiting coaches are terrible communicators.  Chief among them is the ability to tell time and follow up as promised.   I guess this is no different than most walks of life.  My son worked with some outstanding coaches who did exactly what they said they would do when they said they would do it, and then there a handful of RCs that just lied to his face.   This can be a tough lesson for a 16-17 year old kid that is excited about the possibilities of playing college baseball at an Ivy or elsewhere.   

My best advice is a cast a wide net among the Ivys and other HAs you or your son may be considering.  Over the 20 months my son was active with recruiting; he had communication, interest or serious interest from 7 of the 8 Ivys. Clearly he was fishing in the right pond.   There was one school that never responded to him....yes, you guessed it.   That was under a different Head Coach, but as I said earlier in this thread it appears not much has changed.

Just our experiences.   Best of luck!

Current HC at Brown was former assistant. Starting to see more movement in assistant coaches in Ivies. Brown is usually the first of the Ivies to announce their upcoming recruiting class on their website.

Roster Turnover Insights

Looks like Brown average between 6 and 8 new players per year

Wow.  CBI posted a graphic that I can actually see.   :-)

Life is good.

@T_Thomas posted:

Wow.  CBI posted a graphic that I can actually see.   :-)

Life is good.

Not a graph, If you want to see the real data driven information vs speculation,

www.collegebaseballinsights.com, subscription is affordable

Coming soon attrition by position.

Just messin' with you.  Appreciate the info.

@T_Thomas posted:

Just messin' with you.  Appreciate the info.

It took me a while to cut and paste from the webpage.  Need to create an excel download feature in the next release.

Just get a screenshot app like Greenshot. Can capture entire screen or just selected regions, and send to clipboard, jpeg file, or printer.  I use it all the time for printing or pasting custom sections of web pages.