Bryce Harper'ing High School-Sort of

Is he going to be a first round draft pick?

Is he dominating opponents 2-3 years older than him.

Will he be able to compete with player 3-4 years older than him?

The worst part of Bryce Harper leaving HS early is that everyone else would think they were just as good and it was a smart move.

There are a whole bunch of 2012's throwing in the "high 80's". There are probably half a dozen throwing in the high 90's.

My LHP 2012 son is throwing in the high 80's (high is touching 90 and throwing 88-89 his last few times out). Would I suggest he graduate early? No way. There are dozens of kids doing the same thing.

Bryce Harper was a once in a generation situation. Most HS programs have issues. Deal with it. Everyone else has to, unless you're a once in a generation player...

homerun04,

No, probably a mid round.

Yes he does.

?????

JMoff,

I go to the rival high school. We live in an area where there are about 50 high schools within breathing distance. When I mean terrible program I don't mean worst team, I mean other problems with the coaches, etc. that everyone else outside that school just laugh about. You can see some stuff unfold before your eyes as you are playing that team. It's really bad over there, and I don't even go there.

The kid who graduated from high school early was Robert Stock. He was the dominating player in his age group starting at being Baseball America 14U player of the year. He was also 15U and 16U player of the year. He threw 90 at age fourteen. He played in the Area Code games and 18U Team USA at sixteen. Does this sound like your friend?

quote:

Originally posted by the big mac:
homerun04,

No, probably a mid round.

Yes he does.

?????

JMoff,

I go to the rival high school. We live in an area where there are about 50 high schools within breathing distance. When I mean terrible program I don't mean worst team, I mean other problems with the coaches, etc. that everyone else outside that school just laugh about. You can see some stuff unfold before your eyes as you are playing that team. It's really bad over there, and I don't even go there.

All he needs to do is get on a quality summer team with college contacts.

Yes, crazy. There are more than dozens, there are hundreds.

Leaving HS early and going to JC does not improve one's draft stock. Is the JC program that good that he will improve? Probably not.

FWIW, Stock left school early because he converted to catcher and needed the work. He is young, but is batting .216 in low class A. I don't know how he performs as a catcher, talk is he might be converted to pitcher.

Most of what has been written against the move has to do with talent level. If the program is that bad due to high school coach incompetence, why not? He gets his diploma, and he avoids a contenious season with a terrible coach. Pitchers are usually the ones to suffer the most under these conditions. Not used enough, overused, abused.......and for what? If it were my kid, I'd entertain the idea. Just had to go against the grain......

Why not consider transfering to another HS in the area? We know a player who did just that this year for the same reason. He is also a 2012 grad.

quote:

Originally posted by Thurm:
Why not consider transfering to another HS in the area? We know a player who did just that this year for the same reason. He is also a 2012 grad.

Bingo.....why reinvent the wheel? It happens every day.

What are we teaching out kids when we alllow them to transfer in times when they run into things they do not like?

Don't do anything. Most high school seasons are 20-25 games. Not worth changing scenery for so few games. High school ball generally does not determine whether he can play in college. Summer tournaments and showcases will.

Also, he is not the next Bryce Harper. Stay in high school and develop the physical and mental maturity necessary to compete at the collegiate level.

quote:

Originally posted by the big mac:
My friend is a 2012 RHP. He throws upper 80's, top notch travel team, the whole bit. The baseball program at his high school is terribly run. His question through me to any and all of you is would it be a bad idea to graduate early, and play at a JC instead of his senior year of high school? Keep in mind he will have a diploma, thanks to summer courses, not a GED, so he would be eligible for NCAA coming out of high school, in case that matters for transfering later on. He has a 3.5 GPA Keep in mind he's not leaving two years early like Harper, it's only one year early.

I heard of a kid a couple years ago do this but he went to USC, not a JC.

Reasons for making this move: Improve his draft stock by pitching for a JC team, instead of HS ball, which is as I said before is a joke where he goes.

Get him transfered to a D1 school earlier than if he stayed in high school and then went to a JC, but he got a year of college ball in as well.

Is he CRAZY?

Please comment, Thanks.

IMO the only real reason your friend is considering this is because his HS program is "terribly run" and you later referred to "problems with coaches". You mentioned other reasons for making the move, but actually those are just a list of "pros" in considering the pros and cons to the decision. I think this idea is a real bad one if that's the only reason he is wants to leave.

Here's why - part of maturing is learning how to deal with all different kinds of people and situations (even "bad" coaches and losing teams) and staying focused on getting better at what you do (in this case baseball) no matter what's going on around you. It's not a fun situation, but it could be a very important life lesson that he'll be able to use if he does play baseball beyond HS and has to deal with other coaches, teammates, or teams that aren't very good, etc. Some people (seemingly more and more these days) never learn this lesson because they want to find a way out every time somebody does something they don't like.

If your buddy is lucky enough to get scouted, the scouts will know about the "situation" at the HS and take that into account as they evaluate him. If they see him pitching well, working hard, hustling, and offering leadership to other teammates - even in the crummy environment his "bad" coaches have created, he'll generate even more respect from the scouts, IMO.

Thurm mentioned transferring to another HS. Don't know about the rules in your state, but in TX you can't transfer for athletic reasons without sitting out a year. There's a high-profile case of this playing out in football in the DFW area right now, so be careful!

WAG!

I agree with CD and TR. First of all, don't teach a kid to run away from adversity. Obviously I don't know everything that is wrong with this program but even if the program was a great one I don't see it helping his draft stock much and I don't think this bad one will hurt it any. Just keep playing with the 'top notch' travel team and tough out the high school season.

And even if his HS situation is really that bad, I think it would be better to just sit out the year and continue on with his senior year. The summer season is where most of the exposure occurs anyways.

--------------------------------

It's me against the rest here I guess. I disagree. The arguements against it are;

Development of character....
Face your problems, don't run away....
Sitting out would be a better approach...
It's part of the maturation process.....
It's an important life lesson....
Scouts will give him brownie points for sticky it out.....
It's a short season, stick it out........
You are taking the easy way out..........
If you have to ....transfer to another high school

The way read it is.....the kid is already good enough to play at a junior college. He is smart enough to obtain his diploma during the summer and graduate a year early. Would you be against this move if it were an advanced academic gifted student and not related at all to baseball? Yes the high school baseball program is a major factor. Why not give him a little credit for thinking out of the box here? It's not a crazy idea. There are things that can happen to him in his senior year while pitching for his high school team. It would be nice to know more specifics about the coach because that might sway some opinions. Maybe he's going to be #1 and will pitch on a days rest with overuse a problem, so coach can get some wins. Maybe the coach has no clue how to manage a rotation and the kids arm is falling off going into the summer and fall college scrimmages. Recall....The Convention by JDFROMFLA. You can't transfer to a different school for athletic reasons....that's asking for trouble. Sitting out is not an option I'd consider. That causes more questions about character. If anything, early graduation is the harder more challenging way out...not the easy way. If their team is that bad....scouts won't show up anyway. The life lesson here is to be smarter than the problem, if you can avoid a fight then do it. All these statements are predicated on the degree of turmoil that is going on in the high school baseball program. If it's that bad.....why not?

Given the numbers I think he's better off staying in HS and using outside baseball to develop. His draft stock will be better after another year of maturity if he decides to go the JC route after HS. Better numbers will mean more than lesser numbers at a younger age.

The potential advantage of starting college early for a Stock or a Bauer is going into the draft as a young Junior. I don't think it is a big advantage.

CADad your opinion based on his draft potential has a valid point. But we really don't know enough about this kid's talent. I mean all we know is he throws upper eighties (?), RHP, mid round pick (by what scout's evaluation?), he dominates opponents 2-3 years older than him. How does he benefit from throwing say 50 meaningless innings for a pathetic high school team, with all the distractions, the spring weather in Washington?, and if he can graduate in the summer what kind of challenges academically is he likely to see as a senior. What if he has the support of his family? Maybe his father doesn't like the baseball program either. I just can't rule it out based on his draft status. There's so much other social and developmental variables in play here. So in answer to the question.....again, No I don't think he's crazy but I think his family has to be 100 % with him on this.

If the HS baseball program is corrupt than I would move on. If it's simply bad baseball then stick it out.

The boy was involved with a corrupt program for three years. He had the option of graduating early and had an opportunity to attend a U.C in the spring. "Let him be a kid" He needs to enjoy his last semester" "He'll miss his opportunity at the mlb draft", was the advice we recieved.

We followed the advice and the bb experience pretty much sucked as expected. He would have been far better off at the U.C or even the J.C. At the very least he would have been acquiring units. And if he had attended a J.C he still would have been eligible for the draft.

I get it ... This is the HS baseball web. and there's no shortage of warm and fuzzy stories on the HS bb experience. The coach May's of the world are few and far between. If the kid is ready to move on and can do so why not.

Big difference between moving on to a JC and moving on to a UC. I don't see an advantage in moving on to a JC unless there's a high probability of significant money from the draft after 1 year at the JC. Upper 80s doesn't say big money from the draft without significant improvement to me.

Agreed. Upper 80's at most local J.C's will get raked without a good secondary pitch. The original poster needs to define "terribly run".The only reason to move on would be if the HS program has a tradition of ruining players.

Locally a kid who threw 92-94 was drafted in the 50th round. He's attending school this fall.

quote:

Originally posted by Thurm:
Why not consider transfering to another HS in the area? We know a player who did just that this year for the same reason. He is also a 2012 grad.

Some states don't allow transfers without sitting out a year. Ours is one.

Also depends on what "upper 80s" means. I've seen it used for 85-86 and high 80s used for 87-89ish. Hard to say what the OP meant.

To clarify:

consistent 86-88, touches 89-90.

Transfering is out of the question, unless he wants to pitch JV his senior year.

I'd have to say he has the best changeup I've ever faced. Pretty good slider, too, but the changeup is devastating.

Corrupt is a great word for that program. Stubborn could be another great word. The best example I could use would completely give away which school I'm talking about to anyone from my area.

Here's a simple way to determine what to do. The pro scouts were crawling all over Harper and Stock. Are the scouts crawling all over your friend? If not, he should take the traditional route. As mentioned getting to college ball is more about the right summer team and showcasing than high school ball.

One thing you all forgot to mention, because he dominates at the HS level doesn't mean he is going to dominate at the JUCO level, or even play right away.

PA Dino,
Being a brilliant advanced student and done with all of your HS credits and going to college early is a lot different than this situation. And FWIW, if he is in a situation where he is being over used, if this player is thinking so out of the box, I am sure he k nows what is right from wrong and will speak up, isn't that what we tell our kids to do?

I have a feeling it's the other way around, player isn't playing as much as he would like?

No we shouldn't tell our kids to just pick up and make a change, college is understandable, if I am paying lots of money for son to go to college, I want him to be happy (most of the time) in the classroom as well as on the field. Most of you will find your players aren't 100% happy anyway, no matter where they go, making a change is a very tough decision and should be for the right reasons, not on a whim.

Better to get your innings in HS or on a good travel team rather than sitting on the bench.

HS players, IMO, should be thinking about preparation for the game at the college level (wher e one can improve their draft stock) rather than skip a year of HS, play JUCO to improve it. It just doesn't work that way. People here will tell you that they sent their players to JUCIO instead of 4 years to be eligible for the draft earlier, and it doesn't work that way either.

Harper was a unique situation, you probably will most likely not see that again (for awhile anyway) he was so far ahead of those his peers (nationally), no one would have pitched to him, he would have spent the rest of his HS years walking to first.

Alright, one more thing and than I'll let it stand. This kid might take advantage of a whole year of good development with a really good junior college program and a nice summer college wood bat league instead of spend a miserable pre season and season with the high school coach. Might be worth it to me.

Without giving too much away, it's not that he's not playing. It's not a personal problem with the coach. THE WHOLE TEAM WANTS HIM OUT. Varsity starter to JV benchwarmer. They all do.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
What are we teaching out kids when we alllow them to transfer in times when they run into things they do not like?

As you know by allowing kids to transfer when things are difficult we are teaching kids to runaway from problems.

It would have helped Harper to be a leader on his high school team. Becoming a leader takes time and practice. Just because you are a great player is no indication that the other players will follow your lead.

IMO, Harper has a ton of baseball talent but he is not very mature and it would have helped him to finish high school and maybe have 2 years at a JUCO.

quote:

Originally posted by the big mac:
Without giving too much away, it's not that he's not playing. It's not a personal problem with the coach. THE WHOLE TEAM WANTS HIM OUT. Varsity starter to JV benchwarmer. They all do.

Why would an entire team want a player out?

quote:

Originally posted by cbg:
IMO, Harper has a ton of baseball talent but he is not very mature and it would have helped him to finish high school and maybe have 2 years at a JUCO.

He is in the best place right now to grow up and he will do it real fast.

I'm not going to question the decision process of a guy who, at age 17, has achieved a net worth many times my own.

But leaving aside Bryce Harper, and addressing Big Mac:

I would suggest this player focus on improving through private work and the best travel program he can get himself into. This will assure that he progresses as a player and that he gets into the recruiting pipeline.

I would also suggest he stay in the school where he is and put up with it. Prove that you are a team player and that you can conduct yourself with grace in difficult situations.

I know of one boy who went to a gifted program where the baseball program was horrific. He is now pitching at UVA.

I know of others who played their sophomore year under a doofus coach. All of a sudden, the coach moved to another school, they got a new coach, and the whole program turned around.

Who knows which path might await your guy. But in the worst case, he can still make lemonade out of the lemons. And moving might mark him as a head case or a malcontent, which could hurt him more than anything else in both the short term and the long term.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
Here's a simple way to determine what to do. The pro scouts were crawling all over Harper and Stock. Are the scouts crawling all over your friend? If not, he should take the traditional route. As mentioned getting to college ball is more about the right summer team and showcasing than high school ball.

You got that right. And even if the kid played in the worst HS program and is a big time stud, he will be followed by the scouts. Sure a bad program could hinder or lessen opportunities to the good ballplayer with some shot to play at the next level but a stud will be immune to it because the stud in a garbage HS program will make his mark on a summer showcase team. If the pro scouts aren't hounding him, then somebody's pipe-dreaming thinking their kid can pull a Harper or a Stock.

Going the regular route and not rushing it is the way to go unless he's got a huge contract and signing bonus waiting for him.

Gee Mac my guess is you've already given it away to anyone from your area but just in case don't reveal any more.

This is a bit different from what I read into the original post. I thought you were talking about a weak program.

The reality is that there are a few very, very good players each year who get messed over by their HS coaches for one reason or another. Some are valid and some aren't. That's one reason why the ABD league out here was so useful for some players.

Unless he's got the option of playing in a league like the ABD spring league I'd say his best bet is still to grit his teeth and survive his senior season while doing whatever showcasing etc., he can to get exposure. That's based on experience with a similar situation.

quote:

Why would an entire team want a player out?

I think the big mac was saying that the whole team wants the coach out.

Julie

quote:

Originally posted by MN-Mom:

quote:

Why would an entire team want a player out?

I think the big mac was saying that the whole team wants the coach out.

Julie

If that is correct, then all the more reason NOT to abandon your team.
I am sure they are not the first team to wish the coach gone, happens everywhere and on every level, you'll even find that in pro ball.

There is something uniquely disturbing about this topic. There are a couple of grand assumptions being bandied about by the OP (draft, etc)....I can't escape the feeling that there's something rotten in Denmark here.

I don't know about Denmark but there might be something rotten in Space Needle, Washington or Duke, North Carolina besides a high school coach?

I will say from experience our son too was in a program run by a coach very few if any players liked. It was just his personality, he wasn't a bad coach really, expected things from his players. I originally was thinking of transferring him, he wanted to stay with his team mates. By his senior year he was so mad at this coach he was on the verge of quitting. I told him, your decision, he knew it would end soon and stayed on, liked the guys on the team. In the end, it all worked out, he got into a good JC program and is growing in many ways. We are so lucky he was recruited by this coach. In the end his HS career really didn't play into his recruitment, no one was bubbling over him like Harper. I still say to this day, NEVER plan on or count on MLB calling, if it happens it happens. Just play on a good summer team like our son did, that mattered the most for college recruitment.

life happens soon enough,why not enjoy the 4 yrs of high school.
when you jump ahead.....very hard to go back.

he's got his whole life in front of him.it comes fast enough.