Budgeting

I think that is what I spent on son during his entire HS career. It may be a better investment to bank that money. But you asked, this is just my opinon.

It's not your budget but what you spend your budget on. I know some people who have spent a college education getting to play college baseball, in return a 10-15% scholarship (now has to be at least 25% or for some, nothing). I know people who spent next to nothing and their sons got great scholarships or drafted well after HS. It's not the money you spend but the talent your son displays to play beyond HS.

JMO, but I think some people go way overboard on the issue. But that is their business. If done because they enjoy it and have the money to spend, that is their business. But most don't. The find themselves feeling very broke in the end and that is not a good thing. The money you have to lay out in college can be overwhelming for many.
Your son is a sophmore, why the need to spend so much? The biggest expense when budgeting should be junior fall, senior summer, senior fall (if not committed). If he is not signed by Novemeber, then you have to still plan until his senior spring.

Sounds like a lot of money to me unless it includes travel costs, hotels and food.

You shouldn't be paying that much just to join a team, attend a few showcases and play a few tournaments.

It is your money so spend what you are comfortable with. This subject use to bug the he// out of me, then I realized it is not my money that other people were spending. We spent a lot less than that for the first one, and the second one seems to be a little more but not near that figure. But that is me, I'm tight. If you are getting the sufficient amount of enjoyment for your money then spend it.

Parents see the price of exposure as investment


http://www.angelfire.com/vt/prospectwatch/StarNewsOnline.txt

Frank,
Now find me a similar article about players not as well known or talented as Upton and Bistrow.

BTW, players of that calibar often don't pay to play, they bring scouts and college coaches, sometimes that's an investment for whoever is running the event.

Parents of these players spend budgeted money on travel costs in lieu of showcase fees, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by luvthisgame:
I got to thinking, after this year I needed to come up with a budget for all the things that we do as a highly competeive Soph. player. But when I arrive at the end number it is kind of scary. I estimate a budget between 6-8k (for the year, everything incl. ). For some this may seem like a small amount, others not so.

It seems one really needs to be careful, in helping or boys pursue their dreams are we will be bankrupt in the process. Does it have to be like this? What about the US players from less the middle class situations, it does not seem to be fair.

I don't see why it should be so much. Legion ball is big in the area. Has your son passed on Legion ball for a high cost travel team like Tri-State or Cust? Does being on the team require taking X thousands of dollars worth of lessons?

My son played 50 travel games with ECTB/USSSA this summer for the cost of $450 and about $800 in gas and one hotel weekend. He's just entering high school so showcases aren't an issue yet. Fall ball is another $250 plus about $300 in gas.

When my daughter was in high school it was $700 to be on her travel team. We spent another $2,500 on gas, food and lodging. The travel was more expensive in 18U due to traveling overnight to an few showcases.

There are equipment costs. But they're not the same every year. They don't get gloves and bats every season.

From what I have seen, as a soph and 15 or 16, you should get your son on a team that will be heading to the Junior Olympics in Florida after his soph year.

Play other tournaments with that same team, preferrably in Mariette Georgia and hope that he gets noticed on these very good national competition venues.

A decent to stellar junior year will have him on the radar all around by this time if he has the pizzazz.

A couple more tournaments in the junior summer and a showcase with PG and Team One should have him situated for some calls before senior year starts.

That would be money well spent.

Would be more interesting to know how much money spent and what was their return on their investment.
I know many parents who spent money mostly on HS Showcases and played in couple of major tournaments and received way more $$$ and exposure for college than the parents who blew a ton of money on travel ball.

I did include meals, travel, tournament costs, showcase cost, Team cost, private lesson costs, in NJ we have to pay to workout from nov. to mar. this cost $$$ too.

sorry TPM we can not just go outside, like you all down south.

An average Elite team in our area runs $5000. this year. It includes usually 3 uniforms, Bag,and warmup jacket. The fees include at least 5-6 travel tournaments and all meals etc.
The average budget for a 25 man team was approx $125,000 and they were registered non profit teams. They allowed you to look at their books at anytime.
Personally we negptiated a much lower fee. One team broke their word and tried to make us pay more. We left after the season and played against them.
Other Elite teams run 7-10,000 and they pay their coaches and usually have professional trainers for pitching, catching etc.
I have a closet full of beautiful uniforms colecting dust.
I don't know how people can afford the costs these days. I cetainly don't think it is necessary. The last season before college I had enough video so we said we weren't going to play that year. They gave us a price we couldn't say no.
One team had events that you could chose wethet you would go or not. We said no. It was 450 US and they cut a deal for $100. Another parent was dipping into his retirement plan and I told him to say no. His son doesn't even play anymore. He spent a lot of money for nothing.
I enjoyed the BB experience but there is a limit. BB is always about trying to get noticed but I spent very little and knew I would have to market my son. Most of the offers we got through the Elite team were from cold weather schools and we knew we had to do it ourselves. I think the most we spent was $1200 .

THat's why you have a to choose a good organization to play for.

Florida has a bunch of good organizations and Jersey has at least two I can think of.

I recall the All American Prospects having a great year last year(2006), but with Lally and Weber pitching on the teams it was expected. (Both young enough to play the Junior Olympics and The 17 and under Championships.)

Weber made the YNT and helped win gold and is in pursuit of gold again this year with the JNT.

Lally got an Ivy invite at a Team One showcase.

Two kids that were never tall enough or threw hard enough, but they win ball games.

Stretching it, I'd say that they spent four grand a summer with the occasional parents' hotel included.

quote:

Originally posted by luvthisgame:
I did include meals, travel, tournament costs, showcase cost, Team cost, private lesson costs, in NJ we have to pay to workout from nov. to mar. this cost $$$ too.

sorry TPM we can not just go outside, like you all down south.

What does this have to do with going outside.

We are doing it exactly backwards.
We did Little League juniors in middle school which is cheap. H.S ball and Legion for the H.S. years which is around $250 for a summer season. Now that he has a college commitment heading into his senior year we are paying $2,500 for an elite team to play on this fall, work outs this winter, and 60-70 games next summer. Some will ask why not coast now that college ball is assured and go the cheap way you have always gone or don't play at all one summer but the boy wants to hit the college game running playing with and against the best competition available.
In the long run better bang for the buck spending it while they are older rather than spending the big money freshman year and on when who knows how the development will go. (caveat, they have to be sound in their mechanics and fundamentals at a young age or you might as well pay for special training)

I could give thousands of examples of where spending money (travel team, showcase, etc) has helped the player. I could give even more examples where spending a lot of money did not help the player. I'm speaking in regards to helping the player move up to the next level. You can't always place a monetary number on this stuff.

I don’t know about other stuff, but I do know that Manny Upton paid the same as everyone else to attend our stuff. So did Eddie Kazmir, Larry Young, Wally Lubanski, Cecil Fielder, Anthony Milledge, Porcello, Billingsley, Heyward, etc. Not one of those people even asked for a discounted price.

I know this is pretty amazing and doesn’t really mean much, but from an investment standpoint. Manny and Yvonne Upton spent approximately $20,000 investing in their son’s education (as the article reads)

For that $20,000 investment, their son’s BJ and Justin signed for a combined 10.7 Million Dollars. And that’s just the signing bonus, the big money is yet to come.

Not sure about their education, but that’s what I call a pretty good return on investment.

I’m sure some will say that it would have happened anyway. However, the Upton’s became so well known because they did do all these things. Their talent was first round with or without the showcasing stuff. But the showcasing stuff is what created the extra value and it answered any questions a scouting department might have had. It created a market value for them. So maybe they still would have been worth a small fortune without the exposure, but they were worth a big fortune with it. And Manny Upton would be the first to tell someone that.

One top player we really helped was Carl Crawford because he just didn’t have any money at all and he had to have help. Plus that he was not that well known as a baseball player outside the Houston area. He went from having nothing in 1999 to signing for well over a million. He’s now a multi millionaire Major League All Star. We don't feel sorry for Carl anymore.

There are those who are so talented that they don’t need exposure, but the exposure has helped increase their value greatly.

There are those that pay for exposure and the exposure can’t help them, it just exposes them.

It’s all based on talent. It’s amazing how much we can do to help kids who have a lot of talent. Yet we can do very little for the kids who don’t have talent.

If people are going to spend money and call it a learning experience or entertainment or enjoyment, or any number of things, that’s their business. If they are spending the money as an investment in their son’s baseball future… They better understand that it is based on talent. The event does not get a player drafted or a scholarship. The players talent does that, but the more that talent is recognized the more options that become available.

There is great exposure! And there is indecent exposure! They don’t get the same results.

There is another aspect to all this that many overlook and that is the competition for admission to college with or without athletics

If a athlete has a coach in his corner, all things considered equal (GPA/SAT) the athlete may have the edge because of his exposure and being seen by a coach.

It is not always about scholarships but about gaining admission to the school of choice and this is quite important to many

One year's cost for our son (an '08):

Summer travel team fee: $1550
Fall travel team fee: $600
Plus all travel expenses
We were fortunate to have vacation time and a company car with free gas, so we drove everywhere (all over Texas, Louisiana, and Missouri). Other families were not so fortunate and had to either pay for their gas or fly and rent a car. We also stayed with friends or relatives out of town when possible.

Add on top of that equipment and clothing (approx. $700), lessons ($600), a Perfect Game Showcase ($600 plus hotel and meals), and a couple of college showcases ($300 plus hotel and meals). Total: $4,350 plus travel expenses.

We benefitted from just about every expenditure. Two colleges became interested in son through his play on travel team, one college through their own showcase. Private batting lessons resulted in much improved hitting this summer and son's Perfect Game rating gave him "legitimacy" and increased our son's name recognition among scouts. Our son's travel coach commented to us, "Name recognition is half the battle. When they know who you are, they watch you play and you are always in the back of their minds."

Very true , TR.

Yale only accepts a thousand a year from all around the world, if baseball is the edge, all the better.

I heard a story that the kid from around here asked the pro scouts what they could offer him that would disuade him from going to Yale. They drafted the number two pitcher from his high school instead.

The Prospects have now helped two kids get the Yale admission.

quote:

Originally posted by Infield08:
One year's cost for our son (an '08):

Summer travel team fee: $1550
Fall travel team fee: $600
Plus all travel expenses
We were fortunate to have vacation time and a company car with free gas, so we drove everywhere (all over Texas, Louisiana, and Missouri). Other families were not so fortunate and had to either pay for their gas or fly and rent a car. We also stayed with friends or relatives out of town when possible.

Add on top of that equipment and clothing (approx. $700), lessons ($600), a Perfect Game Showcase ($600 plus hotel and meals), and a couple of college showcases ($300 plus hotel and meals). Total: $4,350 plus travel expenses.

We benefitted from just about every expenditure. Two colleges became interested in son through his play on travel team, one college through their own camp. Private batting lessons resulted in much improved hitting this summer and son's Perfect Game rating gave him "legitimacy" and increased our son's name recognition among scouts. Our son's travel coach commented to us, "Name recognition is half the battle. When they know who you are, they watch you play and you are always in the back of their minds."

If you had to fly to every event and pay hotel cost for every event, I would think it would be well over $7,000, if your son and yourself were to go to the events.

The major cost in traveling around the country is not the team fee, but the travel (if you have to fly) and hotel cost!!!

Luvthisgame, this is a very good topic. Lots of good responses. Re-read TPM’s first post in this thread! She nailed it. While some spend lots and don’t like to talk about it, others don’t have a lot to spend and MUST talk about it. It is a known fact that a lot of money changes hands in the recruiting game. (Much more than needs to in my opinion) There are those that pay a great deal while others pay much less for virtually the same thing. Those that spend a great deal of money will justify their spending. That’s neither here nor there --- it’s their money and everyone justifies their spending. Your goal is to determine how much money YOU have to spend to get the desired results. First off let’s ignore buying exposure as we have come to accept as the norm. A very big part of exposure is actually a by product of what your son would do anyway. He’s going to play baseball and normally he’s going to play for a team that is as talented as he is. You will pay team fees so he can play and you will pay money to go watch your son play. You do this because that is what you WANT to do! You are being a parent and enjoying the moment. The most money I spent on my son’s baseball was when he was 13 and I was simply spending money on “our family’s hobby”. This had nothing to do with his baseball future or exposure or what I "HAD" to do. Many parents spend no additional money on exposure and every thing turns out fine. However most of those people aren’t consumed by their son’s baseball and don’t have the time (or take the time) to post on the HSBBW.

I think the most important thing you can do is constantly evaluate your son’s talent and respect the opinions of baseball people that see him. Ask question of these respected baseball people and follow their advice. Don’t rely on one person’s opinion. I can name many people that helped my son along the way. His summer coaches and instructors Tim Dulin, Joe Platt, and Charlie Lea were probably the major influences in promoting him to college coaches and pro scouts. As the ball rolls it gathers momentum and demands attention. However I think that ball is driven by talent --- not by money.
Fungo
PS: All players need some exposure: How much and at what price will always be a hot topic for discussion. The most common approach to exposure seems to be spend more and worry less.

My son joined a summer travel team for 2500 going into his senior summer. I just posted this recently, it was a good investment. We didn't follow him, only went to local games. I'll bet a large portion of money parents spend are following their players when they are in very capable hands of the coaches who run the teams. It also was a great experience for him to be away from us for weeks at a time, and most likely why he was able to make the adjustment of going to school far from home.

I agree with TR, baseball will give you the edge.

But breaking the bank might not. The Upton's spending only 20K on their son's future "education" was a great investment on their return. But they had incredibly talented sons, that's what got back the investment, this is an unusual situation.

And why are players traveling all over the country? Making a plan and deciding what area you want to target on is very important in your plan. We concentrated on FL, GA and SC.

quote:

We didn't follow him, only went to local games. I'll bet a large portion of money parents spend are following their players when they are in very capable hands of the coaches who run the teams.

Our son's select team requires one parent to accompany each player on all overnight trips.

quote:

Originally posted by Infield08:

quote:

We didn't follow him, only went to local games. I'll bet a large portion of money parents spend are following their players when they are in very capable hands of the coaches who run the teams.

Our son's select team requires one parent to accompany each player on all overnight trips.

Most coaches my son played for didn't want parents around. They had enough staff to be able to monitor the boys, if you caused any trouble, you went home, period.

We invite the parents to be with us so they can see what is happening as well as enjoy some great baseball----we like to create a baseball family

My daughter did it the easy way. (4.63 gpa) Received a full tuition scholarship to UC school in California. No travel, no long weekends at the ballpark. But I'm afraid I won't be as lucky with junior. But I have enjoyed every minute watching him play baseball and every dollar spent keeping him busy and not getting into trouble has been worth it.

quote:

Originally posted by luvthisgame:
I did include meals, travel, tournament costs, showcase cost, Team cost, private lesson costs, in NJ we have to pay to workout from nov. to mar. this cost $$$ too.

sorry TPM we can not just go outside, like you all down south.

I don't live that far from you. We were inside Sunday nights from January through March for $15 a kid. That adds about $200 more to the cost I forgot about, but my son is still under 2K for nine months of baseball and seventeen tournaments (including gas).

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:


I don’t know about other stuff, but I do know that Manny Upton paid the same as everyone else to attend our stuff. So did Eddie Kazmir, Larry Young, Wally Lubanski, Cecil Fielder, Anthony Milledge, Porcello, Billingsley, Heyward, etc. Not one of those people even asked for a discounted price.

I chuckled because I'm wondering how many people on this board recognize the name Lubanski. I can't tell you how many parents in our area are blowing tons of money to have their kids do the same things Chris did and expecting a similar result, except there's one problem. Their kids don't have anywhere near the talent of Chris.

By the way Chris is struggling a little in AAA. But I'll bet he works through it. He's done well at every other level.

quote:

Originally posted by TG:

I don't live that far from you we were inside Sunday nights from January through March for $15 a kid. That adds about $200 more to the cost I forgot about but my son is still under 2K for nine months of baseball and seventeen tournaments (including gas).

I would say this might be a necessary expense. During summer intense heat and summer rain our kids would take to the indoors for batting practice.

Many of us on the board know the name Lubanski very well.

I guess mine will have to settle for something less expensive,,,, how about a medical degree?

Seriously, : insert fainting smilie here :

With a few notable exceptions, what is spent on travel baseball would have a terrible rate of return if you looked upon it as an "investment".

Most people call this an investment because they are not willing to face up to what they are really doing. The reality is, the parents are making the travel baseball their hobby. This raises the dangers of "helicopter parents", and questions of whether the apron strings should be cut instead -- questions most parents don't want to answer, not even to themselves.

But for myself, I'll admit it: Traveling with my son to these baseball events the past few years has been more fun than anything else I have done or could have done with my money. Frankly I am getting wistful lately, when I realize that for us this wonderful time is drawing to a close. I wish it could go on forever, but my wife refuses to try for another son at our age!

Some folks would rather play golf, I guess. (Tally up what you spend on THAT, including country club memberships, etc.!) Or maybe you'd rather take a cruise, or drive a BMW. The fact is, we are living in an era when Americans have more "fun money" to spend than ever before, and we're willing to spend it. What the heck, you can't take it with you!

I'm with Midlo. It's expensive, but it's fun. My hobby when growing up was showing horses. Now *that* is expensive!

Because of baseball I got to enjoy time with my son,it was worth every penny.

The hours spent doing this do not have a money value on them---look at the time you get with your son---look at the friends you make---look at fun you have watching some great baseball

I know it is fun to see players in the "bigs" now whom he played with or against

There were worse things I could have done with the money

Believe it or not, all the costs related to travel ball and recruiting can yield a huge return on investment if it results in a college baseball scholarship -- but I'm not referring to the scholarship amount or the ability to play college ball. I'm referring to academic success, of all things. Many parents have kids who are very self-motivated in the classroom, but some of us have boys who would much prefer to spend their time in the great outdoors than sit and do book work. For those types of kids, I believe their academic work in college will very likely be superior because of all the academic accountability in place for student-athletes -- mandatory study halls, tutoring, penalties for skipping classes, minimum GPA to play, etc. My son, for one, is a student who will do as much or as little as is expected of him. I am hopeful he will have the "opportunity" to have an authority figure breathing down his neck for the next 4 years. And if he succeeds in the classroom, that alone will be worth our huge "investment!"

Precisely, nj; extra time with our sons, enjoying a shared love, with the bonus that he plays the game well.

The money you spend on your son's baseball is a personal decision, although it's wise to check in here to make more informed decisions. Looking at it as an 'investment' can imply that you're expecting a return over and above the shared baseball experience. That's the point at which parents need to be realistic about their son's talent.

It's very much a current idea that if you throw enough money at something it will turn out the way you want.

It is pretty simple for me:

Dollars spent taking my son to Georgia, San Diego, L.A., and various other points = I really don't want to know

Value of spending the better part of 6 weeks * 24 hours a day with my son through the summer between his Junior and Senior year watching him play the game he loves = Priceless

This summer was not about some return on investment - it was about this being the game we love - and giving my son a chance to play to his potential.

08

Great (and often overlooked) point, infield!

It is truly a decision that each family needs to make, but looking it as an investment it totally wrong.

Spending time with your son, having him learn to balance the class room and sports, getting to compete with and against the best competition in the state and the country, learning to expect more of yourself to be the best are some of the benefits that you can not put a price on.

Guess what, if you are lucky enough to have your son or daughter play in college or the pros, many families continue to spend a lot of money following their players across the country or travel to their far off school to watch games and enjoy their time with their sons or daughters.

I read the other day were Todd Marinovich was arrested again for drugs. He was at a beach skateboarding in a restricted area with a guitar. He ran and in his guitar case was methamphetamine.
I see so many kids taking lessons and committed to baseball 365 days a year, that I worry that the money is being spent to satisfy the parents not for the kids. I agree with all the posts above, I love the time I get to spend and have spent with my boys. If we weren't traveling to a baseball event we would be fishing or hunting or doing something together it is all a matter of perspective. In another thread there is talk about kids playing kick the can and hide and seek. There has to be a balance between playing baseball and being a kid. Marinovich is a kid who seems to still be searching for that balance. I will pray for him and also pray that his sad story is a lesson to any other parent who is consumed by athletic success.

My best memories from travel softball are the rides to and from the tournaments with my daughter. I miss them. I'll bet I was a lot closer to my teenage daughter than a lot of dads due to the talks we had on those rides.

Now I'm making the same drives with my teenage son. The same thing is happening again. We have talks teens and dads normally wouldn't take the time to have at home.

I don't believe a price can be attached to this kind of connection.