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Looks like Giants' star catcher Buster Posey will miss significant playing time- broken ankle and, possibly, knee damage- after being run over at home by the Marlins' Scott Cousins.

CSN reports catcher possibly out for season

I hate these plays at the plate. I think they're probably the dumbest thing permitted in baseball (along with a manager stopping the game and entering field of play to argue with an umpire). Collisions between baserunners and catchers should be eliminated at all levels of the game.

So, that's my opinion. And, I'm not some s****r wimp. I played football, hockey and lacrosse. I appreciate a clean hard hit as much as anyone else. I just don't like them in baseball.
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We aren't going to make catching a sissified position now are we? Just because Posey is the "franchise" player, we're not going to go the way of the NFL quarterback, please. The dumbest thing permitted in baseball up until yesterday was allowing Posey to remain a catcher when he was so valuable an asset at the plate. Posey was never built to take the abuse of a major league season behind the plate. Don't block the plate if you don't want your bell rung. It's a choice. He made the wrong one. He's not defenseless....he can stay out of the way. Or he can take his medicine.
"Posey's agent, Jeff Berry, said he was planning on calling Joe Torre, the new leader of on-field operations, in the hopes of changing the rules that allow runners to barrel into catchers.

"You leave players way too vulnerable," Berry said. "I can tell you Major League Baseball is less than it was before [Posey's injury]. It's stupid. I don't know if this ends up leading to a rule change, but it should. The guy [at the plate] is too exposed.

"If you go helmet to helmet in the NFL, it's a $100,000 fine, but in baseball, you have a situation in which runners are [slamming into] fielders. It's brutal. It's borderline shocking. It just stinks for baseball. I'm going to call Major League Baseball and put this on the radar. Because it's just wrong."
quote:
Originally posted by PA Dino:
Posey was never built to take the abuse of a major league season behind the plate.


What do you propose that ML catchers be "built" like so that they can take a hit like the one delivered by Cousins last night? I disagree that he wasn't built to take the abuse. His last 5 years have been focused on building his body to be a MLB catcher, he was in fantastic shape for the position demands.
Last edited by Backstop-17
quote:
Originally posted by PA Dino:
We aren't going to make catching a sissified position now are we? Just because Posey is the "franchise" player, we're not going to go the way of the NFL quarterback, please. The dumbest thing permitted in baseball up until yesterday was allowing Posey to remain a catcher when he was so valuable an asset at the plate. Posey was never built to take the abuse of a major league season behind the plate. Don't block the plate if you don't want your bell rung. It's a choice. He made the wrong one. He's not defenseless....he can stay out of the way. Or he can take his medicine.


Look at this photo
how much further should he have been out of the way in your opinion?

plate open
Last edited by NoReplay
quote:
Originally posted by PA Dino:
Don't block the plate if you don't want your bell rung. It's a choice. He made the wrong one. He's not defenseless....he can stay out of the way. Or he can take his medicine.


Posey was not blocking the plate. He was in front of the plate to the fair side or the foul line. The runner had the line and the foul side all to himself. Posey was not blocking access to the plate.
Last edited by Jimmy03
I am prepared to defend my comments. I might lose in the end but the debate should be spirited.

Buster Olney Blog, ESPN
On the incident:

quote:
But that is the least of the Giants' worries, in the aftermath of the devastating leg injury that Posey suffered while blocking home plate in the 12th inning Thursday night.


quote:
What follows is not meant to be a criticism of Posey or Scott Cousins: In the current world of assessing value, the act of blocking home plate is simply not worth the potential cost. Not even close.


Olney apparently has seen the incident and describes Posey's actions as "blocking" home plate. What else would you expect Posey to do? Go for a hotdog? Of course he set up in front of the plate waiting for the arrival of the ball and then expecting Cousins to be sliding toward the back of the plate moves to block the plate and deny the run. Unfortunately, Cousins had other plans.
ANTONIO GONZALEZ, AP SPORTS WRITER

On the incident:
quote:
The deciding play came when Emilio Bonifacio hit a shallow fly ball to right-center off Guillermo Mota (2-1) for the second out. Cousins tagged from third base on the sacrifice fly, beating the throw from Schierholtz and lowering his shoulder to slam into Posey for a clean - albeit cringing - hit on the reigning NL Rookie of the Year.


A clean hit.......Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just quoting people who should know.

Don't get me wrong, I do feel sympathy, make that empathy for Posey. That could have very well been a hit that costs him untold millions in future salary once he becomes a free agent.
quote:
Originally posted by PA Dino:
We aren't going to make catching a sissified position now are we? Just because Posey is the "franchise" player, we're not going to go the way of the NFL quarterback, please. The dumbest thing permitted in baseball up until yesterday was allowing Posey to remain a catcher when he was so valuable an asset at the plate. Posey was never built to take the abuse of a major league season behind the plate. Don't block the plate if you don't want your bell rung. It's a choice. He made the wrong one. He's not defenseless....he can stay out of the way. Or he can take his medicine.


This is a great post Dino! That is the exact reason Washington switched Bryce Harper from catcher.
quote:
Originally posted by PA Dino:
I am prepared to defend my comments. I might lose in the end but the debate should be spirited.

Buster Olney Blog, ESPN
On the incident:

quote:
But that is the least of the Giants' worries, in the aftermath of the devastating leg injury that Posey suffered while blocking home plate in the 12th inning Thursday night.


quote:
What follows is not meant to be a criticism of Posey or Scott Cousins: In the current world of assessing value, the act of blocking home plate is simply not worth the potential cost. Not even close.


Olney apparently has seen the incident and describes Posey's actions as "blocking" home plate. What else would you expect Posey to do? Go for a hotdog? Of course he set up in front of the plate waiting for the arrival of the ball and then expecting Cousins to be sliding toward the back of the plate moves to block the plate and deny the run. Unfortunately, Cousins had other plans.


Why look to the words of others when both live action video as well as stills are available to review with your own eyes? Those who speak on it are not always very reliable frankly; Cousins himself reported he decided to attempt to jar the ball lose only after seeing Posey secure the ball; of course this is bs as posey never secured the ball, if he slides into the clearly open plate he would have been safe and posey's career not at risk. None so blind etc.....
Last edited by NoReplay
Don't normally get into the baseball "shoulds and should nots", but here goes. Points I contend...he was not blocking the plate (no matter what some pundits may say in illustrating their argument..seemed clear to me by photos and videos). There was plenty of access to the plate...he just probably would have been out (had the ball been caught).

I also contend IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER in this particular instance, because what was done is what is/has been ALLOWED. Runners have been allowed to go slightly out of the running path to try and "free the ball". Might not be the rule, but it has been allowed. This is why I would not be faulting the runner. He did a normal baseball play, because it is allowed. I think it is unneccessary, but it is allowed. If he was blocking the plate, the same thing would have happened.

Let's say he HAS THE BALL and is waiting...runner is ALLOWED to do whatever he wants in "accessing" the plate. This does not happen anywhere else on the field. An ejection would occur if it happened at second base. If ss was waiting at 2b with a stolen base attempt tag..slightly to the side of the bag (or even over the bag), an ejection would occur if the runner blasted into him to "access" the bag. Why is it different here? (Because it is ALLOWED.) Please do not use the "catcher has protection" argument..there is no protection for these types of collisions (head, neck, arms, wrists, ankles).

I say all this to say that I do believe THERE IS PLENTY OF ROOM FOR DISCUSSION about what is allowed at the plate...especially for an all-out, head-lowering trucking to occur.
Thank you, and you are welcome. Smile
First it was ran over not runned over. Smile

This is terrible for anyone.

I have watched Posey many times he's a smart guy, he was not directly blocking the plate. It looks like a dirty hit to me. Posey never even caught the ball.

What is allowed isn't always what most do.



JMO.
Last edited by TPM
quote:
Originally posted by DaddyBo:
Don't normally get into the baseball "shoulds and should nots", but here goes. Points I contend...he was not blocking the plate (no matter what some pundits may say in illustrating their argument..seemed clear to me by photos and videos). There was plenty of access to the plate...he just probably would have been out (had the ball been caught).

I also contend IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER in this particular instance, because what was done is what is/has been ALLOWED. Runners have been allowed to go slightly out of the running path to try and "free the ball". Might not be the rule, but it has been allowed. This is why I would not be faulting the runner. He did a normal baseball play, because it is allowed. I think it is unneccessary, but it is allowed. If he was blocking the plate, the same thing would have happened.

Let's say he HAS THE BALL and is waiting...runner is ALLOWED to do whatever he wants in "accessing" the plate. This does not happen anywhere else on the field. An ejection would occur if it happened at second base. If ss was waiting at 2b with a stolen base attempt tag..slightly to the side of the bag (or even over the bag), an ejection would occur if the runner blasted into him to "access" the bag. Why is it different here? (Because it is ALLOWED.) Please do not use the "catcher has protection" argument..there is no protection for these types of collisions (head, neck, arms, wrists, ankles).

I say all this to say that I do believe THERE IS PLENTY OF ROOM FOR DISCUSSION about what is allowed at the plate...especially for an all-out, head-lowering trucking to occur.
Thank you, and you are welcome. Smile

Nice analysis.

Running into the catcher is being taught at all levels of baseball where it is allowed. I've seen my son do it and I don't like it one bit but I know he is doing as instructed.

I am obviously a Cleveland Indians fan and I believe a great career was cut short by Pete Rose. I also don't believe Rose did anything technically "wrong" although what was controversial about that play was that it occurred in an "exhibition" game.

This foolishness needs to stop and I appreciate PaDino's arguments on the subject.

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