California Wild Fires

Thanks for the thread Homerun. This is starting to look like a catastrophe of epic proportions. Thoughts and prayers to all the SoCals affected by these fires. Send rain soon.

quote:

Originally posted by spizzlepop:
This is starting to look like a catastrophe of epic proportions.

Our hearts are filled with deep sadness for the tremendous loss in that beautiful and magical area. I can't even imagine it. Hopefully the winds that are driving the fires will die down soon...they are forecasting it for tomorrow.

God bless those who are directly affected by this horrific firestorm.
Sympathies for those who have perished.
God's strength for those who are fighting them.
God's peace and healing for those who need it.

And prayers for all.

.

I would never make "light" of what's going on in our home state... such as tonight. But HR04, do we really have to give up our prairies?

As long as I'm being totaly non PC this evening, anyone notice how there is absolutely no comparison on the national news, on how the problem solving and people are "handling the national calamity"... opposed to a town at the base of the Mississippi when a similar catastrophe hit?

Sure seems there is a pouring out of humanity to those in loss...

cadDAD

I guess the prairies are also going up in smoke.

Thanks!

A few political folks were trying to spin the difference between NO and SD vs just being happy we learned from the past.

quote:

Originally posted by AcademyDad:
.

I would never make "light" of what's going on in our home state... such as tonight. But HR04, do we really have to give up our prairies?

As long as I'm being totaly non PC this evening, anyone notice how there is absolutely no comparison on the national news, on how the problem solving and people are "handling the national calamity"... opposed to a town at the base of the Mississippi when a similar catastrophe hit?
cadDAD

Where's the similarity cadDAD?

Wow, a half million people now needing to evacuate! My thoughts and prayers are with everyone in that area.

Julie

I keep having visions of Pompeii.

I just pray the fires do not continue to sweep to the coast. Where will all those poor souls go?

My brother lives in north San Diego county, off I-15 where the Witch fire is raging. He was evacuated. He has a large spread, house, barn, poolhouse on about 13 acres. His neighbor told him tonight that his barn and poolhouse were gone, but the house was still standing.

He has not been able to confirm anything, of course.

We are hoping for the best. I just attended his daughter's wedding on that property last month.

Academy Dad,
Doesn't matter where natural disasters occur, it's heart breaking.

I have been watching the news all day, there have been comparisons, good and bad. I hope that a big lesson was learned from Katrina, that's most likely been the difference between life and death, not personal loss.

This is another example of humankind having to strap on the seatbelt and hang on for dear life as Mother Nature goes joyriding!

I am grateful that the authorities in Southern California have handled this calamity so well. They're well experienced in dodging and absorbing all of the punches that Mother Nature throws at them. And the residents pretty much know the routine as well.

My hat is off to all of the folks in that region...they're handling things remarkably well.

The forecast is for these ferocious and devastating winds to diminish over the next day or so...this will make all the difference in the world on getting an upper hand on these fires.

My brother had to evacuate his home today as well. I haven't talked to him since this afternoon. Wonder where they will all go.

It seems that North LA - the Ranch Fire, Magic Fire, Buckweed, and other fires near Santa Clarita and Valencia are claming down. Our daughter, who had not been able to return home since Sunday night, called to say that the roads are reopened and she is on her way home. She has been told that the house she lives in was not burned, even though it was within the perimeter of the Ranch Fire!!!

Hope things start calming down everywhere.

Thank you a million times to all the firefighters and other responders who are working day and night to knock these fires down.

Thanks to everyone here for being such a wonderful, supportive community.

That's good news P&CMom...what a relief! It appears that perhaps all of our prairies were answered!

Got this response from a friend who flew in yesterday...with his house being one of the ones in the neighborhood still standing:

quote:

But the TV is not doing it justice... flying into SD was like going into h e l l.... There are literally a 100 miles of fires on the East county and Smoke that make thunderheads look like nothing.... there were dozens of smoke stacks that made you think there were dozens of volcanoes all erupting... I've never seen anything to compare but a bad movie depicting the surface of Venus.....

.
JT...

He/She's got that exactly right....can't do it justice on film...a version of another world..

..spent a college summer/fall with CDF (California Department of Forestry) on the front lines. It was one of those years we have out here when it seems the whole state is buring down. They'd take us off one one fire and shuffle us on to another...all over the state...24 hours a day for a couple months. Spent precious little time at home. A couple decades later it's all still amazingly vivid.

...Until you have been face to face with such things: heat so intense you can feel from a quarter mile away, flames twice as high as trees, the incredibly rapid advance of wind driven flames over impossible terrain, The deafening roar that the fire makes when it advances at that pace, the steepness of the terrain...working hard on the fireline in the middle of the night sweating like crazy inside your protective gear in the heat, can't breath, can't see...the infinite dangers involved, flames everywhere, falling rocks, falling trees, spotfires, smoke and ash, heat, wind, darkness...your safety partially in the hands of your superiors. It's really hard for most of us to truly understand just what environment the firefighters and the homeowners are facing, and how small and insignificant you can become in an instant in the face of such things.

Someone asked me what I would take if I were asked to leave...easy...My life...and gladly so. Things can go bad VERY quickly. They did for us, frequently. Often just happy to be breathing fresh air.

Thoughts, prayers to all...Thanks to those on the front lines.

44
.

It gets in your blood doesn't it 44?

.
Boy, you got that right Woody!

At the same time...the friendships, the sense of united purpose, the sense of hard work well done, the incredible and amazing things you see and do...make it all something special.

No one who has done it ever forgets. All have stories to tell...

Been there?

44
.

Yup. Been there, but not in Illinois.

I was never in those flashy, dangerous explosive conditions that are so typical of the California wildfires. My experiences were more in heavy timber and seldom involved structures.

I spent a couple of summers in the Medford/Grants Pass area along with three years over in Klamath Falls. Those areas had conditions somewhat similar to the conditions you encountered in California. The rest of my time with the Oregon State Forestry Department was spent in the wet Northwest corner of the state.

My very first job out of college was supervising 42 firefighters who were divided into three crews. I had never supervised anyone in my life previous to that. Can you imagine me as your boss...in those conditions? Remarkably it all worked out...Jackson and Josephine Counties were not consumed by fire during that drought year!

Oh the memories! One memory in particular stands out. We had a crew leader (married with three small children) who actually started a fire which nearly wiped out his boyhood hometown...where his father was working as the Fire Control Officer for the U.S.F.S. at the Ranger District office.

Although we had plenty of firefighters on this blaze this crew leader chose to work shoulder to shoulder with me throughout the hot afternoon and well into the next morning trying to get a handle on this fire. It was on a steep canyon face (nearly a cliff) and was very dangerous. Our main concern was saving the town at the top of the steep slope, but if it had jumped the Rogue River we would have had a major problem...no access roads for miles...and heavy timber. It didn't jump thank goodness.

He requested that his foreman take the crew back to HQ after we were released at two or three in the morning. He asked to ride along with me. The 40 mile drive along the Rogue River Highway back to town that night was very strange. I was barely awake and this guy was pouring out his soul to me. Why?

A few days later he confessed to the investigators that he had started the fire. He was convicted and sent to the Oregon State Penitentiary.

It turns out that he had a record involving arson, but we were not able to have access to that information when he was hired. Does that make sense?

Yes...memories!

** Has anyone heard from "Consultant" lately? He lives somewhere in California.

This is one of the hsbbweb's VIP's, Bob Williams, founder of the historical "Area Code Games" that attracted the top players from around the world for many years.

Bob, we hope you and your family are okay and getting through this very tragic time in California as the world sends prayers and well wishes to all the folks affected by the horrific fires.

MWR-VA;

Thank you.

My home for the past 32 years is north of San Francisco in Sonoma County.

However my close friend, Mike Wallace from Michigan State U. has described his adventures from Escondido.

Several of our families who are traveling to Australia in December live in San Diego county.

We hope for their safety.
How is your young man?

"It seems like yesterday he was traveling to Australia with our teams".

Bob

I heard a news report that stated that the police began to ask the people at Qualcomm stadium their addresses to check their authenticity and miraculously the population at the stadium went down to less than a thousand. Has anyone else heard this report?

I heard the reason the crowd thinned out was because they ran out of Nachos.

a speedy recovery to all our California friends


gw4s, just wondering why they don't thin the fuel & make breaks prior to a fire in prone areas?

quote:

Originally posted by deldad:
I heard a news report that stated that the police began to ask the people at Qualcomm stadium their addresses to check their authenticity and miraculously the population at the stadium went down to less than a thousand. Has anyone else heard this report?

Yes and Fox news is reporting that AQC (Al Qaeda in California) is responsible for setting the fires.

That report you heard on Fox News may not be that far-fetched spizzle.

During WWII the Japanese launched balloons carrying incendiary devices that were designed to start forest fires in the Pacific Northwest. The purpose of this type of attack was to divert manpower from the war effort and to destroy resources. Several of these balloons did touch down and the devices ignited...but they landed well before fire season in that part of the country and the fires never amounted to much.

In the case of the recent fires in California the conditions were absolutely prime for catastrophic fires to occur. These not uncommon intense, nearly bone-dry Santa Ana winds coupled with much rain and resulting large volume of plant growth last year all on top of a drought this year created a perfect storm effect for these fires.

Imagine these same conditions without the wind. The firefighters would have been chasing a dozen or so fires which would have all been contained at much, much smaller acreages...the fires would have hardly raised an eyebrow with the locals.

But factor in that wind and you have a totally different situation. Once a fire got started with that wind behind it and plenty of natural drier than normal fuel and man-made fuel as well ahead of it then there is absolutely nothing the firefigters could do other than try to steer these fires one way or another...and even that is near impossible with the strength of the Santa Ana winds. When the wind dies down they will be able to pounce on the fires and get some positive results.

Knowing that these conditions occur with some regularity throughout this region if some person or group wanted to cause trouble with fire all they have to do is sit back and be patient...their opportunity will come.

Arsonists, domestic or foreign, are difficult to thwart. Being prepared, informed, and vigilant is the best defense.

.
AP Reports...

quote:

In the middle of the arc of fire, the Santiago Fire in Orange County had burned nearly 20,000 acres and destroyed nine homes. Only 50 percent contained, it is a suspected arson fire.

Agents from the FBI and the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives were sent to help investigate. Authorities said a smaller, more recent fire in Riverside County also is linked to arson.

Police shot and killed a man who fled Tuesday night when officers approached to see if he might be trying to set a fire in San Bernardino. The man, whose name was not released, had led police on a chase then backed his car into a police cruiser, police said.

44
.

My brother said the fire fighters are amazing. The fire was coming down a mountain at a rapid pace into his neighborhood. They contained it just as it reached the line of the first back yard. He said they saved proabably 20 or so houses. He is a former Navy man and has seen a lot and not just any one impresses him. He was overwhelmed by their ability, effort and courage.

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:
a speedy recovery to all our California friends


gw4s, just wondering why they don't thin the fuel & make breaks prior to a fire in prone areas?

Good questions Bee>.

The whole region is fire prone. Some areas are more likely to have fires start than others. Since most of the fires in this region are human caused then it stands to reason that most fires will occur where the people are.

Wherever the wildland and the city meet is highly prone to fires getting started. And because of extensive development this wildland/urban interface is extensive in this region. Couple that with all of the recreational areas as well and then you can imagine all of the problem fire prone areas that authorities must concern themselves with.

I do believe that establishing firebreaks (which also serve as access for firefighters) is a routine practice in Southern California. Compared to other fire prevention measures this tactic is relatively inexpensive.

The problem is that a 12' or 15' wide fire break is absolutely worthless in the face of a 50 mph wind driven raging inferno. These firebreaks are essential for helping control fires when the weather is normal, but given these recent extreme conditions the firebreaks were not much of a factor in efforts to control these fires.

Imagine a run-of-the-mill house fire in the midst of any of those very densely constructed subdivisions. If the flames had become exposed to the wind then whole neighborhoods could have possibly been lost and the fire from the structures could have spread to the wildlands! My point is that fuel is fuel...the fire doesn't care who put it out there to burn...it just wants to be fed. The man-made fuel just happens to be a whole lot more accessible than the natural kind...it's also a whole lot more valuable!

Thinning out, or eliminating, the brush is a good idea around your home...no question. But trying to do the same over literally hundreds of thousands if not millions of acres on steep, rugged terrain is not feasible...just from an economic standpoint. This process is very labor intensive and costly. This tactic would only be helpful over the short term because the areas thinned would quickly grow back...possibly even more densely than before. And even in the short term the areas cleared would soon become covered with grass and weeds that, under drought conditions, would provide fuel for very fast moving fires...weeds and grass become tinder dry very, very quickly...brush takes awhile longer to dry out. The brush that would be cut, if left on site, would become a fire hazard itself.

Another tactic that could be used, and one that is far more reasonable cost wise, is prescribed burning...authorities designating and coming into an area under somewhat controlled conditions and setting it on fire with the purpose of reducing the fuel load. It would indeed reduce the fuel load considerably. But there are numerous problems with this tactic as well.

Prescribed burns must be conducted at a time when the fuel will ignite and burn properly. These conditions would possibly also allow for the fire to escape and create harm outside of the prescribed area. It happens!

Burning creates lots and lots of smoke...as you've seen over the last few days from the satellite photos of Southern California. Obviously the authorities would manage the smoke such that it is not nearly as bad as what these wildfires are producing, but the fact remains that there still would be plenty of smoke...and plenty of health concerns...and plenty of complaints.

The areas that received a prescribed burn would be prone to damaging mudslides the next winter or when rains occur. This would then be followed by grasses and weeds growing on the site, and eventually new brush following that. The cycle repeats itself. Where you have fuel you have the potential for fire.

There is no permanent solution to the problem. The threat and occurrence of catastrophic fires is not unlike the threat and occurrence of an earthquake in that region...both come with the territory.

The best defense is to be prepared and use common sense. Southern Californians were not surprised when the winds inevitably started to howl the fires inevitably started to burn without mercy.

It's just that Mother Nature sometimes makes getting along with her difficult at times!

spizzle, Fox was reporting "as recent" a four year old memo that didn't mention California.

Fox

How many of the HSBBW have brothers down there? I have one in Poway, RK has one, HitaHomer..

I hope the flames stya low, and those brave firefighters are able to get a lid on it soon!

I scanned that report Orlando...it seems that the judge was right...there is no evidence to support the claim that Al Qaeda or any of their agents started any fires in California.

The fact remains that at least one fire appears to have been started by an arsonist...and perhaps attempts to start others may have occurred.

It doesn't really matter who started them...the results are the same...chaos, fear, damage, and lots and lots of labor and money spent on controlling them.

I'm at the base of the Santiago Canyon fire in Orange County. Thank you for all your well wishes..and yes...your prairies too!

I have been a long time reader and visitor to this amazing website and message board and I thought I'd chime in today.

I just sent my son and hubby off to Jupiter, FL for the WWBA/Perfect Game tournament and they are glad to be breathing some clean air!

The fires have been devastating and widespread. We are now living under a very thick cloud of smoke and ash. It's extremely hard to breathe and all area schools are closed. However, the firefighters are doing an amazing job and the communities are pulling together to help out those in need.

And in our case, Mother Nature had nothing to do with this fire. The only thing "she" is guilty of is the windy conditions that created the conditions for this arsonist.

Thanks again for your thoughts!

thanks for the reply woody

quote:

The fact remains that at least one fire appears to have been started by an arsonist...and perhaps attempts to start others may have occurred.

if not mistaken, they caught one & shot one a few days ago, but details on their identities seem to be "top secret"

Welcome to the HSBBW stephtulla...I only wish we had a feature on this site that could pump some fresh air into your place.

My comments on Mother Nature were in regards to the sequence of events that have contributed to the enormity and intensity of these fires. Mother Nature essentially put all of these factors into place...and then unleashed these hellacious winds!

Fires were going to get started regardless of the weather. Under normal weather conditions the fires would barely be a news item...the winds changed all of that!


And Bee>...you're welcome. The arsonist(s) identities will soon be revealed I'm sure.

SDBB sent me some photos...his back yard got torched a little...the house across the street is gone...and his house is still standing in one piece. It is amazing how random it got sometimes.

I feel badly for SDBB's neighbor, but feel relieved for SDBB. Thanks for letting us know JT.

.

Professor Woodman...Fire Science...

...Really nice effort on fire breaks!

Really helps fill in the gaps....or just the opposite for fire breaks...

44
.

Consultant...

Great to hear your ok and out of the danger areas! Didn't know where you lived in California.

Though the hsbbweb family is so sorry for the thousands of families and friends enduring such a tradegy caused by these terrible fires.

Son remembers and talks often about travelling with you and your teams through Australia as one of the best times of his life. He says hello to you and your son, Coach Rob and "thanks" for asking about him.

We were evacuated but we still have our home intact. Considering the amount of peopel that were evacuated and the amount of people without a place to stay, I think they did a good job of getting the word out and moving people at a good pace.

The air is pretty bad in some areas but the schools are closed here in San Diego until tuesday.