I was talking with a 17u coach the other day and he was adamant that ALL of his catchers are pitchers.  He was very clear that he lets them rest, pitch, rest then later on in the tournament he uses them as catchers.  He said it makes the most sense because pitchers and catchers both need incredible strength, and while the throwing mechanics are different for each the strength required to make the throw is the same, and not similar to OF or the rest of the IF.  Also, it makes a better catcher if he understands fully how to pitch.

 

Now I have read on here multiple times that it is NOT good to have a player be both catcher and pitcher, it over uses the arm and will shorten the shelf life of both a catcher and a pitcher.

 

Anyone have strong feelings on this one way or the other? 

 

 

Original Post

We occasionally used our catcher(s) on our travel team (been together 12U-15U) to pitch.  But it was mostly mop up innings in a tourney.  We also made sure they were fairly well rested before and after pitching.

 

Personally I don't think its a great idea to have your primary catcher(s) also be one of your main pitchers.  

Directly from ASMI's position statement on recommendations for youth pitchers.  See #8:

 

Thus, the recommendations for preventing injuries in youth baseball pitchers are:

  1. Watch and respond to signs of fatigue (such as decreased ball velocity, decreased accuracy, upright trunk during pitching, dropped elbow during pitching, or increased time between pitches). If a youth pitcher complains of fatigue or looks fatigued, let him rest from pitching and other throwing.
  2. No overhead throwing of any kind for at least 2-3 months per year (4 months is preferred). No competitive baseball pitching for at least 4 months per year.
  3. Do not pitch more than 100 innings in games in any calendar year.
  4. Follow limits for pitch counts and days rest.
  5. Avoid pitching on multiple teams with overlapping seasons.
  6. Learn good throwing mechanics as soon as possible. The first steps should be to learn, in order: 1) basic throwing, 2) fastball pitching, 3) change-up pitching.
  7. Avoid using radar guns.
  8. A pitcher should not also be a catcher for his team. The pitcher-catcher combination results in many throws and may increase the risk of injury.
  9. If a pitcher complains of pain in his elbow or shoulder, discontinue pitching until evaluated by a sports medicine physician. Inspire youth pitchers to have fun playing baseball and other sports. Participation and enjoyment of various physical activities will increase the youth's athleticism and interest in sports.
Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:

He was very clear that he lets them rest, pitch, rest then later on in the tournament he uses them as catchers.  He said it makes the most sense because pitchers and catchers both need incredible strength, and while the throwing mechanics are different for each the strength required to make the throw is the same...

 

Makes sense for who?  The coach trying to put together a winning program, or the player? How much rest can you possibly get in a 2-3 day tournament? The way I look at it, one of the biggest factors in breaking down the kinetic chain is fatigue. The biggest issue with catching isn't the throw-backs or the throw-downs, it's the workload on your legs. A pitcher should never take the mound with a fatigued lower half. JMO

 

Every kid is different. Some can catch a game on a 90 degree day and look like they didn't even break a sweat. But most can't.

A great catcher at son's HS committed early with an ACC school years ago, he was asked to pitch also in HS and ended up with Tommy John. Unfortunately, this young man, a nice kid,  has had several injuries since then.

 

CatcherSon throws faster than his HS P's, however he stopped pitching several years ago in fear of the above.  

 

MidAtlanticDad & bballman make great points.

Just looked up on PG.

 

Top 50 ranked 2014's, total of 5 catchers:

#4, Alex Jackson = C, OF, 3B

#24, Jackson Reetz = C, RHP, OF

#29, Cobi Johnson = RHP, C, IF

#43, Devon Fisher = C, 3B, RHP, 1B

#45, Chase Vallot = C

 

3/5 of the best catchers last year were also pitchers.....thoughts?

Originally Posted by MidAtlanticDad:
Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:

He was very clear that he lets them rest, pitch, rest then later on in the tournament he uses them as catchers.  He said it makes the most sense because pitchers and catchers both need incredible strength, and while the throwing mechanics are different for each the strength required to make the throw is the same...

 

Makes sense for who?  The coach trying to put together a winning program, or the player? How much rest can you possibly get in a 2-3 day tournament? The way I look at it, one of the biggest factors in breaking down the kinetic chain is fatigue. The biggest issue with catching isn't the throw-backs or the throw-downs, it's the workload on your legs. A pitcher should never take the mound with a fatigued lower half. JMO

I agree MidAtlanticDad...but this coach did say they rest, pitch, rest then catch...they don't pitch after they catch.  Any objection to a player catching after the fatigue of pitching?

Originally Posted by joes87:

We occasionally used our catcher(s) on our travel team (been together 12U-16U) to pitch.  But it was mostly mop up innings in a tourney.  We also made sure they were fairly well rested before and after pitching.

 

Personally I don't think its a great idea to have your primary catcher(s) also be one of your main pitchers.  

BTW, I should add that the catchers no longer pitch now that we are playing at the HS level.

There are guys that do it.  Part of the problem is the fatigue factor.  Part of the problem is mechanics.  General recommendations are don't do it, too many risk factors.

 

If you know this already, why take the chance?  Some people don't know the risks, some ignore the risks.  Why be part of the 2nd group.  

Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:
Originally Posted by MidAtlanticDad:
Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:

He was very clear that he lets them rest, pitch, rest then later on in the tournament he uses them as catchers.  He said it makes the most sense because pitchers and catchers both need incredible strength, and while the throwing mechanics are different for each the strength required to make the throw is the same...

 

Makes sense for who?  The coach trying to put together a winning program, or the player? How much rest can you possibly get in a 2-3 day tournament? The way I look at it, one of the biggest factors in breaking down the kinetic chain is fatigue. The biggest issue with catching isn't the throw-backs or the throw-downs, it's the workload on your legs. A pitcher should never take the mound with a fatigued lower half. JMO

I agree MidAtlanticDad...but this coach did say they rest, pitch, rest then catch...they don't pitch after they catch.  Any objection to a player catching after the fatigue of pitching?

Define rest.  They should be resting as much as the pitchers after catching if they are going to pitch.  If they catch an entire 7 inning game they are going to need rest equal to a pitcher who pitched approximately 4 to 5 innings (based on some info I read a while back).  Which would equate to about 70 to 80 pitches.  The recommend rest for this pitching load is about 4 days I believe.  

Bryce Harper was another and he makes a nice segue to a point I want to make. If a kid is looking at the next level, I see no real problem with pitching and catching if his future is as a position player (catcher or otherwise). However, if he hopes to move the next level as a pitcher, get him out from behind the plate. Usually, by the high school level, you won't see stud pitchers catching at all and when you see a catcher also pitch, it's in a support role - not a heavy workload. At lower youth levels, it's sometimes overdone. My worry isn't with the arm, though. It's the risk of lower body fatigue.

One way to look at it is that every throw back from catcher to pitcher is the same as 1/2 a pitch.  If a catcher was on defense for 7 innings at 15 pitches per inning, he now is at the equivalent of about 55.  If you have him pitch 1/2 of the next game after 3 or 4 innings of rest, he might have 17 pitch innings due to fatigue or another 50 total.  Is he catching the next day again?  Wow!  Did your starting pitcher in the first game deliver all 105 pitches in that game?  No?  That's what your asking of the stud catcher/pitcher during the course of the day.  Only to do it all again the next day?  Ouch!!

Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:

Just looked up on PG.

 

Top 50 ranked 2014's, total of 5 catchers:

#4, Alex Jackson = C, OF, 3B

#24, Jackson Reetz = C, RHP, OF

#29, Cobi Johnson = RHP, C, IF

#43, Devon Fisher = C, 3B, RHP, 1B

#45, Chase Vallot = C

 

3/5 of the best catchers last year were also pitchers.....thoughts?

#43 Devon Fisher Pitched 0 inning senior year on State Championship team. Drafted by Boston as catcher.

Originally Posted by CatsPop:

One way to look at it is that every throw back from catcher to pitcher is the same as 1/2 a pitch.  If a catcher was on defense for 7 innings at 15 pitches per inning, he now is at the equivalent of about 55.  If you have him pitch 1/2 of the next game after 3 or 4 innings of rest, he might have 17 pitch innings due to fatigue or another 50 total.  Is he catching the next day again?  Wow!  Did your starting pitcher in the first game deliver all 105 pitches in that game?  No?  That's what your asking of the stud catcher/pitcher during the course of the day.  Only to do it all again the next day?  Ouch!!


First, I'm going to question how you come up with the throw back to the pitcher being the equivalent of 1/2 pitch. If that's to be taken as true then we're going to need to start counting up all of the pre-game tosses made while playing catch. So if my rf'er, while warming up throws the ball 80 times to another player, he starts off with the equivalent of 40 pitches when I later put him on the mound? Pluss all the infield throws between innings?

Originally Posted by roothog66:
Originally Posted by CatsPop:

One way to look at it is that every throw back from catcher to pitcher is the same as 1/2 a pitch.  If a catcher was on defense for 7 innings at 15 pitches per inning, he now is at the equivalent of about 55.  If you have him pitch 1/2 of the next game after 3 or 4 innings of rest, he might have 17 pitch innings due to fatigue or another 50 total.  Is he catching the next day again?  Wow!  Did your starting pitcher in the first game deliver all 105 pitches in that game?  No?  That's what your asking of the stud catcher/pitcher during the course of the day.  Only to do it all again the next day?  Ouch!!


First, I'm going to question how you come up with the throw back to the pitcher being the equivalent of 1/2 pitch. If that's to be taken as true then we're going to need to start counting up all of the pre-game tosses made while playing catch. So if my rf'er, while warming up throws the ball 80 times to another player, he starts off with the equivalent of 40 pitches when I later put him on the mound? Pluss all the infield throws between innings?

roothog, I've seen that stat as well.  I think it came from Dr. Andrews work but I am not sure.   

Originally Posted by roothog66:
 we're going to need to start counting up all of the pre-game tosses made while playing catch. 

Pre-game warm-ups are accounted for in the recommended pitch counts by ASMI.  Warming up is factored into the numbers that they came up with, so you never include them in the pitch count equation.  In fact, warm-up pitches between innings are also taken into account in the recommendations.  The ASMI recommendations only refer to in game pitches to batters.

Originally Posted by bballman:
Originally Posted by roothog66:
 we're going to need to start counting up all of the pre-game tosses made while playing catch. 

Pre-game warm-ups are accounted for in the recommended pitch counts by ASMI.  Warming up is factored into the numbers that they came up with, so you never include them in the pitch count equation.  In fact, warm-up pitches between innings are also taken into account in the recommendations.  The ASMI recommendations only refer to in game pitches to batters.

How many pitches has ASMI assigned as "warm up" pitches?  10, 30, 50, 100???

 

Why hasen't ASMI (American Sports Medicine Institute)  come out with recommended throw counts for catchers?  Obviously they have strong opinions about pitch counts to protect an arm and things not to do, we see these rules mimicked in tourney rules...but if every catcher throw back is equal to 1/2 a pitch where are the rules to protect the catchers arms in those tournaments?

Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:
Originally Posted by bballman:
Originally Posted by roothog66:
 we're going to need to start counting up all of the pre-game tosses made while playing catch. 

Pre-game warm-ups are accounted for in the recommended pitch counts by ASMI.  Warming up is factored into the numbers that they came up with, so you never include them in the pitch count equation.  In fact, warm-up pitches between innings are also taken into account in the recommendations.  The ASMI recommendations only refer to in game pitches to batters.

How many pitches has ASMI assigned as "warm up" pitches?  10, 30, 50, 100???

 

Why hasen't ASMI (American Sports Medicine Institute)  come out with recommended throw counts for catchers?  Obviously they have strong opinions about pitch counts to protect an arm and things not to do, we see these rules mimicked in tourney rules...but if every catcher throw back is equal to 1/2 a pitch where are the rules to protect the catchers arms in those tournaments?

It isn't an exact science, nor a "hard" pitch count.  Heck, even LL allows a kid to finish a batter after they reach their "limit."  If the recommendation is 100 pitches, then 105 or 110 isn't that much of a difference.  The idea is to prevent 120-150+. 

 

As for catchers and other position players, there is a difference between pitching and throwing.  Pitchers are throwing max velocity on every pitch.  Catcher's do not.  Trying to equate it to some percentage of a pitch is difficult at best.  So while pitching too much can clearly cause problems, the question is, is there evidence that throwing too much is problematic?  We have all heard the saying, kids don't throw enough. 

 

IMO, the biggest thing with catching and pitching is fatigue which is really what leads to problems. 

This is something else, besides pitch count, that I have to talk to my son's HS coach about.  My son is the best catcher on the team as well as one of the top 2 pitchers on the team. 

The coach is known to take a pitcher and move him to another position in the same game.  Usually my son plays 1B so it hasn't been an issue. 

As I stated before there needs to be clear enforcable rules to help prevent injuries to pitchers so that parents don't have to worry about it.

 

Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:
Originally Posted by bballman:
Originally Posted by roothog66:
 we're going to need to start counting up all of the pre-game tosses made while playing catch. 

Pre-game warm-ups are accounted for in the recommended pitch counts by ASMI.  Warming up is factored into the numbers that they came up with, so you never include them in the pitch count equation.  In fact, warm-up pitches between innings are also taken into account in the recommendations.  The ASMI recommendations only refer to in game pitches to batters.

How many pitches has ASMI assigned as "warm up" pitches?  10, 30, 50, 100???

 

Why hasen't ASMI (American Sports Medicine Institute)  come out with recommended throw counts for catchers?  Obviously they have strong opinions about pitch counts to protect an arm and things not to do, we see these rules mimicked in tourney rules...but if every catcher throw back is equal to 1/2 a pitch where are the rules to protect the catchers arms in those tournaments?

Common sense comes into play here CaCO3Girl.  Who is going to throw 100 warm up pitches???  Warm up pitches are usually not full-effort pitches either.  Some may be, but not all and not enough to count toward in-game pitches.  Also, the pitch count rules are basically guidelines.  ASMI understands that it is not a hard number.  Some pitchers may have to come out before the recommended number because they tired earlier, some pitchers may be able to go beyond the limit.  But, you have to start somewhere.  

 

I'm sure that ASMI included the recommendation about pitching and catching because they saw an increase in the injury rate for kids that both pitched and caught over kids that just did one or the other, or pitched/caught and played another position in the field.

 

They have stated on numerous occasions that the BIGGEST factor is pitching while fatigued.  Because catchers are playing a demanding position, it is recommended that they not do both.

The two positions, catcher and pitcher, are very risky.  There have been many that have done it, though.  Matt Wieters actually did it in both high school and in college.

 

Most catcher injuries are something other than arm injuries.  Most pitching injuries are arm injuries.  So catching and also pitching carries a lot of risk for injury. And when the body is worn out, the chance of arm injury increases.

 

I have a hard time believing the throw from the catcher back to the pitcher is the same as 1/2 a pitch.  Most of these throws are a simple snap of the wrist and with less effort than a Batting practice pitch.  There are BP pitchers that can and do throw hundreds of pitches every day without suffering injuries.  Obviously the throws down to 2B are different than the toss back to the pitcher.

The very nature of the beast, weekend tournament travel ball, where your playing consecutive games on consecutive days puts the player who pitches and/or catches at risk. Roster sizes further increase the risk level.

I personally do not rely on coaches to manage my risk tolerance for son's arm care. I know ASMI and MLB Smart Pitch guidelines. I have a plan with coach before season begins on how we manage pitches/innings and adjust if needed as we go.

My sons do not catch anymore but both still pitch. When older son did both, my plan with coach was to not pitch and catch same day. That level of risk was acceptable to me.

You only have one throwing arm. Manage your risk accordingly.

 

 

Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:

I was talking with a 17u coach the other day and he was adamant that ALL of his catchers are pitchers.  He was very clear that he lets them rest, pitch, rest then later on in the tournament he uses them as catchers.  He said it makes the most sense because pitchers and catchers both need incredible strength, and while the throwing mechanics are different for each the strength required to make the throw is the same, and not similar to OF or the rest of the IF.  Also, it makes a better catcher if he understands fully how to pitch.

 

Now I have read on here multiple times that it is NOT good to have a player be both catcher and pitcher, it over uses the arm and will shorten the shelf life of both a catcher and a pitcher.

 

Anyone have strong feelings on this one way or the other? 

 

 

I have never heard of a coach being ADAMANT that all his catchers be pitchers and his reason that "both need incredible strength" is certainly not very compelling when compared to all the documented reasons against.  I would quickly dismiss this POV.  This may fall under the heading of - if you want to find someone to rationalize your actions, search long enough and you'll find it.

 

You can search on this site and find many more posts on the subject.  The point about the value of catcher throw-backs to the pitcher can certainly be argued but I would not put that high on the argument list anyway.  C's and SS's have the most high-effort throws besides P's and catchers are definitely in the most taxing position overall.

 

Primary reasons against...

 

Mechanical differences

Number of high stress throws

Proper rest

Lower half fatigue

Piling on to pitch count

Exposing your pitchers' bodies to a beating

 

It's great in theory that he says he gives proper rest but think about how impossible that is in practice. A catcher throws hard during infield drills and catcher drills throughout the week as well as catching bullpens.  A pitcher throws bullpens during the week and then, if he's any good, usually throws up to his limit in games.  Where, exactly, do you fit in that appropriate rest from this double-duty?  It's not just about game management. It's not just about long weekend tourneys.  HS players are throwing in drills every day.  Unless they are on shut-down, these are high-effort throws.  When they are on shut-down, it limits the effectiveness of the overall team practice. 

 

Many HS coaches don't allow both.  Some do but are very strategic and cautious.  Some do it blindly with only the team's immediate success in mind. You usually see the kids with the strongest arms at P, SS and C.  These are the positions that require the most arm strength.  C and SS require good athleticism.  Some teams are limited in athletic kids with good arms and, thus, some coaches feel pressure to use them in the P/C and P/SS combo. That is partially why you see a few show up on the All-American list.

 

We (our HS program) have done it in spots but try to avoid.  When we do, we try to limit  it to short-stint back-up duties for each and limit practice reps and bullpens far more than normal for that player.  You certainly can't run a team if you try to do that with every pitcher and catcher.

 

If I may ask... what is the relevance of the 17u coach to your 12y.o. son?     

 

 

Originally Posted by Golfman25:

It isn't an exact science, nor a "hard" pitch count.  Heck, even LL allows a kid to finish a batter after they reach their "limit."  If the recommendation is 100 pitches, then 105 or 110 isn't that much of a difference.  The idea is to prevent 120-150+. 

 

As for catchers and other position players, there is a difference between pitching and throwing.  Pitchers are throwing max velocity on every pitchCatcher's do not.  Trying to equate it to some percentage of a pitch is difficult at best.  So while pitching too much can clearly cause problems, the question is, is there evidence that throwing too much is problematic?  We have all heard the saying, kids don't throw enough. 

 

IMO, the biggest thing with catching and pitching is fatigue which is really what leads to problems. 

A catcher making throws down to 2nd base certainly is throwing max velocity.

Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:
I agree MidAtlanticDad...but this coach did say they rest, pitch, rest then catch...they don't pitch after they catch.  Any objection to a player catching after the fatigue of pitching?

Sorry, I didn't pay attention to that distinction, and it is different. In that sequence I'm more concerned about his arm fatigue (though if he's working properly on the mound, his legs will be tired, too). With my son, I would treat it pretty much like normal pitching days rest. The elbow and shoulder are fatigued and in recovery mode, and I don't want him throwing hard to any base during that time.

 

Factoring in all these rest days, off day training, mental preparation, and I assume hitting... it just doesn't make much sense to me unless your talking about pitching a few innings here and there.

Originally Posted by lionbaseball:
Originally Posted by Golfman25:

It isn't an exact science, nor a "hard" pitch count.  Heck, even LL allows a kid to finish a batter after they reach their "limit."  If the recommendation is 100 pitches, then 105 or 110 isn't that much of a difference.  The idea is to prevent 120-150+. 

 

As for catchers and other position players, there is a difference between pitching and throwing.  Pitchers are throwing max velocity on every pitchCatcher's do not.  Trying to equate it to some percentage of a pitch is difficult at best.  So while pitching too much can clearly cause problems, the question is, is there evidence that throwing too much is problematic?  We have all heard the saying, kids don't throw enough. 

 

IMO, the biggest thing with catching and pitching is fatigue which is really what leads to problems. 

A catcher making throws down to 2nd base certainly is throwing max velocity.

Yes, but a good catcher only has to throw a couple of times before the opposition gets the point. 

Originally Posted by cabbagedad:

If I may ask... what is the relevance of the 17u coach to your 12y.o. son?     

Darn it cabbagedad, you caught me! 

 

The 17u coach in question is also my son's 12u coach.  That is the conversation we had, and his 17u kid is the primary catcher and also a RHP, so he is drinking his own kool-aid, and it's what he has been doing and plans for my son to do, so I wanted input regarding what others thought.

 

I have found that I get more informative answers if I leave out the 12u in my post, and in this case I was thinking about ramification further down the line and was this "normal" farther down the time line, so it seemed okay to leave out the 12u. 

 

I will now be expecting the posts that center solely on 12u arms and have very little to do with late HS or college, which have been blessedly absent so far.

Smart Pitch & USA Baseball posting:

Excessive Throwing When Not Pitching

 

A pitcher should not also be a catcher for his team as it is the next most throwing-intensive position and results in far more throws than players at other positions. ASMI found that amateurs who played catcher while not pitching were 2.7 times more likely to suffer a major arm injury.

Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:
...

I have found that I get more informative answers if I leave out the 12u in my post, and in this case I was thinking about ramification further down the line and was this "normal" farther down the time line, so it seemed okay to leave out the 12u. 

...

I know and I'm sorry I called that out.  I think it is great that you are making it a point to become so well-informed ahead of the curve. (although, in this case, if he is also the 12u coach and plans to do that with your son, it becomes an immediate concern as well.)  Admittedly, part of me is still trying to keep you from getting too far ahead of yourself so that you get full enjoyment of each age your son goes through but part of me was really curious as to what this coach's influence was on your son.  I was hoping maybe it was just a passing casual conversation and, perhaps, things were lost in translation a bit.  If this thread goes sideways, my apologies.  As I mentioned, there are several other good threads on the topic you can search.

It is less and less "normal" further down the line. 

Originally Posted by Golfman25:
Originally Posted by lionbaseball:

A catcher making throws down to 2nd base certainly is throwing max velocity.

Yes, but a good catcher only has to throw a couple of times before the opposition gets the point. 

Unless the pitcher has a slow delivery or the 2nd or SS have issues catching the ball. 

Originally Posted by cabbagedad:
Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:
...

I have found that I get more informative answers if I leave out the 12u in my post, and in this case I was thinking about ramification further down the line and was this "normal" farther down the time line, so it seemed okay to leave out the 12u. 

...

I know and I'm sorry I called that out.  I think it is great that you are making it a point to become so well-informed ahead of the curve. (although, in this case, if he is also the 12u coach and plans to do that with your son, it becomes an immediate concern as well.)  Admittedly, part of me is still trying to keep you from getting too far ahead of yourself so that you get full enjoyment of each age your son goes through but part of me was really curious as to what this coach's influence was on your son.  I was hoping maybe it was just a passing casual conversation and, perhaps, things were lost in translation a bit.  If this thread goes sideways, my apologies.  As I mentioned, there are several other good threads on the topic you can search.

It is less and less "normal" further down the line. 

CaCo3Girl- I would take this advise from Cabbagedad. 

Originally Posted by cabbagedad:
Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:
...

I have found that I get more informative answers if I leave out the 12u in my post, and in this case I was thinking about ramification further down the line and was this "normal" farther down the time line, so it seemed okay to leave out the 12u. 

...

I know and I'm sorry I called that out.  I think it is great that you are making it a point to become so well-informed ahead of the curve. (although, in this case, if he is also the 12u coach and plans to do that with your son, it becomes an immediate concern as well.)  Admittedly, part of me is still trying to keep you from getting too far ahead of yourself so that you get full enjoyment of each age your son goes through but part of me was really curious as to what this coach's influence was on your son.  I was hoping maybe it was just a passing casual conversation and, perhaps, things were lost in translation a bit.  If this thread goes sideways, my apologies.  As I mentioned, there are several other good threads on the topic you can search.

It is less and less "normal" further down the line. 

I think that was a great advice and it wasn't hard to catch on that the coach was also her sons coach.

I guess people think we can be fooled easily.

Its not unusual for catchers to pitch when needed, but if a pitcher shows the ability to be an above average pitcher, then he should not catch.

 

I agree with what roothog stated. In HS games some of the guys did catch and pitch, never did son as it was obvious he would be a pitcher.  On the 17/18U travel team ( for recruiting exposure) he played in HS, pitchers were pitchers and catchers were catchers. Period.

 

When my son was 13 their catcher went down, so the agreement was that he should be the catcher until the other was ready to come back and NO PITCHING. FWIW, his coach was a former pro player and his father was a ML catcher. I guess he saw an ability and wanted to be safe and we appreciated it very much.

 

 

Matt Weiters would pitch late innings in college in a game after he caught, he played same conference as son, same years. He wasn't a pitcher, he just threw the ball hard (FB) to try to get it past the hitters This year he was unable to help his team in the playoffs, he had shoulder issues.

 

Bryce Harper also wasnt up to snuff this year either.  It all takes its toll eventually, so once again, most likely everything you do (including those youth years) will catch u.

 

I am not sure why people argue these points, too much is not too good for anyone, and I wish that the info that is supplied now would have been available when son was younger. Good that you ask these questions now and not later. You will get more honesty here than anywhere else.

 

Its all about common sense, I just don't get why folks don't get that.

 

JMO

 

Originally Posted by bballman:

There are guys that do it.  Part of the problem is the fatigue factor.  Part of the problem is mechanics.  General recommendations are don't do it, too many risk factors.

 

If you know this already, why take the chance?  Some people don't know the risks, some ignore the risks.  Why be part of the 2nd group.  

+1

Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:
Originally Posted by MidAtlanticDad:
Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:

He was very clear that he lets them rest, pitch, rest then later on in the tournament he uses them as catchers.  He said it makes the most sense because pitchers and catchers both need incredible strength, and while the throwing mechanics are different for each the strength required to make the throw is the same...

 

Makes sense for who?  The coach trying to put together a winning program, or the player? How much rest can you possibly get in a 2-3 day tournament? The way I look at it, one of the biggest factors in breaking down the kinetic chain is fatigue. The biggest issue with catching isn't the throw-backs or the throw-downs, it's the workload on your legs. A pitcher should never take the mound with a fatigued lower half. JMO

I agree MidAtlanticDad...but this coach did say they rest, pitch, rest then catch...they don't pitch after they catch.  Any objection to a player catching after the fatigue of pitching?

Absolutely! I don't want a player at any position where he has to make a hard throw after fatigue from pitching. Especially if his arm cools down.

This goes back to LL all stars. But the point is the same at any level. Twice my son caught six innings and pitched the seventh when the game went into extra innings. Both times a kid with great control was all over the place. One time he struck out three and walked three. The other time he went high in the count to all three hitters. His legs were tired. When legs get tired pitching mechanics can be altered. Altered mechanics can lead to arm problems. These two games were the only time in his baseball journey he did this. I told the head coach it wasn't happening twice in the same tournament. He did it once each at districts and sections.

When my son was 9 we met a MLB old-time scout for the Dodgers. He asked my son what positions he played. Son replied, pitcher, 1st and catcher. The Scout replied they always need catchers in the Majors. Hearing that statement I always encouraged catching. The last time my son caught a game was 14U LL All Stars. He's now a 2015 17 year old RHP signed to a D1 program.  And he is still learning the art of pitching. After going through the recruiting process, one thing I found out was the term " the money is up the middle" as far as scholarships. LHP, C, RHP, SS, CF. There will always be catchers that can throw hard, but their pop time and power at the plate will be better than their control as a pitcher. And a pitcher that can catch but will never have a 1.8 pop time . My  $.02

 

Originally Posted by shane52:

When my son was 9 we met a MLB old-time scout for the Dodgers. He asked my son what positions he played. Son replied, pitcher, 1st and catcher. The Scout replied they always need catchers in the Majors. Hearing that statement I always encouraged catching. The last time my son caught a game was 14U LL All Stars. He's now a 2015 17 year old RHP signed to a D1 program.  And he is still learning the art of pitching. After going through the recruiting process, one thing I found out was the term " the money is up the middle" as far as scholarships. LHP, C, RHP, SS, CF. There will always be catchers that can throw hard, but their pop time and power at the plate will be better than their control as a pitcher. And a pitcher that can catch but will never have a 1.8 pop time . My  $.02

 

my son is heading into a similar situation:  He is a 2017 who has always been a catcher Who occationaly pitched.  He has also been the number 4 hitter.  But at the moment, his pop time is around 1.9 and he sits at 86 as a RHP.   It will be interesting to see where he plays this HS season (and beyond).

Originally Posted by Dadofa17:
Originally Posted by shane52:

When my son was 9 we met a MLB old-time scout for the Dodgers. He asked my son what positions he played. Son replied, pitcher, 1st and catcher. The Scout replied they always need catchers in the Majors. Hearing that statement I always encouraged catching. The last time my son caught a game was 14U LL All Stars. He's now a 2015 17 year old RHP signed to a D1 program.  And he is still learning the art of pitching. After going through the recruiting process, one thing I found out was the term " the money is up the middle" as far as scholarships. LHP, C, RHP, SS, CF. There will always be catchers that can throw hard, but their pop time and power at the plate will be better than their control as a pitcher. And a pitcher that can catch but will never have a 1.8 pop time . My  $.02

 

my son is heading into a similar situation:  He is a 2017 who has always been a catcher Who occationaly pitched.  He has also been the number 4 hitter.  But at the moment, his pop time is around 1.9 and he sits at 86 as a RHP.   It will be interesting to see where he plays this HS season (and beyond).

To be a pitcher, you have to be able to pitch, not just throw the ball hard and get people out.  Seen far too many catchers get converted and it ended their career. 

 

Two way players are rarely good at both of what they do, only a few sneak through. Those are generally the ones with power arms, but can't hit the ball anymore.

I wonder how many MLB catchers pitched in high school and college?   I know Buster Posey pitched in high school. Bryce Harper caught and pitched in college.

I also wonder if pitchers, who can catch, make the best catchers because they understand the importance of framing a pitch? 

If you are a serious baseball player (heading for college or Pro), you are a pitcher or you are not! Not the pitcher today, then tomorrow's shortstop or catcher. Pitchers pitch today, then rest/ slowly prepare for their next game in a few days. You can't be a race horse today and a work horse tomorrow!!

 

Yes, the throw is different; different mechanics. Pitchers may throw 100 pitches today; most in earnest. Shortstops and catchers will make throws in earnest too.... but maybe about 12!!  So, the pitcher is at a higher risk for injury.

 

If you believe your future is pitching, then train that way. If not, focus on the position(s) that provides your best future in the game. Any coach/ manager that does not agree with this, is not acting in the best interest of the player. I believe a discussion with the coach prior to the season is the best way to determine the path. If there is a disagreement, it may be a bad match...move on. Why ruin a promising shortstop or catcher because the current team is short on pitching?

 

Originally Posted by Coach Rick:
Why ruin a promising shortstop or catcher because the current team is short on pitching?

 

Coach Rick, I understand what you have written...but the last time I posted a similar sentiment I got hammered for my kid sounding like a brat because you play where the coach wants you to play, you don't tell the coach where you, as the player, don't want to play.  Multiple people said that sounds like a non-teammate, and a poor attitude.

 

As of this moment in time my kid is 12, and his pitching is very very very good, while his catching is only very good...but he LOVES being behind the plate, not throwing over it in large part because of the rest period before and after pitching.

 

Thoughts?

Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:
Originally Posted by Coach Rick:
Why ruin a promising shortstop or catcher because the current team is short on pitching?

 

Coach Rick, I understand what you have written...but the last time I posted a similar sentiment I got hammered for my kid sounding like a brat because you play where the coach wants you to play, you don't tell the coach where you, as the player, don't want to play.  Multiple people said that sounds like a non-teammate, and a poor attitude.

 

As of this moment in time my kid is 12, and his pitching is very very very good, while his catching is only very good...but he LOVES being behind the plate, not throwing over it in large part because of the rest period before and after pitching.

 

Thoughts?


Not that he can't speak for himself, but I think Rick's response was more generally aimed at kids older than 12. Maybe I'm wrong about what he thinks, though. At 12u or even 13u, it's a different call. It's the rare kid at 12 that understands for sure that he has a promising career at any position confidentally enough to specialize at that spot.

Yes, I was referring to the player with college aspirations/ potential. At 12-13 yo, anyone/ everyone who can throw strikes is a pitcher while playing other positions. And that's OK...

But, around 14-16 a player's strengths become apparent. That's the time to focus/ invest in that position. If you believe your future is pitching, then train that way. If not, stay off the mound!!

As a coach, you want each player to advance to the next level. A school is only as good as its graduates... same with a coach.



Originally Posted by Coach Rick:

Yes, I was referring to the player with college aspirations/ potential. At 12-13 yo, anyone/ everyone who can throw strikes is a pitcher while playing other positions. And that's OK...

But, around 14-16 a player's strengths become apparent. That's the time to focus/ invest in that position. If you believe your future is pitching, then train that way. If not, stay off the mound!!

As a coach, you want each player to advance to the next level. A school is only as good as its graduates... same with a coach.



Okay, for arguments sake, how does a 15 year old who is throwing 80+ kindly tell the coach he would rather stay off the mound?

Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:
Originally Posted by Coach Rick:

Yes, I was referring to the player with college aspirations/ potential. At 12-13 yo, anyone/ everyone who can throw strikes is a pitcher while playing other positions. And that's OK...

But, around 14-16 a player's strengths become apparent. That's the time to focus/ invest in that position. If you believe your future is pitching, then train that way. If not, stay off the mound!!

As a coach, you want each player to advance to the next level. A school is only as good as its graduates... same with a coach.



Okay, for arguments sake, how does a 15 year old who is throwing 80+ kindly tell the coach he would rather stay off the mound?

You are not paying attention to what was stated.  He said, and I agree, that as the player gets older their strengths become more apparent.  Just because the player is throwing 80 doesnt mean that he may be suited to be a pitcher.  Unfortunetly sooner or later someone will tell you that in order to move forward you have to accept another position. I know because it happened to son. It happens to many many players.  I think that justbaseball player pointed that out a while back in his topic.

 

Why do parents that have players who haven't made it to the larger field worry so much? As we have told you , everything changes.  You might not get that, but I assure you that you will.  Enjoy every stage and stop planning for something that at this time you have no control over.

Originally Posted by Coach Rick:

Teams are built up the middle; SS, C, CF and a few Ps. 

I believe a good catcher is more valuable to the team than a pitcher.

He plays everyday, every pitch.  Catchers are a rare breed... and they love it!!

 

I agree 100%, it takes a very special player to be a catcher, but catching at 12 is a whole lot different than at 18.

Keep in mind Buster Posey was a short stop before he was a catcher. He also could hit the ball, something that you have to do to be a top D1 or professional pitcher.

Originally Posted by Coach Rick:

Teams are built up the middle; SS, C, CF and a few Ps. 

I believe a good catcher is more valuable to the team than a pitcher.

He plays everyday, every pitch.  Catchers are a rare breed... and they love it!!

 

They should be the highest paid players on the team. 

Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:
Originally Posted by Coach Rick:

Yes, I was referring to the player with college aspirations/ potential. At 12-13 yo, anyone/ everyone who can throw strikes is a pitcher while playing other positions. And that's OK...

But, around 14-16 a player's strengths become apparent. That's the time to focus/ invest in that position. If you believe your future is pitching, then train that way. If not, stay off the mound!!

As a coach, you want each player to advance to the next level. A school is only as good as its graduates... same with a coach.



Okay, for arguments sake, how does a 15 year old who is throwing 80+ kindly tell the coach he would rather stay off the mound?

"Coach my arm hurts". A friends son loved catching. He caught games in the Pony League World Series. Made the HS varsity team and played catcher his sophomore year. He threw hard and was asked to pitch his junior year. A ligament in his elbow got stretched from throwing to many breaking balls. After some rehab he finished his HS career in the outfield. He was recruited to a Major D1 to play outfield. Transferred and finished playing college ball as a utility player.

Originally Posted by TPM:
Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:
Okay, for arguments sake, how does a 15 year old who is throwing 80+ kindly tell the coach he would rather stay off the mound?

You are not paying attention to what was stated.  He said, and I agree, that as the player gets older their strengths become more apparent.  Just because the player is throwing 80 doesnt mean that he may be suited to be a pitcher.  Unfortunetly sooner or later someone will tell you that in order to move forward you have to accept another position. I know because it happened to son. It happens to many many players.  I think that justbaseball player pointed that out a while back in his topic.

 

Why do parents that have players who haven't made it to the larger field worry so much? As we have told you , everything changes.  You might not get that, but I assure you that you will.  Enjoy every stage and stop planning for something that at this time you have no control over.

 

1. Just because the player is throwing 80 doesnt mean that he may be suited to be a pitcher.

 

 TPM, I am well aware that you are an elder of sorts on this board...but REALLY?  A 15 year old that can throw 80+ in the strike zone...and a coach won't consider him a pitcher?  Please explain that one.....

 

2. Why do parents that have players who haven't made it to the larger field worry so much? As we have told you , everything changes.

 

I fully believe you that EVERYTHING changes, but I doubt my kid's dislike of pitching will be changing....so....why not get advice now on how HE should approach that if it naturally came up in a thread?  By all accounts he will be playing on the "big field" in September...should I wait until August to ask about it? 

Elder...lol. Thanks, I will remember that.

 

What is 80+ anyway?  There are lots of kids that throw hard, that DOES NOT make them a pitcher.  Seems like he wants to be a catcher, but there is a big possibility he will turn pitcher. If the coach says you will pitch, he will, but that is not the discussion, its whether too much throwing is any good for anyone, no matter which position they will end up playing some day.

 

One of my sons teammates in college came as a position player. He left as a pitcher, he hated it, so did his parents.  But he wasn't going to get drafted very high as a position player with a lose arm than a hitter with speed who couldn't hit. He was a pitcher for the Yankees, in ML.

 

Whats your point anyway?

Originally Posted by TPM:

Elder...lol. Thanks, I will remember that.

 

What is 80+ anyway?  There are lots of kids that throw hard, that DOES NOT make them a pitcher.  Seems like he wants to be a catcher, but there is a big possibility he will turn pitcher. If the coach says you will pitch, he will, but that is not the discussion, its whether too much throwing is any good for anyone, no matter which position they will end up playing some day.

 

One of my sons teammates in college came as a position player. He left as a pitcher, he hated it, so did his parents.  But he wasn't going to get drafted very high as a position player with a lose arm than a hitter with speed who couldn't hit. He was a pitcher for the Yankees, in ML.

 

Whats your point anyway?


I think her point is (not meaning neessarily to speak for her) that 15yo freshman throwing 80mph is going to be pressured to pitch and just saying tell the coach "no is easy advise to give, but might not be that simple. I expect to hear back from posters that, yes, it is that simple. Not for a 15yo.

Originally Posted by TPM:

Elder...lol. Thanks, I will remember that.

 

What is 80+ anyway?  There are lots of kids that throw hard, that DOES NOT make them a pitcher.  Seems like he wants to be a catcher, but there is a big possibility he will turn pitcher. If the coach says you will pitch, he will, but that is not the discussion, its whether too much throwing is any good for anyone, no matter which position they will end up playing some day.

 

One of my sons teammates in college came as a position player. He left as a pitcher, he hated it, so did his parents.  But he wasn't going to get drafted very high as a position player with a lose arm than a hitter with speed who couldn't hit. He was a pitcher for the Yankees, in ML.

 

Whats your point anyway?

Would you prefer Mrs. Elder????...sorry your 10K+ posts give you away!

 

 Sadly I think you are right...my son did really well at pitching last night posting a pretty big number, mastering every odd grip they showed him, the ball was defying the laws of motion (totally freaky to watch), and the coaches were ecstatic...but when he got in the car he looked heart broken.  He accidentally hurt one of his teammates last night because he was pitching so hard, and also said he was terrified that now all he will be allowed to do is rest/pitch/hit..rest/pitch/hit...and he will never see the field again!  Then he said, once again, that he REALLY doesn't like pitching and in the same breath asked when the next catcher only practice was... so this topic was on my brain a bit today and yes, I was off topic, but I figured it was my thread, and I could hijack it if I wanted to

Originally Posted by roothog66:
Originally Posted by TPM:

Elder...lol. Thanks, I will remember that.

 

What is 80+ anyway?  There are lots of kids that throw hard, that DOES NOT make them a pitcher.  Seems like he wants to be a catcher, but there is a big possibility he will turn pitcher. If the coach says you will pitch, he will, but that is not the discussion, its whether too much throwing is any good for anyone, no matter which position they will end up playing some day.

 

One of my sons teammates in college came as a position player. He left as a pitcher, he hated it, so did his parents.  But he wasn't going to get drafted very high as a position player with a lose arm than a hitter with speed who couldn't hit. He was a pitcher for the Yankees, in ML.

 

Whats your point anyway?


I think her point is (not meaning neessarily to speak for her) that 15yo freshman throwing 80mph is going to be pressured to pitch and just saying tell the coach "no is easy advise to give, but might not be that simple. I expect to hear back from posters that, yes, it is that simple. Not for a 15yo.

Exactly...if you tell the coach no you are trying to run their team for them....if you don't speak up you are GOING to be a pitcher, which isn't what you want...so what are your choices? (And I'm talking about that 15 year old again)

 

1. Speak up and be considered an uncoachable brat?

2. Accept that even though you have talent at other positions and can hit...you can ONLY play baseball if you are a pitcher because you can pitch well?

 

Is that really what it comes down to...if you can pitch well you have ZERO choice you WILL be a pitcher or quit baseball?

Originally Posted by roothog66:
Originally Posted by TPM:

Elder...lol. Thanks, I will remember that.

 

What is 80+ anyway?  There are lots of kids that throw hard, that DOES NOT make them a pitcher.  Seems like he wants to be a catcher, but there is a big possibility he will turn pitcher. If the coach says you will pitch, he will, but that is not the discussion, its whether too much throwing is any good for anyone, no matter which position they will end up playing some day.

 

One of my sons teammates in college came as a position player. He left as a pitcher, he hated it, so did his parents.  But he wasn't going to get drafted very high as a position player with a lose arm than a hitter with speed who couldn't hit. He was a pitcher for the Yankees, in ML.

 

Whats your point anyway?


I think her point is (not meaning neessarily to speak for her) that 15yo freshman throwing 80mph is going to be pressured to pitch and just saying tell the coach "no is easy advise to give, but might not be that simple. I expect to hear back from posters that, yes, it is that simple. Not for a 15yo.

Who said that the player should say no?

I agree it is not that simple. All circumstances are different. Most likely almost everyone of ours sons have been told at one time that they need to play another position other than the ONE they LOVE.  And yes I support the coach that tells the player he will make the team, but not at the position he LOVES.  What I dont support is a coach or coaches that  makes a player play stressful positions all at one time, which would be pitcher, catcher, ss.

If you come on a team that already has a catcher, and you are going to have to do bull pen duty, there are one of three things you can do, turn down another opportunity to stay in teh game, be a bull pne catcher and work on what you have to get better, or go find another team to play on. How many players play one position in travel but another in HS? 

And yes if you tell the coach no just because you dont like that position you are a spoiled brat, but if you say no because of injury issues than what is there to discuss? 

My point is not to worry about this stuff until it happens, but do have concerns if there is a health issue, for sure.

 

My opinion is that for any player, if you really LOVE the game, you will do anything to stay in it. And at some point, there may be someone who really sees better opportunity for you. I am grateful that son had good people who steered him in the right direction.

Ok so not to go backwards but for mine it was really really hard for him to be told that his future would be as a PO.  That's quite a bitter pill to swallow when you played just about every position and could hit the ball better than most (very slow though..lol). He was 16 at the time. 

 

Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:
Originally Posted by roothog66:
Originally Posted by TPM:

Elder...lol. Thanks, I will remember that.

 

What is 80+ anyway?  There are lots of kids that throw hard, that DOES NOT make them a pitcher.  Seems like he wants to be a catcher, but there is a big possibility he will turn pitcher. If the coach says you will pitch, he will, but that is not the discussion, its whether too much throwing is any good for anyone, no matter which position they will end up playing some day.

 

One of my sons teammates in college came as a position player. He left as a pitcher, he hated it, so did his parents.  But he wasn't going to get drafted very high as a position player with a lose arm than a hitter with speed who couldn't hit. He was a pitcher for the Yankees, in ML.

 

Whats your point anyway?


I think her point is (not meaning neessarily to speak for her) that 15yo freshman throwing 80mph is going to be pressured to pitch and just saying tell the coach "no is easy advise to give, but might not be that simple. I expect to hear back from posters that, yes, it is that simple. Not for a 15yo.

Exactly...if you tell the coach no you are trying to run their team for them....if you don't speak up you are GOING to be a pitcher, which isn't what you want...so what are your choices? (And I'm talking about that 15 year old again)

 

1. Speak up and be considered an uncoachable brat?

2. Accept that even though you have talent at other positions and can hit...you can ONLY play baseball if you are a pitcher because you can pitch well?

 

Is that really what it comes down to...if you can pitch well you have ZERO choice you WILL be a pitcher or quit baseball?

I will say it one more time, maybe you will get it, you are just worrying about something that you do not have to at this time.

Originally Posted by TPM:

And yes if you tell the coach no just because you dont like that position you are a spoiled brat, but if you say no because of injury issues than what is there to discuss? 

I get you are a brat if you say I will ONLY play position X....but is the 15 year old a brat if he says I would prefer to play ANY of the other 8 positions, please I don't want to pitch.

Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:
Originally Posted by TPM:

And yes if you tell the coach no just because you dont like that position you are a spoiled brat, but if you say no because of injury issues than what is there to discuss? 

I get you are a brat if you say I will ONLY play position X....but is the 15 year old a brat if he says I would prefer to play ANY of the other 8 positions, please I don't want to pitch.


I'll have to admit that if he were on my team, I'd probably be pressuring him to pitch. I'd try to sell it rather than demand it, but I wouldn't passively take no for an answer. My understanding is that your kid is in a pretty well known program with a lot of talent. They probably won't be so desparate for pitching talent that they will press too much. Trust me, they will press a little, though.

 

Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:
Originally Posted by TPM:

And yes if you tell the coach no just because you dont like that position you are a spoiled brat, but if you say no because of injury issues than what is there to discuss? 

I get you are a brat if you say I will ONLY play position X....but is the 15 year old a brat if he says I would prefer to play ANY of the other 8 positions, please I don't want to pitch.

CaCO, I've been reading your threads and posts.  If I understand correctly your son wants to be a catcher, you are paying an org to develop / play your son, they are wanting him to pitch, and he is 12.  Tell the coach he wants to be a catcher, not a pitcher.  If they still insist he pitch, go somewhere else.

 

You know your son and situation much better than the posters.

 

It's that simple.

Originally Posted by roothog66:
Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:
Originally Posted by TPM:

And yes if you tell the coach no just because you dont like that position you are a spoiled brat, but if you say no because of injury issues than what is there to discuss? 

I get you are a brat if you say I will ONLY play position X....but is the 15 year old a brat if he says I would prefer to play ANY of the other 8 positions, please I don't want to pitch.


I'll have to admit that if he were on my team, I'd probably be pressuring him to pitch. I'd try to sell it rather than demand it, but I wouldn't passively take no for an answer. My understanding is that your kid is in a pretty well known program with a lot of talent. They probably won't be so desparate for pitching talent that they will press too much. Trust me, they will press a little, though.

 

How does one know what will happen in years from now when the player reaches and plays in HS? If you told son he was gonna be a PO he would have laughed you in the face. However, he loved the game so much he would do anything he was told, and above all he trusted those that were telling him where his success would come.

Pitchers become pitchers only for a reason.  Only if you are better suited ( speed, pop time, leadership) for another position will a very live arm never pitch. More catchers in pro ball will convert to pitchers to stay in the game or accept another position, only if they can HIT the ball.

 

Come recruiting time any coach running a travel team worth anything WILL press you to play at the position you are best at.

 

 

Get your kid on a team that will play him as the #1 catcher, it's pretty simple. I think you "may" be caught up in an "organization" or a "name on a jersey". He can ALWAYS practice pitching with a pitching coach if that is what you/he sees as his ultimate path to college or pro ball. I love hearing from "elite" teams parents (not an indictment) who blather on about having their kid being seen, winning the xxy national tourney in Hoboken or droning on about their coaches who are the best yadda yadda yadda. Let your kid play on a team who values him as their #1 catcher....and sometimes, for heaven's sake you have be the parent and help him make that move to a team.. without his friends so that his interest/desire of being a catcher is respected & applied. 

 

Anyone who thinks at 12U a kid is a quitter for not adjusting to the coaches wishes can go pound sand....everything changes a few years down the road and those 12U coaches wont be there to pick your kid up....i guarantee it.

I agree. Now I'm trying to be funny here. In a perfect world all our boys would be 5 tool ball players. Or at least 2-way ball players. Trotsky baseball and MLB scouts would add a 6th tool. They want a ballplayer to have that intangible quality. The mental makeup a player develops. The ability to slow the game down. I'd like to add the 7th tool for the pitcher. The ability to not remember what happened 10 seconds earlier. Pitchers are pitchers because they love to pitch. At the highest level, Pitchers are a rare and strange breed.

They are just as rare as catchers. Agreed.
I am just wondering how far any player gets playing just one position HS. I remember whoever caught also played other positions. As long as they hit they didnt sit. 
Most position players given scholarships just didnt play one position in youth ball or in HS.
Why not just try letting your player be the best he can be and not worry about whats gonna happen when he isnt even in HS yet?
Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:
Then he said, once again, that he REALLY doesn't like pitching and in the same breath asked when the next catcher only practice was...

Just have him catch. He's 12 and he doesn't like pitching, he likes catching, so let him catch (on a different team if his current one won't let him). He should be having fun playing, not be forced into something at age 12 that he doesn't want to do. That seems like a recipe for an unhappy kid. And if his future (i.e., high school varsity, college, etc.) really, truly is on the mound, he won't be harmed by NOT pitching in travel ball at age 12. Heck, it might actually help him to NOT throw 100 innings or 500 curveballs this year.

Well I think I have said over and over for years and years as a young player its about having fun. And that not pitching until later is more beneficial.
But what do I know.
You can do whatever you wish with your topic..I'm out.
granbyfan posted:
Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:

Just looked up on PG.

 

Top 50 ranked 2014's, total of 5 catchers:

#4, Alex Jackson = C, OF, 3B

#24, Jackson Reetz = C, RHP, OF

#29, Cobi Johnson = RHP, C, IF

#43, Devon Fisher = C, 3B, RHP, 1B

#45, Chase Vallot = C

 

3/5 of the best catchers last year were also pitchers.....thoughts?

#43 Devon Fisher Pitched 0 inning senior year on State Championship team. Drafted by Boston as catcher.

Actually Devon Fisher had pitched pretty much his entire Jr year at GCA and did in fact close out quite a few games for WB his Sr year. Ironically enough after injuring his left shoulder in the GCL 2015, he has now converted to a full time pitcher for the Red Sox.

CaCO3Girl posted:

I was talking with a 17u coach the other day and he was adamant that ALL of his catchers are pitchers.  He was very clear that he lets them rest, pitch, rest then later on in the tournament he uses them as catchers.  He said it makes the most sense because pitchers and catchers both need incredible strength, and while the throwing mechanics are different for each the strength required to make the throw is the same, and not similar to OF or the rest of the IF.  Also, it makes a better catcher if he understands fully how to pitch.

 

Now I have read on here multiple times that it is NOT good to have a player be both catcher and pitcher, it over uses the arm and will shorten the shelf life of both a catcher and a pitcher.

 

Anyone have strong feelings on this one way or the other? 

 

 

I find the idea to be bizarre. And you're talking to a guy who did both, up till I was 16 yo.

My son pitched and caught thru high school, but was always watched very carefully to be sure he didn't over do it.  He went to college as a catcher but at his D1 they always looked at any of the players who had experience pitching in the fall to see what they had.  He went to a D1 JUCO his freshman year and was a catcher only.  He was picked up his soph year by a good mid major D1 and won the starting catchers job as a soph, but broke his hand sliding into second the first inning of the second game of the year.  In a cast all he could do was throw, and when he was released after 6 weeks he wasn't allowed to hit or catch.  He entered a few games and pitched, did well some games, struggled in others.  Next fall at pro day he hit 95 twice in front of the scouts.  Spent that year as DH and did a little pitching.  He was drafted as a pitcher, didn't sign and returned to get his degree.  His senior year he was all conference catcher.  He played 4 years after college, the first as a pitcher and the next three as a catcher.

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