baseballhs posted:

Depends on the level recruiting. They want the measurable AND the game play.  I watched a lefty kid come in throwing 81-83 and completely shutdown a team of P5 commits and no one cared. There were probably 10 P5 coaches there and no one talked to him at all.  You can throw a perfect game throwing 85-86... P5 coaches won’t even look.  There are too many kids in that pool. They want it all, and if you only have 1...it better be velo (obviously just speaking for pitchers).

Pitching velo is really the only measurable that matters because it usually translates to outs. 90 off a tee means nothing if everything is a chopper. 92 across is infield is a waste if the footwork and hands aren't there.

Measurables are useful for projection. This kid is tall and skinny now - if we put some muscle on him this is what he can be doing. He only weighs 160 and he's already putting the ball the fence. Get him in a weigh room eating 3500 calories a day and watch him hit bombs for us. Kid has a cannon from short, wait until we work with his hands. 

Colleges don't really want kids who are a finished product when they're 16/17. They want kids who are good, but they know they can get more out of. 

Consultant posted:

ADBONO;

is there a "measurable" for "baseball intelligence", the 6th Tool and "desire to compete"?

It is called "non verbal" communication. Watch the player when he departs his car before practice or the game. Is the cell phone turn off. Is he walking tall and carrying his own equipment. If he is a hitter where is the bat? Is his shoes shined? Shirt "tucked in".

Cap squared in his head. "Is he ready to play"? Where is his water bottle?

Bob

"founder" of the Area Code games and Goodwill Series Int'l

a scout who uses these items as a primary rating factor is either retired or has become obsolete. In todays world zero kids have the phone turned off walking away from car (I might actually be more concerned about them if they did)...I would guess that less then .005% kids playing baseball in the entire U.S. have ever shined their spikes prior to a game and a smaller number before practice. The shirt tucked in another one, along with if they wear pants to the field or put them on in the parking lot...just silly.

All that being said I do think there is merit to body language and how they carry themselves but if a professional evaluator is going to be effective they better understand societal norms for the age. 

 

Edit - cause occasionally typing is lost to me.

Last edited by old_school
old_school posted:
Consultant posted:

ADBONO;

is there a "measurable" for "baseball intelligence", the 6th Tool and "desire to compete"?

It is called "non verbal" communication. Watch the player when he departs his car before practice or the game. Is the cell phone turn off. Is he walking tall and carrying his own equipment. If he is a hitter where is the bat? Is his shoes shined? Shirt "tucked in".

Cap squared in his head. "Is he ready to play"? Where is his water bottle?

Bob

"founder" of the Area Code games and Goodwill Series Int'l

a scout who uses these items as a primary rating factor is either retired or has become obsolete. In todays world zero kids have the phone turned off walking away from car (I might actually be more concerned about them if they did)...I would guess that less then .005% kids playing baseball in the entire U.S. have ever shined their spikes prior to a game and a smaller number before practice. The shirt tucked in another one, along with if they where pants to the field or put them on in the parking lot...just silly.

All that being said I do think there is merit to body language and how they carry themselves but if a professional evaluator is going to effective they better understand societal norms for the age. 

I will give you that a couple of Bob’s examples are a bit outdated. But his point is valid. 

Thanks for the responses.

looking at projectables -

I'm a big guy 6'3" 250+( getting softer as I get older)  I Don't think he will be as big LB wise- I was 5'11 180 when I graduated HS then grew in college and a little more on the military. at 21-22 6'3" 215. but I think he may get as tall.

Grandpa was 6'2"205.

2012 Brother is 6'1 205.

2019 is 6'2 180 now after this summer of weight room. added 10 lbs. Looking forward to the return from college this winter and 5am weights.

No phones at field. period. They stay in the car. 

Alaskan posted:

Thanks for the responses.

looking at projectables -

I'm a big guy 6'3" 250+( getting softer as I get older)  I Don't think he will be as big LB wise- I was 5'11 180 when I graduated HS then grew in college and a little more on the military. at 21-22 6'3" 215. but I think he may get as tall.

Grandpa was 6'2"205.

2012 Brother is 6'1 205.

2019 is 6'2 180 now after this summer of weight room. added 10 lbs. Looking forward to the return from college this winter and 5am weights.

No phones at field. period. They stay in the car. 

Not really a medical expert, but i've heard that your child's height has something to do with your wife's dad's height as well, all things being equal.

D6L posted:
Alaskan posted:

Thanks for the responses.

looking at projectables -

I'm a big guy 6'3" 250+( getting softer as I get older)  I Don't think he will be as big LB wise- I was 5'11 180 when I graduated HS then grew in college and a little more on the military. at 21-22 6'3" 215. but I think he may get as tall.

Grandpa was 6'2"205.

2012 Brother is 6'1 205.

2019 is 6'2 180 now after this summer of weight room. added 10 lbs. Looking forward to the return from college this winter and 5am weights.

No phones at field. period. They stay in the car. 

Not really a medical expert, but i've heard that your child's height has something to do with your wife's dad's height as well, all things being equal.

You’ve heard a tale that has been passed on and on. Genetics can come from anyone in your family tree. I have a 6’2” friend with a 5’7” brother. There’s one aunt who is taller than both parents.

i had once heard boys grow to be 6-8 inches taller than their mother. I asked our pediatrician. She said it was folklore that is more likely to be true than not true. 

I had a 12u travel basketball player with skills that went way beyond anything I had ever seen in a kid before. I figured this kid had NBA potential given his 6’2” mother. He was a large state Gatorade Player of the Year and played in the ACC. I figured he would be 6’8”. He grew to be 6’3”. His NBA dream blew up when he never completely recovered from a torn ACL. 

RJM posted:
D6L posted:
Alaskan posted:

Thanks for the responses.

looking at projectables -

I'm a big guy 6'3" 250+( getting softer as I get older)  I Don't think he will be as big LB wise- I was 5'11 180 when I graduated HS then grew in college and a little more on the military. at 21-22 6'3" 215. but I think he may get as tall.

Grandpa was 6'2"205.

2012 Brother is 6'1 205.

2019 is 6'2 180 now after this summer of weight room. added 10 lbs. Looking forward to the return from college this winter and 5am weights.

No phones at field. period. They stay in the car. 

Not really a medical expert, but i've heard that your child's height has something to do with your wife's dad's height as well, all things being equal.

You’ve heard a tale that has been passed on and on. Genetics can come from anyone in your family tree. I have a 6’2” friend with a 5’7” brother. There’s one aunt who is taller than both parents.

i had once heard boys grow to be 6-8 inches taller than their mother. I asked our pediatrician. She said it was folklore that is more likely to be true than not true. 

I had a 12u travel basketball player with skills that went way beyond anything I had ever seen in a kid before. I figured this kid had NBA potential given his 6’2” mother. He was a large state Gatorade Player of the Year and played in the ACC. I figured he would be 6’8”. He grew to be 6’3”. His NBA dream blew up when he never completely recovered from a torn ACL. 

Not sure if it's a tale, there is more validity that mother side genes supports it.

Since 2021 is already over 6'1",  ( he's hoping for 6'4" ) I think He's already a good height to add muscle & strength to his 160 lbs, which is the goal this winter.

2021 Mom's dad was 6' 225. Both sides have family shorter and taller than 6', but the avg is 6' + while most mothers are in ranges of 5'1"- 5'8" going back two or three generations.

Most of the kids seem to be bigger than parents on all sides except mine.but mine are all near the same size. Girls and boys.

Update:

We just got done with Legion and now the fall team 2021 plays on will travel down to AZ to play in Oct (AZ Senior Fall Classic) is practicing on the weekends.High School has started and basketball open gym (to which he said , I'm not playing ,just practicing..... we will see...) are going on.  I finally get to relax and do the yard work & honey-dos I sorely missed from coaching this year. 

Alaskan posted:

Since 2021 is already over 6'1",  ( he's hoping for 6'4" ) I think He's already a good height to add muscle & strength to his 160 lbs, which is the goal this winter.

2021 Mom's dad was 6' 225. Both sides have family shorter and taller than 6', but the avg is 6' + while most mothers are in ranges of 5'1"- 5'8" going back two or three generations.

Most of the kids seem to be bigger than parents on all sides except mine.but mine are all near the same size. Girls and boys.

Update:

We just got done with Legion and now the fall team 2021 plays on will travel down to AZ to play in Oct (AZ Senior Fall Classic) is practicing on the weekends.High School has started and basketball open gym (to which he said , I'm not playing ,just practicing..... we will see...) are going on.  I finally get to relax and do the yard work & honey-dos I sorely missed from coaching this year. 

Definitely you have a good size family and just eyeballing, most of your kids will be over 6', with good nutrition more inches will follow.  But some people might think because you are 6'5', they are getting your height, of course there are other factors as well.  I have a friend he is 6'8", and the doctors are projecting his son to be 6'9", there is no one in the wife's family that is remotely that tall, maybe few 6s.

Happy New Year,

Update on 2019-

He hung them up. I talked about it earlier in the summer. When he got down to his school, he liked the college experience- but the everyday "baseball" from 5am to 9pm wasn't his cup of tea. I completely understood his reasoning and knowing him probably the best outcome. Came back up for the winter, got a job and went back down to a different school in AZ this month. 

Funny thing is he threw a pen for " fun" with his little brother in Nov and broke 92. "I was just messing around"......and" I had to throw harder than my brother". Seems to be Happy as a lark with his decision. 

Update on the 2021-

He did very well at the AZ Fall Classic. Hit well, Ran well. Love the AZ heat. He topped at 88 on the FB, sat 84-86 and was up to 76 on the CB. Got to meet a number of schools from DI to junior colleges. He spoke to his "dream school" as well. Which he was super excited for.Great week overall. 

still growing and still scrawny -maybe 165 lbs.......

He stopped basketball and focused on getting better over the winter. 

Exit Velo has gone up a bit to breaking 90-92 consistently...

Next week, he'll travel down and play with a Canadian scout team in the PG MLK tournament. He is  going to see two schools in AZ (a JC and a NAIA) and stopping at one in OR (DI)and one in WA (JC) on the way back. In March,he will be traveling back to play in the AZ Pro tour with that same team. Looking forward to 60 degrees next week rather than last weeks -26 up here. 

As far as traveling out in the summer, it's not going to happen. Pretty funny to hear mom talk about that not happening. He's ok with it  knowing this is his last legion year, because of a senior summer baseball opportunity next year.

Other than updating you all every little bit,  Just happy to watch the trip....

 

 

Glad to hear things going so well for both.  Curious... how does older brother feedback of not liking baseball as being so time consuming affect younger brother's outlook?

2021 is a different beast than his brother. While 2019 would play football, basketball, track,  go hunting and fishing, 2021 would want to bring his mitt and bounce the ball off the wall, table, tree. Still does it.

He did play basketball, but stopped this year-for baseball.

From playing Strat-o-matic to OOTP on the computer, practicing, reading, baseball is a living-breathing thing to him it seems. 

2021 is the youngest and been around baseball players from HS to college his whole life. He knows that they stop at some point. His latest thing is that when he stops playing, he wants to coach and teach Math at HS or coach college ball.  

reminds me of a friend that is the head coach now at a HS. Got a chance (up to AAA) and went straight into coaching when he was released.

 

 

Alaskan posted:

Happy New Year,

Update on 2019-

He hung them up. I talked about it earlier in the summer. When he got down to his school, he liked the college experience- but the everyday "baseball" from 5am to 9pm wasn't his cup of tea. I completely understood his reasoning and knowing him probably the best outcome. Came back up for the winter, got a job and went back down to a different school in AZ this month. 

Funny thing is he threw a pen for " fun" with his little brother in Nov and broke 92. "I was just messing around"......and" I had to throw harder than my brother". Seems to be Happy as a lark with his decision. 

Update on the 2021-

He did very well at the AZ Fall Classic. Hit well, Ran well. Love the AZ heat. He topped at 88 on the FB, sat 84-86 and was up to 76 on the CB. Got to meet a number of schools from DI to junior colleges. He spoke to his "dream school" as well. Which he was super excited for.Great week overall. 

still growing and still scrawny -maybe 165 lbs.......

He stopped basketball and focused on getting better over the winter. 

Exit Velo has gone up a bit to breaking 90-92 consistently...

Next week, he'll travel down and play with a Canadian scout team in the PG MLK tournament. He is  going to see two schools in AZ (a JC and a NAIA) and stopping at one in OR (DI)and one in WA (JC) on the way back. In March,he will be traveling back to play in the AZ Pro tour with that same team. Looking forward to 60 degrees next week rather than last weeks -26 up here. 

As far as traveling out in the summer, it's not going to happen. Pretty funny to hear mom talk about that not happening. He's ok with it  knowing this is his last legion year, because of a senior summer baseball opportunity next year.

Other than updating you all every little bit,  Just happy to watch the trip....

 

 

Think this experience is really important to remember for all parties along the recruitment journey.  Unless you are the rare caliber player that is truly looking to go pro, always have the school you go to be a priority.  My oldest (different sport) hung them up relatively quickly after living through the demands of being a D1 athlete.  It's absolutely weighed in on how we go through the process with our 2021.  Have to pressure test the assumptions, the journey is so long sometimes it's tough to consider that once the student gets there, it may not be what they anticipated.  For example...it's tough to see other college kids being normal college kids and you having to grind away. What if they dont start for 2 years, will they still be as enthusiastic?  All matters to consider when choosing a school.  Do your best to make sure the school is the one you want to go to. 

 

"Unless you are the rare caliber player that is truly looking to go pro, always have the school you go to be a priority."

I disagree with this conclusion. If you are a player looking to go pro PLUS have a projectable MLB tool, you will be found anywhere. Your college choice is irrelevant.

The attached photo shows scouts and exec's from all 30 teams watching the baseball powerhouses of Cornell and Princeton play in 2014.

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Last edited by Goosegg
Goosegg posted:

"Unless you are the rare caliber player that is truly looking to go pro, always have the school you go to be a priority."

I disagree with this conclusion. If you are a player looking to go pro PLUS have a projectable MLB tool, you will be found anywhere. Your college choice is irrelevant.

Yes.  And for everyone else, which is practically EVERYONE else, consider if you'll be happy at the school you are committing to if the sport goes away. 

Goosegg posted:

"Unless you are the rare caliber player that is truly looking to go pro, always have the school you go to be a priority."

I disagree with this conclusion. If you are a player looking to go pro PLUS have a projectable MLB tool, you will be found anywhere. Your college choice is irrelevant.

The attached photo shows scouts and exec's from all 30 teams watching the baseball powerhouses of Cornell and Princeton play in 2014.

BTW, think we are coming at it from two different points.  100% agree talent can and will be found anywhere.   I'm saying for almost any caliber player beyond upper level/5 star, the school you go to should be your priority from an academic/life fulfillment perspective.  

I hear everyone on this board say that, but even if it is a great school for the kid how many kids would transfer if they couldn’t play and try to play somewhere else? I know 100% the school my son chose is a great school for him, but if he was not able to play there, I know he would transfer to another school so he could.

baseballhs posted:

I hear everyone on this board say that, but even if it is a great school for the kid how many kids would transfer if they couldn’t play and try to play somewhere else? I know 100% the school my son chose is a great school for him, but if he was not able to play there, I know he would transfer to another school so he could.

Certainly possible, but transferring isn't a walk in the park.  These are young kids, even if they are more focused/mature than others their age.  They get used to settings, friends, etc.  It's a difficult decision. My older had a chance to transfer given his grades, and opted to stay where he was as he was happy outside of the sport.  

"I'm saying for almost any caliber player beyond upper level/5 star, the school you go to should be your priority from an academic/life fulfillment perspective."

We clearly agree about academic/40 year priority. But, I'm even broader: the school you go to should be your priority from an academic/life fulfillment perspective - regardless of whether you're an tippy top tier player.

My son lost his starting job every year for his first three years; literally played himself off the travel roster his junior year; became - for those three years  - the 15th pitcher in a 12 man rotation. He never gave transferring a thought (though, after his first year, I had a bout of temporary insanity as I explored the possibility.)

But, to be sure, while we can utter the words "pick the right school," only afterwards, with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight, do we know what that really means. At the beginning of the process it's flying blind, trying to identify, isolate, and weigh variables and extrapolate all that onto a teenager and devining effects which go on longer than he has been alive! It's far easier for me to opine today, than while he (and we) were going through the process.

Last edited by Goosegg
Goosegg posted:

"I'm saying for almost any caliber player beyond upper level/5 star, the school you go to should be your priority from an academic/life fulfillment perspective."

We clearly agree about academic/40 year priority. But, I'm even broader: the school you go to should be your priority from an academic/life fulfillment perspective - regardless of whether you're an tippy top tier player.

My son lost his starting job every year for his first three years; literally played himself off the travel roster his junior year; became - for those three years  - the 15th pitcher in a 12 man rotation. He never gave transferring a thought (though, after his first year, I had a bout of temporary insanity as I explored the possibility.)

But, to be sure, while we can utter the words "pick the right school," only afterwards, with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight, do we know what that really means. At the beginning of the process it's flying blind, trying to identify, isolate, and weigh variables and extrapolate all that onto a teenager and devining effects which go on longer than he has been alive! It's far easier for me to opine today, than while he (and we) were going through the process.

haha agreed on all.  I suppose that's how we ended up here on this site!  Everyone trying to help everyone navigate what is perhaps unnaivgable.  Still, appreciate the support, emotional above all.  

Goosegg posted:

"Unless you are the rare caliber player that is truly looking to go pro, always have the school you go to be a priority."

I disagree with this conclusion. If you are a player looking to go pro PLUS have a projectable MLB tool, you will be found anywhere. Your college choice is irrelevant.

The attached photo shows scouts and exec's from all 30 teams watching the baseball powerhouses of Cornell and Princeton play in 2014.

Goosegg - LOL!   I remember it like it was yesterday!  Your son pitched a whale of a game with double digit strikeouts going 8 or 9 innings.  He was throwing heat and had his pitches working that day.  Our starter was throwing heat as well.   It went 13 or 14 innings.  My son was going to start the next game, but the coach put him to close this one when we scored late.  It was the only game my son ever closed in his college career, and his last appearance.

wow- lots of info.

Regardless, I'm happy my 2019 is happy.

I would have been concerned if he was unhappy and doing baseball and hated it, or was doing it because of what someone thought that was what he was supposed to do. It didn't affect him financially  other than a plane flight and 3 months. He gave it a try, and figured it out. The Head Coach there actually thanked him and told him he respected his decision even though they did not want him to leave. They had lost 5-6 players who just left... no words, just said they were out...That coach is recruiting the 2021 now. 

I realized his mid junior year that this was likely to happen and spoke about it on here. A number of guys on here said what was likely to happen and gave advice.....it helped alot with helping him. Because thats what it's about. Helping him.

That's what your college years are about. Figuring it out. How many start after one degree and end up with another.

He got accepted to the college he wanted to go to- ( they don't have a baseball program) after trying "college baseball" out and is having a good time living his life.... 

Update:

Very proud to report 2021 has received 5 offers from everything from CC's to a D1 in the Pac 12. 

He had a great time and performed very well at the MLK tournament in AZ, followed up with visits in WA and OR.  He attended a prospect camp, absolutely crushed it, ran a 4.19 to 1st, threw FB 88,sat 86-85,CB 76-78, Exit Velo on the rapsodo at 92 and received the offer the very next day at the D1. 

Now the real process begins, I guess....

It has been a very surreal 10 days....

 

Last edited by Alaskan

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