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Geez, that sounds familiar! I know I’ve seen that message on HSBBW before. Many times actually. Who is it that says that all the time only to get responses to the contrary? Oh yeah…..that would be me!!!!
Of course that’s true…. However 
the metrics outliers are gonna get a much, much longer leash than the average athletes. Throw 95+ and somebody somewhere, including in pro ball, is going to continue to think they can teach you to throw strikes. The kid that runs 6.3 60’s will at the very least get a ton of chances to prove they can hit, and will be used as a pinch runner and defensively.
The 7.1 runner who starts out the season 0 for 12? It’s “adios, Sam.”
The kid that throws 82 and gets shelled in Game 1 might not get a Game 2
Actually it means that you'll at least get a look from college and pro coaches - actually lots of looks. See Vince Velazquez among many others. Without those velo showcase numbers college coaches don't even consider you - so it means something, but your mind probably won't change anyway.
Dads love to get reassurances that their kid, the average athlete, will “get a chance.”
@2019&21 Dad posted:Actually it means that you'll at least get a look from college and pro coaches - actually lots of looks. See Vince Velazquez among many others. Without those velo showcase numbers college coaches don't even consider you - so it means something, but your mind probably won't change anyway.
It only means something if you can do it in game competition. If you can, it means a lot. If you can’t it literally means nothing. Lots of kids produce showcase numbers that they can’t replicate in a game. Good coaches know that and they don’t need to see numbers to know if a kid throws hard, runs fast, or hits the ball the ball hard. They see and hear that with their own eyes and ears. So, no I won’t be changing my mind. Way too many people are chasing numbers and drinking the PG Kool-Aid. It’s been that way for years. I have been thru this myself as a Dad with 2 of my sons. Now I attend showcase events to scout/recruit and network with coaches. The things I post are a combination of my own perspective along with that of other coaches and players that I know. I’m telling you (again) that showcase numbers are vastly over-rated by players and parents that are trying to be recruited. But you can believe whatever you want.
Eh, I think we're trying too hard here to simplify what is a VERY complex concept. When viewed through one particular lens, literally everyone here is right about this. It comes down to how you interpret the statement. What exactly does it mean when it says "in competition"? In high school competition? When someone is watching? Once you get to college ball? Over the course of a game? A tourney? A whole season? There are different "right" answers depending on the sample size you choose.
We've all read the stories where a coach recounts watching a recruit play in a game where he went 0-4 at the plate with 3 Ks or whatever, but then offers the kid after that game. That coach wasn't concerned about the 0-4 stat line so much as he was about the context around it and all the nuances of the player and that particular game.
I think we can all agree that the length of time you get to play the game (at the macro level) is ultimately determined by your production. Further, monstrous measurables delivered at showcases don't have the power to extend you playing the game for very long. They might net you some things at the micro level, but not much more than that.
Showcase talent will only get one so far. C pop time 1.85 is fast but is it on the bag to even get a chance at a tag on the runner? BP hitter looks good and can mash with moon shots but can they hit in a game? IMO...Games are where you need to evaluate a player! I want the C who pops 2.0 on the bag and I want the hitter who can produce in a game!
@adbono said "showcase numbers are vastly over-rated by players and parents that are trying to be recruited."
I'd hope literally everyone would agree with that statement. The fact of the matter is, the recruiting process is so intricate and wholly unique to each individual, that performing in competition (when it matters most) is the closest thing there is a to "magic bullet." Players and parents - less so for those who read HSBBW - feel lost and not in control of the recruiting process, so they're eager to grab ahold of anything TANGIBLE they can get their hands on. For most, showcase measurables feel tangible and safe until they unavoidably become wiser down the road when reality sets in. PG and friends keyed in on their naivety and ignorance and worked tirelessly to feed their desired narrative that measurables are a big deal.
I've shared this story with adbono in a PM before, but it's worth sharing with the group. On my 2021's visit to the JUCO he committed to, we were walked through their facilities. The HC points out a couple Rapsado or Trackman units (I don't remember exactly what they were and I don't care). He says (I'm paraphrasing) "we have them but we don't use them a whole lot. I don't need to hook your son up to a machine to know that his throws have carry or that he has a good spin rate. Real coaches have been identifying all that stuff with their eyes for years and years." And this coach isn't some 80 year old luddite. He's still in his 30s and is the winningest coach the program has ever had.
@DanJ posted:. He's still in his 30s…
So: a young man shouting at clouds? Cool!
Well said DanJ
Yes everyone says it….as recruiters chase velo numbers, size and speed numbers.
Here we go again:
https://community.hsbaseballwe...but-show-no-results?
@DanJ posted:For most, showcase measurables feel tangible and safe until they unavoidably become wiser down the road when reality sets in.
I speak for naive parents who didn't know anything, and I'd say the opposite. For many, what they know is that their son is the best player on his HS team, one of the best on his travel team, he really knows the game, always performs well, is a grinder, a gamer, etc. Reality sets in when that isn't enough.
One of the things I read on here, that made it all make sense to me, is that the higher the level, the faster the game is in every aspect. So it's not about how well you do against current competition, it's about how well it will translate to a higher level.
My son had a “stud” travel teammate eleven years ago who signed with a top ranked college program. The father had left no dollar unspent having the kid trained to the metrics. His college coach, one I’m sure everyone here respects said he would likely turn out to be one of his greatest recruits ever. The kid was a physical specimen and had awesome metrics. But, given the players that have come through this college program I was surprised by the hyperbole.
I coached the stud in travel for three years from 13u to 16u. I watched him for two years as a 17u teammate of my son. I didn’t get it. He had a weak temperament. He rattled easily when things went poorly. One of the stud’s high school teammates became good friends with my son. They were all on the same 17u team for two years. In confidence the high school teammate told me in high school games the stud did what I saw for five years in travel. He shredded mediocre pitching and was challenged by top pitching.
After losing a travel game by a run my son privately joked, “Gilligan, little buddy you’ve done it again.” My son referred to the stud as Gilligan and second base as an island. The stud stranded my son there twice that game. My son had been stranded on base with the stud at bat enough he also privately referred to him as LOB.
The stud got to his highly ranked college team. Three years in a row he was an opening day starter. All three years he lost his position by the start of conference play. You may have the physical attributes and all the metrics. But ultimately you have to show something on the field.
Totally agree but you can’t get there without the numbers
If an athlete can throw a football 100 yards does that make him a great quarterback prospect? Would anyone that knows anything automatically think so? Baseball is no different - change my mind.
Metrics and numbers are a defensible crutch that coaches can use, or trust their eyes or both. Depending on the context of the recruit and the situation, if I was a Coach I'd probably use both and get a second opinion from another coach. Recruiting is the life blood of business, sports, etc... Mistakes are made everyday but the best programs (like those in the CWS) make less recruiting mistakes than their counterparts.... JMO.
When ur "Big State U" you have a lot of players to choose from and most likely will miss less than the smaller school.
“My kid runs a 7.3 60 and throws 82 across the infield. He just went 4 for 6 in a really big Perfect Game podunk Tournament in Nowheresville, Fly Over Country against a couple of D1 commits. I’m going to go on the Internet and get some affirmation from like minded people that metrics aren’t that important.”
It’s possible to not have great metrics and still be a very good player. It’s also possible to have great metrics and not be a good player at all.