Chicago Catholic League Baseball Over Rated?

No you are not

I think they have alot of talent. But also too much hype .Our local paper still has 2 catholic schools ranked above us and we beat both in regular season and we have made final 4 while there seasons are over. I know my son would rather have they memories of doing well in the state playoffs then being highly ranked or press clippings . From what Ive seen this year many D1 kids are more potential then current talent---many of the best highschool pitchers are not D1--not throwing 88mph + but 80-85 movement , location, change of speeds, experienced and smart--not trying to burn it by everyone but have learned to pitch--remember I said many not all

I think you're right about most of the kids preferring a deep run in the play-offs, not so sure about alot of the parents who have their kids enrolled in these schools specifically to play baseball. I think there's alot of talent at many of these Catholic schools and much of the blame for not winning the big one has to come down to a combination of lack of luck and coaches who just don't know how to get the most out of the individual talent they have been rewarded with. Maybe they put too much effort into winning the conference so that there's nothing left emotionally for these kids to get up for once the play-offs begin.

I'm going to have to disagree with You here. First off, in the last 3 of 4 years, a Chicago Catholic Blue team was in the state championship (St.Rita 2009,2010/Providence 2011) Even though both Rita and Provi lost in the state finals, I still think it shows that some of the best baseball in the state of Illinois is played in the CCL. I played Division 1, I played professionally and I coach a junior college program, so I feel that I know the game of baseball pretty well. I'm just speaking for the Catholic League here, but the better Catholic schools run their programs like college programs and they schedule the best nonconference games they can. What better way for a kid to develop and move on to the next level? Which in my opinion is the whole point of high school baseball. And the Catholic leasgue does, just like many other conferences in the state of Illinois, move many of its players on to college programs, many with scholarships. Because just as I have learned first hand, a diploma is a great thing to have when your playing days come to end.

Hi,the only point I was trying to make and in some ways you help me make my point by your comments is that when you evaluate the talent by position, coaching, education and the way the CCL schools run their program as you point out like college programs it just seems that by sheer accident or luck they wouldn't just show up in the finals they would of won at last one of the state finals over the past few years. Something doesn't add up. Again my opinion only and as I stated in my original post I'm not trying to bash the league or coaches just pondering why they can't win. Again my opionion either there is so much emphasis on winning the CCL title there's nothing left emotionally to get up for, the coaches aren't pushing the right button or the talent isn't as great as everyone believes. Also, factor in the point that many of these top notch programs find ways around the rules to recruit players from across an entire area and seemingly practice and play together year round. To me there not having won a title in recent memory is a real head scratcher.

Good morning,dr. I agree with You that a state title
should have been won by a CCL school. St.Rita would have won in 2010, but we faced Naperville Central and their best pitcher, who coincidentally had just transferred there from Rita over the summer. Thats a whole other topic that I don't wish to rehash here. What Your saying about putting too much emphasis on winning the CCL title isn't true, atleast where I played. I played on varsity all 4 years and winning the CCL title was a goal, sure; but not a priority. A state title was always our goal. The furthest we made it was a super sectional my senior year and we needed a 7 run inning in the bottom of the 7th of the regional semifinal or we would have been gone early. And my junior year we were ranked somthing like 8th in the county, and lost in the regional finals. That team was definetly over rated. One thing I do have a problem with is how many pitchers at CCL schools throw WAY too many innings without proper rest. As we all know, that's a sure fire way to ruin a kids arm and I'm not going to mention any names or schools, but come playoff time, a few CCL coaches have no problem throwing kid 1 day after he just threw 120 pitches. That is one of my biggest pet peeves. And I agree with You about the recruitment, CCL schools do have, I believe, a 30 mile radius to recruit from? But the IHSA surely makes up for it with their "multilplier" rule. But in closing, I do feel a state title coming the way of the CCL. Have a good day my friend.

Hi Carl,

Nice conversation and enjoyed the back and forth. By the way over using pitchers isn't just a CCL issue. Way too many examples of coaches over using their pitchers to win games. At times I really think the IHSA or some association needs to step in and limit pitches or innings pitched to help prevent injuries which can kill a kids college dream before he even has a chance to live it.

Have a good day.

OMG- wish I could of addressed this years ago - the catholic league failures is all about the head coach - old saint Rita mom - Zunica has never had the ability to develop team chemistry - he picks his favorite 8 - stays with them and then his team loses its all about " the bench" what a farce- I've had sons that have played, been cut, and of course not played- he fixes stats, glorifies 1 player a year and loses because of his defending the undergrad player that doesn't belong - very sad- nice man off the field - total idiot in the field - feel horrible for the talented devoted players that were never given a chance- just look at the results-

The Catholic League, in my humble opinion, is overrated, but not for the reasons the dr. lists. The true test of a team is getting to the state finals, not necessarily winning it. IT IS ONE GAME!!!!! Rather getting there requires a deep staff, probably a nice seed(earned throughout the season) and some deft coaching. In that regard,the CCL has done well. Just because they have not been victorious in a final game, which often amounts to little better than a coin flip (just look at percentages in baseball)does not mean they are not talented.


The reason they are overrated lies solely in the lofty ratings they do get from the publications. Yes there is talent there, but the league is treated as if they are pros. So, when they run into some top programs from the suburbs, they are often handed their lunches and the rest of the public breathes a sigh of relief and satisfaction.

Blame the rankings, not the athletes

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Welcome to the HSBBW Basebasllmommax5. That was quite an initial post!



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Can't really say too much about Zunica at Rita as I never had any kids in the program however he has helped guide his team to a fair share of controversy and emabarrassing situations in the past few years.

Regarding the other comment not sure if I agree with 100% of the comments. I do agree that the rankings are out of whack often based more on reputation than actual ability. However, I do think that based on all the legitimate D1 talent at Providence over the last two years and St Rita the two years prior getting to the finals should almost have been a given and anything less than winning it all was an upset.

the scouts know where to look for kids..when you send your kid to a providence you know that kid IF good will get an opportunity to be looked at by d1 scouts etc etc..the scouts know these programs are traditionally good and that alot of parents send their athletic stud kids there JUST for that reason.

It's comical how you can make ... posts with a straight face.


Edited by CoachB25

quote:

Originally posted by biggerpapi:
It's comical how you can make all of these ridiculous posts with a straight face.

its ok..I guess you dont know to much about the local schools huh? you want your kids to get seen more you send them to mt carmel etc..why do you think they are loaded with talent?..But hey you are a typical know it all..look at the commits from a providence or a mt carmel and then look at them from a glenbard east..where does the talent flow and why? ...

funny how at the stevenson i overheard the scouts say are there anymore kids from new trier we can look at? scouts like certain "programs" over others...

Edited by CoachB25

I want to keep away from the negativity but want to comment that I disagree with the post about college coaches coming out to look at kids from the Catholic schools during the season. With small staffs and small travel budgets plus balancing college conference games it's hard to get college coaches to come out to high school games unless they happen to be playing in the area or there's a really special kid playing. Most recruiting takes place in the summer during travel season and in the winter at college camps and select show cases. I think parents choose to send their kids to St. Laurence, Providence, St. Rita, etc, due to coaching, resources ie, the ability to somehow stretch the rules in terms of off season team practice and the willingness and reputation that the Catholic school coaches are more willing to pick up the phone and call a college coach to talk up their son than most of the public league coaches do and lastly they send them to the Catholic league schools for the education. Back to the thought of the original post I still think there's a crazy amount of talent at the top Catholic schools and something isn't adding up whether it's coaching or over estimating the level of talent that has prevented them from winning a title at the 4A level over the past several years. To me something more than plain bad luck has contributed to their not being able to win a title over the past several years and would like to know if anyone else has an opinion.

I have edited posts in this thread and have deleted some posts. biggerpapi and wogdoggy, you are both good guys. You don't see eye to eye on this and that is fine. However, the name calling crossed the line as did some of the rhetoric. So, please continue on topic and without the other "stuff."

dr9961, the CCL is a tremendous league. However to say that they should have won more is to say that there aren't comparable leagues out there. Good baseball is played throughout the state. There are years where downstate competition is every bit as good as the CCL although I'm sure most won't admit that. I will admit that those leagues aren't consistently as good year in and year out as the CCL. There are also years where a particular program has built a team that is historical for that school/program. That often then turns into a state championship. I have been fortunate to coach (assistant) two state championship teams and a state runner up. All three of those teams entered state tournament play with remarks of "overrated" and were the underdog to teams we played in the championship game. That despite one team being undefeated at the time and finishing undefeated (40-0) in 1998. One of those team won 64 games in a row and were not the favorite. They did lose in the championship game. So, I don't think that there is ever a given when it comes to what team or league will win state championships. That is a part of the fun of it. JMHO!

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:
I have edited posts in this thread and have deleted some posts. biggerpapi and wogdoggy, you are both good guys. You don't see eye to eye on this and that is fine. However, the name calling crossed the line as did some of the rhetoric. So, please continue on topic and without the other "stuff."

My apologies.

Coach B- You guys were 40-0 and were not the favorites in a particular game? Who were you playing the `27 Yankees? C'mon...

quote:

Originally posted by ripcord51:
Coach B- You guys were 40-0 and were not the favorites in a particular game? Who were you playing the `27 Yankees? C'mon...

ripcord, like a lot of teams from downstate, people up north question the level of competition we play. The media wrote several articles but seemed to suggest that that team in 98 had not been truly tested. That program I coached in back then played all of the power programs in St. Louis and so that is some steep competition. Plus the conference that they play in is pretty tough as well. The media up North is always well acquainted with the talent on northern teams and who is going where to college. That team in 98 didn't have a bunch of players going to big times schools and didn't have players getting drafted. Still, they were a true team and so, were tough to beat. I think some others on this site remember that team from back then. No big names but a lot of great kids who played hard.