This was posted on norcalpreps by the CIF
"The NFHS waiver list of Approved BESR-ABI Composite Baseball Bats have been approved for use in CIF for the 2010-11 season. After this season, 2010-11, these bats will not be approved for play."
Edited to add - the CIF has updated their website which makes it clear now, before it was confusing the way it was written.
www.cifstate.org
Thanks for the link WT.
The Southern Section web site has no information on it. I assume they will catch up next week.
If I read this correctly they are approving some composite BESR bats, but not aluminum. This is insane, so this means that umpires are going to have to carry around a list of approved bats by manufacturer and model and check them prior to each game against their list.
I am all for the change, but they should sychronize it with the rest of the country. Gota love the Peoples Republic of California.
The Southern Section web site has no information on it. I assume they will catch up next week.
If I read this correctly they are approving some composite BESR bats, but not aluminum. This is insane, so this means that umpires are going to have to carry around a list of approved bats by manufacturer and model and check them prior to each game against their list.
I am all for the change, but they should sychronize it with the rest of the country. Gota love the Peoples Republic of California.
My son's HS team used a Demarini Vexxum BBCOR bat today in a winter league game for the first time...it was pretty ugly! They had three or four hits in a regular seven inning game, and only one ball was hit solidly. According to my son, the bat felt top heavy. It appears that he'll have to swing a few BBCOR bats to determine what's comfortable?
I attended a couple D1 Fall college scrimmages in October and it was obvious the game would be different this year. After today's HS game, there's no doubt that scoring will be lacking, not to mention power numbers across the board. Strong defense and pitching will be even more of a premium than ever before...it should be an interesting season.
I attended a couple D1 Fall college scrimmages in October and it was obvious the game would be different this year. After today's HS game, there's no doubt that scoring will be lacking, not to mention power numbers across the board. Strong defense and pitching will be even more of a premium than ever before...it should be an interesting season.
I still think it makes absolutely no sense for CIF to grandfather in some BESR/ABI composite bats if they can theoretically perform as well as a BESR aluminum bat. CIF is supposed to be emulating the NCAA requirement this year and NCAA does not allow these waivered bats. The waiver was intended only to allow certain BESR composites for NHFS (non-california schools) this year. I think CIF either totally misunderstood the concept, or someone in CIF has a kid swinging a CF4. Or maybe they made a deal with the bat manufacturers to try to get rid of the remaining stock.
bsbl247 - every kid in California will try and get one of those bats on the waiver list. I wonder how many will actually use bbcor bats?
So according to the bat rules published by CIF, "Effective beginning the 2010-11 school year, composite bats shall be illegal until meeting the standards of 1-3-2(e)" Standard 1-3-2(e) is the BBCOR standard, NOT the BESR/ABI waiver standard.
http://www.cifstate.org/sports...20changes%201011.pdf
I emailed the baseball rules interpreter listed on the CIF site to see if they would provide a clarification. Apologies to any CF4 or B2 owners, but this needs to be settled before the season starts.
http://www.cifstate.org/sports...20changes%201011.pdf
I emailed the baseball rules interpreter listed on the CIF site to see if they would provide a clarification. Apologies to any CF4 or B2 owners, but this needs to be settled before the season starts.
warningtrack- You're probably right regarding the waiver list...my son is asking for a new BBCOR now to get prepared for the season. Unfortunately he's going to have to wait until everything is etched in stone. His college swings the Demarini BBCOR's, so that's probably the road we'll take? However, if as you said, others take advantage of the bats on the waiver list, I may have to reconsider?
Cutter Dad-
Cutter Dad-
The CIF has clearly stated on their website that the waiver bats WILL be allowed for the 2011 season.
www.cifstate.org
In addition, below is a link to the NFHS waiver list of non-wood bats that have been approved for use in CIF for the 2010-11 season. After this season, 2010-11 these bats will not be approved for play.
NFHS Approved BESR-ABI Composite Baseball Bats - Approved for Waiver
http://www.nfhs.org/content.aspx?id=4155
www.cifstate.org
In addition, below is a link to the NFHS waiver list of non-wood bats that have been approved for use in CIF for the 2010-11 season. After this season, 2010-11 these bats will not be approved for play.
NFHS Approved BESR-ABI Composite Baseball Bats - Approved for Waiver
http://www.nfhs.org/content.aspx?id=4155
I also confirmed over the phone with CIF that the waiver list bats are approved. They have posted a Q&A for clarification.
http://www.cifstate.org/sports...BaseballBatQandA.pdf
They seem to understand the implications, however, their rationale was that it was some sort of compromise as a result of the settlement with AB7 and the rushed implementation of the standard. They indicated that the umpires would be advised of which bats would be legal. Although I don't agree, at least I know where to start now.
http://www.cifstate.org/sports...BaseballBatQandA.pdf
They seem to understand the implications, however, their rationale was that it was some sort of compromise as a result of the settlement with AB7 and the rushed implementation of the standard. They indicated that the umpires would be advised of which bats would be legal. Although I don't agree, at least I know where to start now.
Great stuff Cutter Dad, thanks.
I still don't get the waivers for some composite bats. Very strange indeed.
I still don't get the waivers for some composite bats. Very strange indeed.
Does anyone know if the Demarini composite wood bats are BESR? I can't seem to find this info online.
I've seen the BBCOR mark on them at a sports Chalet store
I guess, based on the new Q&A page, that the BBCOR Composite bats will not need the tamper proof ABI labels for them to be legal past 2011.
http://www.cifstate.org/sports...BaseballBatQandA.pdf
http://www.cifstate.org/sports...BaseballBatQandA.pdf
One other thing. The DeMarini VooDoo does "break-in".
My son has been using his BBCOR VooDoo now for a little over a month in BP and lessons and last night he was hitting with it and the added POP was noticeable. I asked him and he agreed that it had a bit more pop.
This ties in with a conversation with a college coach and he said it seemed like the wood bats have more pop. I think the BBCOR bats have to be broken-in to get them a little hotter.
My son has been using his BBCOR VooDoo now for a little over a month in BP and lessons and last night he was hitting with it and the added POP was noticeable. I asked him and he agreed that it had a bit more pop.
This ties in with a conversation with a college coach and he said it seemed like the wood bats have more pop. I think the BBCOR bats have to be broken-in to get them a little hotter.
Ok, has CIF determined if the BBCOR bats are "readily availble" to all California players? I know I've visited 2 Sports Authorities / Sports Chalets and neither have had the Easton Surge. I've seen the Voodoo but from what I've read it might not be the right choice. Also, if all other players/parents are waiting until a final decision comes down will there be 10,000 bats to go around?
The decision has been made. The answers are here;
http://www.cifstate.org/sports...BaseballBatQandA.pdf
I would imagine most kids will get bats on the waiver list. They are all better than BBCOR. Next year when BBCOR is mandatory per NFHS the second generation BBCOR bats will be available and should be better than the ones out now. Just my thoughts.....
The CF4 must be selling like crazy right now!
http://www.cifstate.org/sports...BaseballBatQandA.pdf
I would imagine most kids will get bats on the waiver list. They are all better than BBCOR. Next year when BBCOR is mandatory per NFHS the second generation BBCOR bats will be available and should be better than the ones out now. Just my thoughts.....
The CF4 must be selling like crazy right now!
quote:Originally posted by warningtrack:
The CF4 must be selling like crazy right now!
I'm not going to lay down $400 for a CF4 or any other bat on the waiver list for ONLY three months of HS baseball...But fortunately my son's HS coach is going to order a few CF4's. It's nice being part of a program that's not in the Red.
Let me throw out a question.....if someone in CIF this year has a monster year, is the first question going to be "DID HE USE THE BESR CF4"? Will it be held against him, like it was the bat and not his ability?
Very good question. The rest of the country will be using BESR bats and my guess is that most of the California kids will be using the CF4 or waiver list bats. With that said it's a pretty level playing field when comparing kids to everyone else.
The CIF has put the kids in this position. Why hold it against the kids? I would of rather seen all BBCOR or go with the NFHS until 2012. Then this question would have never been raised.
The CIF has put the kids in this position. Why hold it against the kids? I would of rather seen all BBCOR or go with the NFHS until 2012. Then this question would have never been raised.