lhpmom
in this situation you describe,it would be a glorified rec team. which may be ok if it was for freshman, and free. around here you'd wait 2 months and play babe ruth.
The fifty freshmen I understand if it's a large high school. If there are 25-35 travel players in a school it's over four grades. Any one can play travel. There are bad teams through 16U. There are plenty of travel players who will never play varsity. It will be more about talent level than roster spots. I would say last year our high school program had at least fifteen players who played travel that aren't likely to ever make varsity.
This does sound like a unique situation for SoCal, RIGHT NOW!! As we know California is known for starting things that others in the country pick up on, like stricter emissions for automobiles etc. There may not be many teams to play in the immediate future but 5 to 10 years from now this could spread throughout the baseball hotbeds. I have to agree with Doughnutman that this becoming the norm and stripping the best players out of high school is a real possibility down the road. It will be a sad day when it happens too.
As far as how it works for freshman at the local high school my son will attend next year, 95% of the kids will have played some form of travel ball. The JV team is strictly for Sophomores and select freshman. Coach's policy is if you can't make Varsity as a Junior then you are taking up a spot on JV for a player that most likely will. He does not hesitate to pull up JV kids to play varsity or Freshman to play on JV. In NH you ARE playing the best kids in the area when playing on a school team. RJM is correct that Freshman tryouts is where most rec players dreams come to die...several travel players as well. They still have Babe Ruth and Legion ball to play over the summer if not some type of travel ball. Their "student athlete" days may be over but their playing baseball days are not.
The talent level overall in NH is obviously not the same as it is in baseball hotbeds so all the top talent (unless for acedemic or disciplinary issues) play for their schools.
As far as how it works for freshman at the local high school my son will attend next year, 95% of the kids will have played some form of travel ball. The JV team is strictly for Sophomores and select freshman. Coach's policy is if you can't make Varsity as a Junior then you are taking up a spot on JV for a player that most likely will. He does not hesitate to pull up JV kids to play varsity or Freshman to play on JV. In NH you ARE playing the best kids in the area when playing on a school team. RJM is correct that Freshman tryouts is where most rec players dreams come to die...several travel players as well. They still have Babe Ruth and Legion ball to play over the summer if not some type of travel ball. Their "student athlete" days may be over but their playing baseball days are not.
The talent level overall in NH is obviously not the same as it is in baseball hotbeds so all the top talent (unless for acedemic or disciplinary issues) play for their schools.
quote:Originally posted by infielddad:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by dswann:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by infielddad:
By the word "cull" would we be talking about "recruiting?" So, by advocating for "choices," would we also then be advocating in favor of "recruiting" for 14-17 year olds?
Bob Howdeshell started the HSBBW. The HSBBW has become a baseball community with a common bond at it's core...high school baseball.I don't dismiss that value or underestimate these bonds and community. If I compare and contrast, it is far more important to be playing high school baseball,to be with my peers, to be part of my high school community.
Being "culled" as a "stud" by Mr. Spiers is a value I don't endorse as it seems to be largely about "I" and nothing about "team" when the latter is what sports should be about at those ages, in my view.
Yes. My niece was culled/recruited by the U.S Rowing as a rower. And yes she left her HS team to fully exploite the opportunity that was afforded. Did she miss her HS team, certainly. However two things happened. 1. She found a new team. 2. A spot opened up in the boat. Would it be safe to assume if this was your daughter you would have her forgo this experience for the sake of her HS experience?
Your preaching to the choir... For every kid that signs up for a Mr. Spiers type program, opens a spot for a kid on the roster. My sons HS has 55 kids trying for a freshman team, 45 trying out for J.V and 40 trying out for Varsity. For a total of 140 kids for 60 maybe 65 spots. I would love to see 2 freshman teams,2 J.V teams and 2 Varsity teams, but it's not going to happen. Programs like Mr Spiers no matter how distastesful, offer a viable solution to kids who want to play on their terms and to others who would not have the chance. I want a 140 kids to experience HS baseball
I want the "I / Me" guy to move on ,if he doesn't get it by the time he gets to HS, he's not going to get it period. I am skeptical on whether or not the "I / Me" guys place any value on " team" anyway. If the stud player likes the team concept he'll stay with his peers, if not he'll move on. Or here's a thought, possibly the HS team is full of " I / Me" guys and a player wants the comraderie of a team.
Choices and options are never a bad thing
I have told people that this was coming. Too many parents are seeing the benefit of club teams in the summer and fall and compare with their HS teams.
Too many HS coaches do not allow their kids to take lessons or play for outside coaches. My kids have gone through this for years and have benefitted by playing on different summer and fall teams. I still believe it is important to play for your HS spring team.
Too many HS coaches do not allow their kids to take lessons or play for outside coaches. My kids have gone through this for years and have benefitted by playing on different summer and fall teams. I still believe it is important to play for your HS spring team.
quote:Originally posted by bbking:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by justbaseball:
Even the "idiots" we've run across in HS and travel ball get this part right 99% of the time within the first 5 or 6 games.
QUOTE]
That's great, then they have 5-6 games to prove they are not "idiots". BTW, if you like to call out "idiot" parents, You should let people call out the "idiots" coaches. It goes both ways.
I have nothing against our HS coaches because my son haven't officially made the team yet. I am just a little bit worried after I saw the incoming freshman team talent. I give the coaching the benefit of doubt. I will know whether if they are "idiots" or not after the try out and you know the answer.
If my son made the V/JV, they are smart and good coaches with good eye in ID the talent. I am the "idiots" for making this comments.
If my son have to play with the freshman team, you know IMHO they are totally "idiots", I will not waste 4 years in the HS. Is that fair enough?
bbkong...WHAT THE HELL...????
I would just offer 2 opinions:
1. This may be a furtherance of limiting opportunities for kids that are unable to afford the showcase route. As it stands right now, they are financially challenged to compete because they can't afford the travel ball costs. That could be mitigated by a play for free situation. They still have to find transportation to wherever these teams practice/play. A few break through here and there, because they have extreme talent. The MLB is trying to reach out in their direction with the RBI program.
2. This should enable showcases to now operate in a new part of the year, because missing a weekend of "club" ball to attend a showcase will be allowable vs. issues with missing a high school game.
Nothing we can do but stand by and see where this all goes.
1. This may be a furtherance of limiting opportunities for kids that are unable to afford the showcase route. As it stands right now, they are financially challenged to compete because they can't afford the travel ball costs. That could be mitigated by a play for free situation. They still have to find transportation to wherever these teams practice/play. A few break through here and there, because they have extreme talent. The MLB is trying to reach out in their direction with the RBI program.
2. This should enable showcases to now operate in a new part of the year, because missing a weekend of "club" ball to attend a showcase will be allowable vs. issues with missing a high school game.
Nothing we can do but stand by and see where this all goes.
quote:Originally posted by 20dad:
lhpmom
in this situation you describe,it would be a glorified rec team. which may be ok if it was for freshman, and free. around here you'd wait 2 months and play babe ruth.
20dad:
Having played travel ball does not mean squat once kids hit puberty. The athletes rise to the top regardless of where they came from. TB gives some kids a head start but by the Sr season the athletes take over. Little Johnny travel ball is over on the bench crying his eyes out with Mommy and Daddy right behind him. Now go away and play for Mike Spears and SHUT UP. All of these whiney stories about this or that coach make me sick. Get a life people, adversity happens deal with it.
If you think not playing HS baseball will solve it you are clueless. Same thing is going to happen on the "travel circuit" BLA BLA BLA this coach did this, that coach did....whine whine whine
Case in point off my son’s HS Varsity team:
1Pitcher: never played TB (Sr D2/3 prospect)
2Pitcher: never played TB (Sr – will go JC due to injury last year)
Catch: Played some local TB (Jr D1/D2 prospect)
1st: never played TB – (Sr D1/D2 prospect)
2nd – never played TB (D1/D2 will go to JC because of grades)
SS – never played TB (Soph - stud major D1 prospect)
3rd – never played TB (Soph)
LF – Soph played some TB will be number 3 pitcher maybe number 2. Major D1 prospect
CF- never played TB (Sr already “signed” with top 25 D1)
RF – never played TB
The operative word here is "elite". Much of the motivation for these private programs is to give parents and players a comfort level that they have a son who is part of an "elite" BB program. Why else would they look down their nose at the HS programs.
That been said the "elite" restriction or condition that a player cannot play for any other sport or program is also part of an "elitist" mindset. This is much different then a pure pay-to-play scheme. If the player is paying to play then the option will always reside with the parent and player as to where and with whom they spend their dollars.
Authoritarism is on the march in our country and its seeds are being planted in our sports programs. You see more and more of this with all the professional leagues. As these programs are socialized because the individual is diminished in favor of the group-think mentality more of the "elite" paradigm will constrict the open and freedom of the individual to choose eg., free agency.
That's the politics of the "elite" player movement. But it also endeavors to maintain the free enterprise ideal of creating a better model to achieve a higher performance level based upon "true competition" and avoiding the "socialized" idea of "leveling the playing field".
I for one, support the "privateers" and would use their programs to further the potential talent as we did with our son. Why? Because you get what you pay for. Public education is a composite model of how "leveling the playing field" helps absolutely no one except maybe the educator who doesn't have to teach to the highest possible standard. And in sports it leads to continually producing more mediocrity then excellence on the field of competition.
IMHO
That been said the "elite" restriction or condition that a player cannot play for any other sport or program is also part of an "elitist" mindset. This is much different then a pure pay-to-play scheme. If the player is paying to play then the option will always reside with the parent and player as to where and with whom they spend their dollars.
Authoritarism is on the march in our country and its seeds are being planted in our sports programs. You see more and more of this with all the professional leagues. As these programs are socialized because the individual is diminished in favor of the group-think mentality more of the "elite" paradigm will constrict the open and freedom of the individual to choose eg., free agency.
That's the politics of the "elite" player movement. But it also endeavors to maintain the free enterprise ideal of creating a better model to achieve a higher performance level based upon "true competition" and avoiding the "socialized" idea of "leveling the playing field".
I for one, support the "privateers" and would use their programs to further the potential talent as we did with our son. Why? Because you get what you pay for. Public education is a composite model of how "leveling the playing field" helps absolutely no one except maybe the educator who doesn't have to teach to the highest possible standard. And in sports it leads to continually producing more mediocrity then excellence on the field of competition.
IMHO
quote:If the player is paying to play then the option will always reside with the parent and player as to where and with whom they spend their dollars.
I hope your son is a very, very, very good player. With the position you have provided, eventually, the real world of baseball will catch up.
You may eventually find you won't "always" have options.
You may find your dollars don't matter.
At some point, you may find the only thing that matters is how well your son can compete, succeed and produce when he has no other options and your money doesn't count.
At some point, everyone is "elite." That is "true competition" and you cannot shield your son on the baseball field, no matter how much money you have.
Good luck to him. I truly hope he is one of those players who can succeed as the competitive equation becomes equal.
BBkaze - Some day when your son is the CEO of a major company or firm...I hope somewhere, somehow...he learned to get the most out of his employees or "team members" that are less talented than him...rather than dismiss them.
THE very most effective "leaders" I know...in my job...are outstanding at working within a team comprised of players with varying (acceptable) levels of ability.
Some of our very worst hires came with an elite attitude based on where they obtained their degree or who they previously worked for. HS baseball is not about "leveling the field," its about representing your community, with your friends and together becoming a team with a common goal...something we are losing very quickly in the younger workforce these days.
If I misunderstood your thesis, then I apologize.
THE very most effective "leaders" I know...in my job...are outstanding at working within a team comprised of players with varying (acceptable) levels of ability.
Some of our very worst hires came with an elite attitude based on where they obtained their degree or who they previously worked for. HS baseball is not about "leveling the field," its about representing your community, with your friends and together becoming a team with a common goal...something we are losing very quickly in the younger workforce these days.
If I misunderstood your thesis, then I apologize.
There are always many sides to think about.
How about scouting and college recruiting? Here is what a MLB Director of Scouting said in the recently released book “Perfect Game USA”
Note: The names (*****) actually appear in the book.
So looking at it from yet another side… Scouting a top player was the topic brought up above. The head of scouting for this organization is well known for selecting high school players in the draft. Why would a high school coach, truly interested in helping his player, tell that player he will be punished if he attends something like what the MLB scouting director was describing above? Lucky for this particular first round pick, his understanding high school coach didn’t stop him from participating in out of season activities.
High School Coaches and others involved in baseball need to work together. There is plenty of room for both! In fact, I believe both serve a common purpose in many ways.
BTW, I still believe high school baseball will be just fine. It’s still a very big deal and always will be IMO. Luckily, there are many outstanding people coaching high school baseball.
How about scouting and college recruiting? Here is what a MLB Director of Scouting said in the recently released book “Perfect Game USA”
quote:“We firmly believe in our summer coverage at Perfect Game events. We understand that we’ll see these guys over and over in WWBA tournaments and places like here (Perfect Game National Showcase), while in the springtime (In their high school seasons) these kids don’t get pitched to.” ***** sees attending high school games largely a waste of time. “I went to three games before I saw our first-round pick this year, ***** *******, pitched to in his high school games. They just kept issuing him intentional walks. His situation wasn’t unusual at all – in fact, it’s the norm. It’s why scouting top prospects at their high school games is many times a crapshoot at best. At Marietta or here., I could see him play – against excellent competition – and nobody was walking him intentionally. We don’t go to high school games to find players anymore. We go there to follow the players we have found long before the high school game.”
Note: The names (*****) actually appear in the book.
So looking at it from yet another side… Scouting a top player was the topic brought up above. The head of scouting for this organization is well known for selecting high school players in the draft. Why would a high school coach, truly interested in helping his player, tell that player he will be punished if he attends something like what the MLB scouting director was describing above? Lucky for this particular first round pick, his understanding high school coach didn’t stop him from participating in out of season activities.
High School Coaches and others involved in baseball need to work together. There is plenty of room for both! In fact, I believe both serve a common purpose in many ways.
BTW, I still believe high school baseball will be just fine. It’s still a very big deal and always will be IMO. Luckily, there are many outstanding people coaching high school baseball.
quote:High School Coaches and others involved in baseball need to work together. There is plenty of room for both!
Yes.
And...I don't agree with HS coaches who "punish" players for doing something different during the summer. Likewise, I don't agree with "elite" travel coaches who advise an "elite" player that they are more important than their HS team.
Athletics is more about gaining skills for life than it is about reaching the next level of a particular sport.
Just my opinion, nothing more.
No need to become hostile.
Simply put, sacrificing for the best training through use of private instruction, travel clubs, and private ball club competition, etc. has nothing to do with how much money one has. It is rather a total commitment to priorities of meeting expenditures for your son's potential future as both a ball player and a college student.
I am sure there are many parents here that do not consider themselves wealthy but have sacrificed much to give their children the best possible chances at the best instruction possible, whether it be in music, scientific studies in support of projects and competitions or attending a select by-invitation-only ball club program.
The discussing presupposes that the privateer who would offer an alternative to HS baseball in the Spring IMHO is not justified and thus not overdue. IMHO it is time for the school systems to realize that people are fed up with the monopolistic arrogance that most public education admin/staff have legislatively supported with their take-it-or-leave-it attitudes bred by their monolithic interest, liberal politics and singular mindsets.
In baseball the standards for acceptance are proscribed by the pro scouts and published for all to understand. It is not a communal activity but an individual endeavor to meet the 5 tool model or to hit the 90 to 95 mph FB requirement to meet the standard of excellence. The elite programs help in developing that potential. Whereas in the public school system most boys would be discouraged even before they got a chance do to the social priorities against being a "tool" of the system. Know this from speaking to many of these young men.
If you can keep them in private programs and away from the negative environment in the public schools your BB player may have a chance at fulfilling playing at the college level. Playing in the pros may not be part of that equation but it sure is closer using private instruction then risking developing your son's talent relying solely on a public HS program. Even though many HS programs have produced great players and good human beings it is more likely that your son will do better with the "elite" travel ball club program.
IMHO
Simply put, sacrificing for the best training through use of private instruction, travel clubs, and private ball club competition, etc. has nothing to do with how much money one has. It is rather a total commitment to priorities of meeting expenditures for your son's potential future as both a ball player and a college student.
I am sure there are many parents here that do not consider themselves wealthy but have sacrificed much to give their children the best possible chances at the best instruction possible, whether it be in music, scientific studies in support of projects and competitions or attending a select by-invitation-only ball club program.
The discussing presupposes that the privateer who would offer an alternative to HS baseball in the Spring IMHO is not justified and thus not overdue. IMHO it is time for the school systems to realize that people are fed up with the monopolistic arrogance that most public education admin/staff have legislatively supported with their take-it-or-leave-it attitudes bred by their monolithic interest, liberal politics and singular mindsets.
In baseball the standards for acceptance are proscribed by the pro scouts and published for all to understand. It is not a communal activity but an individual endeavor to meet the 5 tool model or to hit the 90 to 95 mph FB requirement to meet the standard of excellence. The elite programs help in developing that potential. Whereas in the public school system most boys would be discouraged even before they got a chance do to the social priorities against being a "tool" of the system. Know this from speaking to many of these young men.
If you can keep them in private programs and away from the negative environment in the public schools your BB player may have a chance at fulfilling playing at the college level. Playing in the pros may not be part of that equation but it sure is closer using private instruction then risking developing your son's talent relying solely on a public HS program. Even though many HS programs have produced great players and good human beings it is more likely that your son will do better with the "elite" travel ball club program.
IMHO
BBkaze,
I see that you have 23 posts.
No one here, that I am aware in all of the years I have been here has EVER suggested that HS baseball will lead you to the promised land (college scholarship or drafted).
I don't think that is what this is about.
BTW, justbaseball's son plays proball and so has infielddad's, both played in excellent college programs.
You might be preaching to the wrong choir. JMO.
I see that you have 23 posts.
No one here, that I am aware in all of the years I have been here has EVER suggested that HS baseball will lead you to the promised land (college scholarship or drafted).
I don't think that is what this is about.
BTW, justbaseball's son plays proball and so has infielddad's, both played in excellent college programs.
You might be preaching to the wrong choir. JMO.
In some areas of CA this may soon be the only option for playing baseball as some school districts are talking about cutting all high school athletic teams due to severe budget cuts. Very sad to think high school kids won't have the opportunity to play hs sports.
In retrospect, my son's high school baseball was a fantastic time for our family. He became very close with the hs principal as she would come to all our games. The stands would be full of teachers, classmates,parents, Little Leaguers, and community members. Our local paper always covered the games with articles and pictures. I guess we still live in a fairly small town and people enjoy watching hs sports.
He played travel ball for years at a very high level and nothing compares with the times spent with his teammates and their parents. Lifelong frienships were formed and now many of these kids are scattered across the US playing college ball.
Both high school and travel meshed well together and we wouldn't have given up one for the other. I guess we were lucky that we were never told he had to make a choice. Things have changed alot just in the last few years.
In retrospect, my son's high school baseball was a fantastic time for our family. He became very close with the hs principal as she would come to all our games. The stands would be full of teachers, classmates,parents, Little Leaguers, and community members. Our local paper always covered the games with articles and pictures. I guess we still live in a fairly small town and people enjoy watching hs sports.
He played travel ball for years at a very high level and nothing compares with the times spent with his teammates and their parents. Lifelong frienships were formed and now many of these kids are scattered across the US playing college ball.
Both high school and travel meshed well together and we wouldn't have given up one for the other. I guess we were lucky that we were never told he had to make a choice. Things have changed alot just in the last few years.
That sums up my sons experience to a T.
quote:Athletics is more about gaining skills for life than it is about reaching the next level of a particular sport.
Boy, if that isn't the truth. I wish more people would realize this.
Thank you for your correction, but I make no assumption indicative to any parent here or their son's status. It is rather a discussion about privateer's desire to provide an alternative for ball players whose chances are been impacted by negative circumstances.
It just seemed to me the best thing for families to do is support the private ball club, imho the instruction and competition will be better. That was our experience and I think most would agree.
After all isn't it the hs that is causing the problem?
It just seemed to me the best thing for families to do is support the private ball club, imho the instruction and competition will be better. That was our experience and I think most would agree.
After all isn't it the hs that is causing the problem?
quote:Athletics is more about gaining skills for life than it is about reaching the next level of a particular sport.
justbaseball,
Not to be different or difficult, but....
Personally I believe both gaining skills for life and striving to reach the next level are important.
I understand what your saying, but all kinds of people learn life skills without participating in athletics. Everything a person is involved with helps in gaining skills for life. While sports might help, it's not necessary. Some of the most well grounded, intelligent, successful people I know, never played a high school sport.
On the other hand, knowing how to reach the next level is absolutely a life skill. It doesn't pertain to just athletics. We would be in serious trouble if nobody was interested in striving to reach the next level. In fact, that is what high school and college is all about whether it pertains to sports or not. There is everything right about trying to reach the next level.
For many, baseball has failed miserably when it comes to teaching life skills.
Not trying to argue, just have a little different opinion.
PG,
I believe we are mostly disagreeing on semantics or interpretation of each others' words here. Of course I agree with:
as well as many other things you have said here.
And I did not say that life skills cannot be attained without athletics. It is but one way and I do believe leadership, teamwork, sacrifice, mentorship and being-exemplary in how you compete are all more important to take away from athletics than reaching the next level.
For example, if my youngest son accomplishes nothing more than these things through 4 years of playing HS baseball and football I will most definitely feel it has been a very great success. Its just my view.
Of course, like everyone here, I enjoy accomplishment by anyone in my sphere...but I do not believe that reaching the next level is the measure of success or failure...achievement or disappointment...happiness or misery. To me, the journey, the competition, the participation, the 'being-a-part-of-it' is the most valuable thing gained.
I believe we are mostly disagreeing on semantics or interpretation of each others' words here. Of course I agree with:
quote:Personally I believe both gaining skills for life and striving to reach the next level are important.
as well as many other things you have said here.
And I did not say that life skills cannot be attained without athletics. It is but one way and I do believe leadership, teamwork, sacrifice, mentorship and being-exemplary in how you compete are all more important to take away from athletics than reaching the next level.
For example, if my youngest son accomplishes nothing more than these things through 4 years of playing HS baseball and football I will most definitely feel it has been a very great success. Its just my view.
Of course, like everyone here, I enjoy accomplishment by anyone in my sphere...but I do not believe that reaching the next level is the measure of success or failure...achievement or disappointment...happiness or misery. To me, the journey, the competition, the participation, the 'being-a-part-of-it' is the most valuable thing gained.
PGStaff, I am so glad you are still around. Your comments are so right on.
First, hs ball is always going to be around. This is not threatinging that.
Second, players need a place to play, it really does not matter where they play. Where does the kid want to play? Where does the kid feel most happy and comfortable? I will tell you this about Mike Spears, he will teach the kid some life lessons. Honestly and brutally.
Your point about not getting a pitch to hit and not getting pitched to is valid. I am a SoCal parent and I know about kids being pitched around or intentionally walked. It stinks for them. And, it is really a crapshoot for the scouts. You can see them get visibly upset when it happens.
HS coaches need to win.
Spears is now and always has been a developer of talent first and a winner second. I have never seen that guy sacrifice a kid for a win. And, SoCal is loaded with that kind of coaching. Trombly, SGV, SD Show, NorCal... Now that would be a heck of an alternative.
I recently had the great opportunity of sitting down with a few scouts. One was from the south, one from the mid-west and one from the north region of the states...same MLB club. They asked my son about where he had been. We talked about the PG Nationals in Minnesota, we talked about GA, we talked about Jupiter... they were psyched. They had been all those places and remembered my son. They had not been to our hs field.
High school is about community, and I am about community. My kid plays for his high school and has made life long friends and learned life long lessons. He is that kid.
Not every kid is in my kids high school and not every kid fits inside the mold, but every kid that wants to play deserves to.
First, hs ball is always going to be around. This is not threatinging that.
Second, players need a place to play, it really does not matter where they play. Where does the kid want to play? Where does the kid feel most happy and comfortable? I will tell you this about Mike Spears, he will teach the kid some life lessons. Honestly and brutally.
Your point about not getting a pitch to hit and not getting pitched to is valid. I am a SoCal parent and I know about kids being pitched around or intentionally walked. It stinks for them. And, it is really a crapshoot for the scouts. You can see them get visibly upset when it happens.
HS coaches need to win.
Spears is now and always has been a developer of talent first and a winner second. I have never seen that guy sacrifice a kid for a win. And, SoCal is loaded with that kind of coaching. Trombly, SGV, SD Show, NorCal... Now that would be a heck of an alternative.
I recently had the great opportunity of sitting down with a few scouts. One was from the south, one from the mid-west and one from the north region of the states...same MLB club. They asked my son about where he had been. We talked about the PG Nationals in Minnesota, we talked about GA, we talked about Jupiter... they were psyched. They had been all those places and remembered my son. They had not been to our hs field.
High school is about community, and I am about community. My kid plays for his high school and has made life long friends and learned life long lessons. He is that kid.
Not every kid is in my kids high school and not every kid fits inside the mold, but every kid that wants to play deserves to.
justbaseball,
That I
That I
Some interesting thoughts in this thread...
LHPMom2012 said:
Find something else to do imho.
playfair said:
No they don't imho.
Let me explain. These sentiments go against the grain of every activity of human achievement so why should sports be any different? There are only a few leading roles for the drama club. Why don't we say "every" kid who wants to act up on stage should be given the opportunity? How about being first chair for an instrument like the trumpet or clarinet? Only so many of those to go around. Only so many slots in the band in some cases. How about the academic debating team? Should everyone be given a chance to debate or only those who have earned the right through fair competition? Should every girl who wants to be on the cheerleading team be allowed or only those who have won the position through competition and gymnastic achievement? We can go on and on...
I believe people need to find out what it is they do well in life and pursue it. For some, sports may be part of the equation. For others it is something else and that activity in turn may be exlusionary to some other group. We live in a capitalist society with scarce resources. People can be what their talent and hard work allows them to be and no more. I don't believe in entitlements. I had my feelings hurt many times as a kid when something did not go my way. I got over it and found something else to do that I was good at.
LHPMom2012 said:
quote:what are kids supposed to do who don't make the team?
Find something else to do imho.
playfair said:
quote:but every kid that wants to play deserves to.
No they don't imho.
Let me explain. These sentiments go against the grain of every activity of human achievement so why should sports be any different? There are only a few leading roles for the drama club. Why don't we say "every" kid who wants to act up on stage should be given the opportunity? How about being first chair for an instrument like the trumpet or clarinet? Only so many of those to go around. Only so many slots in the band in some cases. How about the academic debating team? Should everyone be given a chance to debate or only those who have earned the right through fair competition? Should every girl who wants to be on the cheerleading team be allowed or only those who have won the position through competition and gymnastic achievement? We can go on and on...
I believe people need to find out what it is they do well in life and pursue it. For some, sports may be part of the equation. For others it is something else and that activity in turn may be exlusionary to some other group. We live in a capitalist society with scarce resources. People can be what their talent and hard work allows them to be and no more. I don't believe in entitlements. I had my feelings hurt many times as a kid when something did not go my way. I got over it and found something else to do that I was good at.
I believe that this will be good for Players that are very talented but don't have the Acadamics to play HS BB.
Most of the time these players fall along the wayside, never to be heard from again.
And thats a shame.
This could be a boon for the pro scouts looking for raw talent.
And at who's expense??
EH
Most of the time these players fall along the wayside, never to be heard from again.
And thats a shame.
This could be a boon for the pro scouts looking for raw talent.
And at who's expense??
EH
Who is this Mike Spears? ...some holdover from the Bush administration??? Who does he think he is challenging the California Interscholastic Federation with some private venture? There shall be no insurgent athletic programs! This nonsense about no 2010 spring BB season is pure fear-mongering. Off with his head.
By the way California, your tax refund is in the mail.
By the way California, your tax refund is in the mail.
I have to agree with Cleveland Dad that if a young man can't make his HS team, he might be better off doing something else. There is nothing more antithetical to competitive sports than the "everyone" inclusion concept. Competition dictates that some will win...and some will lose. Get over, and move on.
As for EH, I have to disagree with you on your comment about academics. If a kid can't acheive even the modest 2.0 GPA to be eligible to play scholastic sports, he has no business being on the field, he belongs in the classroom with his nose buried in a book, and I think has no business playing sports till he brings his grades up.
Since I started this thread I've been reading everyone's posts and thinking about Mr. Spiers. While I don't know Mike very well at all, I know him more than most on here. Our teams have competed against each other a few times, and I've learned a little about him on the field. One thing I only recalled today makes me wonder about his motive for this expansion into high school's realm. Last year, he expanded his ABD organization into Northern CA and Hawai'i. At the time, I remember thinking that maybe he didn't think that Southern CA was big enough for him. He wanted to expand into the Sacramento area, which is where my team was located, so I was interested to see what impact, if any, it would have on the local travel ball environment. I don't know what happened, but their plans never gained traction. They got a Sacramento team going, but it never seemed to go anywhere and as far as I know, they disbanded before even playing through one summer. From talking to his coaches, the Hawai'i expansion didn't go that well either, and the level of their team wasn't nearly what his excellent southern CA teams have acheived on the field. Mike Spiers really does do a great job of running a first class and very competitive travel club, but these ventures into new markets have me wondering if expanding into the high school season realm is just another logical (to him) step in his expansion of ABD.
As for EH, I have to disagree with you on your comment about academics. If a kid can't acheive even the modest 2.0 GPA to be eligible to play scholastic sports, he has no business being on the field, he belongs in the classroom with his nose buried in a book, and I think has no business playing sports till he brings his grades up.
Since I started this thread I've been reading everyone's posts and thinking about Mr. Spiers. While I don't know Mike very well at all, I know him more than most on here. Our teams have competed against each other a few times, and I've learned a little about him on the field. One thing I only recalled today makes me wonder about his motive for this expansion into high school's realm. Last year, he expanded his ABD organization into Northern CA and Hawai'i. At the time, I remember thinking that maybe he didn't think that Southern CA was big enough for him. He wanted to expand into the Sacramento area, which is where my team was located, so I was interested to see what impact, if any, it would have on the local travel ball environment. I don't know what happened, but their plans never gained traction. They got a Sacramento team going, but it never seemed to go anywhere and as far as I know, they disbanded before even playing through one summer. From talking to his coaches, the Hawai'i expansion didn't go that well either, and the level of their team wasn't nearly what his excellent southern CA teams have acheived on the field. Mike Spiers really does do a great job of running a first class and very competitive travel club, but these ventures into new markets have me wondering if expanding into the high school season realm is just another logical (to him) step in his expansion of ABD.
quote:As for EH, I have to disagree with you on your comment about academics. If a kid can't acheive even the modest 2.0 GPA to be eligible to play scholastic sports, he has no business being on the field, he belongs in the classroom with his nose buried in a book, and I think has no business playing sports till he brings his grades up.
06, I agree that a student should study and study somemore to get there grades up.
But in reality some very good players never will.
Why, many many reasons.
This would just be an option for those type players.
EH
I'm just not sure they deserve that option. Sometimes, the most valuable lessons are painful ones.
I will stop posting on this subject. But I do have a wish. I wish that 10 years from now someone will remember this discussion and remember those that warned about the impending dangers high school baseball is facing. The danger is ignored because Mr. Spiers' actions are in one isolated area ---- but the real destruction will result from a mindset that is rapidly developing within the parental ranks and others ---- it's obvious in this thread. Reminds me of the first time I saw an aluminum bat.
Fungo
Fungo
There are a couple of facts that are incorrect about a couple of our programs that have started in Hawaii and Northern California.
HAWAII ABD
Currently we have close to 80 players in our program. Last year our 16U/Sophomore team entered the USA 16U National Championships and finished 3-2 and just missed the top 32 because of runs allowed. They did go on and finished with with 2 more wins and went 5-2. Currently we will be sending a Sophomore team again to the USA 16U National Championships. We may be sending 2 teams this year. With one team all players from Oahu and the 2nd team from the neighboring islands.
This program is coordinated by 3 people from the islands. Verne Ramie, Paul Tamashiro & Kaha Wong.
During the Senior Fall Classic, they had a good showing and did well. Had one pitcher touch 93 on the mound that surprised many of the pro scouts. They didn't know who he was until that outing. We are awaiting for a few more players to make their commitment. Below are the ones that have committed so far.
HAWAII COMMITMENTS
Kalei Hanawahine - University of San Diego
Kamehameha '09
Piikea Kitamura - University of Hawaii
Kamehameha '09
Reyn Nagamine - University of San Diego
Iolani '09
Gavin Kino****a - Cal State Monterey Bay
Mid Pacific Institute '09
Christian Carmichael - University of Hawaii
Kamehameha '10
Also, this coming summer we will be taking a 17U/Junior team that will be playing in the 18U & 17U WWBA National Championships.
NORTHERN CALIFORNIA ABD
We started our program in Northern California and so far it is going about what we thought. We felt that we would have a few players and grow into a program. The name of our team in Northern California is the Sacramento Valley Dogs. This team is coordinated by Randy Waite. This team in the summer and fall played in almost 10 tournaments. Some of them they ok and some the struggled. But they are still around. Currently this team looks to grown into 2 different teams with an older team made of 17U & 18U players and and second team made of 15U & 16U players.
We have started a second group that will be run by Tony Incaviglia. This team will be known as the Central Coast Otters. This will be primarily made up of 2010 & 2011 Grads. Bill Davis is coordinating the entire ABD program in Northern California and knows how our program operates and what how we expect things to get done. We only went to Northern California due to players traveling south in wanting to play on our teams. That is the only reason we started up there.
Currently we have 450 high school players from Southern California, 80 from Hawaii & almost 40 from Northern California. The strength is definitely in Southern California which we are based out of.
HAWAII ABD
Currently we have close to 80 players in our program. Last year our 16U/Sophomore team entered the USA 16U National Championships and finished 3-2 and just missed the top 32 because of runs allowed. They did go on and finished with with 2 more wins and went 5-2. Currently we will be sending a Sophomore team again to the USA 16U National Championships. We may be sending 2 teams this year. With one team all players from Oahu and the 2nd team from the neighboring islands.
This program is coordinated by 3 people from the islands. Verne Ramie, Paul Tamashiro & Kaha Wong.
During the Senior Fall Classic, they had a good showing and did well. Had one pitcher touch 93 on the mound that surprised many of the pro scouts. They didn't know who he was until that outing. We are awaiting for a few more players to make their commitment. Below are the ones that have committed so far.
HAWAII COMMITMENTS
Kalei Hanawahine - University of San Diego
Kamehameha '09
Piikea Kitamura - University of Hawaii
Kamehameha '09
Reyn Nagamine - University of San Diego
Iolani '09
Gavin Kino****a - Cal State Monterey Bay
Mid Pacific Institute '09
Christian Carmichael - University of Hawaii
Kamehameha '10
Also, this coming summer we will be taking a 17U/Junior team that will be playing in the 18U & 17U WWBA National Championships.
NORTHERN CALIFORNIA ABD
We started our program in Northern California and so far it is going about what we thought. We felt that we would have a few players and grow into a program. The name of our team in Northern California is the Sacramento Valley Dogs. This team is coordinated by Randy Waite. This team in the summer and fall played in almost 10 tournaments. Some of them they ok and some the struggled. But they are still around. Currently this team looks to grown into 2 different teams with an older team made of 17U & 18U players and and second team made of 15U & 16U players.
We have started a second group that will be run by Tony Incaviglia. This team will be known as the Central Coast Otters. This will be primarily made up of 2010 & 2011 Grads. Bill Davis is coordinating the entire ABD program in Northern California and knows how our program operates and what how we expect things to get done. We only went to Northern California due to players traveling south in wanting to play on our teams. That is the only reason we started up there.
Currently we have 450 high school players from Southern California, 80 from Hawaii & almost 40 from Northern California. The strength is definitely in Southern California which we are based out of.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BOF:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by 20d
Case in point off my son’s HS Varsity team:
1Pitcher: never played TB (Sr D2/3 prospect)
2Pitcher: never played TB (Sr – will go JC due to injury last year)
Catch: Played some local TB (Jr D1/D2 prospect)
1st: never played TB – (Sr D1/D2 prospect)
2nd – never played TB (D1/D2 will go to JC because of grades)
SS – never played TB (Soph - stud major D1 prospect)
3rd – never played TB (Soph)
LF – Soph played some TB will be number 3 pitcher maybe number 2. Major D1 prospect
CF- never played TB (Sr already “signed” with top 25 D1)
RF – never played TB
Truly amazing!!! As I read your list I could not think of one kid that has not played TB at one point in his life. What a stastical anomally that your son's HS Varsity team has 8. That's quite a collection of rec ball prepped talent.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by 20d
Case in point off my son’s HS Varsity team:
1Pitcher: never played TB (Sr D2/3 prospect)
2Pitcher: never played TB (Sr – will go JC due to injury last year)
Catch: Played some local TB (Jr D1/D2 prospect)
1st: never played TB – (Sr D1/D2 prospect)
2nd – never played TB (D1/D2 will go to JC because of grades)
SS – never played TB (Soph - stud major D1 prospect)
3rd – never played TB (Soph)
LF – Soph played some TB will be number 3 pitcher maybe number 2. Major D1 prospect
CF- never played TB (Sr already “signed” with top 25 D1)
RF – never played TB
Truly amazing!!! As I read your list I could not think of one kid that has not played TB at one point in his life. What a stastical anomally that your son's HS Varsity team has 8. That's quite a collection of rec ball prepped talent.
Just want to clarify something about the Spring Club league that we are involved in. It is not an ABD program in the sense that you have to be part of the ABD program to be involved.
We currently have 2 independent teams that are confirmed to be playing in this league. They both are from the Orange County area. They are teams that play club baseball and are not ABD teams.
Currently there 4 other teams that are looking to be part of the league this Spring. When and if they are able to put a team in this new league. It will surprise some people. If they do not do it this Spring, they are in for next year for sure.
Right now we look to have 3 teams that are made up of ABD players from our program as well as some players who play for other club organizations. When the spring league is over those players will return to the club teams who they play for.
The players that are playing come from many different situations that is difficult to understand. We are not trying to replace high school baseball. There are situations where a player has no choice but to look for a different option. Since we have done this, we have had several high school coaches back off in their stance that they can't play club baseball. This is a healthy situation that has helped open up the coaches to be more understanding of where the players interest are.
I think I mentioned this in an earlier thread. But I like to ask the people here that are negative about this. If you had a son that is going to high school and has received a scholarship and committed to a DI school. That if he didn't attend a scrimmage game on a Saturday and was told about this game Friday after school where it was not on the schedule for that weekend. That it was mandatory to attend with no exceptions. That if he attends a showcase that he would have to suffer the consequences when he returns. And then returns and is demoted to the JV team for the season. What would you do? And remember, he was cut early October for playing scout ball for a MLB team. How would you react, some of you have never been put in this situation. But how would you react?
This is one of many stories that are out there. The Spring League was designed to be an option for players in situations that can not be resolved in a positive way. This kid is an awesome kid in every way shape or form. When I talk to the other kids from the school that he attends that are on the team. They say they don't know why the coach singles him out. He does everything you ask of him. He is a kid that is passionate about the game and is also a 3.50 student. He isn't a bad kid or student. He has alot of friends in his school.
I can give you stories that will make you really think. How about a kid was told that if he went to a workout for a MLB Scouting Director in November that he would be cut from his high school team. Do you believe that one, it is true. Because of this I know of some players who transfered from the school for fear that he would do that to them when going to their Senior year.
High School baseball is awesome in alot of ways. I am only wanting to do things that will benefit this game. I love this game in every way you can imagine. If you really know me, then you would understand how I am. I can give you many stories like this. It is not about sour grapes that some of you think. If that is what you believe that is your opinion and I am good with it. There are some good high school coaches and they don't feel threatened and they shouldn't. If a high school coach is doing the right thing, he should not feel any danger of his players wanting to leave.
We currently have 2 independent teams that are confirmed to be playing in this league. They both are from the Orange County area. They are teams that play club baseball and are not ABD teams.
Currently there 4 other teams that are looking to be part of the league this Spring. When and if they are able to put a team in this new league. It will surprise some people. If they do not do it this Spring, they are in for next year for sure.
Right now we look to have 3 teams that are made up of ABD players from our program as well as some players who play for other club organizations. When the spring league is over those players will return to the club teams who they play for.
The players that are playing come from many different situations that is difficult to understand. We are not trying to replace high school baseball. There are situations where a player has no choice but to look for a different option. Since we have done this, we have had several high school coaches back off in their stance that they can't play club baseball. This is a healthy situation that has helped open up the coaches to be more understanding of where the players interest are.
I think I mentioned this in an earlier thread. But I like to ask the people here that are negative about this. If you had a son that is going to high school and has received a scholarship and committed to a DI school. That if he didn't attend a scrimmage game on a Saturday and was told about this game Friday after school where it was not on the schedule for that weekend. That it was mandatory to attend with no exceptions. That if he attends a showcase that he would have to suffer the consequences when he returns. And then returns and is demoted to the JV team for the season. What would you do? And remember, he was cut early October for playing scout ball for a MLB team. How would you react, some of you have never been put in this situation. But how would you react?
This is one of many stories that are out there. The Spring League was designed to be an option for players in situations that can not be resolved in a positive way. This kid is an awesome kid in every way shape or form. When I talk to the other kids from the school that he attends that are on the team. They say they don't know why the coach singles him out. He does everything you ask of him. He is a kid that is passionate about the game and is also a 3.50 student. He isn't a bad kid or student. He has alot of friends in his school.
I can give you stories that will make you really think. How about a kid was told that if he went to a workout for a MLB Scouting Director in November that he would be cut from his high school team. Do you believe that one, it is true. Because of this I know of some players who transfered from the school for fear that he would do that to them when going to their Senior year.
High School baseball is awesome in alot of ways. I am only wanting to do things that will benefit this game. I love this game in every way you can imagine. If you really know me, then you would understand how I am. I can give you many stories like this. It is not about sour grapes that some of you think. If that is what you believe that is your opinion and I am good with it. There are some good high school coaches and they don't feel threatened and they shouldn't. If a high school coach is doing the right thing, he should not feel any danger of his players wanting to leave.
Wow, you make it sound like there are not many good clubs in northern CA, and that the only way a player can find good baseball is to come play for you.
I wonder what Norcal and some of the other top clubs up this way would think about that? I think most of them think it is difficult to find enough quality players to keep the level of play real high as it is without losing players to southern CA. How soon do you plan to expand your spring league to northern CA?
I wonder what Norcal and some of the other top clubs up this way would think about that? I think most of them think it is difficult to find enough quality players to keep the level of play real high as it is without losing players to southern CA. How soon do you plan to expand your spring league to northern CA?
As for this league in Northern California, that is something that we are not interested in being involved in doing. The situation up there is nothing like it is here.
Also, never said there wasn't any good club teams in Northern California and that players have to come down to Southern California. Nor Cal is are a class by themselves up there and they do a good job in what they do. Look at their track record with the players that have come out of their program.
As for the reason that we have done things in Northern California is that I grew up there and have many friends there that want to be involved in club baseball. I used to coached college baseball for a few years up there before moving to Southern California. Because of my friends that I have known for many years, they wanted to get involved in the club baseball. Tony Incaviglia is one, he is also helping coach high school at Palma HS. He wanted to get involved in club baseball and asked me to help him start it.
Bill Davis lives in Sacramento area. He used to live in Southern California and moved up there and has been there for a while. He had a program called Davis Baseball Academy. Then he got cancer and had to back out of it. He wanted to get back in it, but wanted to be part of our program. He was involved in the beginning.
As for Randy Waite, he played for a good team in Northern California when he was younger and went on to college and also played 1 year of pro independent baseball. When he was done he went to the program that he played for, but for some reason it didn't happen and asked me if he could get involved and I said he could.
Also, never said there wasn't any good club teams in Northern California and that players have to come down to Southern California. Nor Cal is are a class by themselves up there and they do a good job in what they do. Look at their track record with the players that have come out of their program.
As for the reason that we have done things in Northern California is that I grew up there and have many friends there that want to be involved in club baseball. I used to coached college baseball for a few years up there before moving to Southern California. Because of my friends that I have known for many years, they wanted to get involved in the club baseball. Tony Incaviglia is one, he is also helping coach high school at Palma HS. He wanted to get involved in club baseball and asked me to help him start it.
Bill Davis lives in Sacramento area. He used to live in Southern California and moved up there and has been there for a while. He had a program called Davis Baseball Academy. Then he got cancer and had to back out of it. He wanted to get back in it, but wanted to be part of our program. He was involved in the beginning.
As for Randy Waite, he played for a good team in Northern California when he was younger and went on to college and also played 1 year of pro independent baseball. When he was done he went to the program that he played for, but for some reason it didn't happen and asked me if he could get involved and I said he could.
quote:As for EH, I have to disagree with you on your comment about academics. If a kid can't acheive even the modest 2.0 GPA to be eligible to play scholastic sports, he has no business being on the field, he belongs in the classroom with his nose buried in a book, and I think has no business playing sports till he brings his grades up.
I am in disbelief that a parent with kids not making it in the classroom should be out playing baseball. for the majority of kids(learning disabilities put aside) getting through HS is not that hard.What are you teaching these young people. What will they do after this venture? If they do nt have grades they will not get to college. This everyone deserves the same , OMG I am so tired of that mentality. No body deserves anything, it is earned. Do you get a paycheck if you do not go to work? I think I went to sleep and woke up in another world.Think Ill go back to bed.
More thoughts…
I understand where everyone is coming from regarding kids who are ineligible due to grades. However, in some cases, it is unfair to label these kids without knowing all the circumstances involved. If they truly love the game, taking the game away could do one of two things. The obvious, would be that they work hard to improve in the class room. The other, they lose interest in everything and start to spiral in the wrong direction.
I doubt there are many parents of gang members or drug dealers posting here on the HSBBW, but we all know these things exist. Probably doesn’t really pertain to this subject, but taking something away something that is very important doesn’t always produce the intended results. Sometimes kids need another option, someone to help them find the right path.
Bad grades… Not everyone is capable of getting good grades. For some it is difficult to stay above a 2.0 GPA. I know some very good kids in that situation. Sometimes it involves their life at home and sometimes it gets very deep. In a perfect world these type kids, need to be guided rather than punished. Sometimes taking away what they love is the worst possible solution. If someone helped them rather than punished them, maybe the results would be more positive. Anyway, my point is things can be much different from one case to another. We who post here, for the most part, share many beliefs when it comes to things like… Education. There is another segment of the population who don’t think the same way. There are kids who have no plans to attend college. It’s not always their fault, everyone is a product of their environment. I doubt that the parents of those kids do any posting here on the HSBBW. So, when it comes to things involving education, we just end up saying things that most people here would agree with. We need to understand, that OUR kids don’t always face the same issues as many others.
FYI, There are many “poor” students making a good living in baseball. In fact, sometimes these poor students become good draft picks due to almost certain signability. Not the recommended route! “Poor” students are not always “Bad” people!
I know this is off topic, but if any added baseball activity were to include guiding these kids in the right direction, it “could” be a positive thing. Maybe helping kids improve their grades rather than punishment.
Regarding what Mike is doing, I think he is doing it for the right reasons, in his mind. I see some good and some potentially bad results. If it turns into recruiting the top players away from high school it will be a bad thing IMO. If it helps some kids who are being punished unreasonably by adult egomaniacs, it could be a good thing. I’d like to think that Mike who has devoted his life to baseball, can’t possibly be planning to destroy HS baseball. He didn’t do it when his son played in high school. I think he loves high school baseball and is simply trying to make a point. I will give him the benefit of the doubt until it looks like things are going in the wrong direction. I just can’t believe that he can be successful with his present program if he were to make enemies out of all the high school coaches in So. Cal. I believe that he has the support of many good HS coaches. I believe he is trying to send a message to some of the others. I do think that those involved in scouting, recruiting, travel baseball, etc. need to look at this very closely. A few high school coaches, not high school baseball, that is what this is all about IMO. Is it possible that this could actually help high school baseball? I wouldn’t have the guts to do what Mike is doing. He might be crazy, if so, I hope he figures it out in a hurry.
For the record: I have not made a decision whether I think this is good or bad. Guess I don’t see it as anything that will ruin HS baseball and don’t think that is the intent. I do know that as soon as we see it being bad for high school baseball, we will be fighting against it. For those who think he is doing this strictly for money. I don’t think so! However I do think that economics are much more likely to hurt HS baseball (and other sports) than this club league.
The way I see it…. If this back fires on him, if the HS coaches band against him, he stands to lose a lot in many ways. In the mean time, Mike is his own man, agree or not, I’m glad that there are people who have the courage to risk everything for something they believe in.
For those who predict the future… How do you do that?
I understand where everyone is coming from regarding kids who are ineligible due to grades. However, in some cases, it is unfair to label these kids without knowing all the circumstances involved. If they truly love the game, taking the game away could do one of two things. The obvious, would be that they work hard to improve in the class room. The other, they lose interest in everything and start to spiral in the wrong direction.
I doubt there are many parents of gang members or drug dealers posting here on the HSBBW, but we all know these things exist. Probably doesn’t really pertain to this subject, but taking something away something that is very important doesn’t always produce the intended results. Sometimes kids need another option, someone to help them find the right path.
Bad grades… Not everyone is capable of getting good grades. For some it is difficult to stay above a 2.0 GPA. I know some very good kids in that situation. Sometimes it involves their life at home and sometimes it gets very deep. In a perfect world these type kids, need to be guided rather than punished. Sometimes taking away what they love is the worst possible solution. If someone helped them rather than punished them, maybe the results would be more positive. Anyway, my point is things can be much different from one case to another. We who post here, for the most part, share many beliefs when it comes to things like… Education. There is another segment of the population who don’t think the same way. There are kids who have no plans to attend college. It’s not always their fault, everyone is a product of their environment. I doubt that the parents of those kids do any posting here on the HSBBW. So, when it comes to things involving education, we just end up saying things that most people here would agree with. We need to understand, that OUR kids don’t always face the same issues as many others.
FYI, There are many “poor” students making a good living in baseball. In fact, sometimes these poor students become good draft picks due to almost certain signability. Not the recommended route! “Poor” students are not always “Bad” people!
I know this is off topic, but if any added baseball activity were to include guiding these kids in the right direction, it “could” be a positive thing. Maybe helping kids improve their grades rather than punishment.
Regarding what Mike is doing, I think he is doing it for the right reasons, in his mind. I see some good and some potentially bad results. If it turns into recruiting the top players away from high school it will be a bad thing IMO. If it helps some kids who are being punished unreasonably by adult egomaniacs, it could be a good thing. I’d like to think that Mike who has devoted his life to baseball, can’t possibly be planning to destroy HS baseball. He didn’t do it when his son played in high school. I think he loves high school baseball and is simply trying to make a point. I will give him the benefit of the doubt until it looks like things are going in the wrong direction. I just can’t believe that he can be successful with his present program if he were to make enemies out of all the high school coaches in So. Cal. I believe that he has the support of many good HS coaches. I believe he is trying to send a message to some of the others. I do think that those involved in scouting, recruiting, travel baseball, etc. need to look at this very closely. A few high school coaches, not high school baseball, that is what this is all about IMO. Is it possible that this could actually help high school baseball? I wouldn’t have the guts to do what Mike is doing. He might be crazy, if so, I hope he figures it out in a hurry.
For the record: I have not made a decision whether I think this is good or bad. Guess I don’t see it as anything that will ruin HS baseball and don’t think that is the intent. I do know that as soon as we see it being bad for high school baseball, we will be fighting against it. For those who think he is doing this strictly for money. I don’t think so! However I do think that economics are much more likely to hurt HS baseball (and other sports) than this club league.
The way I see it…. If this back fires on him, if the HS coaches band against him, he stands to lose a lot in many ways. In the mean time, Mike is his own man, agree or not, I’m glad that there are people who have the courage to risk everything for something they believe in.
For those who predict the future… How do you do that?
ClevelandDad, I just could not disagree with you more.
Every kid that wants to play deserves to.
I am just going to stand on that statement.
If he took your sugguestion of "Go find something else to do." Well, he would not start off very good at that either. Might as well spend his time getting better at something his heart is in.
Every kid that wants to play deserves to.
I am just going to stand on that statement.
If he took your sugguestion of "Go find something else to do." Well, he would not start off very good at that either. Might as well spend his time getting better at something his heart is in.
Lets just wait and see what happens with this. I see a serious problem when high school coaches can punish kids for what they do in the off season. Unless you have been put in this type of situation yourself I think its very hard to understand everything going on here. There will be plenty of time in the future to take a look and see what transpires.
Coach May,
I can't tell you how much I respect you and all the other high school coaches like you. High School baseball would last forever, and be even better, if everyone shared your thoughts.
There has never been a question about what comes first with you.
I can't tell you how much I respect you and all the other high school coaches like you. High School baseball would last forever, and be even better, if everyone shared your thoughts.
There has never been a question about what comes first with you.