Coach demands all players use -12 bats Is this a good idea?

Be sure to ask at the next practice which gloves don't have errors in them A lighter bat may or may not help, it will vary based on the individual. My experience with the little guys has been just the opposite, kids seem to hit better with -8 to -11 range of bats. The -12 & -13 just don't end up being used. I suppose if a kid is really small/weak they may help.

quote:

Originally posted by DT2:
My 10 yo son's coach is requiring all of his players to use a -12 or lighter bat. His belives the pitchers will be much faster this year then last and the lighter bat is necessary to catch up with the harder throwers. What gets me is the coach comes across as arrogant and demanding we meet his request instead of suggesting to the parents that moving to a lighter bat will help your child succeed more.

My son used a -9 the past two years and while not the star hitter on the team, he was able to hold his own and hit the ball over the outfielder's head about 1 in 10 at bats while striking out 2 or 3 times over the entire season. (OBP probably 75-80%) He will hit against the same pitchers he faced last season. My son really likes the bat he used last year and I am frugal (my wife says cheap) and don't want to buy a bat just to please this coach. My questions are:

Will using a lighter bat automaticly make kids better hitters?
I am being an "unreasonable parent" if I don't buy a bat provided my son can prove he can hit with the same effectivness as last year? (If my son struggles and hits better with a borrowed lighter bat we will get him a lighter bat)
How difficult is it for a kid to adjust from a -12 bat to the heavier bats required as he gets older?

Thanks

My son had used a 30-21 (-9) as a 10 year old and he was the 2nd smallest player on the team. He was the only kid not to strikeout against a couple of hard throwing pitchers and actually hit linedrives back up the middle. The assistant coach threaten to bench him if he used the bat again. The manager said he was in charge and allowed my son to continue to use his bat. He finished the season 2nd on the team for batting leaders.

quote:

Originally posted by MTS:

quote:

Originally posted by DT2:
My 10 yo son's coach is requiring all of his players to use a -12 or lighter bat. His belives the pitchers will be much faster this year then last and the lighter bat is necessary to catch up with the harder throwers. What gets me is the coach comes across as arrogant and demanding we meet his request instead of suggesting to the parents that moving to a lighter bat will help your child succeed more.

My son used a -9 the past two years and while not the star hitter on the team, he was able to hold his own and hit the ball over the outfielder's head about 1 in 10 at bats while striking out 2 or 3 times over the entire season. (OBP probably 75-80%) He will hit against the same pitchers he faced last season. My son really likes the bat he used last year and I am frugal (my wife says cheap) and don't want to buy a bat just to please this coach. My questions are:

Will using a lighter bat automaticly make kids better hitters?
I am being an "unreasonable parent" if I don't buy a bat provided my son can prove he can hit with the same effectivness as last year? (If my son struggles and hits better with a borrowed lighter bat we will get him a lighter bat)
How difficult is it for a kid to adjust from a -12 bat to the heavier bats required as he gets older?

Thanks

My son had used a 30-21 (-9) as a 10 year old and he was the 2nd smallest player on the team. He was the only kid not to strikeout against a couple of hard throwing pitchers and actually hit linedrives back up the middle. The assistant coach threaten to bench him if he used the bat again. The manager said he was in charge and allowed my son to continue to use his bat. He finished the season 2nd on the team for batting leaders.

Where do these Coaches come from? WOW! I would get a sticker off of a -12 and put it over the -9, he'll never know the difference. What an idiot! Has he never heard the phrase "size doesn't matter"? It's true! Just ask my Wife, lol!

If it is his demands,I would have HIM buy it.

I would move my son off that team immediately.

My son has been using a -9 since he was 6,no way are we going to go the other way.

There is nothing wrong with what the coach is saying. A lighter bat will be able to be swung faster and speed vs. weight is the most important factor.

quote:

Originally posted by ChrisWagner:
There is nothing wrong with what the coach is saying. A lighter bat will be able to be swung faster and speed vs. weight is the most important factor.

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! If that were true bats would be made out of Balsa wood. Their is a point at which the weight of the bat will help build strength in younger kids and even help with getting through the ball. Can you hit a ball as far with a wiffle bat as you can a -3 bat??? Bat length and weight are things that are unique to each hitter or all Pro bats would be the same. Things like this is why kids don't develop early as players, poor instruction.

Similar age group: We practice w/ drop 8.5 and play games w/ drop 10. Haven't used drop 12 since T-ball. I'll add that my kid is one of the smallest on the team and that we saw marked improvement when we ignored the drop (within reason) and shortened the bat. I'm suggesting, the right bat length proved to be more important than just trying to find the right drop size. I know stats at this age are not important and sometimes not relevant, but the little dude hit over 500 last season in travel ball using an inexpensive Easton 28" bat.

I'd get the right bat for the player and put a drop 12 sticker on the bat.(As someone suggested earlier.)

I agree with Chris that a lighter bat can be swung faster and this would help. I would also go with if the coach demands that players use a bat like this then is he going to fork over money for buying one.
You didn't say if this is LL or AAU. I know that most AAU players went with the feathers (that's what they felt like to me) when they came out. Maybe ask the coach if he makes it a point of this that you don't have the money right now and that your son really likes the bat he has now and that if he struggles with his bat but is able to hit with the lighter bat, that you'll go get that lighter bat when the money is saved up. Also I agree with the point of a "heavier" bat building strength, but that could be done in practice also. I know that many of the kids that went with the -12 bats also went on to play college ball - I don't think it hurt them.

Tim Robertson

To powertoallfields:

Did you just recently get involved in baseball. Why do you think that the pros and college and highschool only allow a drop 3. Just incase you don't know what a drop 3 is: a bat can only be 3 oz lighter than its length. So a bat that is 33 inches long can weigh no less than 30 oz. Now back to my question. If the MLB, College and HS bats are required to go by the drop 3 rule then the question is why? The answer is exit speeds off the bat, the lighter the bat the quicker you can swing it the farther it will propel the ball and it was getting to the point the pitchers were getting killed. Simple physics, bat speed is, (outside of proper swing mechanics), the most important part of hitting a baseball further. Now in regards to the coach. He is requiring lighter bats, because the boys will be able to power the bat through the strike zone quicker which will help in reacting to a faster pitcher.
By the way you're correct about the wiffle ball bat not being effective with a base ball. But a drop 3 bat would not hit a wiffle ball as far as a wiffle ball bat. See your analogy doesn't work that way.
Also, if you look out on the internet, you will find that the optimal bat weight is around 17 oz. real close to the drop 12 bat at 30 inches.

"You're wrong Colonel Sanders, Momma is right!"

quote:

Originally posted by ChrisWagner:
To powertoallfields:

Did you just recently get involved in baseball. Why do you think that the pros and college and highschool only allow a drop 3. Just incase you don't know what a drop 3 is: a bat can only be 3 oz lighter than its length. So a bat that is 33 inches long can weigh no less than 30 oz. Now back to my question. If the MLB, College and HS bats are required to go by the drop 3 rule then the question is why? The answer is exit speeds off the bat, the lighter the bat the quicker you can swing it the farther it will propel the ball and it was getting to the point the pitchers were getting killed. Simple physics, bat speed is, (outside of proper swing mechanics), the most important part of hitting a baseball further. Now in regards to the coach. He is requiring lighter bats, because the boys will be able to power the bat through the strike zone quicker which will help in reacting to a faster pitcher.
By the way you're correct about the wiffle ball bat not being effective with a base ball. But a drop 3 bat would not hit a wiffle ball as far as a wiffle ball bat. See your analogy doesn't work that way.
Also, if you look out on the internet, you will find that the optimal bat weight is around 17 oz. real close to the drop 12 bat at 30 inches.

"You're wrong Colonel Sanders, Momma is right!"

I have been involved in baseball for 43 years and find it mind boggling that a Coach would require ALL players to use the same drop to a bat. I am a private hitting instructor and believe ALL hitters should be taken as individuals. If I had a kid that was on this team and was swinging a -9 or less drop effectively and a Coach told him he had to change, we would be saying good bye to that Coach. My kid would be playing against his team and see how it worked out. Could you imagine Tony Larussa telling everyone on the Cardinals to use the same size bat??? It's just stupid to make a blanket statement like that to a whole team. Do you think Pujols could hit a 400' home run with a 29" 17oz. bat??? There is a point at which a persons grip strength will not handle a certain speed pitch with too light of a bat. You can choose to believe that or not.

Oh, BTW, Babe Ruth swung a +10 bat 46oz. 36". I wonder how many HRs he would have hit with a 29" 17 ouncer?

To Powertoallfields

I never disagreed with you comment about individuality. But you are the one who called me (Wrong!, Wrong!, Wrong!) and used the wiffle ball bat analogy. YES I do believe the Pujols could hit a 400' and further home run with a 29" 17oz bat. Physics E=mc^2. Energy = mass of and ojbect * speed of an object squared. Lets say a 10 year old boy can swing a 29" 17oz bat at 55mph E=mc^2 = 51,425 not converting to units. Now lets say the same boy can swing a 29" 20oz (drop 9) at 50mph (slower speed due to heavier bat) E=mc^2 = 50,000. Less energy less distance. Now there are more factors than bat speed that is important in hitting a baseball, confidence, timing, recognizing pitches and the list goes on. But like I said in the beginning the coach makes a good point to move to the lighter bats mainly because their timing will be slower on the faster picthers and swinging the lighter bats will help make up for some of that. I find it hard to believe that a private pitching instructor would not understand this. Let me guess you teach linear hitting, if that is the case than you shouldn't be using Pujols as an example to your students, because he is a rotational hitter. Speaking from experience of coaching for at least 20 years, the one thing that I have seen on a regular basis is boys trying to hit with bats that are too heavy for them. These boys will have plenty of time to get stronger when they go up into HS, College and the Pros.

quote:

Will using a lighter bat automaticly make kids better hitters?

No.

quote:

I am being an "unreasonable parent" if I don't buy a bat provided my son can prove he can hit with the same effectivness as last year?

No.

As a coach the only thing I demand from 10 yrd old players is that they give 100% effort. As coaches of 10 yr olds it is our job to keep these kids fired up about playing baseball, teach them to handle failure, and teach them the fundamentals of the game. I have recommended players use a lighter bat, bigger/smaller glove, etc. But keep in mind if a 10 yr has a perception that a lighter bat is going to make him hit better or faster pitching, than you have done that kid more harm than good.

This coach needs to settle down and realize that these kids are 10.

quote:

Originally posted by ChrisWagner:
To Powertoallfields

I never disagreed with you comment about individuality. But you are the one who called me (Wrong!, Wrong!, Wrong!) and used the wiffle ball bat analogy. YES I do believe the Pujols could hit a 400' and further home run with a 29" 17oz bat. Physics E=mc^2. Energy = mass of and ojbect * speed of an object squared. Lets say a 10 year old boy can swing a 29" 17oz bat at 55mph E=mc^2 = 51,425 not converting to units. Now lets say the same boy can swing a 29" 20oz (drop 9) at 50mph (slower speed due to heavier bat) E=mc^2 = 50,000. Less energy less distance. Now there are more factors than bat speed that is important in hitting a baseball, confidence, timing, recognizing pitches and the list goes on. But like I said in the beginning the coach makes a good point to move to the lighter bats mainly because their timing will be slower on the faster picthers and swinging the lighter bats will help make up for some of that. I find it hard to believe that a private pitching instructor would not understand this. Let me guess you teach linear hitting, if that is the case than you shouldn't be using Pujols as an example to your students, because he is a rotational hitter. Speaking from experience of coaching for at least 20 years, the one thing that I have seen on a regular basis is boys trying to hit with bats that are too heavy for them. These boys will have plenty of time to get stronger when they go up into HS, College and the Pros.

No, I don't teach linear hitting mechanics. I am glad you brought up the physics of the swing though. You left out one important portion though. That is the weight of the hitter. The more force put on the wrists by the weight being transfered and the speed of the ball adds to the pressure being put on the smallest link, the hands. I'll put this into extremes here. Going back to the wiffle bat example. Would an average 10 year old be able to hit a ball (regulation baseball) farther with the wiffle bat off of a tee or with it being Pitched? Now, with it being pitched under-handed slowly or over-handed at say 50mph? Try it with your kids and see what results you get. Then keep doing the same routine by moving up the weight of the bat until they can hit the ball thrown overhanded farther and still consistently. Think of fulcrum, lever and plane, there is a point at which each thing can and will fail.

quote:

But like I said in the beginning the coach makes a good point to move to the lighter bats mainly because their timing will be slower on the faster picthers and swinging the lighter bats will help make up for some of that.

Their timing may be off, but that is why they will learn to get quicker with their hands and bodies and possibly start their swings a little sooner. Good mechanics are the cure, not a lighter bat. In three years they will HAVE to swing a -5 and they will NOT be prepared.

You will always be able to hitting a moving object further than one off a tee (as long as good contact is made), hence the reason why hitting a baseball is one of the most difficult things to do in sports. Let's say the you take out the contact variable and say that every hit you make optimum contact. The faster the ball the more energy that is transfered to the bat and in turn transfered back to the ball. An of course a heavier bat will always transfer more energy to the ball than the lighter bat when speed is not a variable, but it is the speed of the bat that matters the most. If these 10 year olds could swing as fast with a heavy bat as they do with the light ones than by all means use the heavier bat. Take this example if a batter holds a bat still over home plate and a pitcher throws a ball and strikes the ball with good contact the heavier bat should transfer more energy back to the ball than a lighter bat, however to hit the ball out of the infield a batter must swing the bat. Using the equation E=mc^2 speed is squared.
Now as far as rotaional hitting most of a batter's bat speed is generated by the lower half and the wrists do very little. Their main part is to hold the bat in place. You also mentioned getting through the ball, and I say that any speed gained after bat and ball contact takes place is wasted. If you swing a bat at 80mph and a ball is pitched at 80mph when contact is made the initial contact is 160mph, however the ball will not jump off the bat at 160 because of some energy being lost to sound energy and heat engery and through absorbtion, but it will be traveling much faster than 80mph. Bat speed must be generated early in the swing or it is wasted effort. Getting through the ball means you would speed up the bat to match the exit speed of the ball and help to push the ball forward, but this is not possible due to the amount of time the bat and ball come in contact with each other... fractions of a second.

quote:

Their timing may be off, but that is why they will learn to get quicker with their hands

Quick Hands is a keyword for teaching linear hitting.

Hands are important even in a rotational swing.


My son has a -11, 18 oz bat and a -9, 19 oz bat and he hits better with the -9.That is power and average.


Take a look for yourself.No way we are going to work backwards.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEjeotQgQtU

quote:

Originally posted by ChrisWagner:

quote:

Their timing may be off, but that is why they will learn to get quicker with their hands

Quick Hands is a keyword for teaching linear hitting.

So....the way you teach the hitter doesn't use his hands??? He only uses his lower body??? Can a one armed guy hit the ball as far as a guy with two if they are the same size???