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I want to start by saying this is not me being unrealistic or feeling entitled to playing time. 

I have a 2022 who is currently bouncing back and forth between JV and varsity. He is a better SS than the current varsity SS by both the eye test and the in game performances. At practice the kids mention and joke about it, everybody knows.  Only problem - he is the returning starter, the coaches son, and only a junior. So two more years of this. 

Is there a right way to approach this? The starter is a decent player and I don't expect poor performance to be an issue. But my 2019 is a P5 commit who committed fall of sophomore year and the younger one is way better than he was at that age, so I have a good idea of what I'm seeing here. 

Obviously this is not something I will ever speak to any of the coaches about but is this something the other players need to do? Something the other coaches need to bring up or is it just the situation and you deal with it? Admittedly, he is not as strong at third, considering he has never played the position and the second baseman mashes. So the swapping positions isn't in the cards. The school system is great so not considering a transfer either. 

I'm not one to cry daddy ball, especially because the other kid is a competent player, but I also don't want to see the same thing unfold next year. Any advice? 

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I don't mean this as an attack on you, but the blunt way to say this is that it's none of your business. Your son is old enough that he should speak for himself if he considers it an issue. Nothing good can come from you talking to the coach.

You most definitely should present your son with the options (say nothing, talk to the varsity coach, as the JV coach, or transfer schools) and let you son decide.

As much as we want to help our sons and see them succeed, there comes a time when we have to let them fight their own battles and make their own way.

Learn third.  It will help him in college if there's a better player already at SS when he gets there. Grow his skills.  

I assume your son plays SS on JV, shine there and change the V coaches mind with performance.  Make it so obvious that the coach cannot deny it. Get better.

Line-up and possition decisions are not something parents can control.   Don't waste time trying. 

Tough spot. My kid was in that position as a freshman, the starting SS was a senior...could NOT hit and was average on the dirt. My son got to start a few games but not many. I tend to think it was an experience thing with our coach along with some loyalties. Patience and performance usually make things work out as you are not in an unreasonable situation. Good luck.

Sorry to read about DB at this level. I agree woth Kos and also think this is an issue your son has to deal with. My kid is an utility player on his frosh team. They are finding a way to keep him on the field and hit with a roster of 18. He is fine with it and will use every opportunity given to him to show why he belongs on the field and in the batting line up. To quote William Munny "deserves got nothing to do with it"

Last edited by 2022NYC

PA,

Tough spot for sure.  I'm in total agreement with Bandera.   If this was my son, I'd suggest your son learn a new position for the time being..even outfield if necessary.   It may be beneficial down the road as you don't know what lies ahead in 4 years.   Possibly your son runs into a log jam at SS in college...what is he going to do then?  If he cracks the lineup now, he's gets to bat and show what he can do at the plate.  The quickest way to a coaches heart (besides sharing his DNA) is raking it at the plate.  ;-)

Good luck!

 

Tough spot.  Kid in our high school was blocked by football coach's son at QB.  Kid was a far superior player.  After discussing with coach and AD, forced to r-eclass at a private school. 

Kid is now literally top 10 high school QB, with offers to Michigan, UCLA, NC State, Vandy, you name it.  Daddy Ball let the best football our high school will ever see walk.  And, oh yeah, I think we won 6 games the past 2 seasons combined.

Be encouraging but the one big thing is what does your 2019 think?  If my son who is a 2019 also thought something was wrong, he would have the ability to go to the coach and say it.  I also know that a ss has to be able to play multiple positions for high level travel and college.  The starting ss at the college my son is going to attend for the past two years was moved to third this year and one coming in this year was moved to second and another is playing first and another is playing center field.  You have to be able to play multiple positions  One of the easiest ways to get noticed. 

I agree with others....take this opportunity to learn whatever position he can play if it gets him on the field.  Son's freshman class at college had 6 kids....5 of them were the starting SS on their HS team (4 were all state).  None of those 5 have played ONE inning at SS since they got there.  One has been a 4 year starter at second.  1 is the starter in RF, 1 has played some 1B and 3B, my son is the DH and the last kid transferred.  There's only 1 SS position...but 8 other spots need defense and bats.  Heck, at one point we had kids that were recruited as catchers playing RF and LF.  If you can play, you'll play...sure everyone wants to be the SS, but anything is better than being on the bench

Pa, where does 2022 play when he is brought up?  And, does he play ss for his travel team?  Assuming he stays on the same track with his progression and talent, he will likely be the V ss junior and senior year, right?  I don't think that is an unusual path, even for very talented players, in a good program for a variety of reasons - even if more talented than the guy in front of them.  So, how he handles things meanwhile is very important (maintaining good attitude and team focus, even toward the coach's son).  Very good lessons for next level and other life-related scenarios.

Another glass-half-full thing to note is that he is being moved back and forth so sounds like they are at least making sure he continues to get game reps somewhere.

Side note...   Meanwhile, If 2022 continues to gain ground on coach son, at some point in the next year and a half, coach will hear/feel pressure to react.  He may or may not do so but things do change.  That pressure will be applied from other sources.  Definitely something you want to stay clear of.

PS - regarding your question as to whether the other players or coaches should bring this up... keep in mind, they are in a very tough spot too... how do they, in effect, say something negative about the boss' son to the boss?  The pressure will likely come from elsewhere or by accident (coach overhears player rumblings).  An asst. coach would have to be a very astute diplomat to navigate those waters.   

Last edited by cabbagedad

Given that your older boy is a Power 5 recruit, I take it you're aware of the process and from that, I'm going to guess that your 2022 is going to be fine in that process as well.

There are a lot of reasons to leave a top freshman on JV.  For one, it gives him the opportunity to establish himself as the leader among his classmates.  For another, he may be needed to pitch at that level -- something he is likely unprepared for at the varsity level.  Some would also like to see a top player hit .450 on JV, instead of .225 on varsity, just from a confidence-building standpoint.  All of which is to say, you may see bias that isn't really the root cause.

Worst case, your kid plays another position this year and next, then has 2 years as the lead dog.  I don't see a problem here.  BTW, even coaches' sons pull hamstrings and such, so don't assume you'll have to wait even that long.

The big question we always get about our infielders is, can they play OF?  If you look at the rosters of most elite college teams, the starting lineups are full of former HS shortstops.  Why?  Because on most HS teams, the SS is simply the top athlete on the roster.  In college, only one ultimately gets the SS job.  The one with less range moves to 3B, the one with a weaker arm plays 2B, the one with an erratic arm plays 1B, and the fast ones who struggle with grounder or turning the DP move to the OF.  The really slow-footed kid with the cannon arm might get tried behind the plate.

In your son's case, there's only one SS position to go around, but there are 3 OF slots.  I would suggest your son work on shagging flies for now and make himself available.  If he's one of the best 9 bats available, he'll play. 

Maybe he'll go back to SS in due time.  Or maybe he won't.  Some folks discover they like another position more.  At one point in time, both Willie Mays and Henry Aaron were shortstops.

Don't know the situation, but it would seem like something's missing. To me, your kids only way on the field (assuming he is good enough) isn't just to beat out the "coach's son." If he should be the starting SS it seems like he should be able to beat out at least one other position; 2b, 3b, LF or maybe even RF if he can hit at the varsity level. It may not be as much about the daddy ball process as it seems. 

Again, I don't know the situation, but I know we have a pretty good junior SS and a pretty good freshman SS. The freshman simply doesn't hit consistently well enough yet to take over a spot, but he has played in varsity games at SS, 3b, 2b and LF. He's our everyday JV SS so he can develop his freshman year.

I will also tell you the story of Keith Werman, a class of 2008 grad from a high school in northern VA.

Keith's older brother, Kyle, had been the starting 2B at UVA before the current group of coaches came in, and kept that job for his senior year after they got there.  Keith's dad coached Legion ball, so suffice it to say, he came from a baseball family.

He was a smaller kid, but had a Flutie-like arm and could definitely tackle SS.  He ended up as a recruited walk-on at UVA. 

His senior year, you might think should've been his personal victory lap. 

But his HS team's only real catcher had graduated in 2007, and the next guys up were young and not ready for prime time.  So Keith VOLUNTEERED to go behind the plate. 

The result:  His team won its district, maybe its region (not sure at this point.) I am sure that Keith was his region's AAA player of the year.

What becomes of a kid who does that for his team, you may wonder?  Well, he got to UVA, but no one really thought he'd play much.  Too small for the ACC, was the consensus.

In Keith's case, every one of his 4 years, some one expected a hot shot UVA recruit to take his job.  He never had any real power, after all.  He might get a triple if he lined one right over the bag.  The outfield always played him shallow. 

But every year, he won out, started, and produced, mostly at 2B.

BTW, the starting 2B the year before him, Phil Gosselin, remains a major leaguer to this day.  His MLB position is primarily SS, but he plays all the infield positions.  But Gosselin played a lot of left field his last three years at UVA.

Perhaps that's because Werman beat him out.  Or maybe it's because Gosselin, too, embraced the team concept and saw that the team as a whole was better if both he and Werman were in the lineup at the same time.  And maybe that's part of why Gosselin is still drawing pro paychecks to this day.

Several years ago Florida State had an all conference shortstop. A coach was fired from another college. He was brought in as an assistant. The assistant was a buddy of the head coach. He brought his starting shortstop son with him (just before sit out a year transfer rules).

Looking into the future the assistant’s son didn’t make the majors. But the all conference shortstop volunteered to move to catcher. He became an all star catcher for the San Francisco Giants.

Last edited by RJM
Coach Koz posted:

I don't mean this as an attack on you, but the blunt way to say this is that it's none of your business. Your son is old enough that he should speak for himself if he considers it an issue. Nothing good can come from you talking to the coach.

You most definitely should present your son with the options (say nothing, talk to the varsity coach, as the JV coach, or transfer schools) and let you son decide.

As much as we want to help our sons and see them succeed, there comes a time when we have to let them fight their own battles and make their own way.

None taken, although I did directly mention that I would not do any of those things.

Even though it is not directly my business, it is something that definitely involves me. The kid feels he is better, wants to practice with varsity everyday, wants to get better playing with older guys, wants to start for and represent his school. I can't blame him. He's in high school and will handle it himself, I'm not going to intervene, but he's also 14 and hasn't had many "business" conversations with adults, I'm just trying to give some advice without using the daddy ball excuse. 

 
cabbagedad posted:

Pa, where does 2022 play when he is brought up?  And, does he play ss for his travel team?  Assuming he stays on the same track with his progression and talent, he will likely be the V ss junior and senior year, right?  I don't think that is an unusual path, even for very talented players, in a good program for a variety of reasons - even if more talented than the guy in front of them.  So, how he handles things meanwhile is very important (maintaining good attitude and team focus, even toward the coach's son).  Very good lessons for next level and other life-related scenarios.

Another glass-half-full thing to note is that he is being moved back and forth so sounds like they are at least making sure he continues to get game reps somewhere.

Side note...   Meanwhile, If 2022 continues to ground on coach son, at some point in the next year and a half, coach will hear/feel pressure to react.  He may or may not do so but things do change.  That pressure will be applied from other sources.  Definitely something you want to stay clear of.

PS - regarding your question as to whether the other players or coaches should bring this up... keep in mind, they are in a very tough spot too... how do they, in effect, say something negative about the boss' son to the boss?  The pressure will likely come from elsewhere or by accident (coach overhears player rumblings).  An asst. coach would have to be a very astute diplomat to navigate those waters.   

He's been getting ABs late in games and innings in the field at SS and 3B (although it isn't always pretty at third). He has always played SS for his travel teams but will be moving up to big boy travel this summer and his coach made it clear that he's taking 5 SS and they will be rotating between SS/2B/3B, which is how I think it should be done. He will be learning third for the rest of spring/summer, but for now even I would not start him there. The second baseman kills the ball and should absolutely be starting. I'm not sure he is at the level of the other OFs for now either. 

He's not above Jv, but the problem that I'm seeing is that JV is kind of a joke. A joke as in the coaches don't care and the kids aren't really there to get better. Most of the time they will be rotating innings and getting an AB a game. It is more of a keep them interested and see what we have next year type situation. That is part of the reason I'm asking this to begin with, it goes beyond the starter issue. 

But I agree with everything you said. I'm not worried about him or his baseball future, that will work itself out. It is not  a great situation for anybody, coach included, especially if his son starts struggling. 

PABaseball posted:
 He's in high school and will handle it himself, I'm not going to intervene, but he's also 14 and hasn't had many "business" conversations with adults, I'm just trying to give some advice without using the daddy ball excuse. 
 

Believe me, I get it. I have a 13 year old and I know I have to bite my tongue sometimes as well as push him to be hos own man. A kid growing up is tough on parents, too.

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