Coach wants to change son's swing

Maybe the coach is right and you're wrong. A 10 ab sample doesn't guarentee he has a good swing.

Either way, if you or your kid tells the coach hes wrong, thats a good way to get on a pooplist.

Do you have a video of his swing?

I agree - I wouldn't be so quick to do anything yet. The coach may be making an adjustment that will tremendously help your son......or he could be screwing him up royally. Regardless any change - good or bad - will not feel comfortable. Change takes time and it takes reps. The more he does the new thing the more comfortable he will become with it. I've seen many kids fail because the change being made "wasn't comfortable" yet it was the right thing to do but they only gave it a few chances.

Now on to the more important question - what is the coach wanting to change? Video would be greatly helpful for us to make a determination if your son has a good swing and / or if the change would be a good idea or not.

quote:

Either way, if you or your kid tells the coach hes wrong, thats a good way to get on a pooplist.

I agree completely with this statement. Regardless if you are right or not if you come at this coach with "my son has done this since such and such time, played this and that team and been taught by so and so" he will not react very favorably. You will get on the pooplist very quickly.

Be a little patient and see how this plays out.

Thanks for the feedback and suggestions. I will give it a chance before I say anything to the coach.

Also if hes in high school you should never talk to the coach directly. Its time for your sone to start acting like an adult and dealing with his own issues.

Playing high school baseball is his experience, not yours.

I would question any coach trying to change a players swing with season started or close to starting. Time to make those changes (if needed) was/is in off season.

Having said that, are you sure coach is trying to make drastic changes or just tweaking some things to improve his current swing?

Big difference between the two. One can be done (tweaking/littleadjustments)as often as between at bats with advanced hitters-the other, "changing a swing" as noted, takes thousands of swings to "de-learn" and then "re-learn." Thus why it is done in off season.

Without knowing what the coach is trying to change, or seeing the swing; I would venture a guess coach is simply tweaking. In which case you might want to see if it in fact helps your son.

That question mark of not knowing, as already stated by Walawala, means you may want to make sure you know exactly what you are about to lock horns with a coach about. Especially considering the coach by all accounts-holds your sons HS baseball future in his hands.

Please keep in mind Your minor league hitting coach unfortunately does not have any stake in the HS coaches decisions going forward.

Caution: as I am sure you will hear more about from others on here; your implied indifference towards the coach will (not may)effect how your son perceives him so take it or leave it- if it is not too late, use some discretion in that regard.

What are the changes?

My son went through the same thing in HS. The coach wanted to change his swing - something about hitting down on the ball and squashing a bug. Son was a rotational hitter and had been successful at that. We let our son handle it. I think he basically nodded and hit as told in practice and then when at bat in games did his own thing. Now.... he was successful doing his own thing. Had he not been successful then maybe there would have been more pressure to change and squash that bug . Bottom line - let your son handle it.

I would add when your son does ask the coach why the need for the change (tweak) something like "hey coach how will this help me?" that the coach (teacher)should be able to provide him with an answer that he will not only understand but perhaps recognize as making sense and beneficial to his swing.

That scenario played out represents a mature player asking a legit question where the coach "will respect that the player asked" and will love even more that he was able to provide him with sound advice. "Win-win" = coachable kid and teaching moment all wrapped up in one!

That answer may also be all you need to know to understand it will be a beneficial tweak as well.

Welcome to the site and high school ball. My first advice is never reference back to preteen, small field ball. There are plenty of preteen studs not playing high school ball. Now that he's in high school what matters is now and his future upside.

Your son played 17/18U showcase ball after 8th grade? I've seen plenty of talented players do showcase ball after 10th grade. But not 8th grade. Your son must be the stud of the region in his age group.

Do you understand hitting? Does your son understand hitting? If so, have your son explain what the coach is saying. Then you can determine if the high school coach knows what he's talking about.

Don't be closed to taking advice from different hitting instructors. My son has had lessons from three hitting instructors. All were good. The one who changed his swing was the right coach for my son. The changes were made after his soph year of high school after hitting over .300 in his first year on varsity. You should have seen the look in my son's eyes when he came home explaining the coach wanted to change his swing. I told him to pay atention and bring home what the coach said. I know hitting. I couldn't disagree.

Here's some welcome to high school sports advice. My son is now a senior. He played two sports. There are many instances where parents became upset with coaches over things that never make their kids radar screens.

I used to think my son's varsity baseball coach was a jerk. Then I found out my son sees him as a strict coach who sometimes overreacts verbally in game situations. He also sees him as funny. Parents see him as the coach showing up players. But my son said the coach makes it up with a funny side in practice. When the coach overreacts in games the kids laugh it off as his game face. But they know he's behind them and in to win. Parents don't see what goes on in practice.

Moral of the story: Don't prejudge the coach.

Have your son try the changes, and if not comfortable he needs to tell his coach he is not comfortable with it.

It seems strange in the first day the coach is changing his swing. Minor tweaks I can understand but not big changes.

My youngest went through something similar. Sometimes there are minor changes to be made to be able to hit consistantly at the next level.

Hang in there. Communication is key!

Lefty.

I am in the same boat as you. I have told my son to be polite and to continue with his own swing. He has played up in travel ball and consistently hits well above 400. When he plays with his own age he has never hit below 600. Since August til the end of travel ball season he had 5 homeruns. Point I am making is that he has been hitting this way for 4+ years and it works for him. With all his hard work he has just started to get some legit power. I have always told him that someone will try and eventually change his swing. When someone in the past has tried to change it, after a couple of at bats they leave him alone. For some reason in high school they keep saying something to him. It is one thing to try and "tweak" his swing, but to try to change it all together? I just do not get it.

During recent tryouts 3 Varsity players told me that my son was the best hitter, fielder and one of the fastest players there. Son was told he needed to work on his mechanics and made jv. Every practice so far one of the coaches has commented on his swing. I told son that he is in High school now and he needs to speak for himself. He understands that.

I am uncomfortable talking about my son, do not want it coming across like I am "bragging". I cannot stand parents like that, I always told my son to "let his play talk". I just wanted ya'll to get a good picture of the situation.

Thank you for "listening".

Wedge, welcome to the forum.

quote:

I am going to watch a practice before I say anything.

He is in high school let him figure it out.

You don't know what you don't know.

At some point every player needs to figure out what works for him and where he needs to go with his swing. I'd recomend listening, tyring the suggestion once or twice, evaluating it, and then decding to go with it or not. It works this way at all levels of baseball and you have to learn to deal with it. Unilatereally telling a coach you won't try something won't get you too far, trying what he has to say and then letting him know "it didn't fell right" when he asks will get you much furher..... and you'll learn more.

All good advice: the player needs to talk to the coach, not the parent and maybe it will be a good improvement. Hopefully the coach is tweaking at this stage of the pre-season.

We are aware of a coach who insists all players slide head-first into second when stealing. Many parents disagree because of injuries, particularly to pitchers' hands. Saw the coach call out a player for forgetting, then the next time on base called for a steal when the kid didn't have a chance. But, but player did slide head first. He was out by a mile but the coach was pleased - it was an obvious test to see if he would do as he was instructed.

We have found that questioning or disagreeing with a coach is a good way to earn bench time.

Let me join the chorus of parents telling you to forget about talking to the coach about how he is instructing your son.

He's in high school now. Unless there is a safety or health issue, stay out of it. Give him all the advice you want, but let HIM handle his relationship with the coaching staff.

It is completely normal for coaches to change young players' hitting approaches. Sometimes they are good changes, and sometimes they are not. Your son will have to figure out how to deal with this, and it will not be the last time.

If he doesn't show some effort at making the changes they want, then he will get the reputation with the staff as being uncoachable.

My son faced the same thing at various levels of play. He tried what they told him, made his own interpretations and adjustments, and they saw him doing it. Eventually they left his swing alone as they saw him succeed with the style and approach he developed, using their input, his interpretation, and the natural adjustments any kid would make as the levels of pitching get higher.

This is a process every player goes through. If you and/or your son approach it with an attitude of "I know hitting, and I won't change anything," not only will his hitting not improve as much as it otherwise would, it is more likely that he won't get a lot of playing time.

Let your boy navigate this by himself, and stay out from between the chalk lines. If you don't start letting him do it now, he won't learn how.

High School Coaches.
Sigh.
There must be some good ones but there are a lot of duds that do a lot of damage, tho, frankly, I saw it more in pitching than hitting. Or maybe its just that bad coaching re hitting damages the swing while bad coaching in pitching damages the arm and that can be a games ender.

What you hear a lot about here with respect to being careful and not poisoning the water with the coach is true but if your kid is a pitcher you need to remain ever vigilant. You MUST step in if the designated pitching coach is a demonstrable moron; your boy only comes with 2 arms and most only throw well with one.

Coaches here: WHY is it that a HS coach who seems to run a program fairly well in most respects will allow a "pitching coach" to line up 8 pitchers, all with different ages, body types, arm slots etc and insist that they all start over, in season, with a 1,2,3,4,5 then 6 approach reducing them all to the level of the non athlete teacher who is the "pitching coach".

Why would a head coach allow this pitching coach to pull out his starting pitcher in a state tournament a 1/2 hour before game start and "work with him" for that half hour on a mound making (major not minor) damaging changes to his mechanics?

My boys are all off in college now and I generally try to stay out of these discussions but really, there is SO much damage done......

quote:

Originally posted by wedge:
During recent tryouts 3 Varsity players told me that my son was the best hitter, fielder and one of the fastest players there. Son was told he needed to work on his mechanics and made jv. Every practice so far one of the coaches has commented on his swing. I told son that he is in High school now and he needs to speak for himself. He understands that.

If he hasn't yet played on varsity, maybe the hitting coach is trying to help him improve some parts of his swing that he doesn't think will continue to have the same success on varsity as he has had growing up? For example, most of the hitters on my son's JV team last year, I believe, will struggle mightily to hit varsity pitching this year. Long, loopy, early elbow-slotting, barrel-dumping slow swings that manage contact and even power vs. JV pitching, but might not even sniff a foul ball vs. varsity.

As others have said, without video, we have no idea how much help vs. hindrance your son's new coach is.

quote:

Originally posted by gehay1:
My son is a freshman this year. He has played travel ball since age 10. Last summer he was on a showcase team. He has what I think is a good swing. In his last ten at bats in showcase games he had 8 solid line drive hits. He has been working with a minor league manager on hitting since age 11. He had his first high school practice today and one coach is trying to change his swing. My son is not comfortable with this. I am going to watch a practice before I say anything. Any suggestions on how to approach this coach?

Maybe he sees a flaw that will affect your son from being able to adjust to hitting varsity level off speed pitches.I have seen plenty of kids who ate up fastballs at the pre-high school level become easy outs because they could not adjust to quality off-speed pitches in hs.

Parents who lump most coaches in the same category because they have one bad experience.....

Sigh

quote:

Must be some good ones out there but there are a lot of duds that do a lot of damage.

So how many coaches across the country have you seen that makes you qualified to make this statement? Out of all the THOUSANDS of high school coaches throughout the nation would it be safe to say you've seen 80% to say "there MUST be some good ones but there are a lot of duds"?

I will agree with you that are some duds out there but to lump the majority into the bad category is not appropriate.

As for your question

quote:

WHY is it that a HS coach who seems to run a program fairly well in most respects will allow a "pitching coach" to line up 8 pitchers, all with different ages, body types, arm slots etc and insist that they all start over, in season, with a 1,2,3,4,5 then 6 approach reducing them all to the level of the non athlete teacher who is the "pitching coach".

I have no earthly idea and won't begin to try and figure it out. But I also don't understand why you said he reduced the pitchers to the level of the non-athlete teacher who is the "pitching coach". What does that mean exactly? Are you saying this guy is so un-athletic there is no way he can be a pitching coach - hence the use of " " around pitching coach?

I have a question for you - why do parents start up some kinda "elite" travel super stars team when they have no clue about the game? Especially when junior never sniffed the field during high school due to the fact he wasn't better than anybody else on the field.

"He has been working with a minor leage manager on hitting since age 11"

Is this manager a hitting instructor? I will preface my comments assuming yes...That would mean to me that he has worked with hitters of all ages in every level of play.

If that is the case then I would speak with your son's instructor about these issues as opposed to a message board regarding the effectiveness that the changes are supposed to bring out in your son's game.

If the reason you ask is to try to understand how to deal with your son's coach, then you have come to the right place, even if it is just to provide a place where you can vent. Because if you vent to the coach you will be doing harm to your son. It is a difficult situation.

I can relate because we took our son to high level professional instructors since my guy was around 10, just as you have done. I know that my son's instructor has instilled the belief in my son that he can hit and hit well from just about any position. The person we have is a strong believer in "hands" and quick to the ball, powered by the lower half.

My guy had to change his swing to be in the lineup his first year of college. He made the adjustment which resulted in a loss of power and hit close to .400 with numerous extra base hits and homeruns. The following year he changed schools so that he could hit with his correct swing the following year.

The point is, if your son can hit...he can hit. But he needs to be in the line-up to do that. If you create (or he) problems with the coach he will not be in the line up and you will be very frustrated.

I would schedule an appointment with his instructor and have the two of them analyze what the coach is requesting, discuss the issue, and have the two of them arrive at a solution. That is what you see this guy for, he needs to be able to help your son make this adjustment, both physically and mentally.

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
Parents who lump most coaches in the same category because they have one bad experience.....

Sigh

quote:

Must be some good ones out there but there are a lot of duds that do a lot of damage.

So how many coaches across the country have you seen that makes you qualified to make this statement? Out of all the THOUSANDS of high school coaches throughout the nation would it be safe to say you've seen 80% to say "there MUST be some good ones but there are a lot of duds"?

I will agree with you that are some duds out there but to lump the majority into the bad category is not appropriate.

As for your question

quote:

WHY is it that a HS coach who seems to run a program fairly well in most respects will allow a "pitching coach" to line up 8 pitchers, all with different ages, body types, arm slots etc and insist that they all start over, in season, with a 1,2,3,4,5 then 6 approach reducing them all to the level of the non athlete teacher who is the "pitching coach".

I have no earthly idea and won't begin to try and figure it out. But I also don't understand why you said he reduced the pitchers to the level of the non-athlete teacher who is the "pitching coach". What does that mean exactly? Are you saying this guy is so un-athletic there is no way he can be a pitching coach - hence the use of " " around pitching coach?

I have a question for you - why do parents start up some kinda "elite" travel super stars team when they have no clue about the game? Especially when junior never sniffed the field during high school due to the fact he wasn't better than anybody else on the field.

LOL would that it had been one bad experience.

You are right of course re sample size. I'm not a professional high school coaching assessor. I didnt search out travel teams or change high schools based upon program strength. Im just your average parent that was exposed to high school coaching only thru what 3 boys in different age groups ran into. Maybe like a lot of parents who visit this site? The only school change was the 3rd boy changing from a 4A to a 6A school for academic not athletic reasons.

The nonathlete comment references my personal prejudice that no other sort of person could have been pleased by the fact that formerly fluid deliveries were reduced to stop and go disasters.
The italics must be self explanatory surely.

Elite teams set up by parents with "no clue about the game"? No idea. Never been there. Is that even possible? Assembly of an elite team would seem to require some level of knowledge.

See. Never should have posted. Im not trying to attack good coaches, or even bad ones. Im just trying to balance the "keep out of it, let the player deal with it himself" lobby that is prevalent here. I learned the hard way that the coaches you run into cannot be counted on to have the right approach or to do the right thing for the players. Orthopedic consultations and elbow MRI imaging is expensive. Far more expensive/painful is the knowledge I should have done more to protect my son from abuse. 'Cuz thats what it is.
Parents need to be as vigilant in the athletic programs as in the parking lots.

Assuming he is that qualified instructor, yeah, what Florida said

noreply I will definately agree with you on two points. First there are some horrible high school coaches out there who don't know the first thing about the game. Some are guys taking up a check and some are guys who take the job because nobody else will. The first guy is useless and the second guy is doing a nice thing but both can get players hurt. Which brings me to my second point I agree with you. Parents need to be aware if the coach is putting the player's health in jeopardy. I've seen it happen and a coach will ignore a kid's health just to pick up a win. I won't do it and I've taken one or two butt kickin's because I didn't want to push a pitcher due to threat of injury.

I'm a little sensitive when people just lump high school coaches into a bad category. I didn't think it was appropriate or necessary to insult the pitching coach because you didn't like what he was doing. I've been the victim of "know it all" parents who have publically trashed my name because they didn't like what I was teaching. Due to me going through this I'm quick to defend HS coaches when they are generally lumped into a bad category.

Again, you're right. Manpower is often an issue. Probably here. I wouldnt actually ***** about it if it was just a matter of not liking what the pitching coach was doing; its the resultant injury that still rankles.

I was/am generally quite comfortable with the head coach. The "dangertime" was when exposed to the pitching coach, the final straw being when he went well past a headcoach set pitch count limit to win a meaningless final game in a HS summer tournament.
(Headcoach was absent.) Last game he ever threw in.

The vast majority of high school players dont play beyond HS. The goal of the vast majority of parents of those players, as well as the much smaller group of elite player parents, should be to avoid lasting injury. One thing you need to watch out for is bad coaching.

I dont claim to know it all, never did. But I still dont understand how a head coach can let a pitching coach, or a hitting coach, do things that are obviously damaging to the kids.

I don't know if these things have already been said but ...
The coach makes up the line-up so it's always in your son's best interest to listen politely and give what he says a try. The worst way to start any conversation with a coach is "Yeah, but my private instructor/showcase coach wants me to ____"
If your son hits the heck out of the ball, no coach is going to care how he does it.
There is always something to learn even if the person sounds incompetent. One of my father's quotes was "You may know 90% of baseball and the other guy may know 10%. However, his 10% may be the 10% you don't know - so don't write off anyone!"
On the big picture side, your son will get some valuable experience in the art of diplomacy!

I wouldn't be too concerned. He's still young.

I'm sorry your son got hurt through a situation like this. If I was the head coach this guy wouldn't be my pitching coach any longer. I understand where you're coming from now. Injuries happen but they shouldn't happen like this.

You are dealt the hand you're dealt when it comes to high school coaches. Some get good ones and some get bad ones. Either way it's still the job of the player to get better through hard work and listening. Look at it like this - a good coach is going to see a kid hit and the ball just flies off the bat. The coaching remark here should be "good job son" or "nice job - keep it up". But a bad coach will try to make changes. The good thing is that if he's trying to change the swing then he's probably not very good so he won't realize you haven't made any changes.

Interesting. This topic happens more frequently than not. I would say that if it was his freshman year in college - I would heed the coaches wishes, but since this is freshman year in HS...there will be complications. Part of hitting is fundamentals and much lies with comfort zone. He must have had a decent travel ball coach as well as the current minor league manager.

You NEED to let your son speak up via protocul. Have him explain his wishes. I am sure you know this but not many HS coaches are "on campus" so you might be dealing with a frustrated ex jock that wants to fix everything - however it can be the buddy system in high school. On campus head coach hires his buddies but they are usually off campus-type guys. As we all know everyone is an expert now a days. There are internet hitting guru's 24/7 who are attempting to prove to themselves that they know it better.
When dads ask me to work with their son/nephew/daughter - this pupil has most likely been either pushed to or been with every so called hitting coach who the dad is friends with or has heard of. Thus when I meet the pupil he may not be a willing participant. I always try to form a relationship by asking the pupil: "What don't you like about your swing".
Many kids are shocked at this approach because at least 85% of HIT DOCTORS are either cookie cutters or they try to FIX EVERYTHING.

About 3 years ago it dawned on me that you can conceivably "fix" someone inside a sterile cage, but you need that transfer factor when taking it out on the diamond. Usually that doesn't happen to the degree that the hitter - coach or dad approves of. That said I've recently decided that at several levels of youth sports - a coach has to let it go.

There is SO much to teach correctly about the game of baseball that we've recently tried "winning" - with or inspite of the individual flaws of our hitters. Remarkably when this is attempted kids will relax more and THEN spend more time on-the- side working on their repective weaknesses. With this concept we've beeen able to work more on strike zone discipline - two strike hitting and quality at bats (putting the ball in play)

Hang in there and make sure the communication at least starts with your son and the coach and NOT you and the coach. If your son succeeds with his mechanics vs. something else, I can't see how the staff would object.

quote:

So how many coaches across the country have you seen that makes you qualified to make this statement?

What is being qualified have to do with telling people they do not know what they are doing?

For the original poster, a few rules for dealing with High School coaches:

1. Assume the HS coach is an idiot.
2. Continue to get "real" coaching from your select/travel/private lesson coaches as they are undoubtedly more qualified as you pay them directly.
3. Realize that success as an 11-, 12-, and especially 13-year old will always translate into success at the varsity level. No changes necessary.
4. Realize that success at the varsity level doesn't really matter anyway.
5. If at any time your son struggles, refer to Rule #1.

quote:

Originally posted by ironhorse:
For the original poster, a few rules for dealing with High School coaches:

1. Assume the HS coach is an idiot.
2. Continue to get "real" coaching from your select/travel/private lesson coaches as they are undoubtedly more qualified as you pay them directly.
3. Realize that success as an 11-, 12-, and especially 13-year old will always translate into success at the varsity level. No changes necessary.
4. Realize that success at the varsity level doesn't really matter anyway.
5. If at any time your son struggles, refer to Rule #1.

I'm thinking (hoping) this is sarcasm....

OK, my experience as follows. I have seen both sides to this. First, every kid that tries-out for my team was on a select team. Most have dads that start the team, select friends, and call it "select!" Second, major league, minor league experience is great and valuable, but does not always translate to correct. I had a private instructor call me once to tell me that he took a week long course in injuries to become a scout and I should not tell his students ANYTHING. I have a degree in kinesiology and a minor in athletic training (but what do I know, right?) Needless to say we had a very short conversation. I was very concerned about one of his / my pitcher's arm actions as well as a catcher's arm action. Neither wanted to change, both suffered the exact injuries I was concerned about, a year later for another summer team. I felt very bad for them because they are nice kids (now adults.) I do believe it is important to watch a kid and look at what they are doing already to see if change is necessary. Some believe in one way others, like myself, take what one has and tries to help make it better or consistent. Both can work. The main thing is to be open minded and listen to the ideas being offered because they might just make your son even better. If there is a problem with it, have your son talk to the coach. Most coaches only want the kids to succeed and are their to help them. NoReply, I am sorry for your experiences, but they are the minority and should be viewed as such.

I too hope Iron Horse (see above) is joking.

If not, that post has no business on this board.

I'm pretty sure from his #3 that he was clearly joking. NO ONE actually believes that (except delusional parents ).

I hope ironhorse is joking.If not as a former high school coach of 25 years I have a few choice words which can be let up to everybody's imagination.

ironhorse is just joking.....read some of his other post.

For you others that think hs coaches know nothing.....I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by hsballcoach:
NoReply, I am sorry for your experiences, but they are the minority and should be viewed as such.

You know, Im not sure that they are the minority to be honest.
I think we see a lot of good coaches posting here, and I think in areas of the country where the popularity of HS sports is high and programs are strong, there is a better level of coaching (or maybe I just hope there is I 'dunno.)
ITs sure been my experience tho, in the small sample size you come across just going to the local schools, that there is a lot of poor coaching going on, particularly in the assistant coach areas. Maybe "the elite" of the HS game that tends to congregate here doesnt see it because they are, obviously involved in stronger programs with better approaches.

A lot of the "coach perspective" posts imply that parents are whining and starting elite teams if their kids are not good enough to make the HS team. I think its important to realize that the kids who are obviously good enough to make the team, and do, can be placed at risk by some of these programs. Really, do you think programs that ride a dominant pitcher are all that rare? NEVER seen it in your conference/association?

Frankly, the kid not good enought to make the cut is not at risk for coach induced injury; The kid seen as good enough to become 1 or 2 in the rota is at risk.