http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gif What's sup brother Blue ?
Some of the Coaches do....not all are ill-informed.
Shep
Shep, true enough..... 
But, not many..........
But, not many..........
quote:Originally posted by BlueDog:
Shep, true enough.....
But, not many..........
My experience also..
Yeager measured Line Drive hitters at 8-10% upper cut and HR guys at 15%.
Swinging up has to be monitered. Swinging up can be intentional or premature collapsing of the back side. Getting on plane and hitting HRs by accident would be my choice
The best HS kids can rarely hit a high ball 66 degree past 350 unless he is really big.
Swinging up has to be monitered. Swinging up can be intentional or premature collapsing of the back side. Getting on plane and hitting HRs by accident would be my choice
The best HS kids can rarely hit a high ball 66 degree past 350 unless he is really big.
all i am saying is that if you are teaching a kid to swing down at a ball that is traveling down - you are gonna have some problems... not to mention the first being about a 5-7 inch contact area where the paths will meet - seeing how all baseballs travel on a downward plane...
too steep of a swing will have the same effect... the key is to match planes - and you do that by letting the front elbow work up in the swing... it works higher on lower pitches and not so high on pitches up in the zone...
and whoever said 38% of groundballs are hits, is crazy or are charting little league games... does anyone know a groundball hitter (besides Ichiro) who is batting .380??
neither do i.
too steep of a swing will have the same effect... the key is to match planes - and you do that by letting the front elbow work up in the swing... it works higher on lower pitches and not so high on pitches up in the zone...
and whoever said 38% of groundballs are hits, is crazy or are charting little league games... does anyone know a groundball hitter (besides Ichiro) who is batting .380??
neither do i.
Diablo
38% of groundballs being hits has nothing to do with a .380 BA--- you guys with the numbers are always out in left field---the game aint that mind boggling once you figure out what you can do and cant do with a bat in your hand
Look what Elias has done to the game--
38% of groundballs being hits has nothing to do with a .380 BA--- you guys with the numbers are always out in left field---the game aint that mind boggling once you figure out what you can do and cant do with a bat in your hand
Look what Elias has done to the game--
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
Diablo
38% of groundballs being hits has nothing to do with a .380 BA--- you guys with the numbers are always out in left field---the game aint that mind boggling once you figure out what you can do and cant do with a bat in your hand
Look what Elias has done to the game--
So is your point that Diablo is wrong and we should be teaching to swing down at the ball? And teaching to swing with the plane of the pitch is wrong? Or just let them swing and not teach?
TRhit... so you are saying that swinging down is good? and that is what you teach?
and if i do hit the ball on the ground, by YOUR numbers, 100% of the time, i will bat .380?? no??... explain your % to me then. i only took one elementary stats class in college....
and if the game is not THAT MIND BOGGLING, then why is the major component that seperates guys in triple-A and The Show 90% a mental factor?
and that is a MLB number (90%).. not mine...
p.s. if you do teach the swing level or swing down, where can i see a list of clients that were ever successful in college and or pro ball??
and if i do hit the ball on the ground, by YOUR numbers, 100% of the time, i will bat .380?? no??... explain your % to me then. i only took one elementary stats class in college....
and if the game is not THAT MIND BOGGLING, then why is the major component that seperates guys in triple-A and The Show 90% a mental factor?
and that is a MLB number (90%).. not mine...
p.s. if you do teach the swing level or swing down, where can i see a list of clients that were ever successful in college and or pro ball??
Last time I saw a hitter the barrel was started quite a bit above the strike zone. It has to feed down. If you want a level swing you would have to drop and sweep or start with the hands real low.
It all depends on what part of your swing you are trying to fix. If you are fixing the approach to the ball, you will talk about having the player keep the barrel up thus the "feeling" of swinging down on the backside of the body is probably an acceptable term.
If you are teaching/fixing the path of the bat during the middle/follow through phase of the swing, then you will need to talk to them about swinging slightly uphill to match the plane of the baseball. I agree with Diablo here.
I also think that if you are truly a hitting instructor/coach/father wanting to improve your son's swing, you need to take most terms and use them very loosely. Swinging up through the ball means a lot of things to different people. If your hitter can rotate their backhip and get it to clear so the hands can work, then you can use the "up-hill" swing plane. If the kid's hips don't work, don't bother teaching up-hill swing plane because he will only loop and hip-slide into the ball. Fix the hips first and get him rotating. Sometimes telling them to swing down will initiate the hips better and they will get into a better position to finish up-hill as they progress. It all depends on the player and what they have to work with.
If you are teaching/fixing the path of the bat during the middle/follow through phase of the swing, then you will need to talk to them about swinging slightly uphill to match the plane of the baseball. I agree with Diablo here.
I also think that if you are truly a hitting instructor/coach/father wanting to improve your son's swing, you need to take most terms and use them very loosely. Swinging up through the ball means a lot of things to different people. If your hitter can rotate their backhip and get it to clear so the hands can work, then you can use the "up-hill" swing plane. If the kid's hips don't work, don't bother teaching up-hill swing plane because he will only loop and hip-slide into the ball. Fix the hips first and get him rotating. Sometimes telling them to swing down will initiate the hips better and they will get into a better position to finish up-hill as they progress. It all depends on the player and what they have to work with.
quote:It all depends on the player and what they have to work with
I thought all players came with the same body parts......
Shep, help me here......I must getting senile.....
I didn't even know the swing should be taught in parts......
Bluedog's Right>
All hitters come with the same bodyparts and should be taught the same, correct way.
Really don't think the statement is referring to muscles/skeletal/tendons/ligaments though Blue; believe what is meant by statement is related more to level of teaching and taking player at present stage of development and enhancing further.
Good Morning Board.
Shep
All hitters come with the same bodyparts and should be taught the same, correct way.
Really don't think the statement is referring to muscles/skeletal/tendons/ligaments though Blue; believe what is meant by statement is related more to level of teaching and taking player at present stage of development and enhancing further.
Good Morning Board.
Shep
But, do you believe the swing should be taught in parts?.....
Say it ain't so, Joe......
Say it ain't so,
Joe......
No bro fo sho ! Definitely not taught in parts !peace
The body is a unit with many parts that has to work together in order to perform baseball related actions and movements. Don't know how else I can put it. Don't xcare who teaches it seperately that's what I believe and I'm sticking to it !!!!! peace
The body is a unit with many parts that has to work together in order to perform baseball related actions and movements. Don't know how else I can put it. Don't xcare who teaches it seperately that's what I believe and I'm sticking to it !!!!! peace
quote:Originally posted by BlueDog:
But, do you believe the swing should be taught in parts?.....
Say it ain't so,
I know you don't teach drills such as top hand or bottom hand. Do you then not believe in "count drills" where you try to get young players to "walk their way through a swing?" By young players, I'm talking up through 8th grade. I think this is one of the few places we disagree. We do count drill since, I'm probablly ignorant and just can't get some kids from blocking that backside. I think some would rather break their back legs than to rotate onto the top of their toes.
Also, if one teaches only a complete swing, then all drill work then is based soley on complete swing. Are you then suggesting that essentially BP with a coach monitoring and video is all that you need to do?
quote:Also, if one teaches only a complete swing, then all drill work then is based soley on complete swing.
Actually, I do value the use of drills alot....But, not drills putting hitters in positions to simulate parts of the swing....
I prefer drills which let hitters feel proper rotation, connection and the correct use of posture.....These types of drills can be useful in teaching hitting, fielding and running.....
IOW, drills which help the player learn how to use their middle to move their body in a more efficient manner.....
IMO, it's about knowing how to move the body in an efficient way....Not about where the hands or some other body part should be at a certain part of the swing..........If the body is moving efficiently to swing the bat, the body parts will be where they need to be for that particular hitter.....
When they learn the value of rotation, connection and correct posture, I put a bat in their hands.......Then, we work on how to power with the middle.....
Coach, someone alot more knowledgeable than myself has convinced me to change my teaching methods somewhat......I will send you a message.....
Coach, someone alot more knowledgeable than myself has convinced me to change my teaching methods somewhat......I will send you a message.....
Diablo and Troy
Never gave any conclusion--just a statement that the method of math used is not correct
Diablo-- what batter goes 100% of his at bats hitting the ball on the gorund ?
Never gave any conclusion--just a statement that the method of math used is not correct
Diablo-- what batter goes 100% of his at bats hitting the ball on the gorund ?
I respect the many people on here who are very knowledgable students of the game. What I don’t understand are the many words that are used for debate purposes.
For example, some of the greatest hitting people I know use many of the terms that others profess as useless or even damaging.
Bluedog, you and linear (info) are very serious students/teachers. You guys are good! However, I can’t buy every word written.
When you mention all players have the same body parts… You are correct! Problem is, all those body parts are NOT the same in every individual… Some are loaded with fast twitch muscles and some are not. Some have stronger hands (Not trying to start anything) others do not. Some have better vision (not trying to start anything) than others. Some have quicker hips, some are more coordinated, etc. etc.
Now if you’re saying “most” all hitters need to use these body parts efficiently, I understand. To say they all have the same body parts, doesn’t tell me anything. So do the pitchers who throw 95 and 65 have the same body parts. So do the runners who run a 6.4 and an 8.4.
I truthfully try to see what is happening in the swing of successful hitters even if it were to change my mind about something. I sincerely hope everyone does exactly that. For that I thank many on this site who have made me become even more interested than before about the benefit of watching and breaking down successful ML hitters.
Also, I believe when talking about the swing here we often speak in terms of the perfect swing at a pitch down the center of the strike zone. While this is definitely the starting point, it’s just a small part of being a total hitter. I hear the talk about posture and swing plane and that’s great stuff. I’d be more interested in talking more about something other than the “wheel house” swing. I’d like to read more about margin of error in hitting.
While I’m at it… There are those who study video religiously and bust it to pieces. There are those who say professional hitting coaches and professional hitters don’t have any idea of what they really do. Others do have the proof because of video evidence. Every MLB club uses video, are they not smart enough to analyze it correctly.
Where can anyone actually see on video that these professional hitters hands go soft at contact? We can really only learn that from hearing it from experienced hitters, it’s not apparent on video, is it? Where do we “see” they are not at least “thinking” about hitting through the ball”. How can video or science tell us what these people are thinking. It can only show us what their bodies are doing and granted, that is very important, but it’s just part of the answer. The rest lies in the minds of those truly outstanding hitting instructors and successful hitters. In other words, we need their feedback to know if their hands go soft. What if they were to claim something different. Do we argue that we know better? Am I missing something here? Think I already know the answer I’ll get to that question.
Final thought… Rather than everyone battle for supreme knowledge, wouldn’t it be wiser to use all possible information. The video, the scientists, the instructors, the hitters, each other and every other possibility. And be open to future information that may not be presently available! By the way, many of the martial arts use step by step teaching. Just something to think about. You gotta understand the association between mastering certain martial arts movements and baseball for that to mean anything.
That said, I enjoy the discussions and give thanks to BlueDog and the many other extremely advanced hitting students, coaches, teachers, etc. who start these interesting threads. If I were still coaching or had a young son this stuff would be even more valuable.
For example, some of the greatest hitting people I know use many of the terms that others profess as useless or even damaging.
Bluedog, you and linear (info) are very serious students/teachers. You guys are good! However, I can’t buy every word written.
When you mention all players have the same body parts… You are correct! Problem is, all those body parts are NOT the same in every individual… Some are loaded with fast twitch muscles and some are not. Some have stronger hands (Not trying to start anything) others do not. Some have better vision (not trying to start anything) than others. Some have quicker hips, some are more coordinated, etc. etc.
Now if you’re saying “most” all hitters need to use these body parts efficiently, I understand. To say they all have the same body parts, doesn’t tell me anything. So do the pitchers who throw 95 and 65 have the same body parts. So do the runners who run a 6.4 and an 8.4.
I truthfully try to see what is happening in the swing of successful hitters even if it were to change my mind about something. I sincerely hope everyone does exactly that. For that I thank many on this site who have made me become even more interested than before about the benefit of watching and breaking down successful ML hitters.
Also, I believe when talking about the swing here we often speak in terms of the perfect swing at a pitch down the center of the strike zone. While this is definitely the starting point, it’s just a small part of being a total hitter. I hear the talk about posture and swing plane and that’s great stuff. I’d be more interested in talking more about something other than the “wheel house” swing. I’d like to read more about margin of error in hitting.
While I’m at it… There are those who study video religiously and bust it to pieces. There are those who say professional hitting coaches and professional hitters don’t have any idea of what they really do. Others do have the proof because of video evidence. Every MLB club uses video, are they not smart enough to analyze it correctly.
Where can anyone actually see on video that these professional hitters hands go soft at contact? We can really only learn that from hearing it from experienced hitters, it’s not apparent on video, is it? Where do we “see” they are not at least “thinking” about hitting through the ball”. How can video or science tell us what these people are thinking. It can only show us what their bodies are doing and granted, that is very important, but it’s just part of the answer. The rest lies in the minds of those truly outstanding hitting instructors and successful hitters. In other words, we need their feedback to know if their hands go soft. What if they were to claim something different. Do we argue that we know better? Am I missing something here? Think I already know the answer I’ll get to that question.
Final thought… Rather than everyone battle for supreme knowledge, wouldn’t it be wiser to use all possible information. The video, the scientists, the instructors, the hitters, each other and every other possibility. And be open to future information that may not be presently available! By the way, many of the martial arts use step by step teaching. Just something to think about. You gotta understand the association between mastering certain martial arts movements and baseball for that to mean anything.
That said, I enjoy the discussions and give thanks to BlueDog and the many other extremely advanced hitting students, coaches, teachers, etc. who start these interesting threads. If I were still coaching or had a young son this stuff would be even more valuable.
quote:Where do we “see” they are not at least “thinking” about hitting through the ball”.
PGStaff, where do we see MLB hitters are thinking anything at all in the box?.....IMO, they shouldn't be.....You agree or disagree?...
