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21 replies

Coaching..IMO

TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
There seems to be the same discussion going on in different threads and I was not sure which one to post under, so therefore I start over.
All of you coaches, please don't attack my opinions or other parents opinions. We know it is a difficult job, whether you get paid or volunteer. what I say is not necessarily directed toward the coaches here. I am assuming coaches are coaching because they enjoy what they are doing, though some coaches enjoy the power trip and I cannot for the life of me figure out why parents put up with this.
As far as I am concerned a coach is a teacher, mentor and instructor. My son has been fortunate to have great coaches. He has learned lots from them. He treats them with respect and they treat him the same, if for some reason there is an issue, we have never hesitated to speak up (very few times) and I personally never cared if they didn't like it. He never lost playing time because his parents had legit concerns. In fact we have an issue with too much playing time now, you may chuckle to yourself but it is true.
I agree that coaches need rules. Rules are needed to set expectations. Some coaches have stricter rules than others. I would never question a coaches rules unless it concerned the well being or safety of my child, no matter how ridiculous the rule might be.
What bothers me is how some of you tell us to stop coddling our sons. We have never coddled my son, but we have kept a close eye on him over the years and we feel that is why he is healthy and never sustained any major injury, no shoulder problems, no back problems, no elbow problems. That as far as I am concerned makes me a responsible parent. It is comments like that, that make parents and players back down from speaking with the coaches about anything. I realize there are rules to prevent the parents that coddle from driving the coach crazy. Many parents like to dictate the team rules, I have even seen parents try to buy into their kids playing time.
You better believe that if there is an issue we will take it up with the HS coach or his boss. Here, he is an employee of the school board, one of the reasons we never considered private school for my son. For example, I know that foul language is used frequently on the field between the team in practice. If the coach called my son a f****** p****, well would I tolerate it if a teacher spoke to my son that way? No way! Our kids are not allowed to throw hissy fits on the field, in the dugout, I would expect the coach to do the same. I see on other teams the coach yelling and screaming at a player for a bad play, missed sign, then if the player shows frustration they get in trouble. If a coach invited our son to play on his winter or summer team and I had to pay, you'd better believe we have checked out that coach as a mentor, leader before we would allow him to play, no matter how much exposure, instruction he would get. My son has played for some really strict coaches, some really lax ones as well. He has learned to accept all types of coaching styles and that has been a plus in his favor. Most of all, he has to show respect for them, no disrespect has ever been tolerated. And parents be careful what you say in front of your son. If you speak poorly of the coach, your son will not hesitate to do the same.
Parents, if you do have a serious concern speak up, have your son speak up. I am not talking because your son has to sit on the bench, has to sub and not start,or you put in many hours to help the team, he is better than anyone else, deserves more playing time, etc. etc. There are many of you concerned with your pitcher's pitch counts, you have a right to seek out the coach and discuss it with him. If your son has been degrated in front of his teammates, do not tolerate this behavior from the coach. That is your right as a parent. It is so sad to hear that you or your kids won't go to the coach because you/he are "afraid" of the consequences. If it is a really good coach and he really is coaching because he cares for the kids, he will listen, may not give the answers they or you want to hear, but at least he has listened. And believe it or not, if your son is really good, he doesn't have to play one game in HS to get noticed, just make sure that you have explored different options.
There is absolutely no reason to be afraid, maybe if more of us speak up, we wouldn't be having these issues.
This is only my opinion of course. I don't always agree with "my way or the higway".
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Coach MercCoach Merc1,000+ posts
Reading this thread and had to write. There are some solid points here and some that are totally off base. Beacause your child has not suffered a sore, arm, back or leg does not make you more or less of a caring parent then any other parent. Your child may have had a non-baseball related sickness or injury. Did that make you a poor parent or a less caring parent? I do not think so. If a player comes to a coach with a sore arm or back it also does not mean that he's a bad coach or doesn't care about the child.

We have a policy that we will discuss any concern a parent has except playing time. If you have a problem with your childs playing time then it's time to move on.

Hopefully you get all the conversations with coaches out of your system before you look for your child to play college baseball The concerns you state are valid for approaching a coach won't work there.

Keep in mind, the baseball field is the place where the coach does his job. If you wish to have a conversation with him. Meet him in his office, away from the field and when NO players and or parents are around. Things are usually much friendly at that point. Don't chase them after a practice or game. Give the coach and yourself some time away from the field before you talk and you should be just fine.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
Coach Merc,
If you had read the other topics (pitch count, no parents at practice) I was refering to those discussions. You might want to read up on them. I know of a half dozen ex pitchers in our area that played for coaches that allowed curve balls, breaking balls and too many innings when the kids were younger. Some of their own fathers were the coaches. One of the kids I know never told his dad his arm hurt because he was afraid he wouldn't play, his own father! Parents now tell me they were afraid to speak up to the coaches for fear their boys would suffer consequences. Who is the responsible one for this to happen, not the coaches, they got away with what they wanted, the win at no cost. The parents should have been a little more responsible, it is their job to protect their son's health.
The whole point of my post was because of what I stated above. Parents and players are just too afraid to speak up to the coach. I would expect that they do it in private of course.
FYI, my son has been accepted to a fine school, one chosen because my son felt they would not use him up if he should decide to go pro later on. This was a discussion held before his decision was made. We are all on the same page, and by the way, that is my business, your reponse is the typical response from a coach that I was expecting...chuckle
Coach MercCoach Merc1,000+ posts
Balls, I guess saying that you had a few solid points was saying you were right on target. however I must have hit an eye tooth somewhere in my statement. Parents should never be afraid to have a conversation with a coach, and as I stated away from the field and parents/players. Most don't realize that they end up embarassing their children. This is called talking to or with and not up to or down to a coach. Many of these parents have little or no experience in the game itself, so all they need is a little explaination.

"your reponse is the typical response from a coach that I was expecting...chuckle" As a former player, a parent, a president of a little league program and a very successful coach at the upper levels, I find your comment self serving.
You go on to mention win at all cost..Have you read a paper lately.. Steroids, ephedra, Andro, all being tossed around by the so called roll models our kids are to look up to and what's the message? "To me, HS ball is not worth risking injury. Every extra pitch thrown is more wear and tear on the arm that shows up later". It's funny, but once again, I don't belive there have been to many players "who chose to go pro" that did not play HS ball.

I think your message is correct, don't be afraid to speak with any coach. I stated that before, my point was, do it the right way.

BTW congratulations to your son on his choice of schools. We have two players from the area on the present team roster, one who we have worked with for a long time. My son will be there for the July camp but he's a few years away 06".

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Bighit15Bighit155,000+ posts
Coach,

quote:
We have a policy that we will discuss any concern a parent has except playing time. If you have a problem with your childs playing time then it's time to move on.


That is a blanket statement. Fine, your rules! How would a parent approach you if their son was being pitched 140 pitches and 10 innings a week? I mean, that is about playing time isn't it?

quote:
As a former player, a parent, a president of a little league program and a very successful coach at the upper levels, I find your comment self serving.


I am all of those things. I don't find it self serving. Frankly, I have also been a little tired of coaches accusing caring parents of coddling, not knowing the game, embarrassing the children by speaking out, etc. I find all of those negative stereotypes to be rather self serving. Instead of dealing with legitimate issues, the coaches seem to start inferring all of the stereotypes and attributing those things to the poster. Frankly, I know that most of the coaches that come on here are probably above average. I would hope that some of you would give some of us parents the same credit, but you don't.

Coaches have problems as well. How about the coach whose wife sits in the stands and runs back and tells her husband every time a parent says "I would have bunted", or "why did he call that pitch". I would also ask if the wife runs back and says hey someone says "smart move on the bunt", or "coach called a good game today". My point is that a lot of coaches are way too sensitive to what parents are saying. There is a difference between armchair coaching and criticizing and causing problems by rallying troops to a mutiny. Some of you guys don't know the difference. Some of you guys have rabbit ears. I personally don't care what anybody says as long as they don't say it to me or try to be a cancer. Armchair quarterbacking is part of the game.

the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"
W Will1,000+ posts
This thing with parents and coaches judt goes on and on. The problem is that the line dividing the two has changed greatly over the years. Parents are more vocal and see their part in their sons baseball career as an active one. Coaches want to coach. Parents want to do what is best for their kids. It is a matter of opinion. The opinion comes from people who see the result from many times completely different perspectives. The coach has maybe 18=22 players every day to work into a team. The parent has his kid. Sees things through his kid. It is just the way it is.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
Coach Merc,
No need to keep going over the same thing, I think Bighit did a fine job of explaining what I was saying. Not sure where the steroid,supplement thing comes into. I know it exists, I was talking about a coach putting his desire to win over the health of a young man. If that should include the use of such things, all the more reason to confront a coach if our sons won't speak up for themselves. The world we live in forces our children to make errors in judgement to find a way to be better, get better and that includes not being honest with coachs or parents if he/she is hurt or in such cases as we have seen, turns to things that will make them perform better. The pressure to be the best consumes parents as well, some will become so obsessed with their child being #1, they too will overlook overuse, etc. When a coach says do not discuss your son's playing time, well if I think too much will not benefit my son or the team,I will speak up. And if a parent thinks there son is being shortchanged, they have a right to ask why. Your blanket statement as Bighit points out shows how Coach's rules can somewhat be confusing. My son by the way does not agree with me, he thinks that a parent should always keep their thoughts to themselves. I guess I went overboard on the never question the coach thing, but that is ok, he will be a parent someday himself and then he will understand. Since you are aware of where my son will go to school, I think that you might understand why my son chose to be mentored by those coaches. Their philosophy of coaching matches ours and we have been told never ever be afraid to discuss anything, never be afraid to call. There aren't too many out there that would make that statement.
I can't help being passionate on this subject, I have always been an advocate for protecting our children.
By the way, call me Base, fits the gender better than the name Balls.

Bighit,
Heard about the game, will see you Friday. Maybe no pacing for me as we have set some pitch count ground rules with the coach.
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TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
Jemaz,
On the contrary, we have probably had better experiences than most, if you took the time to read my first post. I just don't understand why parents will put up with coaches that scare the s*** out of them so they won't speak up!
I am not speaking about the parents that visit this site. We are exceptions to the rule. When a parent tells me that because his son's pitch count was so high the first game and when he approached the coach he got his head chewed off, this is ridiculous. He informed the coach that if he pulls it again he will burn the team uniforms....I say go for it!
jemazjemaz1,000+ posts
baseonballs:

Obviously, no player ought to be overused. I must say, though, to pull off what you advise, the player better be mighty good. Considering that most kids aren't good enough in the end to make the high school team, you are talking about very, very few players.

Here is the other point to consider: Fewer players still are good enough to play much beyond high school. If that is the case, then what is the point in saving a kid's arm? Most injuries are cumulative, and if a player is not going to play long enough to reach "cumulative" then why not go for it?
Dad04Dad045,000+ posts
I agree with you Jemaz. The team comes first, until the player is abused. If the players career was to end in two months and he was ok with going all out, full blast, 12-14 complete games, I'd say kid, knock yourself out.

If that's not the case and the kid is going on, then he dserves some respect and consideration for that.
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
bbon50,
You understand why most parents won't speak up. If their kid is an average HS starter who could be replaced by another player with only a little damage to the team's chances of winning they're afraid that their kid will be benched if they say anything. I don't think most coaches would do that, but there are enough coaches out there who would to make it a legitimate concern.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
Jemaz,
Point well taken. In our particular case, our son may have a future in baseball. So therefore we try to follow advice that overuse is cumulative and since he has pitched pretty much year round all of his life we have always tried to be watchdogs. In this particular case, our HS team has weak pitching, pitcher who is best reliever is hurt coming into season, power hitters not hitting. So what does the caoch do? Same as others, uses the best pitcher to the max to get the team through the win. I realize that in many cases in HS you have limits on your players, but is that fair for that pitcher?
My whole point of this is that coaches have rules, that's ok, but a parent has the right to question the coach if they feel health, safety is an issue, no matter what potential the player has down the road. By the way, that reliever who has a hurt arm, his arm has hurt him since end of last season, through the summer, into fall. Never said much because he was afraid if he complained coach might not let him play. Is that crazy or what? He has tendinitous, but still playing center and batting. He will never see the mound this year. What a shame.
We have a situation going on right now where one of our returning varsity players is just not performing, too many errors so he has been sitting. Parents say he is making errors because he lost his confidence, but refuses to speak with coach, is afraid to ask what he can do to improve. Why does it get to the point that a player is AFRAID to speak to the coach. If he was doing poorly in school, would he not ask what he needs to bring his grade up?
I am sorry for repeating myself.
Moc1Moc1500+ posts
Just another observation. Most coaches were players at one time and most "good" players have a strong desire to succeed and are very determined. Have to have a strong will(ego) in order to be the best. This strong will does not end once they become coaches. That being said, IMO, the best coaches are the ones who are able to transition from the "me" attitude to the "best interest of the team" attitude. Basically,getting a "high" from seeing individual players improve and do well as opposed getting a high from winning a conference /district /state championship to put on the resume. I think it's called "growing up".

Our sophomore pitcher started the second game of the season and threw over 120 pitches. Arm extremely sore the next day. What is the advice from the coaches?

Talk to the coach and hope he is mature enough to see his mistake?
Set strict guidelines and hope coach doesn't hold grudge? Or be quiet and say nothing. This coach doesn't take too well from suggestions from players or parents.

Thanks

Moc1
Dad04Dad045,000+ posts
The plain fact is that college coaches are very leery of Florida High School pitchers because they DO pitch year round,and most of the good ones have already been rode hard, put up wet.

High school coaches early in the season are very tempted to ride their big dog pitchers because their teams hitting doesn't get hot until about 10 games into the season.
N 2ndbasemom100+ posts
I don't think we have ever had to speak to a coach re: playing time or anything else....We are all talking about high school aged young men. If my son has a problem with his coach, he addresses it after a game or in the coaches office....NOT DURING A GAME, and respectfully. I think this might be one of the reasons coaches think parents are coddling their sons. JMO
Coach MercCoach Merc1,000+ posts
2basemom,
Very well said. There is always room for conversation, as I said. Just have the conversation at the right time. Bighit, you missed the point totally. If a coach,and I'll use the term loosely, has a kid throw 140 pitches at the high school age or below, then he is a child abuser. I am the one who coaches, is the president of my LL program etc. The self serving point was to defend my self from bases comment, "your reponse is the typical response from a coach that I was expecting...chuckle". Which was a gross generalization thrown out because someone disagreed.

I enjoy this message board for the feedback. Because someone disagrees with my view does not make them wrong. There are good coaches on this board and good parents, however beware, there are bad coaches and bad parents in this world as is evident by some of the horror stories here and on the news.

Lets play ball.
gratefulgrateful1,000+ posts
baseball.......

I understand all of your points, though I don't necessarily agree with all of them. I was a long-time coach and am the parent of a freshman pitcher at a D-I university.

The major concern I have with young pitchers now is not as much what they are doing during the season (i.e. pitch counts, days of rest, etc.,), and it seems as though you are making sure your son's arm is not overused. My concern has to do with you contradicting yourself when you say that overuse of pitchers is a cumulative thing, but then you go on to say that your son is throwing all year round.

The rash of Tommy John surgeries for young pitchers in the past few years may not be because of the amount of pitching they do during their seasons, where they are being monitored by their coaches, but during the off-season. Pitching instructors want to make their money, and make most of it during the off-season, and parents want their young pitchers to have an advantage and therefore pay for their winter pitching instruction.

When do these kids get to rest their arms?? Major league pitchers take time off and they are mature adults. I was a college coach for a long time. My pitchers didn't throw from late October until early January. My son didn't throw during the winter and he is a pro prospect.

I know you meant well in trying to say that parents need to speak to coaches when they have concerns; I have no problem with that. But who is going to speak to the pitching instructors and parents when these same kids are abusing their arms all winter long. By the time the season comes around their arms are no longer growing in strength and endurance, they are longing for a break.

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