Doing a little research on PG's site for potential target schools for my 2022 RHP.  I specifically looked at the 2020-2022 RHP commits  for some of the P5 schools that were both in the colder climates and toward the bottom of their respective conference rankings for the 2019 season.  I guess I was more or less looking for the floor in terms of P5 opportunities for a RHP.

 

After looking at several schools including Boston College, Notre Dame, Purdue, Pen State, Kansas, Kansas State and a couple of others I was a little surprised at the lack of 90 mph arms.  Most of these schools had only 1 kid across the 3 recruiting classes that had ever touched 90 mph.  Most of the RHP's committed to these schools were topping out at 88 or below.

 

Understanding that recruiting is largely regional, is there a way to get on these school's radar if you live in the south?  It's seems like there are opportunities to go to some good schools and play against top P5 competition for kids who can't crack the roster at the top 20 P5 schools.  

Original Post

You can contact them but you have to be able to be better than what they have.  The question also is do you want to go somewhere that is gonna get beat every game just to say you played at a P5 school?  Some of these schools only win a few games a year.  That is why they do not have 90 plus pitchers on their teams.  Most 90 plus kids would rather go to a competitive mid major than a bottom feeder P5 that gets beat every game.  That is not the case in all of them that you named but many.  They try to recruit those kids but their facilities lack or their level of play lacks to draw those kids.  The top level kids have been competitive in travel ball and school ball and want to continue somewhere that is competitive.  Just remember that scouts don't care where pitchers come from if the numbers are right for the draft. 

PitchingFan posted:

You can contact them but you have to be able to be better than what they have.  The question also is do you want to go somewhere that is gonna get beat every game just to say you played at a P5 school?  Some of these schools only win a few games a year.  That is why they do not have 90 plus pitchers on their teams.  Most 90 plus kids would rather go to a competitive mid major than a bottom feeder P5 that gets beat every game.  That is not the case in all of them that you named but many.  They try to recruit those kids but their facilities lack or their level of play lacks to draw those kids.  The top level kids have been competitive in travel ball and school ball and want to continue somewhere that is competitive.  Just remember that scouts don't care where pitchers come from if the numbers are right for the draft. 

Some valid points for sure.  I guess it would be dependent on the kids goals. 90 may never see the field at a top P5 or ever start at a top mid major, much less get much of the 11.7.  Would he rather be a Friday starter for a weak P5 school or a middle reliever at a top mid major?  It probably depends heavily on how the kid is wired and what he wants from college baseball.

It just seems like a potential sweet spot for both money and playing time for a kid who would be marginal at a top mid major and can't crack the roster at a top P5.  Particularly if the academics and culture are in line with the kids plans.

 

22and25,

I like your strategy, and fully appreciate what you are trying to do.  I'd start with your travel coach, high school coach or possibly a local scout that can advocate and introduce your son.  The best introduction to your son's skill set can come from networking or somebody in the business.   They can carry a lot more weight than your son sending an initial  video or email.   Use the video or email as a follow up to the introduction if you get it. 

Also, keep in mind there are a lot of D1 mid-majors (everywhere) that schedule P5 schools and beat them early in the season.  I've seen my (northeast) Alma Mater come south and beat up on a couple ACC schools during Spring Break.   P5s get a lot of exposure during the season, but there are quite a few mid-major players that get a lot of exposure in the college summer baseball leagues.   Also, there are quite a few D1 mid-major coaches that have the juice to get their players in the best summer leagues.  

Good luck!

So, the short answer to your questions ... yes, there are ways to get on the radar of those schools.  Any combination of -

-If your son has credible reference like an established pitching coach, travel coach or other that can advocate and would be willing to reach out to targeted school/s, that can be a start. 

-Sending a good video demonstrating the desired skill set and measurables along with compelling reason he is interested in that specific school.  

-Identifying the key events where the school/s will be actively recruiting and attending those.

-Identifying and joining strong travel programs that will be attending events in front of those targeted schools (of course, player has to have the desired skill set that he would get playing time with said organization).

-attending a prospect camp at targeted school only after initial interest has been established and there has been agreement that player would get a good look.

Also, yes, generally, a player with a D1 skillset but not one that stands out exceptionally will likely have more opportunities at those schools that are both in the northern climates and are traditionally bottom half finishers in their respective conferences, because those schools of course have more difficulty attracting top shelf recruits.  

But I would also add to check the logic.  I don't know how much of this applies to your player but... you describe a player who can't crack the roster at top P5 schools. So, such a player isn't likely to get a ton of money from those next tier schools either.  Do you really want the player to travel far from home to a much more harsh climate, pay an extra $15-30K per year for out-of-state or private tuition, play on a losing team, have a more challenging and expensive recruiting path with less assurances likely, etc., so he can say he played P5 D1 instead of other D1 or D2 (or ??) where he can perhaps play with a title-contending program offering more athletic $, be more likely to contribute significantly, have lesser costs otherwise and be closer to home where he and his family can enjoy the benefits of being reasonably nearby?

PS -  took a while to finish my post... I see that many of the same things were already covered.

First, unless your son is an exceptional student, you can probably eliminate ND and BC from the conversation. Very difficult admissions, even for athletes. Also, Cost of Attendance at both schools is north of $70K per year, which puts them out of reach for kids who can't make it work with just need based aid.
PSU is a good example, they have 10 kids listed on the 2019 roster from southern states plus CA (one from TX).
It can be done, but I think current rosters are your best indication of how likely you are to make this work. I think many coaches are apprehensive about kids from far away. Maybe it's the OOS scholarship (depending on how the school works scholarship dollars), maybe a history of those types of kids leaving school early, maybe pressure from boosters to recruit locally, etc.
Then there's the social aspect. Would your son fit right in at Rutgers (for example) where most of the kids are from NJ and NY? Many would not, but that depends on the person.
After making contact and getting a feel for feasibility, attending camps is probably your best bet. Especially for pitchers. And of course all P5s attend WWBA events, so that would be a good place to schedule an evaluation with the coaching staff.

Unless a player from far away shows potential to exceed who they would otherwise recruit the program is more likely to pursue a player from the region. At a state university it isn’t just about 11.7 scholarships. It’s also about the budget (dollars). Recruits from outside the region cost more. 

Privates don’t have the same budget considerations. But distance, potential home sickness and cultural change are recruiting considerations for player and coach. 

I remember posing to my son, “Are you sure a major city/suburban kid wants to go to college in a cornfield?” He loved going to college in the Midwest. But he didn’t stay when it was over. I remember his comment after being in the Midwest a month: This people are so nice and polite it’s freak’n goofy. When he graduated and moved back to the home region he had to get his FU back on. 

This works in reverse as well. One of my college teammates left school after four weeks. There were more people on campus than his entire town. 

Is it me or is there a tendency for some of us to find as many holes as possible in each parent's question about playing D1 and/or P5 baseball? No doubt that some parents come to this board with unrealistic expectations but I think he asked a great question and has obviously done some research. As cabbagedad referenced, there are numerous ways to get on the radar of those schools.

One thing that is a constant on this board is that going somewhere you are loved and/or will play should be tops on the list of selecting the right school/program. Another constant is choosing a school that student would attend even if baseball did not work out. If that's ND, BC, Purdue, etc., then I say good for him. There are much worse options out there.

If you are really committed to playing in a certain region my advice would be to guest play with a travel team that is based there.  Those programs will have the local connections and by definition be playing in front of the schools that you are interested in.  For example - a pitcher who is hitting 90 would get lots of attention at the NEBC tournaments in New England.  Just a couple of strong outings in front of the local coaches would probably go a long way.

coachld posted:

Is it me or is there a tendency for some of us to find as many holes as possible in each parent's question about playing D1 and/or P5 baseball? No doubt that some parents come to this board with unrealistic expectations but I think he asked a great question and has obviously done some research. As cabbagedad referenced, there are numerous ways to get on the radar of those schools.

One thing that is a constant on this board is that going somewhere you are loved and/or will play should be tops on the list of selecting the right school/program. Another constant is choosing a school that student would attend even if baseball did not work out. If that's ND, BC, Purdue, etc., then I say good for him. There are much worse options out there.

I believe it’s a legitimate concern some players/families will stretch the limits of college criteria to play D1. If baseball doesn’t work out at the chosen school and the kid is a thousand or more miles from home in a completely different world than he’s accustomed, while away from family. The odds of unhappiness increase exponentially. 

coachld posted:

Is it me or is there a tendency for some of us to find as many holes as possible in each parent's question about playing D1 and/or P5 baseball? No doubt that some parents come to this board with unrealistic expectations but I think he asked a great question and has obviously done some research. As cabbagedad referenced, there are numerous ways to get on the radar of those schools.

One thing that is a constant on this board is that going somewhere you are loved and/or will play should be tops on the list of selecting the right school/program. Another constant is choosing a school that student would attend even if baseball did not work out. If that's ND, BC, Purdue, etc., then I say good for him. There are much worse options out there.

As the OP, I am happy to get everyone's thoughts on the topic.  A primary reason I started the thread was to discuss the fact that the velo seems to be sharply lower in the bottom 3rd of these P5 schools and even more so when the school is also up north.  I was genuinely surprised by that.

Just seems like some kids on the bubble at a southern P5 would want to slide up where they could have a chance to be the dude and throw a bunch of innings.  I hear "go where you can play" a lot and it seems like, all else being equal,  more kids would rather play at Purdue than sit, red shirt, or even get cut at Ole Miss or Clemson.

 

Cast a wide net, right?

 

 

A few things. The first being that those 86-89 guys being recruited to cold weather P5s, break 90 after a semester on campus. So when it is all said and done you can go to any cold weather ACC/Big 10/12 and see almost all 90+ guys. Sure less 95 guys than the SEC but it is still majority 90+. They are still recruiting based on projection. I'm looking at a cold weather school in a P5 and all the 2021/2022 recruits are 87+. 

As for P5 opportunities - yes there are plenty if you're from the SE. The best players from the NE head south to the top programs so they don't have play in the cold in April. That is a big reason coaches from cold weather states don't bother much with the southern guys. It is too hard to convince a kid to leave his warm weather and year round baseball to come north and literally not be able to get on a field from Thanksgiving to March. Which is also a reason why Juco baseball is so good in warmer weather baseball hotbeds - not enough D1s, but more than enough talent. So a juco kid in Tx, Ga, LA, etc could very well play P5 somewhere colder. Plus the cold weather coaches recruit cold weather players because they are used to throwing 2 days after it snowed. 

From what I'm picking up cold weather P5 programs are starting to put money into indoor facilities. Makes sense considering thats where the team spends 4-5 months a year. I watched a Feb game on opening weekend 2 years ago. Cold D1 vs ranked P5. Cold school was getting beat pretty good when announcer says how impressed he is with how they look - It was the first time they had been outside since last fall game in October. 

Advantages: Education, there are some really good schools up north, especially the publics. Generally the northern schools are better. BC, ND, almost all of the Big 10 are great places to get a degree from. Also, 4 year guaranteed $. Baseball is not as strong as SEC but still pretty good all things considered. 

Disadvantages: Snow in March.  Not getting on a field all winter. 

I think your logic is valid and you may find success with that strategy if everything falls into place and your son fits a need at that school. Depending on how far out you are though, remember those bottom dwelling P5 schools are there because they don’t recruit well and don’t win. You know what happens to a coach who doesn’t recruit well and loses more than he wins? He packs his bags and looks for a new gig. You know what the new coach coming in does? He brings ina bunch of JUCO transfers to try to make the team competitive right away. Beware of these scenarios, it happens a lot.

While attending BC games I’ve had conversation with people they don’t like but don’t disagree. 

If Boston College could keep the top New England talent in the region they would be a very competitive ACC program. The year Vanderbilt won the CWS their #1, #2, closer and cleanup hitter were all from Massachusetts. A few years previous when Vanderbilt should have won it all they had five position starters from New England.  Tim Corbin is from New Hampshire. Through his contacts none of the premier talent escapes his recruiting eye. 

For the most part the top talent in New England heads south in the ACC. At BC games I often meet dads whose kids came to see the ACC recruiting team them, not BC. 

The net is the top tier New England talent mostly heads south. The top tier southern talent doesn’t want to come north. BC gets the second tier New Englanders and southerners not recruited by other ACC programs who want to play in the ACC.

About ten years ago BC scored big with late bloomers. Tony Pena, a catcher from Miami developed into the 4th pick in the draft. Another pitcher developed into a first round pick. Other pitchers blossomed. BC came within a game of the ACC championship. 

More recently three late bloomer pitchers nearly pitched BC into the CWS. They went on a late season tear to separate from being a .500 team. They swept the Oxford region and took Miami to three games in the Super series. Their starting pitchers were drafted in the first, sixth and eight rounds. Two of the three were called up (MLB) late last season. 

But most seasons BC doesn’t compete well in the ACC and beats the crap out of inferior New England non conference competition to get near or to .500 for the season. The only competition at their level in New England is UConn (AAC).

BC recently opened a big time indoor facility. It will likely help football recruiting. It may help baseball. But it doesn’t improve the weather. BC doesn’t play home games until April. It’s often cold. Opening the season with five or six weeks on the road is a difficult way to start the season. 

RJM posted:

 

But most seasons BC doesn’t compete well in the ACC and beats the crap out of inferior New England non conference competition to get near or to .500 for the season. The only competition at their level in New England is UConn (AAC).

 

RJM - Since you watch a lot of baseball and are a New England guy I would love your perspective on who the best D1 baseball programs are in New England (CT, RI, MA, ME etc).   I think UCONN is the best and BC while a great program might not be on par but I am not as familiar with all teams/history etc.   Give us top 5 or top 10.   Thanks man.

There aren’t ten. BC and UConn are the only ones playing a high level of competition. Northeastern is good for their decent level (CAA) of play. Bryant sometimes beats BC. I doubt Bryant could handle BC’s weekend pitching. What New England has is several quality D3 programs. 

RJM posted:

There aren’t ten. BC and UConn are the only ones playing a high level of competition. Northeastern is good for their decent level (CAA) of play. Bryant sometimes beats BC. I doubt Bryant could handle BC’s weekend pitching. What New England has is several quality D3 programs. 

And four members of the Ivy League.  I believe UConn is changing conferences so their quality of conference competition is going down which will likely lower their RPI.  Doesn’t mean their team won’t still be decent but it won’t help their standing.  The others in New England include Maine, UMass, URI, Hartford, Quinnapiac, and I think Merrimack is moving up from D2 to D1.    

9and7dad posted:
RJM posted:

There aren’t ten. BC and UConn are the only ones playing a high level of competition. Northeastern is good for their decent level (CAA) of play. Bryant sometimes beats BC. I doubt Bryant could handle BC’s weekend pitching. What New England has is several quality D3 programs. 

And four members of the Ivy League.  I believe UConn is changing conferences so their quality of conference competition is going down which will likely lower their RPI.  Doesn’t mean their team won’t still be decent but it won’t help their standing.  The others in New England include Maine, UMass, URI, Hartford, Quinnapiac, and I think Merrimack is moving up from D2 to D1.    

The poster asked for the best D1 baseball programs. After the four I mentioned there’s severe drop off. The rest don’t win on a regular basis or are in low RPI conferences. There are plenty of good baseball players in New England. But they leave the region for college baseball.

But, college selection should be based on more than top teams in better conferences that win. Each person has to find their own best fit that also takes in education. 

In my view, outside being a top pro prospect first select the elite (i.e. Ivies) academic situation. Once past elite academic colleges find the best academic situation with a baseball program that wins more than it loses where you can get on the field. The same applies relating to D3 with NESCAC’s (or similar) and the rest of the colleges.

Having grown up in both Baltimore & Wisconsin, I agree with the other posters who are talking about cultural differences in various regions. Some kids from the Midwest would get chewed up & spit out at an East Coast school, other kids from the Midwest attending an East Coast school would be thrilled to finally be somewhere where people aren't "fake nice" (yes, I went there)

3and2Fastball posted:

Having grown up in both Baltimore & Wisconsin, I agree with the other posters who are talking about cultural differences in various regions. Some kids from the Midwest would get chewed up & spit out at an East Coast school, other kids from the Midwest attending an East Coast school would be thrilled to finally be somewhere where people aren't "fake nice" (yes, I went there)

Fake nice as opposed to unapologetic douche bag? (Yes, I went there)

 

I will take fake nice all day☺

22and25 posted:
3and2Fastball posted:

Having grown up in both Baltimore & Wisconsin, I agree with the other posters who are talking about cultural differences in various regions. Some kids from the Midwest would get chewed up & spit out at an East Coast school, other kids from the Midwest attending an East Coast school would be thrilled to finally be somewhere where people aren't "fake nice" (yes, I went there)

Fake nice as opposed to unapologetic douche bag? (Yes, I went there)

 

I will take fake nice all day☺

Well, sure... That speaks to my point.  It is important to find the right fit culturally.

3and2Fastball posted:
22and25 posted:
3and2Fastball posted:

Having grown up in both Baltimore & Wisconsin, I agree with the other posters who are talking about cultural differences in various regions. Some kids from the Midwest would get chewed up & spit out at an East Coast school, other kids from the Midwest attending an East Coast school would be thrilled to finally be somewhere where people aren't "fake nice" (yes, I went there)

Fake nice as opposed to unapologetic douche bag? (Yes, I went there)

 

I will take fake nice all day☺

Well, sure... That speaks to my point.  It is important to find the right fit culturally.

Yes, agree.  The right fit culturally is probably more important than the other factors when it comes to sticking at a school.

Since this thread briefly talked about “culture”...any advice on how to tell/tools for deciding if your kid can hack it in a completely different environment?  Husband and I are both lifelong Westcoasters.  Lefty is a high academic kid.  It looks like most of the schools on the list we are building are in a significant distance away.  Most would also involve a weather change and a culture change.  Granted he will change quite a bit in the next 2.5 years, but that’s a lot.  If he were going for just academics I would worry less.  Seriously, how do your pitchers keep their fingers loose enough for movement on pitches when it’s snowing?!

collegebaseballrecruitingguide posted:

Not sure I would characterize BC as a powerhouse program, especially in the ACC. Sourcing this from Wikipedia, not sure of accuracy, but 2 NCAA tournament births in the past 12-13 years isn’t exactly turning this team into the benchmark of success in my view.ABC7EFDD-92B9-4E9B-BEB9-CB3E873C0E22

 

 

 

 

No one is claiming BC is a powerhouse. They play in a power conference against top competition. On an ongoing basis they suffer from previously stated recruiting issues due to weather.

Occasionally they recruit some late bloomers or kids who want to stay near home and become competitive for a year or two. Regardless, BC and UConn are the only programs in New England to play if a player can compete against the best competition.

LousyLefty posted:

Since this thread briefly talked about “culture”...any advice on how to tell/tools for deciding if your kid can hack it in a completely different environment?  Husband and I are both lifelong Westcoasters.  Lefty is a high academic kid.  It looks like most of the schools on the list we are building are in a significant distance away.  Most would also involve a weather change and a culture change.  Granted he will change quite a bit in the next 2.5 years, but that’s a lot.  If he were going for just academics I would worry less.  Seriously, how do your pitchers keep their fingers loose enough for movement on pitches when it’s snowing?!

 Snow isn’t the issue. You don’t play in snow storms. The issue is cold and wind. Thinking about it is part of the problem. Until we moved I never thought about being cold as a high school player. I just went out and did my job. Being loose on the mound was a huge advantage over a hitter coming out of the dugout if the hitter allowed it to be.

In high school my kids never complained or thought about the weather, hot or cold. They saw it as a competitive advantage due to the distraction it caused others. However, avoiding wind and cold was part of the college selection process. My daughter (softball) choose warm. My son chose warmer than high school. His team traveled the first three weekends.

Many New England programs don’t play home series until April.

  1. LousyLefty posted:

Since this thread briefly talked about “culture”...any advice on how to tell/tools for deciding if your kid can hack it in a completely different environment?  Husband and I are both lifelong Westcoasters.  Lefty is a high academic kid.  It looks like most of the schools on the list we are building are in a significant distance away.  Most would also involve a weather change and a culture change.  Granted he will change quite a bit in the next 2.5 years, but that’s a lot.  If he were going for just academics I would worry less.  Seriously, how do your pitchers keep their fingers loose enough for movement on pitches when it’s snowing?!

My son grew up in South Florida, which has a very unique culture that may not be for everyone.  Both of my kids embraced the diversity.  

Although he decided to attend what may be considered a school in the south, with a cooler climate, he wasn't very interested in attending LSU, Baylor or Mississippi  or a few other programs where in state student population was very close to 100%. Not sure if that is the case now, but it's something to consider.  This was pointed out to him during the process. 

In a state as large as Florida, there is a significant difference between population in the farthest schools north to the farthest school south. There definetly is a culture difference that may or may not be for everyone.  Take the 2 ACC programs in FL. Totally different makeup in the school as well as the baseball team. 

When choosing a program in a cold weather location, keep in mind that many many programs travel every weekend to warmer weather states. You can see that when schedules are posted. It's not for everyone.

I will add one thing that I learned. Being close to where your son will play, is very important. Not so much for you, but for him. Nothing better than looking up and seeing your family in the stands. 

Been there done that, just my opinion.

 

Hmmm...  yup, geographic culture can be a huge factor and one that doesn't get discussed a whole lot here in terms of the college search.  As was briefly touched on in an entertaining fashion earlier in this thread, it can be a bit of a sensitive subject to discuss candidly.

Lousy Lefty, I think there are too many variances to answer the question generally.  If you have questions about a specific region and can give more background about the environment your son has grown up in, there are plenty here who can give you specifics and would be more than willing to be candid via PM.  Many of us have either lived in various regions and/or had kids experience going to places with very different cultures to play.

Related side note... we run Airbnb out of our house and, due to our location, get tourists from every corner of the country (and world, for that matter).  We have fun reading the profiles based on where they live and guess what the personalities are going to be like.  Due to regional culture, things tend to be pretty consistent and predictable.

Back to baseball, there are also more and more schools that tap into a recruiting pipeline that includes kids from PR, Dominican Republic, etc. to a varying extent.  This probably ties somewhat into what TPM describes.  This is a whole other culture that often isn't at all representative of the geographic location of the college, but a factor none the less.  One son attended a school with a fair number of these players and at first, there was some friction due to the tendency of that culture to be brash and outspoken (among other things ).  Eventually, he intentionally ended up with two as roomies and good friends.

 

TPM posted:

I will add one thing that I learned. Being close to where your son will play, is very important. Not so much for you, but for him. Nothing better than looking up and seeing your family in the stands. 

Been there done that, just my opinion.

 

Couldn't agree with you more. My son said this in print and at graduation. I think that's what made his recruiting class so special- 5 of the 8 were in reasonable driving distance to the home games , and a 6th from TX made every weekend series home and away. I think he liked someone there when he excelled and a shoulder and "sounding board" for when he didn't. Besides who wouldn't get a kick out of a player's dad sprinting out of his seat beating the usher to his lone career HR ball at home. (Glad I later saw his HR trot on video).

I've been following Patrick Reilly because my son plays in the same organization but not on NJ team.  Saw this news on twitter this am too.  To put some color around what Midatlanticdad says;   

Oct 2018 top FB 88, range 84-88

July 2019 top FB 90, range 85-90

October 2019 top FB 96, range 91-96

Amazing that you can go from top FB 90 to FB range 91-96 in 3-4 months.  That's crazy.  All these stats just pulled from PG site.    Northeastern lost a great player to Vandy.

Garrett Crochet who is junior at University of Tennessee was 87 coming into UT.  He hit 100 three times in last scrimmage.  3 years 13 mph.  You can't look at what they do out of HS and know what they will do with proper lifting and mechanics.  Some scouts have him at 101/102.  Many expect him to be first pick in draft this year.  Has great body make up at 6'6" LHP. 

Add Reply

Likes (0)
×
×
×
×