College Baseball Coaching Path Insight

TPM’s son went from AAA at 28yo, to ACC volunteer assistant while finishing his degree, to Sunshine Conference D2 pitching coach and top recruiter for two years, to pitching coach at a CUSA D1. He’s been there three years.

I’m guessing playing and volunteer coaching at Clemson had its connections. Plus he was a well known prospect in Florida coming out of high school. 

Chris Lemonis was an assistant at Citadel for eleven years and eight at Louisville before getting his first head coaching job at Indiana. 

RJM posted:

Chris Lemonis was an assistant at Citadel for eleven years and eight at Louisville before getting his first head coaching job at Indiana. 

Any idea how many of those years as asst. were the paid position?  Paid asst. at a school like Louisville is probably a pretty decent paying gig.

cabbagedad, you need to contact Prepster...

baseballmom posted:

cabbagedad, you need to contact Prepster...

Hi BBMom!  That's a good call.  I know his son just got that great new gig.  Of course, he had remarkable accomplishments and qualifications coming in.  Would be curious to hear how much of his asst. coach tenure was paid a livable salary.

Mine was actually able to move quickly from student assistant to paid assistant at his smaller school but then had to take a step back to move forward - back to volunteer status with the move to a D1 program.  And now, he can't go back to his good summer gig that paid OK either because he is on staff at D1 level.

Coach 1. LHP NAIA. Lessons for 5 years and worked a non-baseball job. College teammate - now a HC -asked him to be PC; 4 years little pay. Then PC to a school transitioning to D1 2 years. Now HC D2 school 1 year.

Coach 2. MILB 5 years LHP. Lessons/Apprenticing  learning to teach pitching 3 years while finishing college. 3 years PC (no pay) BIG 10. 2 years PC PAC 12 (paid). 2 years DirOp PAC 12 (pittance). One year PC/RC Mid-Major.

Coach 3. NAIA player. Grad Asst and batting lessons 2 years while completing masters. Batting coach NAIA, 2 yr. HC NAIA 3 yrs. Batting coach, then RC D1. 5 yrs.  HC Mid -major 3 yrs. HC contender current.

[I may be missing years here and there as I'm going from memory and can't even remember where I left my hearing aids yesterday.]

My observations on career mobility (in order of importance): network, competence, longevity, ability to outlast your competition.

It's a hard career.

Best advice I got in regards to College Coaching

As for college coaching, it is so tough to get into. My advice is don't expect to make alot of money doing it. I tell young guys to try and volunteer at the highest level possible and get a part time job. Work for a recommendation and for the next position. As you know, it is all about who you know and who is in your coaching tree. It is like the mafia, you have to be connected to the right guys in order to move up. Try and get connected to guys that have status. 

At major D-1's the "volunteers" can make more than nominal pay working the camps, clinics, etc.    While they are called "volunteers" some make substantially more than some D-3 head coaches make as their base salary.

As for TPM's son, he was our pitching coach in the Valley League one summer and he was ultra-dedicated to doing an outstanding job-well beyond anything I had seen before. In summer ball, he met with our pitchers before games to review opposing hitters, spray charts, etc. and they soaked it up.  He worked individually with our pitchers and several said he was the best pitching coach they ever had. He had "future big time coach" written all over him because he just worked incredibly hard at doing whatever he could to improve our pitchers.  Since then, he's the gold standard by which we judge pitching coaches.  Playing AAA for the Cardinals did not hurt him but his work ethic and dedication put him on a fast path to success. It's all about the work.

It is basically like minor league ball as the OP said, there are many asistant coach jobs and very few head coach jobs and if you want to make a living long term you need a head coach jobs and not every assistant coach can get there just like not every minor leaguer gets to the show. Even minor league assistant coach jobs don't really pay that well.

This means you either have to make it to head coaching or start a private facility/ hitting cage were you give lessons if you want to make a living, both are not easy assigments.

So glad to see TPM's son singled out here. Go back as far as you wish. He's been outstanding everywhere he's been. He's smart, dedicated, and committed to constant learning. There's no reason why he shouldn't find his way to the highest reaches of the college coaching world if that's where he continues to choose to be.

In my opinion, the first two traits from above are very beneficial; but, the last one...real commitment to constant learning...is one of the ones that separates the best coaches from the above-average ones. All too often, a coach reaches a certain level and starts to coast on what got him there. What that overlooks is that there are some very smart people employing some increasingly sophisticated methods meant to improve our understanding of how to develop in and play the game. Those who stay connected to that process and integrate its improvements into their coaching are the ones who seem to advance farther than the rest.

Another separation trait would be the ability to recognize the differences among players on the roster and willingness to adapt coaching style to those individual traits. This, of course, isn't limited to baseball. 

As in so many professions, college coaching's pyramid is a crowded one. Done well..and so many do it well...it demands passion for the game, commitment to the players, and a heck of a lot of hard work. As has been stated here, networking is important; but, it's just one of many elements involved in distinguishing one's self when on one of the pyramid's middle levels.

But I will throw a wrench in this which is also outside the norm.  I know of a couple of volunteer assistants that make upwards of $100,000 doing clinics, camps and lessons.  And most of that is paid in cash.  There is really good money at larger schools if the volunteer works it right.  At many schools, almost all of the camp money goes to the volunteer assistant which is why so many of you get the invites to camps.  If they run them right and bring in the right people to help there is a lot of money to be made.  Many also have great connections and will do clinics with former pro players or current pro players that will come to help them with their clinics or camps for free.  It really depends on the school and what they allow their volunteer assistant to do and what kind of a cut they give them on camps/clinics/lessons.

Most asst coaches I know augment their income; and the amount of augmentation often depends upon the HC.

At one university, asst coaches gave pitching and hitting "clinics" almost daily during fall and winter. (Clinics are fine, lessons aren't for ninth grade and older.)  Cost was $50 per player per clinic; 10 players per clinic; 2 hrs long. HC had them pay for overhead and keep the rest. At another college, the HC took more for the same type of clinic. At both, compliance officers made sure the i's were dotted and t's crossed.

Summers can also be lucrative  - or not - depending on the HC. Coaches can work camps, showcases, etc., and make decent money; a coach working all summer with incoming freshman or other players on campus doesn't. Summer leagues also provide monetary opportunities. For example, each team in the Northwoods league has a coaching budget which is divided anyway the manager desires: some keep the lions share, others don't and pay their asst coaches decently.

Some long time asst coaches make very good money. Stanford, Yale, and Princeton come to mind.

When a family is involved, the traveling sometimes required to augment salary can create real hardships. A bachelor probably has an advantage. IMO, a budding family is the biggest factor for young coaches finding another line of work.

While the network gets you the interview, hard hard productive work advances you.

Another thing I've seen over the years is how the HC's personality plays into coaching development. Pretty much every HC I've known is a control freak; sometimes that trait interferes with his ability to let go and trust his assistant. The best HC's recognize, for example, recognize that expertise in game management and defense doesn't necessarily translate to teaching pitching. Unfortunately, most HC's I know, have trouble delegating to asst's with expertise; the best thrive on hiring expertise to paper over the HC's weaknesses.

After the new coach gets a foot in the door for that first job, he can learn what he likes/dislikes in future opportunities (like every first job after college).

PitchingFan posted:

But I will throw a wrench in this which is also outside the norm.  I know of a couple of volunteer assistants that make upwards of $100,000 doing clinics, camps and lessons.  And most of that is paid in cash.  There is really good money at larger schools if the volunteer works it right.  At many schools, almost all of the camp money goes to the volunteer assistant which is why so many of you get the invites to camps.  If they run them right and bring in the right people to help there is a lot of money to be made.  Many also have great connections and will do clinics with former pro players or current pro players that will come to help them with their clinics or camps for free.  It really depends on the school and what they allow their volunteer assistant to do and what kind of a cut they give them on camps/clinics/lessons.

It is an exceptional case when someone other than the head coach owns the right to and determines the distribution of a program's camp money. No one considering a volunteer assistant's position should approach the role expecting otherwise.

One route is play miracle worker. A friend/former college summer ball teammate took over his now (at the time) down trodden former high school program at age 26. He returned them to prominence/state championship. At 31 he was hired by a historically weak to the point of being a joke D3 program. He made it a national power including national championships. He was only 36 for the first.

He’s had several D1 head coaching offers along the way. He’s very connected at the highest D1 level with former teammates and having been president of the college baseball coaches association.. He’s stayed at the D3 to win 1,000+ and have the field named after him.

From a visibility standpoint starting out he was a top three sport athlete in the state and a D1 college baseball All American. 

GREAT feedback and words of wisdom, gang, thanks!  Any additional feedback on what jobs along the chain at what levels paid nothing, minimal, OK and decent would be great information as well.  I know it will vary by school, even at same levels and conferences, but still... more anecdotal stories are invaluable.

I started this thread with the stated selfish reasons in mind but I think, as usual, this has turned into a discussion that can help many who are considering, beginning or in the early stages of this path.  And, I think that applies to so many who play/ed at the HS level or above, so is definitely relevant to the site.

Prepster posted:

PitchingFan posted:

But I will throw a wrench in this which is also outside the norm.  I know of a couple of volunteer assistants that make upwards of $100,000 doing clinics, camps and lessons.  And most of that is paid in cash.  There is really good money at larger schools if the volunteer works it right.  At many schools, almost all of the camp money goes to the volunteer assistant which is why so many of you get the invites to camps.  If they run them right and bring in the right people to help there is a lot of money to be made.  Many also have great connections and will do clinics with former pro players or current pro players that will come to help them with their clinics or camps for free.  It really depends on the school and what they allow their volunteer assistant to do and what kind of a cut they give them on camps/clinics/lessons.

It is an exceptional case when someone other than the head coach owns the right to and determines the distribution of a program's camp money. No one considering a volunteer assistant's position should approach the role expecting otherwise.

I get your point but I think most P5 and big D1 schools use their camp money to pay volunteer assistants.  Most of the 30 plus volunteer assistant coaches that I know/known all received the major portion of the camp money at all levels from juco to P5.  Any HC that is not giving his VA the camp money is probably having a hard time finding a VA.  This is the norm in college baseball along with doing lessons and clinics.  Plus they get money representing the school at camps and clinics hosted by organizations and other colleges. 

One of the coaches I earlier referenced developed a relationship with the local PONY league.

The league wanted to develop an alternative to its winter instructional league, which had been dad coached. The league sent out a "RFP" to the local batting cage, local HS coaches, and the above referenced coach who was at that time a low paid asst.

He responded, and laid out an "academy" program curriculum focused on skill development, with budgets. He used NAIA current players, paid them appropriately, and learned (under the tutelage of some business types on the PONY board) how to start and run a business.

The kids got to practice under college players whose goals were to make baseball fun and instructive. Winter games had no scores and were purely instructive. Eventually the old Winterball program disappeared as kids gravitated into the academy. 

The coach made great money, the kids met mentors, improved their game and baseball - for winter season - became fun, non-competitive, all delivered by local college players. (As an aside, two of those players subsequently became HCs.)

The point of this story is that there are creative ways to augment lowly paid coaches while serving the community.

RJM posted:

TPM’s son went from AAA at 28yo, to ACC volunteer assistant while finishing his degree, to Sunshine Conference D2 pitching coach and top recruiter for two years, to pitching coach at a CUSA D1. He’s been there three years.

I’m guessing playing and volunteer coaching at Clemson had its connections. Plus he was a well known prospect in Florida coming out of high school. 

FYI, son is entering his 4th assistant coaching year. One season at the Sunshine Conference D2 and just beginning third season at current CUSA D1 assistant coach.

After graduation, he went through the portal and applied for his first position, with references.  No Clemson connections, but good recommendations as a hard worker willing to learn (the key to advancement).He is now assistant coach to one of the HC that recruited him in HS.  

HOKIEONE, thank you for your very nice post. David hasn't changed much, he still works just as hard, even harder, as he did that summer.  He still hears from some of those players.  Again thank you!

I have already thanked my friend Prepster,  who is probably the most knowledgeable parent that I know regarding the college recruiting/college coaching experience.  Listen to him folks.  

I did some checking, I looked into 4 coaches who run top 25 programs. 15 years seemed to be the average time to get to the programs they are now in making a lot of money.  Check out Kevin O'Sullivan, what a ride he has had!

This is a great topic.  This job is very difficult but has it's rewards.  Its definetly not about the money.  But times have changed, with many coaches being former pro players, they seem to be able to become paid assistants very quickly. 

Cabbagedad,  hope your son is doing well, as a D1 assistant he should (but not maybe) have a decent compensation package for a reasonable cost to him. 401k, pension if a state employee, car or rental for travel, school credit card. Those things for beginning coaches is a big plus.  However, the higher RPI of the program, the higher the expectations.  

TPM

TPM, so glad you responded!  

This site reallt needs your wisdom & knowledge!

Edited to add:  for TPM

Yeah, I’m sooo glad you are back!  I almost emailed you, even tho tho I don’t know you personally. But I’ve always enjoyed reading your frank opinions!

PitchingFan posted:

But I will throw a wrench in this which is also outside the norm.  I know of a couple of volunteer assistants that make upwards of $100,000 doing clinics, camps and lessons.  And most of that is paid in cash.  There is really good money at larger schools if the volunteer works it right.  At many schools, almost all of the camp money goes to the volunteer assistant which is why so many of you get the invites to camps.  If they run them right and bring in the right people to help there is a lot of money to be made.  Many also have great connections and will do clinics with former pro players or current pro players that will come to help them with their clinics or camps for free.  It really depends on the school and what they allow their volunteer assistant to do and what kind of a cut they give them on camps/clinics/lessons.

I may be wrong but in most cases the HC is the owner of the camps and he decides who gets paid and how much. VA will get a monthly check based on previous years projections. He is in charge of camps and the 2 paid assistants will run hitting and prospect camps only and based on attendance get paid as well.  Together as in most  cases the HC, VA and students run regular camp with other VA from other programs.  The HC camp has expenses as well. 

The VA cannot use the school facilities for his own lessons or clinics.  Any former player or professional who comes to help run camps needs to be cleared by background check which includes fingerprints which is a requirement if you work with children in any capacity in FL. Most VA have daily responsibilities which include helping the assistants with practice, drills, paperwork. Some do better than others but between taking advantage of free tuition and working alongside the coaches on a daily basis there isn't really time for much else. I know that the hitting coach where son coaches who is also the RC is the VA mentor. They work on infield and outfield skills. 

I think the HC philosophy as well as others, is that if you want to make money at this job, it's not going to happen right away, go work at an indoor facility giving clinics and lessons and forget about coaching.  Just my opinion on that.

Everyone is keeping their fingers crossed the 4th paid assistant will pass, if for any reason they will be able to get benefits.

EDIT: As a paid assistant you can give lessons to anyone not considered a prospect.  With all the work that has to be put in on a daily basis, how is there time to do that if the expectation is to have a successful team year in and year out?   Success means different things to different programs.  In many cases, you will eventually be out of a job if you don't make your conference championship and also the post season. And in all cases that means every coach paid or unpaid has to be all in, all of the time.

So tell me how does any VA make 100k?