What are the main effects of a college coach leaving a program? Do the new coaches typically make major changes to the roster? Is this a good time to look at transferring? I understand the NLI rules.
Even though the NCAA expects the player to make the decision to play at a college based on factors independent of the coaching staff, that is unreasonable. The coach was/is a big part of my son's decision.
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Legget was fired the summer before my son was headed to Clemson. Monte Lee asked the guys to meet with him and allow him to discuss his vision. After that meeting, Ryley stayed and it worked out. Several kids transferred/opted out, two of whom would have probably helped us get to Omaha, those stung.
Cal Raleigh and Jackson Kowar both opted out after Legget was let go.
We lost Cornelius Randolph and Jalen Miller to the draft, those just happen when you recruit top level talent.
If you have a verbal commitment there is a good chance the incoming coach may pull back the offer.
If a player isn’t locked in to where he fits on the team prepare for anything. If the player’s playing style doesn’t match the coach’s coaching style prepare for anything.
When deciding on a college I can understand staying away from a coach the player doesn’t like. But if a program is losing or the coach’s reputation is on the rise buyer beware.
How frequently are college coaches dismissed for a losing program? For example, if a coach takes over a losing program how long will he have to turn it around? What if they take over a winning program and it starts to be a losing program (over 4 years)?
Surprised to see some college coach changes today. Maybe worries me more than my son?
Depends on a few things, the first being the level of baseball. Is the coach moving up in levels or was he an assistant at a big time program and coming down for a head coaching position? Moving from a weaker D1 to a better program would most likely mean he doesn't have the guys to recruit yet and hasn't really been exposed to the roster's level of talent yet. Coming from a AC position at a P5 to a smaller D1 as HC then he is probably looking to move some guys who were unhappy there to the new school.
For an incoming freshman I would not be that concerned. The guys he was recruiting at his previous school have also signed NLIs, put deposits down at this point, and some even started summer classes. There would be a lot of hoops to jump thru to get what he wanted, assuming he wants to clean house. I think it would be more concerning for juniors and seniors who have not really played/performed this far. A freshman can develop, especially under a new staff, a senior who hits .229 and doesn't walk is just a weak hitter.
As for what you can control. If you he wants to transfer that is up to you guys, but have him reach out to the new coach and introduce himself. If you live close to campus or a major tournament hotspot drive over and meet him for an hour. Who knows maybe he says he's heard a lot about your son and is excited to see him play. If you really want to play for the old coach that is something you have to take up with him.
Personally I would stay put. Your son was recruited by that school because that is the level he mostly likely fits at, not just because the coach liked him. He only recruited you because he was coaching at that school and you only signed because he was the coach of that school. If he was the coach of a random D1 with a bad record in a bad conference would you still have signed? If he got the LSU job would he still be recruiting your kid? All things to consider.
Much of it depends on the scenario. Is the coach leaving in good standing? Has he been successful? Is he being forced out because he was not winning? Is there a transition plan for a new coach already in place? Or was a new coach search done? Does the current coach have any history with the program? Does the new coach have any track record when taking over a program?
The answers can be varied as the coaches themselves. I would not be able to predict with any sort of certainty,
However, the answer to your question might exist in the answer to some of the questions I proposed.
Edit - I was not fast enough. PABaseball beat me to it.
When a head coach leaves an NCAA Division I program, the new coach has the right to say "You can stay on scholarship at this university until you graduate, but you won't play for me or even be a member of this program moving forward." Then the athlete must decide if they want to stay until the completion of their degree or are going to transfer to continue playing college ball.
Tis the season.
One of the best reasons imaginable to use a broad range of characteristics, ones beyond those pertaining solely to the baseball program, when making a college decision.
Thank you for all of the responses. I am a planner by nature and the college baseball landscape definitely has me outside of my comfort zone. But, I am not the main character of this story. I am not sure I am even in this story. I am just a worrier, planner, mom, and number one fan.
I have heard this argument above a couple of times that an athlete should only choose a school based on the school itself and leave baseball out of the equation or if baseball is in the equation is has less weight.
Am I right to understand that the expectation is that if the coach leaves the program and they have made it clear that they do not want you for their roster that you should just stay put and give up baseball altogether? If a coach over recruits and there is not a roster spot for you, you should stay put and be happy with your college choice? If the school has MANY players in your position and you cannot play there due to depth, you should accept your fate and go to class?
My son and I am sure that some of your sons are working for a career in some capacity in baseball. (Time will tell what that will be.) My son, along with your sons are talented in baseball.
Some coaching/ staffing decision that has nothing to do with my son or his teammates should not change what he is working for. Baseball is the overriding factor for most of the decisions in his life, including which college to choose. To expect anything different from 18/19-year-olds with a baseball career mindset is not really fair.
He has to work out basically every day, work with a personal trainer, a pitching coach, play in games, throw bullpens, attend volunteer events and manage equipment etcetera, all to do what he loves. He makes all of those decisions and sacrifices and then he should just accept obstacles and not fight for what he wants?
I appreciate all of the guidance on this board, it is an invaluable tool.
As others have said, this depends entirely on the circumstances of the coach's departure. But here is a fresh example of the coach being replaced because the school is trying to upgrade the program. Pitt hasn't had a winning conference record since joining the ACC in 2014. The current coach was hired last summer.
If baseball is his #1 priority, and it sounds like it is, you probably need to have a Plan B and be proactive about it. Some players, if cut, would stay at their school for non-baseball reasons. If your son is not in that camp (I doubt my son would be either), then you may need to plan for the worst case scenario.
I'm not sure what year your son is, you mention the potential of transferring. I guess that means he's already gone through a season, how did he play, do you think his spot would be in jeopardy?
If he's an incoming freshman, you may want to reach out to the new coach and speak with him. Also, maybe think about reaching out to other schools who recruited him.
It's a tough spot, but if in that situation, I think I would do everything possible to make sure my son would be able to resume his playing career at some capacity, if that's what he wanted.
Good luck!
mamabb0304 posted:Am I right to understand that the expectation is that if the coach leaves the program and they have made it clear that they do not want you for their roster that you should just stay put and give up baseball altogether? If a coach over recruits and there is not a roster spot for you, you should stay put and be happy with your college choice? If the school has MANY players in your position and you cannot play there due to depth, you should accept your fate and go to class?
Some coaching/ staffing decision that has nothing to do with my son or his teammates should not change what he is working for. Baseball is the overriding factor for most of the decisions in his life, including which college to choose. To expect anything different from 18/19-year-olds with a baseball career mindset is not really fair.
He has to work out basically every day, work with a personal trainer, a pitching coach, play in games, throw bullpens, attend volunteer events and manage equipment etcetera, all to do what he loves. He makes all of those decisions and sacrifices and then he should just accept obstacles and not fight for what he wants?
I appreciate all of the guidance on this board, it is an invaluable tool.
A few things. The first is that everybody moving on to the next level is working hard, taking lessons, working out, throwing bullpens, volunteering, etc. It's not just your son. Those are just some of the basic requirements to get you to the next level. There are talented guys that can get to the next level, but can't stay there if they aren't doing any/all of those things.
As for the staffing/coaching decisions. That does involve the recruiting classes and the teammates unfortunately. I'm assuming the coach was fired. That is a direct result of him not being able to get those kids to play at the school's standards. If the kids were playing at a higher level, they'd be winning. If the coach was recruiting players that weren't performing and developing then it would speak to his inability to recruit the right players. That is why many coaches keep what they can work with and clean out the rest. All conference sophomore probably gets to stay. Incoming freshman topping at 84 can easily be swapped out for a JUCO kid throwing 90. Especially when the new guy can recruit on his own terms the following year. But it's not just the 2019 class. The 2020/2021 commits will be under a microscope all summer as well.
In terms of the actual school, never rule baseball out of the equation, just don't put all your eggs in the baseball basket. You should be choosing a school that if you suffered a career ending injury you would feel comfortable attending that school as a student and getting a degree. Nobody is staying stay put or to quit baseball, it doesn't work out for about half the kids at their first school. But if you hate the school you really have nobody to blame but yourself. If you no longer want to attend the school based on the coach you should really start reaching out to other schools now. With the draft coming up in a few days coaches will be looking to fill some gaps. If you gave more information on the current situation without naming the school I'm sure others could point you in the right direction. Where is new coach from (conf), what conf are you guys in? Was the coach fired or did he take a new job, etc.
These decisions always seem harsh and cruel but the truth is they're footing at least 25% of the bill. When they are giving aid they have the right to make personnel decisions. That coaches mortgage is paid based on the roster and their ability to perform.
My 2020 is going through this right now with the school he committed to. Hope to find out soon what is going on.
MamaBB,
It would help if you were able to give level (P5, mid D1, D2, etc.). There are some differences in what the norm is with each. Another separator is HA vs. non-HA.
That said, coaching changes are a fairly regular part of the landscape. I definitely understand some of your questioning with regards to keeping the coaches out of the decision making process and deciding on a school with the "would you still choose this school if baseball was removed" as a criteria. For many, the dialog and relationship with the coach/es becomes an integral part of the process. And, for many, baseball is more of a driving force than the academic aspect - it can be the primary motivator in keeping a student-athlete engaged in the academic side of college.
You have to understand the rationale behind the advice. The 4-40 argument is real. When the player is done playing, whether that is next year due to injury or cut from a program, four years from now after his senior year of college, or six years from now as the very good player finds himself hopelessly flailing in the minor league world of countless other very good players, he will have to have his college education and passion for his next chapter in place. What will he do for the next 40 years and what college experience has best prepared him for that? With regards to coaching changes, a recruit has to be aware that is can be a fairly common thing. So, he must consider the possibility in the decision making process. If, at some point during his college career, the coach/es moves on, will he still be in a place he wants to be? Granted, it is most difficult when the change occurs before he even steps on the campus as a freshman.
I always preach balance. If a young man is 100% baseball, a parent would be wise to make him aware of the 4-40 reality and encourage him to explore other interests so that when the inevitable happens, he has a starting point, some other things that he can identify with, both from a career and a personal interest standpoint. Can he move on and stay in the game? Yes, but that too is a perilous path with lots of dead ends. "Well, he'll just get into coaching." Sounds great. Is he prepared to work for nothing or next-to-nothing for the usual 6-10 years of "paying dues" after he gets his bachelors degree? That is the norm in this hugely overcrowded field with far more supply than demand. Hope he doesn't have much in student loans and you are still prepared to carry some of his expenses for a while. What? he met the right woman and wants to settle down? Hope she's good with living on nothing for a while. Start a family? Hmmm.
One of my sons is well on his way down this path (college coaching, not starting a family 
). There is no one I know who is better suited to successfully navigate it. But, at any time in the next year or five, he could find himself at the end of those efforts due to lack of available career earning opportunities. He is moving full steam ahead, but still keeping one eye on what a plan B would be should that day come.
So, yes, if your son is driven largely by baseball at this point, a transfer may end up being a serious consideration. He should get informed as quickly as possible. If there is a new guy in place, he should contact him ASAP and try to get a feel for where he stands. Subsequently, he should be reaching out to other schools that were in play during the recruiting process and let them know what has happened and that there is a possibility that he will be put in a position to make a move (check any NCAA restrictions on this). Work on a solid plan B.
Best to him!
I don't think you can take the coach out of the scenario if you are going there for baseball and I know this goes against some of you guys and gals. My son is going to his school because of baseball. Take baseball out of the scenario and he would probably go to a different school that was cheaper and closer to home in state. The coach is one of the main reasons that he is going. If the coach left tomorrow and took his pitching coach, we would be looking for another option, probably juco if he could not go with coach.
I do a lot of things in life because of the people not the institution. The people are a huge reason that I choose a lot of places in my life. College is the same for many people who have sports as the reason they are going. I know some of your kids are playing to pay for college but some of ours are going to college to get them ahead in sports. My son dreams of playing pro ball (and probably has a real good chance of getting the opportunity), then his next choice would be coaching or broadcasting. Sports is his future. It seems like some on here will trash a kid or family that chooses a school because of baseball and I don't think that is a bad thing. 2 of my 3 sons chose the college they did because of baseball. The third had a lot of opportunities to go play college ball at many levels but chose a different path. He went to a local D1 to get a degree, which he doesn't use, and started his own business and is a varsity HS basketball coach. To every person their own path.
mamabb0304 posted:Thank you for all of the responses. I am a planner by nature and the college baseball landscape definitely has me outside of my comfort zone. But, I am not the main character of this story. I am not sure I am even in this story. I am just a worrier, planner, mom, and number one fan.
I have heard this argument above a couple of times that an athlete should only choose a school based on the school itself and leave baseball out of the equation or if baseball is in the equation is has less weight.
Am I right to understand that the expectation is that if the coach leaves the program and they have made it clear that they do not want you for their roster that you should just stay put and give up baseball altogether? If a coach over recruits and there is not a roster spot for you, you should stay put and be happy with your college choice? If the school has MANY players in your position and you cannot play there due to depth, you should accept your fate and go to class?
My son and I am sure that some of your sons are working for a career in some capacity in baseball. (Time will tell what that will be.) My son, along with your sons are talented in baseball.
Some coaching/ staffing decision that has nothing to do with my son or his teammates should not change what he is working for. Baseball is the overriding factor for most of the decisions in his life, including which college to choose. To expect anything different from 18/19-year-olds with a baseball career mindset is not really fair.
He has to work out basically every day, work with a personal trainer, a pitching coach, play in games, throw bullpens, attend volunteer events and manage equipment etcetera, all to do what he loves. He makes all of those decisions and sacrifices and then he should just accept obstacles and not fight for what he wants?
I appreciate all of the guidance on this board, it is an invaluable tool.
I would never recommend to a high school player who is passionate about the game and talented enough to contribute at the collegiate level that he make the choice devoid of baseball-related considerations; but, I've seen too many players over the years who seemed to weigh the baseball factors so heavily that they ended up attending a school that is so distant from their expectations of what the college experience holds for them that they get there and struggle to identify with what life there outside of baseball holds for them. When this happens, it can have both on and off-the-field ramifications.
If they choose to follow the baseball-heavy decision path, they're creating the potential for disappointment and major disruption when (1) the coach they loved departs, (2) they experience a serious injury, (3) they can't/won't live up to the academic/regulatory requirements, (3) they can't get comfortable with the school's social/geographic setting... You get the picture.
It's virtually a given at this website that baseball considerations should be at or near the top of the list of factors considered when weighing opportunities; but, in my opinion, they shouldn't be so influential that they cause a player to make a choice that sets them up for disappointment and upheaval if the baseball picture changes abruptly. Unfortunately, often for reasons completely unexpected and out of their control, that happens with some frequency.
With adequate due diligence, players and their families can gain as much insight about the non-baseball factors as they routinely do about those concerning baseball. I'd strongly encourage that they invest the time and effort, and then listen to the warning signs if consideration of the non-baseball elements raises doubts for them.
This year's D1 list:
MidAtlanticDad posted:This year's D1 list:
They need to add USC to this list.
Smitty28 posted:MidAtlanticDad posted:This year's D1 list:
They need to add USC to this list.
It's there now.
Here ya go for D3:
Add Nebraska.
