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We've all heard horror stories about college coaches (whether D1, D2, D3 or JUCO) who will say anything to get a recruit in the door, play the bait & switch game, etc.

But looking at the situation from a positive perspective - who are the college coaches that have demonstrated good integrity? Not just a listing of reputations obtained third hand. Rather who are coaches with whom posters have fairly close knowledge that have a track record of honesty and uprightness in their dealings?

This kind of information could be invaluable to those who are either entering, or soon will be entering, the recruting process.

Let the list begin...

Mark Johnson, SHSU

others?
"Show me a guy who won't pitch inside and I'll show you a loser" Sandy Koufax
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PD,

I agree with you. I have lately stooped to a level that I shouldn't have.

But on my first post with this thread, again I speak nothing but facts. As Texan's only know-all about me is "third-hand" information. I've grown tired of his comments towards me.

If he disregards my thoughts or opinions, I can handle that. I am educated enough to realize he won't be the only one.

But when he makes assumptions on third hand information and posts them, I will not stand for it.

Finally, if Texan wishes to clear anything up that he might feel need for, he can surely contact me and I will be more than glad to meet with him in person to discuss anything he needs answers on.
Last edited by Ken Guthrie
Ditton Krace4:
From my experience w/Coach Weintraub he is in baseball for the right reasons and has helped a lot of players on and off the field.

In fact, Coach Weintraub is in the process of publishing a book on the mental approach to baseball, I along with several others have had the opportunity to preview the rough draft of this book and it is GOOD STUFF!
quote:
Originally posted by honest and unbiased:
I think this is a terrible topic. Unless a person has played for a respective coach, knows him personally, does a tremendous amount of research, I don't think they sould be making a judgement on someones integrity; especially behind some monikor on a message board.


This is not a negative thread. Not asking for who is lacking integrity.

From the origin of this thread:
"...who are the college coaches that have demonstrated good integrity? Not just a listing of reputations obtained third hand. Rather who are coaches with whom posters have fairly close knowledge that have a track record of honesty and uprightness in their dealings?"

How can that be terrible? I don't understand how someone saying something positive about a college coach can be terrible. Please explain.
Texan,
To answer your questions about why I think this is a bad topic.

I just think that you have to know a person very well to be able to comment about his integrity one way or another good or bad.
In addition just because a person or recruit has a good or bad experience one way or another may have nothing to do with the coaches integrity.

How about we bring the topic closer to home and add "local parents, high school coaches, select coaches, who have demonstrated integrity and have a track record of honesty and uprightness in their dealings" to the discussion.

Do we assume if a person is not mentioned that he has no integrity?

I don't think that that was the intent of your topic but I have seen so many topics end up so "off topic" and ugly that this one justs seems to me to be a ticking timebomb waiting to go off.

Lastly I don't think ANYBODY is qualified to voice an opinion about a persons integrity, good or bad, if they don't have the b*lls to do so under their own name.

JMO
This particular topic and topics of late... including all of the negativity associated with them... have FINALLY succeeded in making me realize that I am wasting way too much time in the Texas Forum and maybe on the Internet in general.

It's off to the Recruiting Forum... General Items Forum... maybe a little CNN.com for a while. Too bad since I have made some really great friends in the Texas Forum and have learned a LOT from some of you!
Last edited by momandcpa
In my opinion, the idea that one has to use his/her real name to post with credibility is off-base. There are people here that do not use their real names but their posts are always above board -- 100% of the time. Because some hide behind nicknames to spread....stuff....should not imply that it is a universal trait. Making that judgment reflects a bias that you are arguing against, Tom.

I think it is safe to assume that the names posted on this thread represent men that have demonstrated integrity in dealing with at least some kids. Obviously, we don't know whether they vote democrat or what movies they rent. Smile But they have shown a degree of integrity, or they wouldn't be mentioned. Also, no one should look here for a comprehensive list of men with integrity --- it is simply a way to communicate positive experiences to those that are involved in the recruting process. Many great men will not be mentioned --- rather than assume the worst, I assume that posters here simply have not had recent contact with all coaches.

I like knowing ahead of time that Coach X has been upright, honest, and fair with some of you.

JMO.

-Randy
Last edited by Panther Dad
Leaving the message board may be a good move for some. Some have already left -- many are & will be missed. The bottom line is....do you find information here that will help your family during the recruiting process? Or...is it a hobby/entertainment for you? I know many get tired of the....stuff (there's that word again)....but I think I'll hang around, waiting for people to come to their senses. At least for a few more years! Smile
It can be both .....informative and entertaining....some days more informative than others and some days are more entertaining than others.... Wink

If it was all informative it might get boring...if it was all entertaining then it would be uninformative.

I can honestly say that I have learned something from each and every active poster. There are definitely different "styles of delivery" but lots of good information none-the-less.
Last edited by cheapseats
PD,
When you have people on here slamming kids, their parents, their high school coaches, in post after post on various unrelated topics, I just thought that this topic was a bad idea. JMO.

You say that if someone is not mentioned that you would not assume the worst but assume that posters on here have not had recent contact with those coaches. I would say that everybody may not be as rational as you. Heck on one topic recently some were concerned that people may not patronize a certain local baseball establishment because they didn't like or had a distate for what an employee or employees might post. Not very rational thinking in my opinion.

It wasn't my intent to make this a negative topic. If my posts have done so then sorry. I'll just simply skip over this topic when browsing for reasons previously stated. No big deal.
h&u, if someone has demonstrated integrity in their dealings with me, I am glad to tell other people about that experience. It doesn't mean they are perfect. In fact, we all know that no one on this earth is perfect. So do we say that no one has integrity? I think not.

Is asking that question on this forum going to give perfect results? Of course not.

But some of us have boys who are, or will be, in the recruiting process. And it would be nice to know if someone out there feels that Coach X has shown integrity.

If you don't feel comfortable saying something positive about a coach because you haven't known him intimately all your life, then don't. That is okay.

I am not concerned about adding parents or HS coaches to this, because that isn't pertinent to my reason for starting this thread. If someone wants that info, then let them start another thread.

If we have reached the point that we can't say nice things about people...
Texan I have a question and this is for discussion only. If an excellent academic and baseball school offered say your son 80% but the integrity of the coaching staff was not beyond approach, what would be your actions keeping in mind there are excellent programs out there but the staff might not meet the elements of your initial question.
Last edited by SWAC
H&U -- I know your motives are straightforward. Just for the record, my previous "irrational thinking" was more an interpretation of the ongoing discussion concerning DBAT. I too think the business-impact concern is a relatively minor issue.

And you're right to the extent that some will look for a name in this discussion and jump to conclusions if it is absent.
SWAC - There are a couple of programs where I would not want my son to go, regardless of the offer, because of things the coach has done in the past. What good is an 80% offer (if there ever was such a thing) the first year, if the coach is going to set it to 0% the next year?

Is there any way possible to keep this positive?

I'll turn this around. Texan son gets an absolutely incredible offer (50%) from a school. I'm not that familiar with the coach. But I find some folks that say he is a person who has demonstrated integrity. Will that help Texan son make a better decision?
Last edited by Texan
Texan,

The recruiting process will afford you enought time to get to know the coaches well enough to make the right decision.

That's what the official visit is for. The visit is usually structured so that you and your son will meet the coaches, academic advisors, other players, players in other sports, etc.

If they are interested in your son playing for them, they will try to show you all the benefits of their program and school.

But, get ready, they will talk with your son more than you.

From my experience, the decision to cut the scholly from 80% to 0% the next year is not because the coach is the demon so commonlhy portrayed on these forums.

It is most likely because the player did not make the contribution that was anticipated.

Contribution does not mean only effort. It means wins and K's for pitchers, hits and rbi's for hitters. Results, in other words.

In college your son will be judged on performance and rewarded accordingly.

And, the standard will be shockingly, high.

A sobering fact for some..............
Last edited by FormerObserver
I believe on the theory of don't always believe what you hear or read................

In that case, make judgements for yourself. Wink

There are several people that were portrayed as "good guys" with the Rangers organzization. After spending personal time around them I believed the complete opposite. And visa versa.

People have agenda's and support who has supported them. Doesn't mean it will most likely happen in your particular case.

Again, try to judge things such as integrity on your own experiences if possible.

JMHO.
quote:
In college your son will be judged on performance and rewarded accordingly.

A sobering fact for some..............


That is the bottomline truth. You have at best a 1 year evaluation and that's it. If you get that.

As for the rest of this topic, this board is what it is...a message forum. Nothing more and nothing less. Personally, I've learned to seperate the wheat from the chaff on this board. Speaking of integrity, I've learned just from my few years, who has it and who doesn't on this board.

As for college coaches with integrity, you have to do you homework.
FO- I think your post is a great point. It shows why we as the students and the baseball players need to find a situation that fits us academically, athletically, socially, etc. I know this may get people going-which is never my intent- but take this hypothetical. If a kid gets a full ride to a baseball powerhouse, but the school is not up to par academically; socially; etc, what should he do? In my situation I'd find a fit at a school that if I walked onto the field one day and tore a ligament in my arm, I'd be fine for the rest of my life. I've heard many stories dealing with kids that go to upper level baseball schools and all they do is transfer from one to another each year. I personally couldn't live like that. This (the importance of finding a school that truly fits you or your kid) could go for all sports. I truly feel that if a kid has the drive, ability, and a little bit of luck, the pro scouts will find him... no-matter where he goes to school.
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Guthrie:
Again, try to judge things such as integrity on your own experiences if possible.


That is not practical. It is impossible to have personal experiences with every college coach in the state of Texas.

And it is not possible to judge well based solely on a campus visit.

Just as in business. It isn't possible to have experience with every possible supplier. Sure I will meet with the supplier and do as much homework as I can. But if someone, in whose judgement I have some faith, speaks well of a certain supplier then I can have a better comfort level.



quote:
As for college coaches with integrity, you have to do you homework.


That's what I'm trying to do here, in part...
quote:
Originally posted by Texan:
h&u, if someone has demonstrated integrity in their dealings with me, I am glad to tell other people about that experience. It doesn't mean they are perfect. In fact, we all know that no one on this earth is perfect. So do we say that no one has integrity? I think not.

But some of us have boys who are, or will be, in the recruiting process. And it would be nice to know if someone out there feels that Coach X has shown integrity.


Ok, I have avoided this thread long enough.............and I have to agree with what Texan says above because I thought this is what we were all about,,,,,,,,,,,,,

A SOURCE TO GATHER, TO SHARE and TO WEIGH information............that is what I think he was trying to acheive by opening this thread.

The discussion was not titled, Coaches you want to slam or Coaches that have done you wrong....it was titled Coaches with Integrity.......I find nothing wrong with that......as long as we stay on topic (seems harder and harder to do).

What I find interesting is how quickly this was turned to a negative. Was it turned that way because some wanted to get a stab at Texan? (gee I have been victim of that numerouse times).

Was it turned negative because that is the nature these days to assume that any thread is an underlying negative?

Come on,,,,,,,let's not read into this anymore than we have.

A simple request by a father that has a son that might be active in the recruiting process wants to know first hand experience who is/was a coach that someone felt had integrity(i.e. is a GOOD/HONEST GUY)..........

This floors me because, after all, how many times have some of us used this forum to help people in the process of being recruited because it is a stressfull time and it is a time of unknowns because coaches are out there "selling the program" and as we all know it can be confusing and a fast and furious time for some so we tell these parents and players all the time to ask a former player, ask a current player what they think of a program, ask a parent of a player (like here on HSBB) what they think of a coach.......isn't this what Texan was doing????????????????????

I am no where near this step of the process but I do know if we were we would not be weighing how much money a school would be offering our son, mainly because school is already paid for him, it would be is it a good FIT- which means will you fit in the program as a player and will you work well with a coach....I would be asking lots of questions....

It is a big world out there and it is nice to have people that we respect (again like those on HSBB) to give us referrals, inside scoop,,,,,,,,I think they call that networking????????????


I guess I have just been wondering as I read through all of this Did I miss something here???????????????????? If so, then I really don't know what this site is for.

OK,,,,,I will beat everyone to it,yup I am on a soapbox.
Last edited by oldbat-never
OBN-
You said exactly what I was thinking. My son is in the process of trying to find a college where he would fit - academically and baseball wise. I would appreciate knowing if a coach that we are dealing with has a reputation of being honest and sincere. I pm'd another parent a few weeks ago to get his take on a certain school and a certain coach. I want to know! I want my son to know! I don't want us dealing with someone who is not known to be straight up. We are talking about kids with aspirations to play college ball for a coach who is going to have alot of impact. I don't know about anyone else here, but I sure want that coach to be a positive role model for my son!

So, Texan, thanks so much for wanting to put the word "integrity" on a coach. We need to know about those coaches that we can trust!

So, to add to the list - Steve Coleman, Hardin-Simmons. Nice guy! We just visited with him for about 3 1/2 hours, but he came highly recommended by others. Of the people that I talked to, all of the parents and players who have been involved with Steve's program were highly impressed with it.
Does Ken Guthrie ALWAYS reply here or is it just my imagination?

Ken?

And this thread is meaningless. Every one here knows of or actually knows the coaches that could be mentioned. And every impression is relative.

Ask Drew Bishop what he thought of the Arizona coaches and program three years ago versus what he may (before you jump - I said MAY) think of them today.
quote:
Originally posted by UTPanAmAlum:
Every one here knows of or actually knows the coaches that could be mentioned.


I, for one, don't. That is why I asked. Seems that at least one or two others are in the same boat.


quote:
Originally posted by UTPanAmAlum:
And every impression is relative.


Undeniably true. But with enough pieces, one can usually make out the puzzle.
I hestitantly speak for collikar, as she is more than capable of speaking for herself.

The purple plume of which you speak is currently being utilized to effect change in T-Bird son's Chemistry and Spanish III classes.

All joking aside, there has been a definite ill wind blowing on topics and posts. I realize there are times where something negative requires some discussion, but it seems to pervade more and more posts all the time.

I don't know if there is an assumption that there is an agenda with every post (parent boasting on/promoting their child, criticism of youth organizations, criticism of coaches, etc.), but I enjoy reading about Ken Guthrie's thoughts, even though I may agree with some and disagree with others. That goes for Texan, momandcpa, PD, KD, ob-n and even Train because he does crack me up, and anyone else who posts here. I don't agree with it all or disagree with it all, but I enjoy and learn from it all.

Perhaps we can learn to read these posts without so much skepticism. That is what is so tough about this board...I don't care how many smiley faces you stick up there, you can't convey intent and people seem to be more willing to type something they would never say to anyone face-to-face.
Last edited by tychco
quote:
Originally posted by Panther Dad:

Oh, and everything I type here I will type to you all in person!


That is a good rule of thumb for everyone. Don't type it if you wouldn't say it directly to someone AND in front of 100 strangers. Smile

Sorry PD for calling you an OLD wise man, I guess I didn't put enough smiley faces on the post so you would know I was just messin with ya. Smile
Last edited by cheapseats
Met with Coach Johnson and Coach Blair at SHSU this week. I consider myself a pretty good judge of people. As a Sales Manager it is my job. While there is the chance that they could be better at it than I, I would still say that I would trust these men with my child. That is what is important to me. This may sound corny, but These coaches will be a big part of my childs life. They will always be part of his make up as a man.

That being said, our egos are not a part of this process. My son just wants to play ball. And in the end he will need not only a Coach, but a friend and mentor.
Hi. First, thank you for mentioning my name in this conversation. Second, I just joined this site, and am looking forward to some good discussions. Finally...

For those of you with sons who are going to play college sports, there is little in my mind that is more important than who his coaches will be. (The only more important question is would this school be a good fit if he has a career-ending injury the first day.) I have coached college ball for 13 years (I just resigned to be a full-time performance consultant this summer) and I have seen some great coaches and some poor ones. Several awful ones. Both make significant differences in the lives of the student-athletes under their charge. Furthermore, ALL are adept in recruiting, so the "sales job" that parents get once they have decided to pursue your son does NOT indicate the quality of the man very well.

Therefore, I believe this conversation could have extraordinary value for some of you. Not being currently affiliated, I am happy to sing the praises of coaches who I know are of high quality. Publicly, I will not criticize anyone or comment on a coach who I do not have first-hand knowledge of. That's just FYI, if you want to ask. First hand knowledge of these men from those who have gone before you is the best way to determine your confidences for sending your son to their charge.

Thanks again for thinking of me as a quality coach. I do try.

-Aaron
Welcome Aboard CoachTraub (Aaron).....It is great to have you here!!!!!

This is a great site, lots of friendly baseball crazy folks, we have a lot of people just itching to learn and to share... This site is amazing and sometimes it can be "a bumpy ride", but overall it is just a wonderful resource and a great place to network.

Welcome!!! we appreciate your experience and your insight on this topic and any others!

I will be sending you a PM as I have a question for you and I am not sure if your email is the same...
Last edited by oldbat-never
Have to say that we were all very impressed with Raynor Noble & company @ U. of Houston....
A couple of sons former teammates are there, one from Coppell, one from Denton.

Rick Jones & Mark Kingston @ Tulane...Son thinks the world of them both...and so far they are true to their word!!

Both schools seem to be looking out for the kids...lots of mentoring, great commeraderie amongst the players, so far.
It's probably not surprising, but I'm impressed by all three coaches at Baylor. Jack Leggett at Clemson is great, as is his former assistant, Tim Corbin, now at Vanderbilt. Mike Martin at FSU is another I'm sure about. Stuart Lake recently left OleMiss for the Citadel. There are lots of other excellent coaches, but also some "me" guys in leadership positions. If you have an idea what level or area of the country your son might play at, I wouldn't be fishing quite so much...
quote:
Originally posted by FormerObserver:
I have heard from an unreliable source that Aaron Weintraub is a former summer league coach whose team failed to make the trip to the Connie Mack World Series after all of his players were chosen to play in the Area Code tournament in California.


A futile attempt to be funny.

Maybe if the facts were stated versus assumptions than it would.

Although, I tend to consider the source before I smile.

In this case, only my monitor can see my grin. Wink
A guy I felt was very honest and had integrety is Darin Wright of Patten University (Oakland CA).

I applied for the job of asst. coach at his school and he offered me the job and said it was mine to have. Here is where the honesty and integrety come in. He said the job was only going to pay $3000 and that I probably would not be able to move from KY and make it in CA. He said since I would be selling a house and giving up a great high school teaching job he would feel bad if I couldn't make it financially.

I think a lot of people would just say "yeah you can make it" and see what happens.
KG:

CoachTraub

Is Aaron Weintraub who was mentioned earlier in this thread. He has coached at Cedar Valley, in Virgina and I don't have the rest but I am sure he will provide all the details if you like I do know he is in the midst of publishing a book on the mental approach to baseball. His background has been in both coaching and sports psychology.

I have attended one of his seminars, read the proof of his book and it is all good stuff. And he is a very approachable, nice guy.........
Last edited by oldbat-never
I am indeed the former assistant at Cedar Valley College in Dallas. Prior to that, I coached at Emory and UVa (where my degrees are from), Brevard in NC, and Presbyterian College in SC. Now I am a performance consultant for high school and above elite athletes. In addition to my work with Baylor Baseball and the University of Central Arkansas baseball and softball teams, I work with individuals or do group seminars on how to win the mental side of the game.

Thanks for asking.

-Aaron
quote:
Originally posted by CoachTraub:
I am indeed the former assistant at Cedar Valley College in Dallas. Prior to that, I coached at Emory and UVa (where my degrees are from), Brevard in NC, and Presbyterian College in SC. Now I am a performance consultant for high school and above elite athletes. In addition to my work with Baylor Baseball and the University of Central Arkansas baseball and softball teams, I work with individuals or do group seminars on how to win the mental side of the game.

Thanks for asking.

-Aaron


Nice to meet you and have you.

I played college ball for a man named Don Kalkstein. He was the performance enhancement coach with the Texas Rangers and now for the Boston Red Sox.

Do you know of him?
It was FO's attempt at humor, of course at your expense, so everybody here got the joke except for you. I myself thought it pretty funny.

I'm sure FO can give you his resume' also, but you wouldn't care about that either, because he probably didn't play the game at the same level you did.

But I bet if you ask his son, he can tell you that his dad knows a little about the game. Maybe you would take his son's opinion as he's playing the game at a pretty high level right now.

FO has also been a long time poster on this board and tells people how it is from time to time. He doesn't sugar coat anything and he always has a bit of Texas humor to impart for time to time that we enjoy.

If the world were saturated with FO's kind, it would indeed be a better world.
Last edited by KellerDad
Hi. Just FYI, no worries whatsoever. I was never insulted. I didn't get the inside joke, obviously, but that's fine. I was pretty sure I hadn't failed to win with good players in some kind of summer ball setting.

Ken, I do know of Don Kalkstein. I have had trouble figuring out if he was with Texas or Boston, so thanks for clarifying. I have visited with his assistant, Bob Tewksbury, who just finished his first year on the job. (I am a finalist for a similar assistant's position with the Rockies.) I know Don coached in Dallas, maybe even at Cedar Valley back before my time. I would, of course, love to meet him. Are you still in touch?
quote:
Originally posted by CoachTraub:
Hi. Just FYI, no worries whatsoever. I was never insulted. I didn't get the inside joke, obviously, but that's fine. I was pretty sure I hadn't failed to win with good players in some kind of summer ball setting.

Ken, I do know of Don Kalkstein. I have had trouble figuring out if he was with Texas or Boston, so thanks for clarifying. I have visited with his assistant, Bob Tewksbury, who just finished his first year on the job. (I am a finalist for a similar assistant's position with the Rockies.) I know Don coached in Dallas, maybe even at Cedar Valley back before my time. I would, of course, love to meet him. Are you still in touch?


I haven't spoken to him in a couple of years. I need to get in touch with him anyhow. Time flies and gets away from you sometimes.

He did coach at Cedar Valley I believe but I know him from his tenure at Northwood.

He went over to Boston with Francona. He was brought on with Texas by Dan O'Brien back in the Melvin days.

I'm sure he would love to talk with you and how he got his start. He was a video cordinator first before he became the Doctor of Minds. Wink

I'll see if I can't get a contact number for you.
With being the least controversial as possible please (anyone whom this applies to) please leave the drama (of all sorts) at the door. Don't bring it in here. As a student and an athlete, I was attracted to this board because it talks baseball-what I love to do. I must say of late (and just a slow compiling problem over time) that all the bickering and cross words (as joking or serious as they may be) have started to really discourage me from reading and or contributing to this site. What some people see as a clear joke, may not be as clear to someone else. I think that everyone's different backgrounds add to the quality of this site, and it's very interesting to see how the backgrounds can affect opinions, but when it becomes a constant battle in tons of different threads, I just want to yell stop. I've slowed down my posting because of school, but also because it isn't any fun in reading adults-supposedly mature people with kids of their own- bicker at eachother. I understand, some may be saying they are just defending themselves, and I see your point, but maybe sometimes there are more constructive ways. I don't mean this to insult any one person. This is a general comment on a tendency I've noticed through time. Honestly, to tell you the truth, this site is a perfect example on why politics are... politics.
Last edited by Dtiger
Lord, I apologize, to Mr. Guthrie for obtaining a laugh at his expense.

quote:
In this case, only my monitor can see my grin.


But, maybe a grin even from the offended person......

And, recollected some recruiting materials from the Coach, a long time ago............because Cedar Valley was one of the earliest pieces of mail to hit our house.

And, thanks to my friends for your support, but when I am out there on that limb like that by myself, those that know me well, would know probably not to join me..........
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