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So..anyway, I was wondering ...

an observation that was brought up in a recent thread..

3 mid major D1's so far and I still can't figure out what D1 pitching coaches do..

even when I talk to other parents from other schools- both bigger(P5) and smaller..

son says : they take that first slow stroll to the mound after you walk your 2nd or 3rd guy and give you the "take it easy- throw strikes" speech...

some call pitches in game (that most pitchers do not agree with and btw do not shake it off or else..)

sometimes they make travel arrangements for the team.

some may even be high tech and do some video/rapsodo type stuff at times..

maybe some babysitting here and there...

recruiting too..

many maybe are nice guys...

but do they coach and teach?



the reason I ask this is how does one's son improve and workout "things" in fall and during spring season?

whether its their 1st or 5th season?

are they just expected to work stuff out in the off season/summer ball?

work it out yourself maybe...dig deep...

ask your team mates for some advice?

maybe you have a pitching guru back home..?

an old travel coach?

maybe you have a Driveline or Tread coach on video speed dial ...for a pretty penny...?

but one thing I do know..
the teams pitching coach will most likely not help you with mechanics or improving "technique"

sure there may be an odd one here and there..

but that is a rarity..

maybe 18 to 25 kids are too much ..?

It is a weird situation..



just a thought..  if any of your kids eventually become a pitching coach ..

and you want to give them some advice..

be different.

first thing to do is to coach/teach/develop

the rest is logistical...

Last edited by fishnsail
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@fishnsail, like anything other vocation in life some are good at it and others are not. I understand your frustration and there are places where your comments are valid. And many where they are not. I am also a pitching coach although that’s not how I make a living. But I will offer some comments as food for thought. When I talk about pitching coaches I use a pie as a analogy.  Imagine the subject matter of pitching as a pie cut into 6 or 8 pieces. It’s not hard to find a pitching coach that knows about 1, 2, or 3 pieces of the pie well enough to teach it. He is probably regurgitating what was taught to him. But there are very few pitching coaches capable of teaching the whole pie. As a result most college pitchers tend to get incomplete instruction - which can not only be frustrating but also ineffective. However, it’s not a secret where the better college pitching coaches are and it’s your job as a parent to find that information if your son is a pitcher. I’m not saying that’s a simple thing to do but it’s possible. And btw TPM’s son is one of the better young pitching minds in D1 college baseball. But they are not all up to his standards. I will concede you that point. IMO there is a widespread lack of teaching at all levels of baseball until you get to the pro ranks. The job of parents, instructors, and advisors is to find the exceptions.

Thanks TPM and congrats on your son . sounds like he is different and making a great name for himself..

I posted this for a reason.

it is mostly my observations of the coaches and feedback I get from son and others..

we all hire PC for the kids in HS and so on and they tech and develop (hopefully)

in college that mostly goes out the window..

it's win first..other stuff not so important...



maybe frustration or maybe I see a need that isn't being filled (mostly) in college ball..

or both.

Last edited by fishnsail

Some are very good and some just recruit and then play the numbers game. I have two pitchers in college now.

One says his pitching coach only pays attention to half the staff. Instruction is mostly on their own and on their own time and if you're at the end of the depth chart odds are they aren't even watching your bullpen. Mine regularly checks in with another pitching coach for instruction - who does not charge. The pitching is good in their program but inconsistent. A few pitchers who have not been given opportunities have transferred out and found success at other programs/at the pro level which is frustrating to see (happy for them, just don't understand why they were written off in our program)

The other is at a program where the PC is heavily invested in his guys and probably gives them more opportunities than maybe some deserve. When we were doing the recruiting tours this PC stood out because he told us point blank that he would be a bit of a project and that he likely would have some growing pains as a freshman, but his goal was to build him up to get meaningful innings and by the end of conference play be a regular contributor. The goal was to have him ready to be one of his guys for sophomore year. So far things look like they are going to plan. In HS - he had asked the PC after one of his starts what he needed to work on. PC broke it down for him for about 45 minutes post game. A lot of the others that were asked the same question mostly gave one point and said something like keep up the good work, get stronger, etc.

TPM's son is an extrordinarily good pitching coach. He coached the pitchers for our Valley League team one summer and was the best we've ever had. He not only worked individually with our pitchers on techniques, he scouted upcoming opponents with an eye towards how each batter should be pitched, he let pitchers know when they would be throwing in games (short relief  or long, early in games or late, a long guy ready if our starter blows up, who is closing, etc.) so they could get their work in, and he met with our pitchers before games to discuss how we were going to pitch to certain batters.  We won the league title and he was a huge part of our success.  Ever since then, when we look for pitching coaches, we have him in mind as a model, and have actually suggested/required our pitching coaches to follow his mold.   This is what good pitching coaches do.

Last edited by hokieone

My son has had excellent pitching coaches throughout this life — mostly through pure dumb luck.

He started playing baseball 20 years ago (he's 23).  His first couple of pitching coaches both had played pro ball and I worried they would be too hard on him. I went to all the lessons and sat on a bench a few feet away, never heard a word those guys said because they talked only to my son. But they taught him to pitch, rather than just throw. They worked with him on grips, gave him workouts to develop his lower body (one great lesson was the first guy saying — develop your legs, otherwise you throw just with your arm. That's what I did and that's why I'm here teaching you instead of pitching in the majors).

When the older man died in a car accident, my son cried. After the funeral, he said mom, I feel stupid but he helped me make my fastball work last year. Now I'm taller and I've gained weight and I needed him to help me figure out how to adjust. What am I going to do?

College coaches revamped his motion so that he wouldn't rip his arm off, taught him to use analytics to improve the design of his pitches and to create and master new ones, and that was besides what they did in the dugout during games.

He had two different pitching coaches in college — both are now in the majors, but they still find time to watch his video, offer suggestions and occasionally, just chat.

Good ones, apparently, are gold.

Son just answered — scouting hitters from opposing teams; creating in-season/off-season throwing programs; finding what kind of improvements a player needs to make and then implementing a plan to achieve those improvements; decide who would pitch and when; call all pitches during game; direction on pitching philosophy, educate players on pitch sequencing, how to rad swings/hitters, arm care and health; recruiting;; help players move to the next level.

Just as a note — this guy started his career as a professor of kinesiology.

For college pitchers, their pitching coach will be their first boss in the adult world.  This is the guy (or gal) that is going to make you better in theory, and give you more tools to compete.   

My son and I looked & talked to many dozen pitching coaches when he was being recruited.  We saw two kinds of pitching coaches.   First is the PC who is going to take what you've learned to this point foundationally, and teach a player within the player's own framework.  The second type of PC is going to scrap the players foundation, and teach the player based on the coaches foundation (we called this the cookie cutter approach).  Essentially, it is like a house.  Are you going to build off an existing structure or tear the structure down to build something "better" in theory.   My son preferred the first type as we believed his mechanics were the strongest part of his game.   The best PC's can do both methods.

Chemistry between a recruit/player with their pitching coach or position coach is absolutely at the top of my list.  Trust and a logical approach to pitching were an important combo that my son was looking for.   His pitching coach was a crafty lefty who knew how to best communicate even though my son was a RHP.   Everbody's situation is different, and I think my son felt the most comfortable with that type of pitching coach.

JMO.

What I recollect from freshman year is my pitching coach was a disciplinarian. He commented I must have been stolen blind with my weak move in high school. I smiled and responded, “What base runners?”

I spent the rest of practice running poles. The lesson was this is the next level. Don’t be smug. You haven’t proved anything here.

@hokieone posted:

TPM's son is an extrordinarily good pitching coach. He coached the pitchers for our Valley League team one summer and was the best we've ever had. He not only worked individually with our pitchers on techniques, he scouted upcoming opponents with an eye towards how each batter should be pitched, he let pitchers know when they would be throwing in games (short relief  or long, early in games or late, a long guy ready if our starter blows up, who is closing, etc.) so they could get their work in, and he met with our pitchers before games to discuss how we were going to pitch to certain batters.  We won the league title and he was a huge part of our success.  Ever since then, when we look for pitching coaches, we have him in mind as a model, and have actually suggested/required our pitching coaches to follow his mold.   This is what good pitching coaches do.

Thank you Jay. What you described is basically what he does and what good pitching coaches do. This is a good  question to ask the coaches who are recruiting your player how does he prepare the staff, same question to the hitting and catching coach! I sound like Bob  (that's a compliment).

I remember my phone call to you asking if anyone needed a pcoach for that summer. Perfect timing! That whole experience lead to his first job!

Hope that all is well!

B

So then, the team ERAs of the two teams that have been described as having good PCs are very low.  Some teams have player ERAs that are much higher.  Is this a quick proxy, when someone is doing research about teams and pitching coaches?

Or is it too dependent on what kind of opponents the team is playing?  But you have to start somewhere with HS recruiting.

Just like any industry/position - when you meet a good one you know. Seems we have some really good examples here for the OP as they 'fish' and 'sale' their way thru the recruiting trail...  I still recall one PC during our recruiting time that took the time to talk with my son about a mechanical flaw on his tape and a reminder to use his legs more on his delivery. He took the extreme example of guys that landed wayyy far down the mound, but the point was made.

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