College Seniors Returning for Extra Year

@cabbagedad posted:

Well, it's about that time...  as campuses start to open up and baseball programs gather, there will be a flurry of information in the coming weeks about which of the Seniors from last season's abbreviated season will take advantage of the extra year of eligibility and return.

So far, in the short sample I am seeing, the numbers are higher than I expected.  I would be curious to hear from others, as things roll out, what they are seeing and hearing.

The ramblings I am hearing, mostly from online articles (in some cases, final decisions haven't been made)...

South Alabama           4 of 6

Mizzou          4

Wichita St          3  of 5

UT Martin          5 of 7

JMU          at least 3 of 8

Monmouth          4

Texas A&M          likely 4 of 6

 

Texas State               9 of 10 

@cabbagedad posted:

Well, it's about that time...  as campuses start to open up and baseball programs gather, there will be a flurry of information in the coming weeks about which of the Seniors from last season's abbreviated season will take advantage of the extra year of eligibility and return.

So far, in the short sample I am seeing, the numbers are higher than I expected.  I would be curious to hear from others, as things roll out, what they are seeing and hearing.

The ramblings I am hearing, mostly from online articles (in some cases, final decisions haven't been made)...

South Alabama           4 of 6

Mizzou          4

Wichita St          3  of 5

UT Martin          5 of 7

JMU          at least 3 of 8

Monmouth          4

Texas A&M          likely 4 of 6

 Texas State 9 of 10

TCU 8 of 8

Great topic.  These numbers on par with what I've learned and heard.  Roughly 70% give or take.  

A buddy and I very much disagreed on how many would return, but I "won" by surmising the majority would.  He is logical and looked at it with reason and thought a 20% return rate would be on the high end of things.  The logical move is to get on with your actual career and life. Me, the cynic, thinks that an alarmingly high percentage of players and parents have delusions of playing pro ball despite the numbers/math.  This generation has been playing travel ball since age 8 and swinging $300+ bats since the same age. They've had high dollar private lessons and many have gotten on airplanes to play little league baseball.  Many were given more of everything before they reached puberty than former pros did their whole lives.  In my mind, this generation of players and parents will release their grip from the pro ball dream only when it's pried from their cold, dead fingers.  Incredibly hard to stop a train that is carrying that much time and money investment.  The optimist in me wants to believe that kids are coming back because they love the game and want just one more year to play it.  

I think a good question might be, how many returning  will have to pay their own way!

Who cares and why does that matter?

@old_school posted:

Who cares and why does that matter?

Well, assuming you are referring to TPM's question, I would think that anyone presented with the likelihood of having to pay more money than they did previously for an extra year of college they didn't necessarily plan on (in fact, expected to have money finally coming in instead of more going out) would care.  It would likely factor heavily into the decision for most, wouldn't it?

That doesn’t answer anything, why does it matter they paid, more or less? Why should it be the question?

@DanJ posted:

Great topic.  These numbers on par with what I've learned and heard.  Roughly 70% give or take.  

A buddy and I very much disagreed on how many would return, but I "won" by surmising the majority would.  He is logical and looked at it with reason and thought a 20% return rate would be on the high end of things.  The logical move is to get on with your actual career and life. Me, the cynic, thinks that an alarmingly high percentage of players and parents have delusions of playing pro ball despite the numbers/math.  This generation has been playing travel ball since age 8 and swinging $300+ bats since the same age. They've had high dollar private lessons and many have gotten on airplanes to play little league baseball.  Many were given more of everything before they reached puberty than former pros did their whole lives.  In my mind, this generation of players and parents will release their grip from the pro ball dream only when it's pried from their cold, dead fingers.  Incredibly hard to stop a train that is carrying that much time and money investment.  The optimist in me wants to believe that kids are coming back because they love the game and want just one more year to play it.  

There certainly is some truth here, but I also think the pragmatic thing to do right now is stay in school.  Most baseball players at most D1 schools do not graduate in 4 years.  Even if they did graduate, the job market is not great for new hires at 14% unemployment and an economy propped up by a seemingly endless supply of stimulus checks.  The best thing to do in most circumstances is to stay in school, finish undergrad or begin working on a grad degree.

@Pedaldad posted:

There certainly is some truth here, but I also think the pragmatic thing to do right now is stay in school.  Most baseball players at most D1 schools do not graduate in 4 years.  Even if they did graduate, the job market is not great for new hires at 14% unemployment and an economy propped up by a seemingly endless supply of stimulus checks.  The best thing to do in most circumstances is to stay in school, finish undergrad or begin working on a grad degree.

Are you attempting to argue that there is more involved in the decision then the cost of the school year and how much you are now paying for it? Are you also saying that it possible to go to school like vast majority of the kids who only love sport and actually have to pay tuition to attend and more to actually play...this line of thought stuns me!!

There are lots of reasons why people drive different cars, go to different schools and join different types of clubs. The simple mindedness I read on here can be amazing at times.

Iowa had six seniors. As of now, four are coming back.

@TPM posted:

I think a good question might be, how many returning  will have to pay their own way!

 

Bingo.  Given the uncertainty of anything in this world right now, I just don't understand why anyone would roll the dice on trying to play another year at 21-22 years old on their dime.   Nothing is a given for next Spring.  Why go through this when you could be bringing money in rather than paying to play college baseball.   I loved being in college and being a college athlete 100 years ago, but I couldn't wait to get out, make some money and start my life.  I just don't understand this need to try to play another year in a risky environment.  What am I missing here?

What I do understand are people returning to get their graduate degrees or play baseball on somebody else's dime.  That makes total sense.

I have a senior (who graduated), and he is going back to play.   He and the other returning seniors feel they need to finish their career on their terms.  Whether they get drafted or end their career in 2021, the choice is theirs. What is the harm of playing one more year?  Hopefully, there will be a 2021 season, and these kids can get the closure they deserve.  If not, they gave it one more try .  I really don't feel we should judge anyone on the decision that they make-- it is their life.

I believe my son's D3 team has 2 seniors returning...and that's a whole lotta dimes

It appears that seniors are returning at about a 70% rate, as someone else mentioned in a previous post. It also seems like coaches are finding money for most of these seniors, often at the expense of incoming freshman recruits. Is that ethical? I would argue that it’s not. But I stated months ago (and some disagreed) that coaches of competitive programs were going to do this. They are going to take a proven performer that they can trust (for another year) over an incoming unproven freshman 100 times out of 100. So I’m gonna assume that most seniors are returning because they are getting money, haven’t yet graduated, and know they are gonna be on the field. They want to finish what they started AND they aren’t yet qualified to enter the work world. I’m the same as Fenway in that I was ready to be done by the end of my senior year 100 years ago, but times are different now. I was walking into a great job market and had a job waiting for me when I graduated. Times are a little different now. 

Curious to know how many seniors are coming back to play baseball at D3 high-academic colleges vs moving on with their lives since they aren't getting athletic scholarships to begin with and many play at small liberal arts colleges that don't have graduate school programs to enable them to stick around a 5th year and get a masters degree.

There's been postings of the D1 transfer portal list but has anyone seen the D3 transfer portal list? Would be interesting to see how many D3 players are looking to transfer, I suspect not nearly as many.

@Zoom 2020 posted:

Curious to know how many seniors are coming back to play baseball at D3 high-academic colleges vs moving on with their lives since they aren't getting athletic scholarships to begin with and many play at small liberal arts colleges that don't have graduate school programs to enable them to stick around a 5th year and get a masters degree.

There's been postings of the D1 transfer portal list but has anyone seen the D3 transfer portal list? Would be interesting to see how many D3 players are looking to transfer, I suspect not nearly as many.

At my sons HA D3, 1 Sr has confirmed he is coming back.  He was injured last year and is two classes short of a double major.  Interestingly, several of the Jr's & Soph are talking about taking a semester off (this fall since its online) and going to school 4.5 yrs.  They get to play an extra semester and not go to school online (hopefully).  Kinda makes sense.

So are the seniors with 30k to plunk down or borrow potentially on top of current student debt coming back for a 8th year at age 25 when spring 2021 is cancelled or runs for about 20 games?

Its not going to be with subsidized loans, because those only run for 4 years.

I reckon we will find out. And find out which coaches will ruin their program near future doing so when 2 recruiting classes bail.

@SoCal OG posted:

At my sons HA D3, 1 Sr has confirmed he is coming back.  He was injured last year and is two classes short of a double major.  Interestingly, several of the Jr's & Soph are talking about taking a semester off (this fall since its online) and going to school 4.5 yrs.  They get to play an extra semester and not go to school online (hopefully).  Kinda makes sense.

The semester off seemed like a possibility in discussions with our kid until he started factoring in the fact that he didn't have a good job, internship or other activity for the fall, and he wants to be done with undergrad and get on with his career (or grad school, depending on how things shake out) plus I think he felt he'd be kind of bailing on the team.  So he decided to make the the best of of a bad situation and stay in school for the whole  year. 

What I didn't know until after we had this conversation is how financial aid is treated. We were told that the family's expected family contribution (EFC) for the academic year would remain the same regardless of how many semesters a student attended.   Uh oh!  Assume 50% aid at a school where the cost of attendance (COA)  is $70K.  If your son takes the semester off, your EFC for this year is the full COA - $35K.  And it's likely to be another $35K next year.  So you're not only giving up a year of the kid's earning potential, you're forfeiting at least $35K in mom and dad's money.  Hope the kid enjoys himself!

@fenwaysouth posted:

Bingo.  Given the uncertainty of anything in this world right now, I just don't understand why anyone would roll the dice on trying to play another year at 21-22 years old on their dime.   Nothing is a given for next Spring.  Why go through this when you could be bringing money in rather than paying to play college baseball.   I loved being in college and being a college athlete 100 years ago, but I couldn't wait to get out, make some money and start my life.  I just don't understand this need to try to play another year in a risky environment.  What am I missing here?

What I do understand are people returning to get their graduate degrees or play baseball on somebody else's dime.  That makes total sense.

I guess it is all relative, what would you give to be a kid and play baseball for another? I figure they have the rest of their lives to work and build a career....I would give a whole lot for that year again, I think most would