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We have a local college summer league by us. It's not the Cape. It's not Northwoods. It's not Costal Plain.

In fact, if you look at the rosters over the past few seasons, most kids are D3 or Juco. Some D2s. And, some lower level D1s.  But most of the kids are not D1.

They will let recent HS graduates (rising college freshman) play in the league the summer after HS graduation and before the kid heads to college for the first time in the fall.

BUT, they will only accept the rising freshman if he's playing D1 or he's been recommended by a major league scout.

Is that the craziest thing ever? For a summer league where most of the players are not D1...and the majority are D3 and Juco?

Taking it a step further, the kid going to perennial powerhouse D2 Tampa or Colorado Mesa, can't get into the league without a recommendation from a major league scout. But, the kid playing D1 at lowly St. Peter's or FDU after HS can play in the league just because he wants to play.

The league has been in existence since 1966. So, it's not like they are new to this...

This make sense to anyone?

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Just seems like a bad rule to me.

"Yeah, our league is 90% D3 and Juco players. If you want to play as a rising freshman, you can play with us if you're heading to a 290th nationally ranked D1. But, if you're heading to a Top Ten nationally ranked D2, sorry, you need the reference of a major league scout."

Just seems ignorant and/or stupid to me.

@Francis7 posted:

Just seems like a bad rule to me.

"Yeah, our league is 90% D3 and Juco players. If you want to play as a rising freshman, you can play with us if you're heading to a 290th nationally ranked D1. But, if you're heading to a Top Ten nationally ranked D2, sorry, you need the reference of a major league scout."

Just seems ignorant and/or stupid to me.

Try not to be discouraged. Many other leagues have rules surrounding rising freshman as well. Some limit the number of rising freshmen, for example.

The kids going to the Top 5 D2s who are not invited to play in the league are either

A. Not from the area. B. Heading to campus to get bigger, stronger, and acclimated to college life. Because that is more important than hanging around and playing in a local league just for the hell of it. C. Already above this league - talent wise

Tampa, Mesa, and the like are the exception, not the rule. Well over half of Tampa's roster is either a D1 dropdown or a JC stud transferring in. Tampa gets used as an example quite a bit on this board. Tampa is a mid level ACC school playing D2. They are not a good example for anything other than to prove just because you don't play D1 doesn't mean you don't have talent.

There is also a significant drop-off once you leave the D2 CWS realm. The teams closer to 25 are not going to run away with every D1 conference. I have seen a ranked D2 play quite a bit as former teammate of '19 plays for them. He's a good player, and they're a good team, I enjoy watching them play when they're in the area. But if you put them in any D1 conference local to the area they put will put up similar results to the "lowly" teams you mentioned.

Also don't listen to garbage you hear. I can assure you nobody involved with Major League Baseball goes anywhere near this league. I can also assure you that this league is based 90% on coaching placement and 10% on filling out rosters. If the D2 powers feel they are not getting enough representation in this random league, the HC of Tampa should sit down and have dinner with league director.

I can also assure you that any D1 player in this league is likely going to be battling for a final roster spot in the fall or has a very unique reason for being there (like one of the kids from our school whose father has stage 4 cancer and wants to be as close to home as possible).  

@Francis7 posted:

Just seems like a bad rule to me.

"Yeah, our league is 90% D3 and Juco players. If you want to play as a rising freshman, you can play with us if you're heading to a 290th nationally ranked D1. But, if you're heading to a Top Ten nationally ranked D2, sorry, you need the reference of a major league scout."

Just seems ignorant and/or stupid to me.

If a kid is headed to a ranked D2 he should be able to get a recommendation through his coach.

Francis is discussing the Atlantic League. My son asked his P5 coach to place him with a team in Northern NJ so he could do an internship in NYC. His coach flipped out on him for wanting to play in the league.

Then, the coach asked my son a stupid question given he was headed into his senior year. “What’s more important? Becoming a better baseball player or the internship?”

His post season surgery solved the problem? The internship led to the job he had his first five years out of college.

Last edited by RJM

Francis7, with respect, I like most of your posts, but right now you seem really to be trying to create separation between (unworthy) D3 and (worthy) D2 baseball players.  It's not worth your time.  There's a big range of players in D3, and in D2, and in NAIA.  The players that I know from HS who went to D2s and became benchwarmers were about the same level as the ones who went to D3s and started.  The truth is that most people who are not in the business or athlete parents don't know the difference.   Have your son focus on creating good relationships with as many people in baseball as possible, that's what will matter.

Francis, as you know, most of the top established summer leagues don't allow rising freshmen except maybe early season short term contracts.  Most of the next tier of summer leagues aspire to be one of those "top established" leagues.  So in many ways, it seems logical to me (as opposed to "the craziest thing ever") that these next tier leagues would have some guidelines for qualifying/allowing rising freshmen.  I would, in fact, EXPECT the qualification to be that a player is either recruited to a higher level or comes with a referral.  Generally, there is a difference between an experienced returning college player, even from a non-D1, and a rising freshman without a single day of college playing experience.  What you describe doesn't sound unreasonable to me at all.

It seems to me that you are sort of implying that an incoming freshman to a lower level college program should be considered on par with a player who has already successfully navigated at least one year of a program at that level.  There are certainly exceptions but I categorically disagree.

I suspect that most of those players recruited to the best D2's probably won't have difficulty getting that referral or, at least, a referral that would be accepted.  A local scout would most likely be familiar with such a player.

Lastly, summer leagues do pride themselves on number of D1 players.  It adds credibility and marketability.  Sure, there are weak D1 programs and P5 guys add more clout than mid-major, for example, but still, a D1 player is a feather, warranted or not.

Last edited by cabbagedad

The Valley League started last summer allowing 2 graduated high school seniors. The players are required to be verifiable draft prospects, and approved by the league commissioner. We actually only had 3-4 in the league but our team had 2, one pitcher and one position player. Both were good looking players, committed to Major D-1's (SEC and Big 10), with D-1 coaches verifying draftability, both with high national rankings. Both were good kids. The position player looked like a beast and had a ton of power...but he had not faced the consistent level of pitching that he saw and struggled at the plate all summer long.   The pitcher had a live arm, good control, low to mid-90's fastball, and had some good outings but he seemed to have a case of homesickness, had some occasional difficulty with adversity on the mound, and bugged out on us at the end of the season before the playoffs, costing himself a championship ring.  My take: No matter how many showcases and elite tournaments a high schooler may have played in, a good summer league, living away from home for 2 months, with tons of comparable talent around, is different. These were good guys that worked hard, but it was a huge step and they struggled.     As for our team, we won't experiment with this again. Lesson learned.  Until Bryce Harper III comes around. (Harper in the same situation destroyed a summer league and I believe was the league MVP.  Truly "elite talent" might be an exception.)

Let me nicely say, and I will include my own sons in this for you.  Most incoming freshman going any level are not ready for that level ball right out of HS.  That is the benefit of fall ball.  So an incoming D1 player is probably not ready to step on a D1 field and compete right away.  So to have them play that summer with players that are currently playing a level below makes sense to me.  In the old days, there was a distinct difference between the levels but I would say that has somewhat gone away in the past couple of years.  Kids that could be playing a certain level if they were patient are no longer waiting.   They are playing down 1, 2, or 3 levels.  I know a kid who was at a P5 last year and is now at an NAIA because he just was not willing to wait his turn.  The NAIA guaranteed him to play 2-ways where the P5 said you are a pitcher who might get to swing a bat.

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