How can anyone say that Georgia dominated this year when they went 45-25-1 in regular season. The fact is regardless of who won last nite the champion would have had more losses than any team to win in the history of the CWS, not that Fresno state cares.
As for the layoff---it should have worked to their advantage as they had a rested pitching staff and the Fresno came into the final beat to a pulp
I think it was two evenly matched teams playing and the Fresno kids just were on a roll and wanted it more
Fireworks are fun! (As long as no one takes it personally 
).
Never heard of Fresno before? Augie Garrido played and coached there. His number is retired and hanging on the outfield wall.
Georgia was the best team I saw in person this year...at the time I saw them. And yes, I most definitely have a West bias, but that impression is not hard for me to admit.
Georgia was better than ASU, Fullerton, Texas, Nebraska, Cal, Arizona, Florida State, Miami and yes, Stanford (see our coaches comments after our 2nd game...he said the same). I never saw Fresno in person...but they obviously were the very best team at the end of the year!
West Coast college baseball deserves better respect from the NCAA when they select and seed the field...that is the only thing I am saying. We're used to it, it happens every year...but we have all been robbed of seeing some really good players on a national stage during college because of it (most recent prime example was Tim Lincecum from U. Washington).
Everyone talks of Fresno being the biggest upset ever...not IMO. They were an upset winner, yes, but not the biggest and the perception is only there because they were under-seeded to begin with. Seriously, can anyone say (with a straight face) that they were at the same level as nearly all of the other 4-seeds? IMO, they embarrassed the work of the NCAA selection/seeding.
I think this stuff is fun to debate. Just 2 nights ago I sat at a BlackJack table in Reno and debated SE football vs. West Coast football with an LSU alum. Fun stuff!
).Never heard of Fresno before? Augie Garrido played and coached there. His number is retired and hanging on the outfield wall.
Georgia was the best team I saw in person this year...at the time I saw them. And yes, I most definitely have a West bias, but that impression is not hard for me to admit.
Georgia was better than ASU, Fullerton, Texas, Nebraska, Cal, Arizona, Florida State, Miami and yes, Stanford (see our coaches comments after our 2nd game...he said the same). I never saw Fresno in person...but they obviously were the very best team at the end of the year!
West Coast college baseball deserves better respect from the NCAA when they select and seed the field...that is the only thing I am saying. We're used to it, it happens every year...but we have all been robbed of seeing some really good players on a national stage during college because of it (most recent prime example was Tim Lincecum from U. Washington).
Everyone talks of Fresno being the biggest upset ever...not IMO. They were an upset winner, yes, but not the biggest and the perception is only there because they were under-seeded to begin with. Seriously, can anyone say (with a straight face) that they were at the same level as nearly all of the other 4-seeds? IMO, they embarrassed the work of the NCAA selection/seeding.
I think this stuff is fun to debate. Just 2 nights ago I sat at a BlackJack table in Reno and debated SE football vs. West Coast football with an LSU alum. Fun stuff!
lafmom,
I actually don't see this as a West-East issue.
Certainly, I don't think many West Coasters are going to try and run down UNC, Miami, Florida St. LSU, etc. I don't think any East coasters will run down Fullerton, ASU, U of A, Stanford, etc.
As I posted before, my view is there is parity in college ball that is being missed in the NCAA selection process so that the 6-9 teams in the SEC...as an illustration only, are being chosen over the 2-4 seeds in the WCC and Big West on this side of the US, the Missouri Valley and MAC in the more Central locations, and the Big South and Southern Conference in the...well, the South.
There is little doubt in my mind the 8 teams in Omaha were very, very, very good. The quality of the play and closeness of the games is clear evidence.
I am not convinced, and in fact have strong feelings the bottom tier teams in the power conferences get too much at the expense of better teams in the non power conferences.
That is where I think CD is precisely correct. Teams in conferences like the WAC(Fresno St) have to win their tournament or they are not going to post season play, at the expense of the #9 or even #10 in the SEC.
I actually don't see this as a West-East issue.
Certainly, I don't think many West Coasters are going to try and run down UNC, Miami, Florida St. LSU, etc. I don't think any East coasters will run down Fullerton, ASU, U of A, Stanford, etc.
As I posted before, my view is there is parity in college ball that is being missed in the NCAA selection process so that the 6-9 teams in the SEC...as an illustration only, are being chosen over the 2-4 seeds in the WCC and Big West on this side of the US, the Missouri Valley and MAC in the more Central locations, and the Big South and Southern Conference in the...well, the South.
There is little doubt in my mind the 8 teams in Omaha were very, very, very good. The quality of the play and closeness of the games is clear evidence.
I am not convinced, and in fact have strong feelings the bottom tier teams in the power conferences get too much at the expense of better teams in the non power conferences.
That is where I think CD is precisely correct. Teams in conferences like the WAC(Fresno St) have to win their tournament or they are not going to post season play, at the expense of the #9 or even #10 in the SEC.
quote:Originally posted by justbaseball:
Fireworks are fun! (As long as no one takes it personally
Never heard of Fresno before? Augie Garrido played and coached there. His number is retired and hanging on the outfield wall.
I think this stuff is fun to debate. Just 2 nights ago I sat at a BlackJack table in Reno and debated SE football vs. West Coast football with an LSU alum. Fun stuff!
I saw Garrido in the stands and I think they even interviewed him. Even though I'm well aware of his career, I had no idea he went to Fresno State until watching the games. As I said, FSU was a no name school for me. That might well be my ignorance, but it is what it is.
I can truly support any football team anywhere! So, those conversations wouldn't get me riled.
Now, when you go to putting basketball into the equation..... wanna see some fireworks!!! Step back!!
Moc1 said:
________________________________________________________
Moc1 maybe your point is correct but in the given three game matchup we all just watched, Georgia was overmatched...squeaked by in the first game on a fluke bounce of the ball off the second base bag to go ahead.
The dominating teams are from the west...just look at the record. USC has won the most CWS and second isn't even close.
http://thesundevils.cstv.com/sports/m-basebl/spec-rel/061202aaa.html
I don't disrespect the Georgia team, no doubt they have some very good ballplayers, it's just their frame of reference to competition is parochial in comparison to the overall competition the California teams go through just to get to the regionals.
JMO
quote:Don't really care one way or another-a bulldog is a bulldog- but my experience is that getting skunked means being shutout. Could be wrong. At any rate, I don't necessarily agree that a great team can't get beaten by a large margin every now and then. 12-4, 15-1, 11-1, 14-4. FSU-West scores this year. They're still a pretty darn good team IMO.
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Moc1 maybe your point is correct but in the given three game matchup we all just watched, Georgia was overmatched...squeaked by in the first game on a fluke bounce of the ball off the second base bag to go ahead.
The dominating teams are from the west...just look at the record. USC has won the most CWS and second isn't even close.
http://thesundevils.cstv.com/sports/m-basebl/spec-rel/061202aaa.html
I don't disrespect the Georgia team, no doubt they have some very good ballplayers, it's just their frame of reference to competition is parochial in comparison to the overall competition the California teams go through just to get to the regionals.
JMO
quote:Certainly, I don't think many West Coasters are going to try and run down UNC, Miami, Florida St. LSU, etc.
Good thing I said "many" so I could give LL some room to wedge in with his view.
quote:Originally posted by justbaseball:
Dad04 - I think their coach (Rex Peters) has really done a very nice job. He is well respected by HS coaches in Northern California and has recruited players that other schools may have overlooked...and coached them into better players.
UC Davis is a good academic school in a tough conference. Nice college town. Decent facilities. Pretty committed following (at least when they play Stanford!
I have no idea how committed he is long-term to that program...and I would call them a "mid-major" for now. If I were a "major," he's a guy I'd sure be interested in interviewing. But I hope he stays...he's done a nice job.
jbb I remember listening to Coach Peters on the pregame in Hawaii. It was Jr's 2nd college start and 1st win, so the game was memorable. He was very humble, just hoping to compete with a young club. I later found out he was successful as soon as he got there, and still is. He just competes. I expect he will continue, there or elsewhere. I'm sure he will get opportunities to consider. They had 9 draft picks this year.
quote:Now, when you go to putting basketball into the equation..... wanna see some fireworks!!! Step back!!
Are you inviting me to give my opinion of UK basketball?
Dad04 - He recruited my son a little in the beginning. At the time they were D2 and transitioning and given who else was recruiting him he wasn't too interested.
But he told me that Coach Peters was one of the warmest, kindest coaches he talked too. When our son told him that they weren't in the mix, Coach Peters talked to him for around 20 minutes on who was and about how they were such great choices. Really classy IMO.
Our younger son's HS coach thinks very highly of Coach Peters and I think his approach to the local kids has reaped him lots of success and a bright future.
But he told me that Coach Peters was one of the warmest, kindest coaches he talked too. When our son told him that they weren't in the mix, Coach Peters talked to him for around 20 minutes on who was and about how they were such great choices. Really classy IMO.
Our younger son's HS coach thinks very highly of Coach Peters and I think his approach to the local kids has reaped him lots of success and a bright future.
quote:Originally posted by infielddad:quote:Originally posted by TPM:
. The 5 day lay off hurt them.
Since Georgia won game 1, in very dramatic fashion, I don't understand how those days off play into the result. Your thoughts??
From 6/14-6/21 they played 3 games. Stanford almost put them away. First game against Fresno, they almost lost, they certainly didn't look "refreshed". You lose momentum, you lose the edge, you lose the adrenaline.
This is often something I've seen that happens to teams during exam week, late spring, takes a while to get back up and running, practice against your team mates doesn't always work.
JMO and observation.
Infieldad said:
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IMO it just seems to me that West Coast schools never get any respect...even after such an outstanding performance by our boys from Fresno they are called "Cinderella" as though teams from California are someway inferior because they don't have that East Coast or SEC "pedigree".
I get tired of it and it isn't just with our college teams but our MLB pros and high school teams also. Then the East Coast and SEC bias by the NCAA is so evident and really overt with the sports media...they've never heard of De La Salle. A private high school out here that would kick the stuffing out of their best.
Most the teams they hold so dear are second level teams out here.
JMO
quote:Good thing I said "many" so I could give LL some room to wedge in with his view.
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IMO it just seems to me that West Coast schools never get any respect...even after such an outstanding performance by our boys from Fresno they are called "Cinderella" as though teams from California are someway inferior because they don't have that East Coast or SEC "pedigree".
I get tired of it and it isn't just with our college teams but our MLB pros and high school teams also. Then the East Coast and SEC bias by the NCAA is so evident and really overt with the sports media...they've never heard of De La Salle. A private high school out here that would kick the stuffing out of their best.
Most the teams they hold so dear are second level teams out here.
JMO
quote:Originally posted by justbaseball:quote:Now, when you go to putting basketball into the equation..... wanna see some fireworks!!! Step back!!
Are you inviting me to give my opinion of UK basketball?
Nooooo, Bearcat man!! I think I already know!!
LL it seems you have a serious chip on your shoulder. All I have seen is everyone here giving Fresno State the props they deserve. The announcers make me sick with the "Glass Slipper" comments. But they think that stuff sells. They were the best team in Omaha. They earned their way to the event and then proved they were the best. West coast bias? The people that truly follow the sport and the players already know that there is great baseball from coast to coast. Its not about conference or west vs east. Its about team vs team. And Fresno proved they were the best team in the nation. And they did it on the field which is the only place that matters.
I believe we should halt all arguement's about the best conf. best coast best whatever.
It serve's no purpose on the HSBBW.
Great play all over the country.
I do believe that more teams need to get into the tournament.
My suggestion is to have Sub-Regionals.
16 site's, 8 teams.
Top 4 teams in each sub regional gets reseeded.
And placed in the Regionals.
That way there would be more team's that would have a chance.
And less arguement's about who deserve's what.
JMO
EH
It serve's no purpose on the HSBBW.
Great play all over the country.
I do believe that more teams need to get into the tournament.
My suggestion is to have Sub-Regionals.
16 site's, 8 teams.
Top 4 teams in each sub regional gets reseeded.
And placed in the Regionals.
That way there would be more team's that would have a chance.
And less arguement's about who deserve's what.
JMO
EH
Not to continue the debate but...
Surely everyone was surprised that Fresno State became the national champion. I doubt if a month ago anyone outside of Fresno would have picked Fresno State to win it all. Therefore they certainly were a Cinderella team. This is not to say they didn’t deserve to win because they did.
They were 21-25 in 46 of their “regular season” games this year against the following teams.
Portland (1-1)
UC Davis (2-2)
Indiana (2-1)
Santa Clara (0-2)
San Francisco (0-2)
San Diego (0-1)
New Mexico State (6-3)
Cal Poly (2-3)
Cal (0-2)
Nevada (4-4)
Sacramento State (2-2)
Hawaii (2-2)
Not that the above teams aren’t great competition, but who would have thought National Championship at the end of the regular season? Interesting that they beat 4 of those teams in the playoffs. Three to win their conference tournament to make the NCAA field. Fresno State does have a lot of talent but this really is a great Cinderella story IMO. In fact, it was a big Cinderella Story just making it to Omaha. There’s nothing wrong with being a Cinderella Story, those are the things that make sports great. It was fun to watch and they sure did earn it. What a TEAM! What a run!
Regarding someone not being a great team if they lose 19-10… This year the National Champion Fresno State team lost to San Diego 15-1, lost to New Mexico State 9-2, lost to Indiana 11-1, and lost to Cal 14-4. Its baseball and that stuff happens.
All that said, it does seem like the NCAA slights the west coast teams. Maybe they should look at the results over the past several years.
Surely everyone was surprised that Fresno State became the national champion. I doubt if a month ago anyone outside of Fresno would have picked Fresno State to win it all. Therefore they certainly were a Cinderella team. This is not to say they didn’t deserve to win because they did.
They were 21-25 in 46 of their “regular season” games this year against the following teams.
Portland (1-1)
UC Davis (2-2)
Indiana (2-1)
Santa Clara (0-2)
San Francisco (0-2)
San Diego (0-1)
New Mexico State (6-3)
Cal Poly (2-3)
Cal (0-2)
Nevada (4-4)
Sacramento State (2-2)
Hawaii (2-2)
Not that the above teams aren’t great competition, but who would have thought National Championship at the end of the regular season? Interesting that they beat 4 of those teams in the playoffs. Three to win their conference tournament to make the NCAA field. Fresno State does have a lot of talent but this really is a great Cinderella story IMO. In fact, it was a big Cinderella Story just making it to Omaha. There’s nothing wrong with being a Cinderella Story, those are the things that make sports great. It was fun to watch and they sure did earn it. What a TEAM! What a run!
Regarding someone not being a great team if they lose 19-10… This year the National Champion Fresno State team lost to San Diego 15-1, lost to New Mexico State 9-2, lost to Indiana 11-1, and lost to Cal 14-4. Its baseball and that stuff happens.
All that said, it does seem like the NCAA slights the west coast teams. Maybe they should look at the results over the past several years.
Coach May said:
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I guess it comes across that way but it just bothers me that we out here on the West Coacst have to listen to the sports casters insulting our boys and then they seem to think it's humorous. The Fresno "****mond Dogs" to a man said they didn't agree with that interpretation of their season.
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PGStaff said: Surely everyone was surprised that Fresno State became the national champion. I doubt if a month ago anyone outside of Fresno would have picked Fresno State to win it all. Therefore they certainly were a Cinderella team. This is not to say they didn’t deserve to win because they did.
_______________________________________________________
IMHO not everyone and certainly not the Fresno State Bulldogs. They knew that they could compete against anyone...especially after b eating the best of the PAC10 could offer. Let's face ASU was a 4 to 1 favorite to eliminate the Bulldogs.
All the record shows as you have presented for the FS Bulldogs is how tough it is to run the slate in the WCC the WAC and the PAC10. It is meaningless to conjecture that it means that the FS Bulldogs should not have been respected for their talent and the tough tough tough conferences these teams play in.
Unless you play out here you just do not understand how competitive it is at every level. That is what is missed in all the ratings of the supposed guru's expert analysis.
What the hay, last year there were 175 players trying out for 35 spots at a prominent D2 school that almost went undefeated...so go figure that.
JMO
quote:LL it seems you have a serious chip on your shoulder.
_____________________________________________________
I guess it comes across that way but it just bothers me that we out here on the West Coacst have to listen to the sports casters insulting our boys and then they seem to think it's humorous. The Fresno "****mond Dogs" to a man said they didn't agree with that interpretation of their season.
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PGStaff said: Surely everyone was surprised that Fresno State became the national champion. I doubt if a month ago anyone outside of Fresno would have picked Fresno State to win it all. Therefore they certainly were a Cinderella team. This is not to say they didn’t deserve to win because they did.
_______________________________________________________
IMHO not everyone and certainly not the Fresno State Bulldogs. They knew that they could compete against anyone...especially after b eating the best of the PAC10 could offer. Let's face ASU was a 4 to 1 favorite to eliminate the Bulldogs.
All the record shows as you have presented for the FS Bulldogs is how tough it is to run the slate in the WCC the WAC and the PAC10. It is meaningless to conjecture that it means that the FS Bulldogs should not have been respected for their talent and the tough tough tough conferences these teams play in.
Unless you play out here you just do not understand how competitive it is at every level. That is what is missed in all the ratings of the supposed guru's expert analysis.
What the hay, last year there were 175 players trying out for 35 spots at a prominent D2 school that almost went undefeated...so go figure that.
JMO
quote:There’s nothing wrong with being a Cinderella Story,
Perhaps we could rename it to account for the gender of the team:
Futureback.Mom said: Perhaps we could rename it to account for the gender of the team: Cinderella
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The connotation of "Cinderella" is that FSU didn't earn it. They lucked out. I just donot agree with either the connotatin or the meaning it represents and think it is an insult to every coach and player of the Fresno State Bulldogs.
JMO
________________________________________________________
The connotation of "Cinderella" is that FSU didn't earn it. They lucked out. I just donot agree with either the connotatin or the meaning it represents and think it is an insult to every coach and player of the Fresno State Bulldogs.
JMO
LL,
Sometimes I think it is impossible to clearly state a point that others read clearly.
Regarding the connotation of “Cinderella” please look at the “Official” website of Fresno State.
Especially things like this….
WonderDogs Win!
06/22/2008 - For the Fresno State baseball team, most thought the team's magical run through the NCAA Tournament would end Sunday night at Johnny Rosenblatt Sta... [+]
Or this
Wonderdogs Takeout No. 2 Tar Heels
06/17/2008 - A run through the NCAA baseball tournament that most called improbable took the Fresno State baseball team one step closer to the national champion... [+]
Or especially this
No. 2 Tar Heels Edge Dogs
06/21/2008 - The Fresno State Bulldogs, the Cinderella story of this year's NCAA baseball tournament, went to the wire against the No. 2 team in the nation in a... [+]
Guess I can't understand what is so bad about being called a Cinderella Story. Evidently it doesn't bother the official site of Fresno state.
Sometimes I think it is impossible to clearly state a point that others read clearly.
Regarding the connotation of “Cinderella” please look at the “Official” website of Fresno State.
Especially things like this….
WonderDogs Win!
06/22/2008 - For the Fresno State baseball team, most thought the team's magical run through the NCAA Tournament would end Sunday night at Johnny Rosenblatt Sta... [+]
Or this
Wonderdogs Takeout No. 2 Tar Heels
06/17/2008 - A run through the NCAA baseball tournament that most called improbable took the Fresno State baseball team one step closer to the national champion... [+]
Or especially this
No. 2 Tar Heels Edge Dogs
06/21/2008 - The Fresno State Bulldogs, the Cinderella story of this year's NCAA baseball tournament, went to the wire against the No. 2 team in the nation in a... [+]
Guess I can't understand what is so bad about being called a Cinderella Story. Evidently it doesn't bother the official site of Fresno state.
Maybe it kind of rubs LL the wrong way because of all the 'glass slipper' and 'pumpkin' fodder we had to listen to from the dumb and dumber commentators.
Maybe the simplest parallel between Cinderella and Fresno State is that good things happen to good people. Cinderella was thrown into an adverse situation in her life. Through her own perserverance and desire she attained her goal to be loved and be happy.
The Bulldogs were thrown into an adverse situation of losing games and their best pitcher early in the year. Through their perserverance and desire to bounce back and find a way to win, they attained their goals one at a time - the ultimate one in a National Championship.
Anyone that wants to come out West and watch some baseball for any amount of time will see the game is played at the highest level. I think that is what some of us are trying to say.
Maybe the simplest parallel between Cinderella and Fresno State is that good things happen to good people. Cinderella was thrown into an adverse situation in her life. Through her own perserverance and desire she attained her goal to be loved and be happy.
The Bulldogs were thrown into an adverse situation of losing games and their best pitcher early in the year. Through their perserverance and desire to bounce back and find a way to win, they attained their goals one at a time - the ultimate one in a National Championship.
Anyone that wants to come out West and watch some baseball for any amount of time will see the game is played at the highest level. I think that is what some of us are trying to say.