Here's something that I think is interesting. During the Regionals, there were 15 games played between the West (CA and AZ, this year) and RUSA (rest of the USA). Those games took place in 5 Regionals. The West teams were Arizona, Fullerton, UCLA, Stanford, Pepperdine, UC Irvine, and Arizona State. RUSA teams were Eastern Michigan, Michigan, Kentucky, Rider, Virginia, Arkansas, **** Roberts, Nebraska, Stony Brook, Vanderbilt, and Oklahoma. The other 5 West teams (UC Davis, Long Beach, Fresno State, San Diego, and California) didn't play a RUSA team during the Regionals.
The record of those 15 games was : West 15, RUSA 0
I don't think this tells us much about the relative strength of the top teams across the country, but it does show, IMO, that the second tier teams (with respect to this tournament) aren't in the West. Instead they are from RUSA. Clearly RUSA has quite a few relatively weak conferences which get automatic berths.
So one aspect of the "bias" against West teams is mainly structural in nature. As long as we have automatic berths for conference champions, some weak teams will make the tournament at the expense of stronger teams. I don't expect that to change.
quote:The connotation of "Cinderella" is that FSU didn't earn it. They lucked out.
ll, please do not try to re-write both history AND fairy tails
The connotation of "Cinderella" is that they were an unexpected or surprise candidate for the Crown
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
Guess I can't understand what is so bad about being called a Cinderella Story. Evidently it doesn't bother the official site of Fresno state.
Me neither! FS won! They were the best ball team - it's not an insult to refer to them as "Cinderella". They got that connection simply because they were considered the underdog by many.... smaller school, smaller budget I assume, less well known. They got the job done that many other schools couldn't and they demonstrated teammwork, dedication, commitment, skills.... things they obviously have had that many just didn't realize the power and strength of prior to us all watching them. It's a compliment, not an insult.
I agree, let's not get into the east/west debate.
Until you have watched college baseball regularly from both sides, it's hard to draw conclusions.
Cinderella, Cinderfella, who really cares (though I get the point why MA pointed that out
). Fresno State winning the way they did (not expected by probables given to take the championship) is GREAT FOR COLLEGE BASEBALL, no matter where you are from.
It was stated by someone recently that I don't know much about baseball, but this I do know about the game, when you're HOT, you're HOT. It's not how you start, but how you end, and as always, the hottest team in Omaha got it done.
Until you have watched college baseball regularly from both sides, it's hard to draw conclusions.
Cinderella, Cinderfella, who really cares (though I get the point why MA pointed that out
). Fresno State winning the way they did (not expected by probables given to take the championship) is GREAT FOR COLLEGE BASEBALL, no matter where you are from.It was stated by someone recently that I don't know much about baseball, but this I do know about the game, when you're HOT, you're HOT. It's not how you start, but how you end, and as always, the hottest team in Omaha got it done.
To my good (hopefully?) friends in the East on the hsbaseballweb. The debate is not with you about whether or not the West gets slighted. Don't take it that way.
Said best by one of our most expert posters:
Read infielddad's summary too. Fresno is a Cinderella story because of the start to the season they had and the adversity they faced...NOT because they were a correctly seeded 4-seed...they most certainly were very poorly seeded. But I do understand LLorton's sentiments as well.
That is the debate...with the NCAA selection and seeding. Put SCU in instead of Arkansas and Oregon State instead of Oklahoma...and a few other similar "slights." Seed UC Davis 3rd and send them to UNC or Nebraska...give UCI a regional like they deserved rather than sending them across the country twice in order to get back to Omaha...seed Fresno 2 or 3 and send them to LSU or Georgia (rather than Long Beach State) and I think the debate largely goes away.
(BTW, I saw in the paper this morning that they were welcomed home to quite a parade...streets lined 2 hours before arriving). GREAT story!
Said best by one of our most expert posters:
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
All that said, it does seem like the NCAA slights the west coast teams. Maybe they should look at the results over the past several years.
Read infielddad's summary too. Fresno is a Cinderella story because of the start to the season they had and the adversity they faced...NOT because they were a correctly seeded 4-seed...they most certainly were very poorly seeded. But I do understand LLorton's sentiments as well.
That is the debate...with the NCAA selection and seeding. Put SCU in instead of Arkansas and Oregon State instead of Oklahoma...and a few other similar "slights." Seed UC Davis 3rd and send them to UNC or Nebraska...give UCI a regional like they deserved rather than sending them across the country twice in order to get back to Omaha...seed Fresno 2 or 3 and send them to LSU or Georgia (rather than Long Beach State) and I think the debate largely goes away.
(BTW, I saw in the paper this morning that they were welcomed home to quite a parade...streets lined 2 hours before arriving). GREAT story!
If you go to Youtube and search Fresno baseball, and filter by most recent posts, there are some great video of celebrations during and after the game...and at the park yesterday.
LL that is why it irked me so bad because they would not stop with the cinderella stuff. I am talking about the guys doing the broadcast. It was very clear from the first game they played they were legit. Heck I watched the games vs ASU and I saw all I needed to see. Yes its true no one outside of their team and loyal fans thought they had a chance. But once they started playing and everyone could see how talented they were and how great they were playing it should not have surprised anyone.
Its not like they had a bunch of scrubs on the field. They had a bunch of guys drafted and they had a bunch of very good players in that line up. It may indeed be that the NCAA needs to look at the way teams are selected. It may be that the west coast teams do not have enough teams in the tourney. If you look at the success of the west coast teams over the years they have certainly proved themsleves.
Were they underdogs coming in? Yes. Once they showed what they could do out there no one should have thought for one minute they were still underdogs. They beat the pants off people in Omaha. They gutted out some tough wins. And they simply outplayed everyone.
They started out poorly. But once they got it going they were very good. And they were the best team in the nation when it mattered the most.
Its not like they had a bunch of scrubs on the field. They had a bunch of guys drafted and they had a bunch of very good players in that line up. It may indeed be that the NCAA needs to look at the way teams are selected. It may be that the west coast teams do not have enough teams in the tourney. If you look at the success of the west coast teams over the years they have certainly proved themsleves.
Were they underdogs coming in? Yes. Once they showed what they could do out there no one should have thought for one minute they were still underdogs. They beat the pants off people in Omaha. They gutted out some tough wins. And they simply outplayed everyone.
They started out poorly. But once they got it going they were very good. And they were the best team in the nation when it mattered the most.
Plus their ace Tanner Scheppers was on the shelf.How tough is it to lose your #1 starter.
Don't really care about all the east/west, Cinderella stuff. What I take from this series was how much fun it was to watch these kids have so much fun playing ball. Listened to their coach today on Jim Rome. His final statement was something to the affect "By this point as coaches all we do is roll the balls out and let the 6th graders go crazy." Which, as coaches, is all you should have to do at that point. I just hope my high school players were watching.
Just so that everyone knows ( in case some didn't ) California State University Fresno's OWN baseball website labled them the " CINDERELLA wonder " baseball team.
It was written in big 2" headlines on their official baseball site.
Perhaps that has changed now,....but it was there.
Thats NOT how I interpreted it at all.
TPM's quote:
Exactly.
These are a great group of kids/athletes ( my 6 year old nephew has his baseball glove signed by every single one of them ) who battled hard. They didnt have an explaination for their sucess,...other than they played like a team.
No one guy,...but a joint effort,..and " they had fun out on the field!! "
It doesnt get better than that.
Chemistry? Talent? Gritty? Magical?
I'd have to say yes to all.
It was written in big 2" headlines on their official baseball site.
Perhaps that has changed now,....but it was there.
quote:The connotation of " Cinderella " is that FSU didn't earn it.
Thats NOT how I interpreted it at all.
TPM's quote:
quote:Cinderella, Cinderfella, who really cares (though I get the point why MA pointed that out ). Fresno State winning the way they did (not expected by probables given to take the championship) is GREAT FOR COLLEGE BASEBALL, no matter where you are from.
Exactly.
These are a great group of kids/athletes ( my 6 year old nephew has his baseball glove signed by every single one of them
) who battled hard. They didnt have an explaination for their sucess,...other than they played like a team.No one guy,...but a joint effort,..and " they had fun out on the field!! "
It doesnt get better than that.
Chemistry? Talent? Gritty? Magical?
I'd have to say yes to all.
quote:Cinderella
I think the term is being used as a team nobody expected to be there...much like Cinderella, herself. I do not find it derogatory at all...much like a darkhorse team. Would you rather be Cinderella or the ugly step sister?
quote:Would you rather be Cinderella or the ugly step sister?
I agree SSM.
I know that you have been there, Omaha is a magical place for all college baseball fans two weeks out of the year in June. Dreams come true there, even if you didn't win it all.
My idea is that Fresno had to beat out more top seeded teams to win. That's magical. That's awesome. No one said they weren't a very good team. I didn't hear the announcers say that and I didn't get the impression that they alluded to the fact that they didn't belong there. If they did, I missed it, as I did most of the chatter due to Mr. TPM's own running commentary.
That's my interpretation and I don't think it's meant to be derogatory toward anyone.
Fresno doesn't either.
JT,
Funny stuff.
I know that you have been there, Omaha is a magical place for all college baseball fans two weeks out of the year in June. Dreams come true there, even if you didn't win it all.
My idea is that Fresno had to beat out more top seeded teams to win. That's magical. That's awesome. No one said they weren't a very good team. I didn't hear the announcers say that and I didn't get the impression that they alluded to the fact that they didn't belong there. If they did, I missed it, as I did most of the chatter due to Mr. TPM's own running commentary.
That's my interpretation and I don't think it's meant to be derogatory toward anyone.
Fresno doesn't either.
JT,
Funny stuff.
TPM
Do you know the Fields kid personally?
Do you know the Fields kid personally?