We have had many discussions regarding early commits---look at all the football players decommitting with less than two weeks to go until signing day--I saw one kid who committed and decommitted to 4 different programs
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I'm sure its coming to baseball soon too.
Don't like it.
Don't like it.
No it's not
Yes it is
No it's not.
BOF 
I guess it doen't make sense to try and start and intelligent discussion
Well TR, you more than anyone on here knows that it takes intellect to have an intelligent discussion. doggone
why are some players so committed to uncommit? 
I think alot of it has to do with the fact that players are committing way too early. Here it is January 2010, and we are already reading and hearing about verbal commits from the class of 2012.
Way back when I was a military recruiter, our objective was to get an applicant to ship as soon as possible. We would cringe when we found out an enlistee was not leaving for boot camp for 8, 9 or 10 months out. Too many things can trip him up. Buddies, girls, drugs, trouble, injury, etc.
Whenever we enlisted an applicant, we always checked on them within 72 hours to re-assure them why they enlisted and to beat "buyer's remorse."
In addition to the other factors, we also had to fend off our competition, who were also trying to get Johnny to change his mind and go to them.
In the case of a high school senior, they can enlist the summer after their junior year. Since they cannot ship out without diploma in hand, you have to maintain contact and watch over them for the 9 to 10 months until they graduate and leave.
I use this as an example because I think it is the same with baseball recruiting. Players are committing to something a year or two down the road, and just too many things can happen to both the program and the prospect. Coaches leave, injuries, grades, loss of interest, girls and yes, they simply change their mind due to buyer's remorse. If we had to fight all of those issues with a HS senior, I can't imagine a kid going into his sophomore or junior year ready to make that sort of committment.
We want to treat them like men, they want to be treated like men. But in reality, they are still kids and need that guidance and re-assurance that they made the right decision. If, from the beginning it was.
JMHO for what it's worth.
Way back when I was a military recruiter, our objective was to get an applicant to ship as soon as possible. We would cringe when we found out an enlistee was not leaving for boot camp for 8, 9 or 10 months out. Too many things can trip him up. Buddies, girls, drugs, trouble, injury, etc.
Whenever we enlisted an applicant, we always checked on them within 72 hours to re-assure them why they enlisted and to beat "buyer's remorse."
In addition to the other factors, we also had to fend off our competition, who were also trying to get Johnny to change his mind and go to them.
In the case of a high school senior, they can enlist the summer after their junior year. Since they cannot ship out without diploma in hand, you have to maintain contact and watch over them for the 9 to 10 months until they graduate and leave.
I use this as an example because I think it is the same with baseball recruiting. Players are committing to something a year or two down the road, and just too many things can happen to both the program and the prospect. Coaches leave, injuries, grades, loss of interest, girls and yes, they simply change their mind due to buyer's remorse. If we had to fight all of those issues with a HS senior, I can't imagine a kid going into his sophomore or junior year ready to make that sort of committment.
We want to treat them like men, they want to be treated like men. But in reality, they are still kids and need that guidance and re-assurance that they made the right decision. If, from the beginning it was.
JMHO for what it's worth.
Is it possible it's more about the drama? I know of a few instances where a player is verbally committing to a school who has very little/no interest. For baseball - it's possible it is more about reading their name on the front page of CrossChecker or in the local paper.
GED10DaD
Well, if there were no offers, there would be no committments. Why are schools offering players earlier and earlier?
D`1
I find it amazing how well you think you know me when we never even met--
I find it amazing how well you think you know me when we never even met--
blackhawk
Great analogy
Thanx
Great analogy
Thanx
I'm not surprised about the huge number of decommits from the football players. These kids commit to the coach more than anything else, and with the college coaches playing a game of musical chairs this winter, the kids are bound to follow suit.
The early commits in baseball could have something to do with the money or lack of it. With so few scholarships available, when you hear that certain big name schools are already verbally committing money to kids who don't even graduate for 2 years, you have to wonder whether there will be any left for a kid who decides his senior year.
The early commits in baseball could have something to do with the money or lack of it. With so few scholarships available, when you hear that certain big name schools are already verbally committing money to kids who don't even graduate for 2 years, you have to wonder whether there will be any left for a kid who decides his senior year.
LHPMOM
therein lies the rub---colleges cannot committ money to players that early on in the process
There is money left in June of the senior year after the draft occurs and other kids have changed their minds
therein lies the rub---colleges cannot committ money to players that early on in the process
There is money left in June of the senior year after the draft occurs and other kids have changed their minds
They can't guarantee admission either... so if they can't name a specific percentage, then what exactly are the colleges committing before November senior year?
The colleges are NOT committing---it is the player/parents who are saying they have committed---in many instances the coaches doesn't even know the kid is saying this-- alot of "keeping up with the jones" here
IMO, one cannot even compare football recruiting to baseball recruiting. It's a whole different animal.
Our baseball players get moderate interest compared to football players, they have dozens and dozens and dozens of coaches trying to recruit them, and I am sure that many do make their decision based upon the coaches and his success and whether that team is a regular bowl contender or not. Remember that is their direct training into the NFL. It's not about the amount of scholarship, they all get the samew wherever they go. And it is much more difficult for the QB to make that decision, remember there is only one and his hopes are he will be it. JMO.
As far as baseball players commiting early to the top porgrams, many of these coaches have been doing it for a long time, they have formulas based upon who most likely will stay for 4 years or who will be gone in 3 barring injury. They also know who will most likely will never set foot on a college campus and who will not. But signing that player is good for business because just like football, that is what it is, just on a much smaller scale.
Our baseball players get moderate interest compared to football players, they have dozens and dozens and dozens of coaches trying to recruit them, and I am sure that many do make their decision based upon the coaches and his success and whether that team is a regular bowl contender or not. Remember that is their direct training into the NFL. It's not about the amount of scholarship, they all get the samew wherever they go. And it is much more difficult for the QB to make that decision, remember there is only one and his hopes are he will be it. JMO.
As far as baseball players commiting early to the top porgrams, many of these coaches have been doing it for a long time, they have formulas based upon who most likely will stay for 4 years or who will be gone in 3 barring injury. They also know who will most likely will never set foot on a college campus and who will not. But signing that player is good for business because just like football, that is what it is, just on a much smaller scale.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
The colleges are NOT committing---it is the player/parents who are saying they have committed---in many instances the coaches doesn't even know the kid is saying this-- alot of "keeping up with the jones" here
My intellect may limit me, but I’ll try.
First a number of the commit/de-commits you refer to were in football and just before the signing period. I believe most of the de-commits were due to coaching changes. (which were massive in the past month) In this case it makes perfect sense for a recruit to change since the coach he committed is now gone. How does this project to baseball?
You are now talking about early signings and de-committing afterward. This is part of the risk of committing early. The earlier you commit the higher the risk for the school and student-athlete. Pretty simple. Your point about the schools not committing anything is wrong since the school/coach had to make some sort of verbal commitment that the student-athlete committed to. I know D’Oh.
Frankly I think this is all a little silly, since if a coach leaves then I believe the student-athlete has the right to re-evaluate his position. He obviously committed to the school but he also committed to the coach.
To your point will this come to baseball. I think it already has, maybe not to the degree in football, but this year was pretty chaotic in football as far as coaching changes go. If baseball coaching becomes like the football merry-go-round then the commit/de-commit will follow. Wew that took it out of me. Time to hit the gym.
Have a great day HSBBW, the rain has stopped (finally) and it is beautiful outside!
First a number of the commit/de-commits you refer to were in football and just before the signing period. I believe most of the de-commits were due to coaching changes. (which were massive in the past month) In this case it makes perfect sense for a recruit to change since the coach he committed is now gone. How does this project to baseball?
You are now talking about early signings and de-committing afterward. This is part of the risk of committing early. The earlier you commit the higher the risk for the school and student-athlete. Pretty simple. Your point about the schools not committing anything is wrong since the school/coach had to make some sort of verbal commitment that the student-athlete committed to. I know D’Oh.
Frankly I think this is all a little silly, since if a coach leaves then I believe the student-athlete has the right to re-evaluate his position. He obviously committed to the school but he also committed to the coach.
To your point will this come to baseball. I think it already has, maybe not to the degree in football, but this year was pretty chaotic in football as far as coaching changes go. If baseball coaching becomes like the football merry-go-round then the commit/de-commit will follow. Wew that took it out of me. Time to hit the gym.
Have a great day HSBBW, the rain has stopped (finally) and it is beautiful outside!
If you have been watching baseball commitments over the last 5 years you have seen them get earlier and earlier by years. There are 2012 kids committed to college.
It is just too early. So many things change... dad might have more or less money to send the kid to school with, coaching changes, grades in relationship to acceptance to the school, etc.
The early verbal is non-binding and the earlier the verbal is the more likely the commitment will change. Early verbals are totally in favor of the school not the athlete.
There is one particular early verbal I am watching out here.. The kid was picked up by a big program as a rising sophomore. I was shocked at the time but then I realized that the kid locked himself at a school but the school really did not stop recruiting his position.
It is just too early. So many things change... dad might have more or less money to send the kid to school with, coaching changes, grades in relationship to acceptance to the school, etc.
The early verbal is non-binding and the earlier the verbal is the more likely the commitment will change. Early verbals are totally in favor of the school not the athlete.
There is one particular early verbal I am watching out here.. The kid was picked up by a big program as a rising sophomore. I was shocked at the time but then I realized that the kid locked himself at a school but the school really did not stop recruiting his position.
I think there may be a few misconceptions expressed in this thread-- or perhaps I misunderstand some posters. Anyway,
Colleges may make a verbal offer to a player at any age or year in school. They may make written offers beginning September 1 of the player's junior year. Either kind of offer can include explicit financial details. However, the offer is not binding.
A player may verbally commit to a college at any stage in his career. That commitment has no legal or rule-based meaning. Most colleges will, by custom, stop recruiting a player who has verbally committed, but there is no requirement to do so. A player's verbal commitment may be in response to an offer from the college or just his unilateral decision to attend the college. A college may not comment about a verbal commitment except to verify that the player is recruited. Most colleges make no comment at all.
Players may sign a written agreement (a contract) in mid-November and mid-April through August 1 of his senior year. Usually this is done in the framework of a National Letter of Intent, which carries responsibilities and penalties for both player and college. Colleges may announce such a signing, and most do.
Once a NLI is signed, it is binding on both parties unless both agree to terminate the agreement. Note that in football, the NLI signing date is after the end of the season, so decommits (as opposed to breaking a NLI) are possible after the football player ends his senior season. Also note that it is common for baseball players to choose to attend JC rather than a 4 year college, and the NLI has no force on a player who doesn't play at a D1 or D2. I think this scenario is quite rare in football.
Colleges may make a verbal offer to a player at any age or year in school. They may make written offers beginning September 1 of the player's junior year. Either kind of offer can include explicit financial details. However, the offer is not binding.
A player may verbally commit to a college at any stage in his career. That commitment has no legal or rule-based meaning. Most colleges will, by custom, stop recruiting a player who has verbally committed, but there is no requirement to do so. A player's verbal commitment may be in response to an offer from the college or just his unilateral decision to attend the college. A college may not comment about a verbal commitment except to verify that the player is recruited. Most colleges make no comment at all.
Players may sign a written agreement (a contract) in mid-November and mid-April through August 1 of his senior year. Usually this is done in the framework of a National Letter of Intent, which carries responsibilities and penalties for both player and college. Colleges may announce such a signing, and most do.
Once a NLI is signed, it is binding on both parties unless both agree to terminate the agreement. Note that in football, the NLI signing date is after the end of the season, so decommits (as opposed to breaking a NLI) are possible after the football player ends his senior season. Also note that it is common for baseball players to choose to attend JC rather than a 4 year college, and the NLI has no force on a player who doesn't play at a D1 or D2. I think this scenario is quite rare in football.
Thanks 3FG - Hopefully my comments were not misleading. I was posting more on the MOTIVATION, than the legality of the issue.
Cheers! GED10DaD
IMO make sure the college you commit to is a "fit" regardless of the coaching staff. Can't say this enough. Coaching changes in college baseball are common during a players 4 years and the current NCAA transfer rules have locked up the players ability to change without serious playtime consequences.
Sure, before signing a NLI a player can decommit, but hopefully because the offer or personal situation has drastically changed and not just because a player changes his mind. Just my opinion. But they will be taking the risk that other offers are still out there. If the coaching change happens after you sign the NLI, your choices may be very limited.
Go to school where you want to attend college. If you have the baseball skills for the next level, MLB scouts will find you wherever you are.
Sure, before signing a NLI a player can decommit, but hopefully because the offer or personal situation has drastically changed and not just because a player changes his mind. Just my opinion. But they will be taking the risk that other offers are still out there. If the coaching change happens after you sign the NLI, your choices may be very limited.
Go to school where you want to attend college. If you have the baseball skills for the next level, MLB scouts will find you wherever you are.
I didn't realize that there are really kids "committing" to schools that are not even recruiting them. I feel you have to keep your options open as long as reasonable to really see what's out there. By that I mean at least until the early signing period of your senior year.
Any kid that commits super early is giving all the leverage to the school especially if recruiting of him by other schools stops or is vastly cut back.
A lot of times these will be the guys who are moaning that they got screwed by the school in a couple of years when the school doesn't follow through in a way the kid or his parents had perceived things two or three years before.
Any kid that commits super early is giving all the leverage to the school especially if recruiting of him by other schools stops or is vastly cut back.
A lot of times these will be the guys who are moaning that they got screwed by the school in a couple of years when the school doesn't follow through in a way the kid or his parents had perceived things two or three years before.
quote:I saw one kid who committed and decommitted to 4 different programs
Maybe we are seeing a "generation" that hasn't been taught that one should carfully consider important matters before making a decision. Moreover, once you tell somebody that you accept their offer, thank them and committ to going there, that you NEED to follow through and honor your word.
My thoughts exactly.
It all starts at home. It doesn't help with the bad examples coming from our socalled leaders in Washington. ie not reading or carefully considering important matters before rushing into decisions!
TR,
Despite a few early bumps in the road, this thread has valuable information and perspective. Great idea.
Despite a few early bumps in the road, this thread has valuable information and perspective. Great idea.